I'm feeling a little angry towards Hillary right now.

[madaboutharry]

You would think after everything that she has gone through, all the accusations and personal attacks going all the way back to when she was First Lady of Arkansas, and given the probability that running for president was at least somewhere on her radar, that she would have been more careful not to put herself in a situation like she is now in. She knows that republicans have their daggars permanently out waiting for any mistake or screw up. I can't believe this self inflicted wound that could have been so easily avoided. Did her own life experience make her paranoid? I don't know what to think. All I know is that things are not good today. I think she would be a very good president but the woman needs an epiphany so she can see she needs to get out of the Clinton bubble. Hillary is the poster child for being your own worst enemy.

[morningfog]

1. The simple answer is that she put herself in the position

not out of naïveté, but intentionally because the alternative would have been worse.

[Eric J in MN]

7. Which alternative? NT

NT

[morningfog]

17. Whatever she is guarding being made known.

[Thirties Child]

130. I don't think she's guarding anything nefarious. It's secrecy for the sake of secrecy.

Secrecy is deep in her personality. She's a Scorpio and Scorpios are usually secretive. Unfortunately for her--and for us if she's the nominee--the scorpion can sting itself to death.

[ThirdWayToTheHighway]

140. And if we ignore astrology...

All signs point to her hiding something. I think it lies in the Clinton Foundation.

[tazkcmo]

156. I'm a scorpio

I'm not secretive in the least. In fact, I'm quite open and honest about myself because I have nothing to hide. I'm no angel either and I accept the consequences of my actions.

[grasswire]

10. I am more cynical than that.

I believe she put herself in the position of hiding emails (likely Foundation related) because the possibility of success at the venture was more likely than the risk of being discovered (until a hacker showed up).

The Clintons, judging from the billions they have taken in through the Foundation, were on their way to being rich beyond dreams, and having the world's most powerful military to use to re-shape the globe.

Until a hacker showed up.

[karynnj]

55. Even without the hacker it would have been discovered

The SD was asked for her email in many inquiries. Someone would have figured it out and then they would have had hard choices.

[merrily]

126. Hard Choices?

Kudos!

[sandyshoes17]

158. She became part of the club

People don't want to realize but it's the republican club. Bill and Hillary joined the republican light club. They moved the party to the right, while fighting for social issues only when it came down to election time. We need to end this now.

[JDPriestly]

2. I remember how I felt when the news about John Edwards' affair

became public.

"I feel your pain." As Bill Clinton used to say.

[Ed Suspicious]

6. That was a shitty moment.

[QC]

8. I felt betrayed then, as I had supported him.

I also felt terrible for his wife, who deserved so much better.

[JDPriestly]

11. Those among Hillary's fans who are intelligent feel that way about

her tonight.

She was warned. Her credibility ratings are in the tank.

Judging from the percentage of voters who think she cannot be trusted, many who voted for her in the primaries now think she is dishonest.

She is in trouble. Her supporters don't know it yet, but they are going to have to swallow their pride and deal with the fact that Hillary is a weak, damaged candidate.

Her only hope was that Trump is worse. But even that many not save her now.

The Hillary supporters are making as light as they can of the damning report released today or yesterday.

But reality will sink in, and it hurts. I know how much it hurts.

Sorry, Hillary fans. The Republicans will make her life miserable over this if she continues to run. And Bernie supporters are not going to help her out. There are three little words that Bernie supporters will be thinking and hopefully not saying. I'll let you think of them yourselves.

Worst of it is the way the Hillary has been so angry at Edward Snowden.

[cui bono]

134. I know two words I'm thinking...

don't know what the third one is though.

.

[Blue Meany]

80. Same here. Not that I thought he was great, but because he

brought poverty back into the discussion, or tried to.

[Yurovsky]

108. His "2 Americas" speech was one of the best in a generation or more...

Primarily because it acknowledged a truth so few politicians ever mention but millions of Americans endure every single day. I felt betrayed then, and it makes me mad now just thinking about what could have been (I think he was VP material if not POTUS, and would keep the issue alive).

