Anyone here who directly benefited from or was the child of a middle class person during the 50s-70s

[AZ Progressive]

and is bashing Bernie and his economic progressive platform is basically spitting on the grave of FDR, who made your middle class lifestyle possible.

FDR had the GI bill passed, which made homeownership and college available to so many Americans. Combined with the legal rights FDR gave that allowed labor unions to flourish, as well as FDR's exceptional leadership that helped America win WWII, FDR's policies and actions directly led to the great postwar boom and creation of the great American middle class because the resulting higher wages heavily stimulated the economy during that time period, leading to the creation of more and more and better paying jobs.

And FDR was an economic progressive:

Next time you bash Bernie and his economic progressivism, know that you are spitting on FDR's grave.

[MgtPA]

1. Whenever I'm asked why I support Bernie Sanders, my answer is " 'cause FDR isn't running"

[brush]

2. New Deal program exclusions no one ever mentions.

Black people.

[AZ Progressive]

3. Truman and LBJ fought for civil rights

and both were economic progressives.

[brush]

4. No doubt, but we were talking about FDR's New Deal programs.

[roguevalley]

86. then check into eleanor

[brush]

87. Eleanor was very cool, FDR felt he had to curry favor with the Dixiecrats though

LBJ didn't. That's quite a difference.

[Ed Suspicious]

106. You cats are all about incrementalism. FDR started the ball rolling.

[brush]

109. See post 103 in this thread.

[snowy owl]

130. You're conflating two different issues. Social vs. economic.

keep the argument on topic. Blacks and Native Americans and even Catholics(religions) were looked upon in different ways. Yes, the fifties were a much better time all things being equal. Frankly, there are some black authors who will argue it was better time even for blacks in that their communities were tighter. I wouldn't be the one to argue that but others do.

You can't make a serious argument if you don't stay on topic. And FDR wasn't correct his first term either. He evolved and finally did create an economic policy that gave us a great middle class.

Truman? He was the first President the business class gave us and his policies started minimally a turn around. Read up on Henry Wallace.

[brush]

139. Maybe some have the privilege of looking at them seperately . . .

AAs rarely do because we are most often hit with both barrels firing.

[onenote]

145. if things were so great in the 50s, why did we need the Great Society programs

in the 60s.
Are you saying Medicare, Medicaid, the War on Poverty, Head Start didn't make things better?

[snowy owl]

132. Truman less so on economics. See Henry Wallace. Also Lewis Powell-below

But you are right. All things economic, fifties were a better time. Justice Lewis Powell worked to change that: (from wiki)

Powell Memorandum

On August 23, 1971, prior to accepting President Nixon's nomination to the Supreme Court, Powell sent the "Confidential Memorandum" titled "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System" to a friend at the US Chamber of Commerce.[13] It was based in part on his experiences as a corporate lawyer and as a representative for the tobacco industry with the Virginia legislature. The memo called for corporate America to become more aggressive in molding politics and law in the US and may have sparked the formation of several influential right-wing think tanks and lobbying organizations, such as The Heritage Foundation and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), as well as inspiring the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active.[14][15] Marxist academic David Harvey traces the rise of neoliberalism in the US to this memo.[16][17]

Powell argued, "The most disquieting voices joining the chorus of criticism came from perfectly respectable elements of society: from the college campus, the pulpit, the media, the intellectual and literary journals, the arts and sciences, and from politicians." In the memorandum, Powell advocated "constant surveillance" of textbook and television content, as well as a purge of left-wing elements. He named consumer advocate Ralph Nader as the chief antagonist of American business.[18]

[politicaljunkie41910]

22. Perhaps it's because blacks always end up at the back of the line

when it comes to those New Deal programs you speak of.

[brush]

40. Yeah, that's why I mentioned it. There is racism on the left too, where there shouldn't be.

We've seen it here on DU with the "Slave mentality" and "Stockholm Syndrome" posts, and going back even further, the "Used car salesman piece of shit" post, among others.

[Armstead]

89. Lemme get this straight....

Because there was worse racial discrimination in the past, we should not do anything that will benefit people today....and we should reject all good things that were accomplished in the past.

So let's toss out restrictions on expoloitation of child labor laws, because the country was even more racist back when they were passed.

[brush]

90. What the hell does that have to do with noting racism on the left . . .

expressed very recently right here on DU?

[Armstead]

92. You said the Liberal advances of FDR suck because they were racist

I certainly don't disagree it was wrong to make those exclusions at the time, but why use that to tar the basic progressive achievements of things like SS, which were subsequently expanded.

[brush]

95. It's always that way — they were great programs but we had to sacrifice blacks

Maybe they will included later.

Why not just acknowledge the fact that that was fucked up?

And btw LBJ didn't feel he had to do that, why not FDR?

[Armstead]

99. It sucked....But that was a product of the times

I seriously doubt that if there were actuslly a similar progressive breakthrough today, like universal expansion of Medicare that AAs would be written out. so why bring up old dirt to marginalize current efforts at pushing for similar progress today?

