2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBerners: Hillary isn't pivoting to tRump just because she's arrogant.
He's a much easier target to hit on issues than Bernie is. What has she found to throw at Bernie? Several made-up scandals perfectly timed to dominate the news cycle on the day following his wins.
She wants to get into it with tRump to distract from the now-bubbling over investigations. She's hoping also to "unite the party" so Bernie supporters will be easier on her about the substance of the investigations. That's the same reason she has apparently assented to dropping DWS as party head. The less upset Sanders' supporters are, the less she thinks they'll press the superdels to look at his consistently substantially better polling against tRump, the mess of her abominable mishandling (to put it nicely) of state secrets and the alleged foundation fraud, all of which are coming front and center now.
This is just my opinion, of course. I'm tired of all of it and not falling for any of it. This ain't over no matter how many posts the Hillary supporters slide our way.
I'm still with Bernie because ethics and the environment and no-wars-for-profit matter. Big money out of government and stop subsidizing huge corporations with our tax dollars.
No falling out till the convention - at least.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)in both parties and eventually flip Congress!!
JudyM
(29,263 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)You know who else throws up the Constitution whenever it suits their political goals? Republicans.
Clinton is pivoting to Trump because he's the enemy. If you and yours weren't so busy declaring that working as part of a team is immoral, then maybe you'd have made headway this primary. But you can't bring yourselves to do that, can you? Much like Sanders himself, working together is not in your DNA.
Pity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)the Constitution and why would you dog some one because it's important to them?
randome
(34,845 posts)I have no idea what it has to do with this primary. The OP is about Trump and Clinton. All of a sudden the Constitution appears out of nowhere. What are we supposed to take away from that? Perhaps the OP could explain?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)We the People. Duh.
randome
(34,845 posts)You simply don't like the outcome so you'll do whatever you can to subvert the electorate. Which amounts to pretty much nothing but I guess I can't stop you guys from making fools of yourselves.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Which post did I do that in?
randome
(34,845 posts)Both sides today spend more time trash-talking the opposing candidate than they do about the issues. It's a pity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
JudyM
(29,263 posts)fundamental principles on which our country was founded, and the importance of our freedom from tyranny.
One person one vote. Corporations are not persons who can donate unlimited sums of money to elect politicians to then subsidize and legislate for their interests. Oaths to uphold the Constitution and work for the benefit of our country should not be subverted to an individual's ambition for personal gain. Etc.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)The primaries aren't over no matter what you wish to be true. They are not over. Then there is a convention. You know, according to your candidate, anything could happen between now and then. I won't repeat the rest. Pretty tasteless.
randome
(34,845 posts)Doesn't mean I consider it to be a real-world possibility. The only thing I'm 'wishing' for is for all the trash-talking to end. I'm looking forward to that.
Clinton isn't 'my' candidate. I've said many times I'd prefer someone from a newer generation. But since she's our obvious nominee, the best thing any of us can do is to work together to push her further to the left. Anything else is just giving up because there is nothing to be gained by trash-talking her.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Might not matter to you byt it matter to others. At this point I'll just be repeating myself. Have a good night and thank you for the discussion.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)I won't lose any sleep thinking of that as a real-world possibility. Best to plan with the best information we have now, which is that Clinton is very likely our next President. Anything less is just shouting at the wind.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Autumn
(45,120 posts)when all you democrats have chosen so far is delegates.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I had you on ignore so long, I didn't realize this is what your posts are up to these days. Good to know.
randome
(34,845 posts)Are we to assume that only Sanders believes in the 'true' Constitution? What would that mean? Perhaps you or the OP could enlighten us.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
merrily
(45,251 posts)since that is something you actually posted yourself, instead of suggesting that I enlighten you about someone else's post.
Nice deflection attempt, though.
randome
(34,845 posts)"We want to discriminate against LGBT persons because...the Constitution!"
"We want to force women to have unwanted children because...the Constitution!"
I invited the OP to explain what the Constitution has to do with this but so far no response. I suppose we are to assume that Sanders is the better candidate because...the Constitution!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
pangaia
(24,324 posts)tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Millions believe Trump isn't the only unqualified candidate as reflected in current polls. Nationally, Sen Sanders' numbers go up while Sec Clinton's stay the same or decrease. I'm not going to mention favorable vs unfavorable ratings of each candidate because that would be piling on.
randome
(34,845 posts)I'm not particularly one of them but I believe in Democracy and that's clearly what the voters want. So why do some of you invest so much time -with nothing to show for it- in trying to tear down the woman who's likely our next President?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)I see polls with Trump and Clinton in virtual ties while Sanders beats Trump by double digits.
As for nothing to show for it, again, we see different things happening. I see the Clinton campaign softening their rhetoric (As opposed to her supporters who are just as enthusiastic for their candidate as we are ours) and giving Sen Sanders some involvement in the convention. To me, these are good signs. Not really our goal but for me, a small victory.
So, leading the GOP nominee while the probable (for now) Dem nominee ties. Convention appointments given to Sen Sanders to fill. Both good things and we the primary isn't even over with! I know you wish it was but it's not.
Anyway, this is just the beginning. This isn't just about electing Sen Sanders. That was a long shot and to get as close as we gotten is amazing. This about changing the whole political culture especially within the Democratic Party if possible, but also in a national way. 2018, 2020, 2022 and on and on and on. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
randome
(34,845 posts)But polls are meaningless before the nominations. Even the pollsters say that. Once we have a nominee from both parties, the polls tend to be more accurate and I would expect more voters lining up behind Clinton than Trump.
Sanders has been a great opponent. He has great ideas. I can't say I have much respect for the worst of his trash-talking supporters. Nor do I endorse the same behavior from Clinton supporters. I'll be glad when the infighting comes to an end.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)They are an indicator, at the least, of trends. There is a clear trend of Sec Clinton down or stagnant while Trump rises, head to head. Same polls, the trend is no trend. Sen Sanders wins in double digits over Trump, head to head. That poll has been consistent for months. Having said that, I take everything with a grain or hundred of salt. Nothing is settled at this point.
It will be nice when this is settled, one way or the other. 2018 will be here so quick and there's so much to do before then.
Trenzalore
(2,331 posts)People act like the Clintons are establishment out of thin air. Most of those people that are in her corner as far as super delegates goes has a personal story of when the Clintons has helped them politically. That involves actual work from years of being involved in the party.
You honestly expect those people to overrun a primary result based on a few polls in May for a candidate who wouldn't even call himself a democrat till a year ago only so he could run for the party nomination?
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)will hold the distinction of being the only candidate who received donations from her opponent?
She could make Guiness or Ripleys!
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)I don't expect any of that. I expect the politicians and the entire flock of parasites that attach themselves to politicians (lobbyists, "advisors", Titans Of Industry) that fear they're Golden Goose is under attack and threatened by Sen Sanders to do everything in their considerable power to stop him. If that means nominating Sec Clinton specifically to block Sen Sanders from running in the GE, so be it. To them, Trump's not so bad when compared to that crazy commie! Hell, they already go the same Charitable Events!
No. The current crop of politicos and super delegates that fear Sen Sanders because he'll cut off the Corporate spigots will happily elect Sec Clinton and happily lavish, er, lobby President elect Trump in order to obtain favorable treatment just as they would have done under President elect Clinton.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)...they will slip in Joe Biden to maintain status quo.