Bernie is our only real hope this election. I don't see HRC pushing for real economic justice, not with the forces that hav3 bankrolled her campaign...

[Blue Meany]

124. He gave a great speech and so did Obama...

both of them moved me. Obama was the most likable, Hillary was running a bit to the left of Obama and has more detailed proposals (as she has now), but only Edwards was prepared to begin the critically needed discussion of American poverty. Also, he didn't take money from PACs or lobbyists.

[QC]

111. That was my reason as well--he at least acknowledged

the existence of poverty. That made him a rarity even in the self-styled "party of the people."

[k8conant]

153. I felt the same way.

Elizabeth Edwards was a great woman.

I also had supported John Edwards until he withdrew; then I supported Obama.

[KeepItReal]

28. That mofo dropped out the day I had put my CA primary ballot in the mail for him

He was the only candidate that gave a damn about rebuilding all of New Orleans.

[JDPriestly]

30. It hurt.

And now we have Bernie.

Thanks.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Good post.

"Self-inflicted" aptly describes it.

[Hortensis]

42. Maybe out of all the facets of her life she didn't

foresee this one as one the right wing character assassination machine would fix on. May sound silly, but she didn't want to give up her Blackberry. One memo described her whole staff as "dedicated addicts" to their Blackberries. So as the new SoS, she asked them to make it work and went about her job while the security service worked on a solution to all this technical stuff.

You know, this is all in the context of often very inadequate government electronic systems and the literally hundreds of thousands of people who at times operate around whatever rules there are, for both good and bad reasons. We've all been reading and hearing about these problems for as long as security has been an issue (always). The State Department's systems were absolutely not what they should be. Not just electronic, but people. Mail through its e-mail system was seen by many and often ended up as gossip and passed to the press.

There is another context. If she had not done this, the enormously wealthy forces ranged on the right would have chosen something else. The main criterion seems to be that the facet or action chosen enable use of the legal system to keep it in the news for at least months by having various groups file repeated charges, requests for information under the Freedom of Information Act, etc., etc.

It's the claims of great crimes committed that make people care, not technical stuff. Who out here has spent 5 seconds wondering about what servers the Senators on the Senate Intelligence Committee use? Or Blackberries? Or which email addresses? What other irregularities in their communications and other security systems? How about all the cabinet officials in their various fiefdoms? None, because nobody's trying to use these things to take them down. And so no one cares.

THE REAL CONTEXT: Political power. Our power as voters. WE are the focus of this attack, those who intend to vote for her and those who want an alternative to Trump. They're not trying to get us to vote Republican. They are trying to break our will to vote so that we'll stay home on election day.

Fuck them and their plans. They're desperate now, but that's nothing to what we're going to do to them next November.

[karynnj]

58. Do you think John Kerry was less addicted to his blackberry

And ipad? If anything he was more engaged electronically. He traveled more, was involved in more long term negotiations and he followed the rules.

The rules when he came in were the same as hers. They changed in 2014.

Was it just that he characteristicly followed rules and she thought she was above them?

[Hortensis]

59. No, I think right-wing Judicial Watch's use of

this issue in its vicious 20-year pursuit of Hillary Clinton was like about 10,000 times the warning any sensible man needed to go into protective mode. And John Kerry's a sensible man.

Don't you ever wonder who's really behind this? Not Judicial Watch and the Heritage Foundation themseves -- who do those organizations serve? Who funds and gives them their orders? It used to be Richard Mellon Scaife and the men he had handling this for him. Those were the people who brought you 20 years of -gates. With his special vendetta against the Clintons, Scaife was the ringleader of the very wealthy enemies of the Democratic Party whom Hillary fingered as "a vast right-wing conspiracy." He died about three years ago or so, but his money lives on, and as do many others who learned from him, like those controlling a long list of corporations, including the Koch brothers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/30/judicial-watch-pursuing-the-clintons-like-inspector-javert-since-before-the-millennium/

[karynnj]

64. Had HRC been a sensible woman she would know that

Anything she did that was questionable would be used against her. Like Obama, just giving them nothing that was wrong should be the answer.