[brush]

103. No one was trying to marginalize anything happening today.

How do you get that out of just noting for the record, that the New Deal was not the great, flawless ideal to put on a pedestal of perfect progressivism for us to try to emulate.

This mindset that excludes blacks also happens on the right when the 50s are spoken of as the ideal of American prosperity that they want to return to — a white male could work a blue collar job and support a stay-at-home wife with kids, and afford a middle class lifestyle.

The fact that blacks were still riding in the back of buses and being lynched then seems to be a blind spot when they talk of wanting their country back.

To us, that kind of talk means they not only want their country back, they want us back in the back of the bus.

Sorry for the rant but that kind of exclusionary mindset will always be a sore point with me.

[Armstead]

104. Well I think the vast majority of.....

Progressives of the Sanders variety care a lot about racial justice.

I get really upset that it has been inserted into the prinary as a divisive wedge.

I will acknowledge that all whites have our racisl obtusness -- but that is not likited to supporters ofvSanders. There is just as much if that among white Clinton supporters.

It's a necessary conversation -- but not in the context if a Democratic primary where bith candidates have the same basic values in that sense. It's impossible to unpack the marketing from the actual problem.

[brush]

107. Good thoughtful post. Thanks.

[Ed Suspicious]

110. We like democracy and credit the Athenians for bringing it to us in spite of the fact that only

around 10% of the people could participate because, you know, women and slaves.


Times change, but the spirit of the ideal remains.

[brush]

33. Give it a rest. I was correcting, for the record, that AAs were excluded from New Deal programs

And as far as progressive bona fides, I'll paraphrase Larry Holmes — "you can't carry my jock strap".

IMO Sanders is just not the one — too much damaging Marxist/Trotkyite baggage. A socialist is never going to win the presidency of the United States. If you knew as much as you pretend to, you'd know that.

Just face it. He's not Warren. He can't even win the Dem nomination.

[brush]

51. Hey, I'm not in any intellectual contest with you.

I told you the other night that I'm not trying to be a "black intellectual" so stop trying to compete with me.

I do know though that people over 45 are the heaviest voters and socialism is an anathema to most of them, whether it's the 50s, 60s or the 2010s.

[brush]

57. I don't disagree with that. Sanders is just not the one. He can't beat Hillary.

[brush]

63. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

[brush]

69. Oh stop. You're no dummy. You know it's over. The math, remember?

[2banon]

146. "Neoliberalism actively seeks the dismantling of the New Deal"

Well Said TM99.

These nine words sums up exactly what the Neoliberals objective are, has been for decades and aims to complete with the HRC at the helm.

[vintx]

165. And that is why most on DU *used to* despise neoliberalism, new democrats, triangulation, etc.

What the fuck happened to this place

[Armstead]

91. Please define his Marxist Trotskyite baggage

I don't mean go back to when he was 25 years old.

But what part of his present agenda would you describe as Marxist and Trotskyite?

Universal health care lije most of the rest if the world has -- inckuding uber capitalist ones? Expanding public education to meet modern requirements? You object to rolling back the regressive tax structure?

[brush]

97. Google it. It's naive to think repugs won't go back 25 years to include that baggage . . .

in their ads, if he gets the nomination?

[Armstead]

100. Thats already baked in

The people who will be put off by that already think Obama is an Islamic Militant and Clinton is a commie lesbian.

[brush]

101. Islamic militant I've heard. Commie lesbian is new to me. Funny in it's way

Not accurate though. Still funny.

[Armstead]

102. It doesn't make it into the more genteel public portions of the RW

Not even Hannity would go there....but it is floating around in the wingnutosphere

[brush]

105. Commie lesbian sounds like the biggest, perverted oxymoron going in commie land.

Is anything other than straight, missionary position sex even allowed to be thought of, much less practiced?

[Armstead]

108. I would guess that behind closed doors anything goes in commie land

[brush]

111. Oh yeah, that's right. We're talking about repugs, with their "wide stances" . . .

in public mens' room stalls and all.

[2banon]

147. huh? did you forget to use the "sarcasm" thingy?

Using the term "Commie" is repeating 1950's era Red Baiting vernacular, and representative of a certain element of paranoia and ignorance (among other things) of the times, just as an fyi.

I never read the Communist Manifesto, but I'd be rather surprised to learn if there were edicts banning Lesbians. At least it's not something I would assume off the cuff.

If there is any such edict contained in the Manifesto, I think it would be safe to say, that it was ignored.

But then, you were just kidding right?

[brush]

159. I think you responded to the wrong person.

Last edited Sat May 28, 2016, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

My post was in response to another post that first used the term "commie lesbian" and yes, it was tongue-in-cheek and the sarcasm gif could have been used.

But if you read the posts again you should clearly see that they were in jest and not doing any red-baiting.

[2banon]

161. Thank you for the clairification

sometimes it's tricky for me to view connecting threads accurately..

my apologies.

[Silver_Witch]

117. Gosh when I was a little girl the same was said about a Catholic!

Americans will never elect one of "them"

Look how far we have come!! And how much further we will go!!!

I grew up poor and hungry in the middle of a upper middle class neighborhood. Both my parents worked when few mothers worked outside the house. Our daycare provider was my sister who was one year older than me. We watched ourselves from the time we were 5! Now there are after care programs! I know I am an old enough to have ridden a dinosaur to school and from my perspective the country is getting better slowly surely - better none the less!

We will survive this election! Even if the worst happens. We are tough and love will win!

[FlaGranny]

162. Everyone has benefitted

from FDRs years as president, unfortunately not everyone at the same time. Just imagine what life would be like now if there had been no FDR.

[brush]

169. The programs were good, not the great, flawless ideal to put on a pedestal of perfect . . .

progressivism because they excluded AAs. Eventually getting the benefits years later . . . not ideal.

I'm speaking from an African American perspective so I hope you get where I'm coming from.

[FlaGranny]

170. Of course, you're right

but without those programs of FDR? Then Johnson? Without the two of them where would we be today? This backward country would be far more backward than it is.

[brush]

171. Very true

What still disturbs me is that LBJ was willing to defy the dixiecrats to get the civil rights legislation and Great Society programs passed but FDR, who I admire nonetheless, would not stand up against the dixiecrats.

I know the times were different but stiil, yet FDR stood up against the rich industrialists who tried to stage a coup against him with their American Liberty League. He threaten to expose their sedition and/or treason if they opposed his New Deal legislation.

The dichotomy of his handling of these situations is puzzling.

[FlaGranny]

172. There were disturbing qualities

to both of them but I believe their social accomplishments stand on their own. It is always the case that imperfect people can accomplish great things.

[Baobab]

160. Anybody who is able to buy it can get it. Thats the Democratic party today, race matters little

if you have the dough.

[PufPuf23]

38. There is no excuse to exclude blacks in a 21st century update of the

New Deal.

Why would you think that bit of history has any bearing to now?

The USA is a more egalitarian society regards to civil rights comparing 2016 to the 1930s-40s but there are obviously still favored social demographics. and much room for progress.

The USA is less egalitarian in 2016 than the 1930s-40s regards economic justice in general because of wealth and income being sucked into the top quartile with even greater concentration at the very top. The former predominantly American white working and middle classes of the 1950s and 60s has not shared relative gains but rather dropped in proportion and relative affluence while minorities and women have moved towards parity to the American white working and middle classes in education, opportunity, and pay.

Any legislation and program championed by Sanders or a social democrat in general will be inclusive and egalitarian.

[eridani]

112. You can't expand a program to include jobs commonly done by black people unless it exists--

--in the first place. Even back then they couldn't have gotten by with naming black people as ineligible directly, so the used the indirect method of excluding farm and domestic labor.

[Scootaloo]

152. It's not particularly relevant when talking about Bernie Sanders in 2016

Unless you would like to back up your insinuation that his plans exclude black people? Or anyone else for that matter?

We're all ears. Well. Eyes I suppose.

[brush]

158. WTH are you talking about? No one is insinuating anything. Try re-reading the post . . .

and/or the other responses.

It clearly says that noting many New Deal programs excluded AAs was for the record. There was no insinuation of anything relating to today to back up, so stop trying to stir up sh_t.

[Scootaloo]

166. Don't try to bullshit me, Brush.

I'm completely aware of the game you're playing, 'cause you've been playing it since you joined DU. Don't try to back out just 'cause you get called on your garbage.

[brush]

168. And what game is that? I'm a Clinton supporter. Apparently you support Sanders.

Now what garbage are you supposedly calling me on.

[peggysue2]

5. Bernie Sanders

Is no FDR. Who btw, was not a socialist but a capitalist who saved capitalism from itself. FDR was considered a traitor to his class (as in upper class) for his efforts.

Pul-e-e-se, stop making stupid comparisons. Bernie Sanders may be many things. But he is no FDR. Read your damn history.

[AZ Progressive]

6. Bernie is not a socialist

I don't think any expert believes that Bernie is truly a socialist. Bernie doesn't go around emphasizing "socialism", that's something that the media wanted to label him early on and he just refused to deny.

[TwilightZone]

7. The label was self-chosen.

He has personally identified as a socialist for a long, long time. If you want to blame someone for the label, you should probably start with the guy who first applied it.

The funny thing is that you're right - he's not a socialist, certainly not in the European sense. On the European scale, he's a centrist and a militarist.

[w4rma]

9. The self-chosen label is "Democratic-socialist", not socialist. (nt)

[TwilightZone]

11. You should learn something about your candidate.

Here, let him tell you:

"Do they think I’m afraid of the word? I’m not afraid of the word," he said in an interview with The Nation published in July. "When I ran for the Senate the first time, I ran against the wealthiest guy in the state of Vermont. He spent a lot on advertising — very ugly stuff. He kept attacking me as a liberal. He didn’t use the word ‘socialist’ at all, because everybody in the state knows that I am that."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/

He's been identifying as a socialist for decades. I'm honestly amazed at how few of you seem to have a clue that's the case. Are you certain that you're really a Sanders supporter?