As to the right wing, Kerry was attacked viciously from the time he was a young vet dealing with everything he saw in Vietnam.

[Hortensis]

67. Yes, and they took out Kerry and put W in the White House,

who actually served them quite well and repaid their investments with many kings' fortunes.

Btw, you don't quite understand what being "a sensible woman" would require: not living. Not that somehow living without making a single strategic mistake would work, even if possible.

What "truth" was behind their swiftboating of Kerry? Not only absolutely none, but it required making people disbelieve many honorable and admirable truths. But nothing but lies piled on lies repeated across the nation thousands of times achieved their goal of taking out a true American hero and plugging in W.

[karynnj]

88. There was no truth in the swiftboat lies, but W had already been in the WH for 4 years

I have no doubt that if it were an open race, Kerry would have won.

He was a sitting President in a time of war and because of 911 too many people, traumatized by the attacks, were still rallying around Bush. That was the main reason that Bush won -- even though the attacks on Kerry didn't help.

[merrily]

129. The US has never voted out a war time incumbent President. NEVER.

Arguably, Truman (Korean "Police Action&quot and Johnson ("Vietnam Era) were driven out as war time incumbents, but we don't know what would have happened had they stuck it out.

I actually heard a bus driver say in 2004 that he was voting for Bush because Bush was the only one who knew where each of the terrorists was hiding. I wanted to ask why he was not taking them out if he knew where they were, but I was too far back in the bus when he said that. So I just rolled my eyes and sighed.

[karynnj]

133. Sadly, one of the major papers did focus groups in Ohio to see why

(other than voter suppression) Kerry lost. What was depressing was that they did agree with Kerry on most issues. Why many voted against him was that they were still traumatized by the US being attacked and they worried that Kerry might be too moral or upright to do things Cheney and Bush would - like torture. At that point, they were essentially saying in a bad world, they needed someone not constrained by nearly anything I thought we believed in!.

[merrily]

135. Someone had a theory that Kerry lost because Hillary wanted to run in 2008 and that's

why Carville got involved. I don't remember all the details right now. I think the assumption may have been that, if Kerry because President in 2004, he would either have won in 2008, too. Either that, or, politically, she could not challenge an incumbent. I'm not sure of the details.

[Loudestlib]

73. Wasn't Obama addicted to his BlackBerry?

He worked with the NSA and the SS to keep using it. Hillary didn't ask anyone and she did it in secret.
Bush and Bill gave up email to friends.

"Gibbs said Obama's use of the BlackBerry will be limited and security will be enhanced, most likely with heavy encryption to deter information from winding up in the hands of hackers or others who would want to see harm come to him or to the United States.

Former presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton did not use e-mail while in office. Before taking office for his first term, Bush e-mailed friends and relatives about why he would no longer be using electronic mail."

"Since I do not want my private conversations looked at by those out to embarrass, the only course of action is not to correspond in cyberspace," he wrote to them."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28780205/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/t/obama-gets-keep-his-blackberry/

[1StrongBlackMan]

105. I wrote yesterday ...

It seems that there are Policies and Regulations (which the report indicates were violated) and Agency/Office/Departmental Practices (which the report indicates were followed, instead).

It would seem, the only folks that would be outraged by the following of Agency/Office/Departmental Practices over the Policies and Regulations, would be partisan, agenda pushers; or, people that have never worked a job, or are willing to ignore what they experienced/learned on that job.

Agency/Office/Departmental Practices that conflict with Policies and Regulations develop over time as work-arounds for those doing the day to day work because the Policies and Regulations are too unyielding. Further, the work-arounds are never an issue unless/until something goes wrong. In this case, the "go wrong" was the right needed a stick ... the bigger "go wrong" is Bernie supporters are proving, more than willing to swing that stick.