Everybody in Vermont knew. Everybody who knew anything about him prior to his announcement for president knew. I've been following Bernie Sanders - and supporting him, frankly - for decades. It's literally the first thing anyone ever learned about the guy.

After supporting him for months or, perhaps, a year or more, you still had no idea?

[AZ Progressive]

14. Tell that to socialist organizations in America

And they will claim that Bernie is no socialist. Maybe Bernie was trying to be edgy, maybe Bernie has changed a bit. But his core economic message hasn't, which is pretty similar to social democracy and FDR and Theodore Roosevelt's messages during the time.

[TwilightZone]

19. Somebody better tell Bernie Sanders.

He's been calling himself one for decades.

[AZ Progressive]

21. I guess someone can claim they are a Christian even if they don't believe in Jesus...

[TwilightZone]

26. Oh, Sanders believes in socialism.

He just doesn't really practice it.

A Christian/Jesus reference was an interesting choice in a thread about Sanders, btw.

Irony, perhaps, isn't dead after all.

[AZ Progressive]

36. Reminds me of Democrats here being able to be Democrats even though their policy views...

would be in line with Moderate Republicans of the 80s.

[TwilightZone]

65. It's not the 80s anymore.

And there are plenty of "Democrats" and "Progressives" here that think Fox News, Breitbart, the Blaze, etc., are legitimate sources.

I'd take the moderate Republicans of the 80s over that, frankly.

Besides, anyone can be a Democrat. Even a democratic socialist who says he's a socialist. Or something.

[AZ Progressive]

66. And the 80s was such a great decade for Americans...

as this MTV documentary made in 1989 shows...

[ms liberty]

156. Seriously?

Are you really trying to tell us the 80's were awesome, and using an MTV documentary as a reference? Some of us were not just alive, but adults through the 80's, so you might want to rethink that. The 80's began with a horror - the murder of John Lennon - and it was kinda downhill from there. Not a steep down grade, but a slow, inexorable decline.
Please tell me you just forgot the sarcasm smilie!

[Hydra]

64. Bernie may be no Socialist(and he's not), but he's doing a great service for Socialism

By being the guy out there not afraid of the label. He's making it possible for actual Socialists to move in again where we belong.

He rocks on so many levels- a Civil Rights advocate, an advocate for the poor and against war, freedom of speech, freedom of ideas...he's tearing down the wall that has been built for decades which claims: "We cannot move forward- we can't afford it!"

[brush]

46. He only changed it to Democratic socialist when he joined the party to run for president

Before that he was a self-avowed scocialist

[Dawgs]

75. That is utter bullshit.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/04/24/only_17_plenty_of_senators_as_far_left_as_bernie_sanders_96158.html

[brush]

78. I've listened to Thom Hartman's radio show for years.

Before he joined the race Sanders was featured on there regularly and I've heard him call himself a socialist many times.

You thing people are making that up?

No.

[timmymoff]

96. Self avowed sounds more like what the pundits defined him.

I'd say he kept it simple because he knows we truly are a nation of dumbasses regarding politics and world events.

[jwirr]

44. Those capitalists called him a socialist and worse because

he created a mixed economy which is exactly what Democratic Socialism is. What you see in EU today came directly from the Marshall Plan and is now called Democratic Socialism. I not only read this history I lived it.

The issues Bernie speaks about are exactly the issues that FDR was working on. With the exception of Climate Change.

My first historical memory was setting with my mother listening to the radio telling us about FDR's funeral.

For many of us older citizens Bernie is a FDR Democrat something the Hillary cannot even begin to pretend to be.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

155. FDR took the New Deal concepts from Norman Thomas in 1932.

Norman Thomas was the Socialist Party candidate for President several times.

I was told by my dad that Roosevelt and Hoover had basically identical platforms. After FDR got elected, he took Norman Thomas' platform and used it for the New Deal. Even Thom Hartmann and Jim Hightower had a discussion the other night about Bernie being a New Deal Democrat who would have been mainstream in the 1900s and 1920s, and they never mentioned Norman Thomas.

[jwirr]

163. That is correct. FDR ran the first time as conservative Democrat.

It did not take him long to find some very practical ideas that would actually help the people.

I think it is very hard to keyhole FDR or even HST. They were two practical men who were not worried about ideology or what people called them. It is why so many of us love them to this day. And I am not saying that they were perfect I am saying they cared.

[Recursion]

10. And people still wonder why this campaign is a hard sell for black voters

At least you're putting it right out there; I applaud that.

[AZ Progressive]

12. I'm talking to the white Hillary supporters here

And no, I'm not white and I didn't benefit directly from FDR. Please, what has Hillary done for black people that outweighs things like the race baiting that the Clintons did during the 90s?

[Recursion]

16. Ask a Clinton supporter; I have no idea

I will say she isn't dog-whistling about the 1950s economy, at least.

[uponit7771]

18. During the Clinton admin blacks... awe fuck it, yaw've heard this a million times and still don't..

... give a dam

[uponit7771]

13. +1

[Arazi]

17. Uhm, I don't think AZ is white eom

[Recursion]

20. And? (nt)

[Arazi]

24. Seemed like you were painting AZ as tone deaf

FDR's programs weren't perfect. Does AZ have to put in that qualifier every time FDR'S programs are praised? Especially in light of AZ being a POC?

[Recursion]

25. AZ doesn't have to do anything; I thought this was a pretty clear example

of, again, why this campaign is doing much better with white voters than with nonwhite voters, in general.

[Arazi]

32. Well AZ, a POC, obviously didn't see it that way. POC are not monolithic eom

[Recursion]

35. Nor is he/she required to; people aren't all alike

I just mean, if I were trying to pitch a campaign to black voters in general, "We want to restore the economy of the 1950s" is not the line I would want to use.

[uponit7771]

15. You do understand FDR purposefully set out to exclude black folks from these benefits right?

... I mean, some folk need a black friend... one they can REALLY talk to about these issues not just someone on a message forum

[AZ Progressive]

28. And yet FDR issued an executive order creating the FEPC

Which banned racial discrimination in any defense contractor receiving federal contracts, which was a big deal during WWII...

[CorkySt.Clair]

39. You're leaving out some of FDR's legacy

Yeah, I remember my first beer too, kid.

But before you Saint him remember that he put thousands of AMERICANS into cages all because of the way their eyes were shaped.

The New Deal doesn't earn him a pass on internment camps.

[wildeyed]

60. He didn't support an anti-lynching bill because he wanted the support

of the racist Dixiecrats so he could pass his New Deal. And he nominated an ex-KKK member to the Supreme Court.

But yeah, let's get all morose and nostalgic over the greatness of the man and moan about how REAL Democrats should ALL want to travel back to that time

He was a great man, but no way in HELL I would go back to that.

[CorkySt.Clair]

62. Agreed.

I had forgotten about the lynching stuff myself.

[brush]

67. That makes LBJ's civil rights accomplishments even more impressive, given that . . .

he was willing to defy the dixiecrats to get the civil rights and Great Society legislation passed.

Greater than FDR?

It's something to ponder as LBJ didn't throw AAs under the bus, or Japanese Americans into internment camps.

[wildeyed]

74. LBJ would be widely remembered as a GREAT man,

but he was on the wrong side of history with the Vietnam War. FDR was also a hawk, but nobody questions the rightness of WW2, so he gets a pass on that. I believe that the conflict with Germany was unavoidable, and we should have gone there earlier, like FDR wanted. But the Japanese conflict might have been avoided with better oversight the diplomatic program. Can you IMAGINE how many people would be alive today if we had managed to stay out of the fight with Japan? And how much shorter the war would have been?

Some of LBJs phone calls with MLK were recorded and are in the public domain. Those are FASCINATING to listen to. LBJ was so driven by his ego, you can hear it in his tone. Voting Rights was, to him, a monument to his magnificent political skills as much as a moral choice. He saw the writing on the wall, did the political math and decided that he was going to get it passed. And he did. Amazing man.

[brush]

79. Agreed. Vietnam tarnished his accomplishments somewhat . . .

but the civil rights bills and social programs were so significant he is still up there in the upper echelon of presidents, IMO.

Have you read any volume of Robert Caro's biographies on him?

Fascinating page turners all.

[wildeyed]

81. No, but I will put it on my list.

I learned much about that time from the three volume set bt Taylor Branch called America in the King Years. It focused on King, but was wide-ranging. Much about LBJ, Malcolm X, the Kennedys, lesser known civil rights heroes, and political operatives.

But LBJ is so fascinating that I should invest some time in reading something that just focuses on him. Off topic, but I have also decided that I need to bite the bullet and read a Reagan biography, just to fight the confirmation bias. I read and read about King, FDR and other liberal icons, and ignore the conservatives. Probably leads to a warped understanding of what really went on.

Also need to get up on the Revolution. And the Gullah War. So much to read, so little time......

[brush]

85. I'll put the Branch volumes on my list. Thanks for that info.

And the Gullah wars, I definitely will be researching more of that material.

[AZ Progressive]

34. BTW, why do Hillary supporters act like only white people would benefit from economic progressivism?

You really think that blacks and hispanics are not suffering economically these days? Or is it that you want white people to suffer economically as well?

[Recursion]

37. Because that's been what's invariably happened in the past

Populist politicians have always preached universal progressivism and then gotten burned by their white supporters when they start extending those benefits to people of color. Hell, the 1990s were a better decade for black workers than the 1970s, by far, and white people can't shut up about how "bad" the 1990s were now.