Finally, I will say ... my, above, Bernie supporters comment is based how they are presenting themselves on DU. And, I limit it to DU, because I really never hear or see the topic outside of DU ... other than from naked partisans of the right. But that said, looking at the body of the posts/arguments of the most outraged DUers, I am starting to doubt their presentation as Bernie supporters.

[BootinUp]

4. Don't Worry

Be Happy

[Scootaloo]

5. Well. Congratulations on the eventual nomination I guess. n/t

[still_one]

9. Curious why you didn't post this in the Hillary group?

[madaboutharry]

14. Because this is bigger than the Hillary group.

This could blow the whole election - as in "President Trump."

I feel like throwing up.

[still_one]

18. Then if you truly believe that, you should really vote for Bernie. Here are some threads that

discuss this issue, and they don't turn it into another Hillary bashing thread, which 95% of the posts have been doing here since the primaries have started on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=144617

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107146099

[madaboutharry]

20. I will vote for whoever is the nominee.

[still_one]

35. I assumed that. My point was simply that if you feel the way you do about this issue, then

perhaps you should support Bernie. If your primary has already run, nothing stops you from supporting him until the nomination is final. The primaries are still going on, and a nominee hasn't happened yet.

[Fla Dem]

176. You still should have vented this angst with those who would nave been understanding of your

feelings. I'm surprised that a veteran like you would not have anticipated the rancor that would have been directed at the candidate you support, by posting this in GDP.

Then posting that you were banned by the Hillary Group opened that group up to more rancor and negative comments.

I know you have been a HRC supporter and understand your anxiety over more "Trumped" up charges being level at HRC. But you picked the wrong place for empathy and understanding.

You might try pm'ing the Mod who banned you and request reinstatement.

[madaboutharry]

177. I think you are wrong.

We are all democrats here. Many supporters of each candidate are not members of the smaller forum/group for the candidate. Problems with the candidates should be discussed openly among us, not only within a small arena where groupthink may take over. If we are not able to evaluate our candidates honestly, even in a harsh light, then how do we move forward in holding them accountable?

I think this has been a productive discussion, even if some things are difficult to hear.

And for what it is worth, I support Hillary and hope for her to have a successful presidency. For that to happen she, like other successful leaders, must take responsibility and be held to a high standard.

[TheCowsCameHome]

16. Are you kidding? And get yourself tossed out?

[still_one]

23. You don't what you are talking about. Here is one which discusses the issue, and the problems

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=144617

and there are others.

By posting out in the General Discussion : Primary, it isn't going to discuss what the report actually said, but this thread will turn into an entire Hillary bashing thread.

and it is everyone's right to post what they want, but this won't be a discussion about the actually issues, this thread will devolve into something else

http://static.politico.com/f3/9b/19d29ab14abeb4a30ca2975f1e6c/oig-report.pdf

[madaboutharry]

57. I think this thread has encouraged very good discussion.

[demmiblue]

54. That didn't take long:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107145371#post14

Sad, really.

[TheCowsCameHome]

120. lol

The purge continues.........

[senz]

162. An image of jack boots went through my mind while reading that.

[polly7]

167. Wow. Not allowed to even question her. Unreal.

Yet that poster absolutely hated Hillary Clinton in 2008 and their posts remain loud and proud.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6017420&mesg_id=6018254

[TheCowsCameHome]

170. Bwahahaha.

Bus-ted.

[SheilaT]

12. It's not as if this has come up suddenly.

She's been lying, delaying, and obfuscating about the whole email thing for how long now? Over a year.

And to think that the Hillarybots have been piously saying she's SOOOO qualified, so experienced, just so RIGHT for the job. And every time anyone questions things like her veracity (under fire in Bosnia anyone? The Reagans opening a dialogue about AIDS?) we've been ignored or shut down.

Well, chickens come home to roost.

[madaboutharry]

15. "Hillarybots" was unnecessary.

Why the need to denigrate people?

[SheilaT]

24. I'm quite sick and tired of the denigration of the Bernie people

here. You may never have thrown out Bernie Bros, but lots of people here have.