[uponit7771]

42. +1

[AZ Progressive]

47. Economic Progressivism is not just benefits, its also about fighting against big corporations

I don't want to worry about eating the roundup carcinogen in my food because Monsanto has a monopoly on corn (which is used to feed cows, pigs, and chicken that ends up on my plate.)

I don't want to worry about being able to pay for a drug because a big pharma corporation decided to price a drug at several hundred dollars a bottle, especially a generic that used to cost a dollar or less a pill (and they bought out the only other companies that were making that generic drug.)

I don't want to worry about the air I breathe because the oil industry helped a trade deal to be passed that gave it the power to sue my state government and remove its environmental laws because they were threatening the profits of the oil industry.

and on, and on, and on...

[eridani]

114. Except for the ones who were caught up in Clinton's huge expansion of the prison population n/t

[uponit7771]

142. We have Sanders to think for that

[eridani]

144. He called black youth superpredators?

Or was the problem attachment of the Violence Against Women Act to an omnibus crime bill?

[uponit7771]

148. no he didn't and only stupid ass'd, small farm animal loving racist think the term is exclusives to

... blacks

[eridani]

149. Superpredators is just as obvious as Willie Horton.

Had Sanders voted against VAWA because it was attached to the crime omnibus, then you's just call him a sexist.

[uponit7771]

150. People who think the term is exclusives to blacks fucks road kill on hot days when no one is looking

[eridani]

154. It sure the hell was in the case of a crime bill. Black people aren't the only people who commit--

--crimes, but "crime in the streets" has been code for "black" ever since Nixon. Clinton knows it very well, and she has apologized to Black Lives Matter about it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/25/clinton-heckled-by-black-lives-matter-activist/

Ashley Williams, a 23-year-old activist from Charlotte, interrupted Clinton during a private fundraiser in Charleston on Wednesday night. Williams stood and demanded an apology from Clinton for the high incarceration rate for black Americans, and confronted her with the words of a speech Clinton delivered 20 years ago voicing support for the now-debunked theory of "super-predators."

"They are often the kinds of kids that are called 'super-predators,' " Clinton said in 1996, at the height of anxiety during her husband's administration about high rates of crime and violence. "No conscience, no empathy, we can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel."

[forjusticethunders]

134. Let's be fair, FDR made that compromise because if he doesn't then the Dixiecrats torpedo the entire

New Deal. Black people at the time supported him DESPITE these awful compromises.

The problem is when historically illiterate Berniestans bash Hillary for making much milder compromises.

In fact, Hillary is much, much closer to FDR than Bernie is - chew on that.

[DookDook]

23. I support Bernie Sanders because I benefited from they system and I don't want to pull the ladder up

behind me.

I always thought we were supposed to be trying to make the world better for the generation that comes after us.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

27. Good point. But the lifestyle they inherited got socked into the Republican con called 401Ks. Now

the beneficiaries of FDR Democrats are 70-something "New Democrat" retirees making nice with fiscally conservative pols.

[Hoyt]

29. Exactly what of FDR's greatest policies is Clinton threatening?

[tirebiter]

30. FDR supported Free Trade and got it passed, too.

That's part of his legacy ending the Depression.

[AZ Progressive]

31. You think FDR would have supported shipping manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China?

When we talk about free trade, we are talking about attacking the working class by removing their jobs and ability to bargain for livable wages. Someone should be able to make money and have a decent lifestyle even if they aren't able to get a bachelors or masters degree.

[Doctor_J]

41. And Truman's and JFK and LBJ

Basically everything gained in the 20th century was the initiative of the will power of democratic presidents.

[AZ Progressive]

48. Economically progressive Democratic presidents

The TRUE Democrats, IMO.

[brush]

138. Correctomondo! And once the repugs get in they institute policies that favor . . .

their 1% clients and the economy goes all to hell. It's almost like clock work — W Bush (great recession), Papa Bush (it's the economy, stupid), Reagan (Michael Milken and the disastrous stock market crash in the 80s, catchup listed as a vegetable), Ford (not in long enough to fuck up too much), Nixon (early 70s recession), Eisenhower (Ike even presided over a recession in the late 50s following the halcyon days earlier in the decade that all the repugs keep wanting to take the country back to), Hoover (do I even need to say anything).

It's a historic pattern, the repugs get in and screw everything up except for the rich, then the Dems get in and clean up their mess.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

45. My middle class lifestyle because my father got a Masters degree and worked a lot of 12 hour days

Not interested in Bernie's class war. Thanks anyway.

By the way, I've been to FDR's gravesite and not once did I spit.

[liberal_at_heart]

55. My father worked a lot of 12 hour days as well as a construction worker.

We lived in a mobile home, often didn't have enough money to pay the electric bill, and slept in the living room because the only heat we had was a natural gas heater in the living room. Don't give me we worked hard to get where we are crap. My father worked harder than any other person I have ever met in my life. The Democratic party used to be the party that had compassion for poor people, and who stood up for working class people. Nice to know the Democratic party no longer gives a shit about poor people or working class people.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

58. It's not crap if it's true. My dad worked hard, got educated, and did well

On the other hand, my maternal grandfather had anger management issues, a gambling issue, and didn't hold down the same job for more than 5 years at a time. It's a miracle my mom got out of that without being completely screwed up.

My point is my dad doesn't owe FDR a living. Your mileage may vary.

[liberal_at_heart]

61. It sounds like you are implying that anyone who isn't successful must be because they wouldn't work

for it. Sounds like Republican talking points to me.

[Arazi]

73. +10000 eom

[Algernon Moncrieff]

88. What? Democrats can't work hard and do well?

OP said middle class kids in the 70s are spitting on FDRs grave if they don't support Sanders. FDR was a great President, but not responsible for me being a middle class kid.

[kcr]

98. Well, someone forgot to tell us it's all about you.

Please, forgive us.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

127. It's about the OP, which is untrue and insulting

[pinebox]

116. No many can't

Because during the time frame which is referenced here and during the era of Ike, you had a 1 worker household.
And before you even go there with "women were expected to stay home" crap, it's more of the fact that it could actually BE DONE because people were paid living wages. You could work at the local ACE hardware store and support a damn family. Try doing that today. Try working at Walmart and doing it. You can't.

This is what Bernie is fighting for. US.

Wages in this country have been stagnant for decades & because of that, people have been pushed to the brink. It's sad.....

[Downwinder]

52. Don't forget L.B.J. who Hillary campaigned against.

He expanded Social Security and created Medicare plus a host of other programs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Society

[seabeyond]

53. I was thinking about our middle class life way back then. No going out to eat but rarely,

never fast food, watched cost of groceries. Minimal amount of things. Lucky to get out of town on vacation 3 or 4 times during the 18 yrs.

We have it better now, factually and anecdotal.

[doc03]

54. I was raised in middle class home in the in the 50s and 60s. What was called middle class

in those days would be poverty today. Until I was in the 6th grade we lived in an old shack with coal heat. I remember when I was very young we didn't even have a water heater my mom would add hot water from the stove to our bath to warm the water. There was no air conditioning. Our car was loaded meaning we had an AM radio and a heater. I remember listening to Gunsmoke, Jack Benny and other shows on the radio. In the middle 50s we got a black and white TV, one local station came in fairly good and we could get a couple more from Pittsburgh that looked like there was a snow storm. In 1960 we moved into a new house, there was five in the family and
the house had 3 bedrooms one bath with a total of 1200 square feet. Now 2016 families are smaller on average but homes are well over 2000 square on average. They have whole house heating and cooling systems, every bedroom has its own bath. To be middle class today you can't drive a car with an AM radio and a heater. Now you have an SUV with, power steering, cruise, air, heated seats, heated steering wheel, rear camera, and bumper hitch to pull your boat and your RV. Then of course if you are middle class the man of the family much of the time has to have a $30000 Harley in the garage. So comparing the middle class of today to the 50s and 60s is like apples and oranges.

[litlbilly]

70. I sure did. Early 60s hospital as a kid, in todays dollars, about 250k, back then, 0.

[postatomic]

71. I'm working with a team that wants to re-animate FDR

So we can bring him back and have him look Bernie in the eyes; "Dude (yea, FDR said 'dude' quite often), stop throwing around my good name to promote your silly agenda." We'll then take him for Ice Cream and put him back in the grave. Said grave that YOU are spitting on every time you draw this bizarre comparison.

[AZ Progressive]

76. You really think FDR would be against Bernie?

You don't know anything about FDR then. Or are you going to argue that FDR was just pretending to be an economic progressive?

[postatomic]

80. I know quite a bit about FDR

And yes, I truly believe that if we could construct a Time/Space Machine FDR would tell Bernie he should shut the fuck up.

FDR was a Democrat. He was concerned about holding this country together. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[wildeyed]

82. FDR reminds me more of Bill Clinton than Bernie Sanders.

First, FDR and Clinton both won their big elections. But also the ego, creativity, endless policy tinkering and the willingness to compromise on some values when he felt it served the greater good.

[postatomic]

83. Very good analogy

Kudos!!!

[eridani]

113. FDR got much more than 50% of the vote n/t

[TheSarcastinator]

119. FDR lied about a blowjob from an intern in the Oval Office and Visited Orgy Island?

Huh, who knew.

[wildeyed]

122. FDR lied about his sex life.

His long term affairs are well documented. Press didn't cover that stuff back then, so who knows what he did.

Since when are liberals so uptight about grown-up, consensual sexual acts?

[AZ Progressive]

128. In other words, FDR was just pretending to be an economic progressive?

Well then Bernie is even better than FDR...

[wildeyed]

143. Except the part where he didn't win the nomination.

History doesn't judge the purity of your ideas. It judges what you actually accomplish.

[bjo59]

77. Damn straight. Absolutely right on. Completely agree.

[procon]

84. That's quite a stretch, trying to compare FDR to Sanders,

but perhaps you're hoping the latter will yet deliver a similar list of accomplishments... any day now.

[JoePhilly]

93. Who exactly is "bashing Bernie" on his policy positons?

Why do some Bernie supporters feel the need to build bullshit strawmen, light them on fire ... and then dance round in circles?

Here's a thought ... If Bernie was actually FDR ... he'd be winning.

[AzDar]

94. K & R

[Scuba]

115. No, it's unrealistic for the richest country on the planet to do what all those other countries do.

Read it right here on DU.

[Scootaloo]

153. Right? Health care is a luxury only hte richest of nations can afford!

Like Jamaica!

[colsohlibgal]

118. Agreed

The misunderstanding of socialism is off the charts.

On a different site I saw someone blaming the problems of Brazil and Venezuala on socialism. Actually it is corruption and totalitarianism.

Democratic socialism is the answer but enough people here are either dumb or easily swayed by lies and distortion.

[One of the 99]

120. The owners and investors of the military industrial complex

should spit on FDR's grave either since he created and enriched them.

Japanese-Americans who were illegally thrown into concentration camps by FDR's order may fell differently.

[colsohlibgal]

121. Japanese Americans

It is a huge black mark against FDR, his rounding them up to put in a camp. It didn't happen to German Americans or Italian Americans.....wonder what the difference was?

It just seems unbelievable now, that FDR did it and that the citizens seemed mostly fine with it.

[AZ Progressive]

124. And Bill Clinton's Iraq sanctions killed hundreds of thousands of children

And why are you still supporting the Clintons? Because they were Iraqi, not Americans?

[One of the 99]

133. Who said I'm supporting the Clintons?

I voted for Bernie in the NY primary.

[Time for change]

123. Great point

If FDR was running today, Hillary would be complaining about how "unrealistic" his ideas are.

[B Calm]

125. K&R Spot On!

[tonyt53]

126. Odd. Those that claim FDR's programs as Democratic Socialist are now bashing those same programs.

FDR's programs led to the elevation of unions in this country. All the public works programs as well as TVA were all maned by union labor. Unions were the first to hold all races and gender, equally.

[DrDan]

129. bernie is no FDR

FDR went far past amendments to actually make progress.

Talking and doing are two very different things.

[1StrongBlackMan]

131. Well, PoC that are bashingBernie and his economic progressive platform ...

have/would have the same grievance with FDR's Work.

[forjusticethunders]

135. The difference is that FDR was one of the first pols to even listen to black people

He was in many, many ways an incrementalist. The reason he got so much done was because the Republic was at stake and he had a blank check to try things. But he didn't have a blank (i actually said "black" check before editing) check to fight entrenched racism head on for most of his term. When you look at what he managed to do (especially after WWII broke out) it's groundbreaking for the time.

http://rooseveltinstitute.org/african-americans-and-new-deal-look-back-history/
Here's a good overview of it.

POC want to be listened to and taken seriously; Bernie didn't do that, and didn't listen when POC told him he wasn't doing that.

[cui bono]

136. And, I might add, they are standing in the way of progress, the fight for equality.

[stevenleser]

137. The race is over as is the time to discuss this. nt

[vintx]

164. lol - we'll see how it goes in CA and at the convention

I almost feel bad for camp weathervane. Every news cycle from now till the convention will be the cause for much anxiety.

[KPN]

140. Yep. Absolutely dead on!

Unfortunately, most Bernie detractors here have been rationalizing their own past and good fortune away, assigning them to a myriad of other factors, and will continue to do so. But great and ballsy post.

[Triana]

141. I did. I was. And I support Bernie Sanders and that's WHY. n/t

[senz]

151. We didn't know how easy we had it.

I feel sorry for what young people are going through today. It's not fair. It's not the America I grew up in. We need to get it back.

Vote for Bernie.

[ms liberty]

157. I love FDR and you're right...

I've seen from reading this thread a lot of alleged democrats criticizing him, with some justification, but my stars, even with those failings he was still the greatest President of the 20th century. Without his programs and policies, there would have been no expansion of rights after him, and there might have been no US of A.
FDR'S policies brought power and telephone service to homes like those in my rural corner of the south, and gave jobs to people like my uncle, who cleared right of way for the REA to run those power lines, and my cousins who worked for the REA and raised their children on their earnings, and who then grew up and went to work for the REA and raised their children. The same policies allowed my father to help bring telephone service all over the southeast. The for profit companies didn't care to expand to us back then, because they didn't see a profit in it outside the wealth of the cities and urban areas. That's just one tiny personal story - I could talk about the CCC, and my great uncles and the countless men who were in it, and gave us treasures like the Blue Ridge Parkway, an hour NW of where I live. Men who were then strong and healthy when it came time to fight WW2.
Thanks for the thread, AZ Progressive. As I said above, he was far from perfect, but he was a great man. We need a 21st century FDR.