More to the point, her lying about her emails and the email server goes back years. We've been pointing that out for some time here, and all along the Hillary gang have been saying it's nothing, nothing at all. Well, it is something. It's somewhere between annoying and offensive to have her supporters now acting as if this is totally breaking news. They're shocked, just shocked, but some of us aren't buying.

[realmirage]

34. Yes, the GOP created the indictment fairy

and some here have become true believers of this fairy and its fantastical tale.

[Autumn]

96. No Hillary's actions created that when she forced an FBI investigation by her actions and

hasn't had the decency to step down. A presidential candidate under investigation by the FBI is a shitty candidate.

[pdsimdars]

65. And saying it with a lot of smugness and condescension. I don't mind people disagreeing with me

but all that smugness and condescension was really annoying.

I do think that the mention of how we felt about John Edwards is apt. We really felt a bit empty after that. So we do understand, but we have been taking a lot of snide remarks for a long time now.

[FourScore]

100. Seriously? You're going to bring that up in this thread? From one Bernie supporter to another...

shut the f*** up!

The OP has written a really heartfelt post about her feelings. She's starting to see the truth and is dealing with that. Have some heart!!

"Hillarybots!!" Good greif!

[SheilaT]

119. The OP reads as if this is a genuinely new and totally unexpected turn of events.

It's not. It's not just some fantasy constructed by the GOP, but a real problem with the emails and her private server. And her lies, delays, and obfuscations have been going on for years, in public no less. It's just that the recent report does NOT exonerate her, does NOT say this is just a tempest in a teapot. It says this is really serious. And even if there's no indictment, this shows her true colors: and unreliable person with extremely bad judgement. And yet, they've been maintaining all along that she's the best, the most hones, the most experienced candidate ever!

We've been trying to get them to understand all along that she has a problem with the truth, her judgement might possibly be a bit less than fabulous, and that just being the first female President isn't a sufficient qualification to overlook her many flaws.

Ever since Bernie declared his candidacy, we've endured mockery and scorn from these people. The word I chose to use isn't all that bad, especially given the circumstances.

I do hope the OP actually gives serious thought about continuing to support Hillary.

[demmiblue]

121. I agree... it is akin to kicking someone when they are down. n/t

[pengu]

53. Your side has spent the entire primary insulting, lying, and cheating Bernie supporters

You have zero room to complain.

[Marr]

155. +1, couldn't agree more. /nt

[FourScore]

101. Such empathy!!! (Yeah, I'm saying it with sarcasm.)

And BTW, I'm a Bernie supporter.

[Marr]

154. Exactly. Some of them act like this is a natural disaster that just came out of nowhere.

They've foisted this lamed candidate on us, with all the information floating around out there.

[FourScore]

13. I really appreciate this open reflection, and I honestly share your dismay.

Full disclosure: I am a Bernie supporter.

However, when I saw the first debate, I felt very excited about being a democrat. I thought we had excellent candidates. I never thought Bernie would be able to win this election. I am quite impressed with what he has accomplished. Still, this election was going to be Hillary's, and once she won the primary, I was going to throw all my support behind her.

I thought the whole email stuff was just right-wing tripe in the beginning, but I had worked with classified material in Berlin during the Cold War, so I understand protocol. It was when she claimed the top secret emails were not yet classified that I started asking myself what the hell she was talking about - she knows better than that!

I began to look into the whole mess. She has been beyond cavalier. She broke laws, endangered Americans and possibly outed spies. I am convinced that an indictment is coming. I think it is unavoidable. Unfortunately, this election has become so toxic, no Hillary supporter believes me when I say that such an outcome is not my wish. Not for Hillary, not for the democrats and not for America. I am very afraid of what this server mess will mean during this high-stakes election. The FBI must make a statement soon. They need to give the democrats a way to fix this. Even if she is not indicted, the right wing is going to use it to their advantage.

I see this oncoming train, and all I can think is, "We're basically screwed."

[LAS14]

147. I'm sorry you've bought the whole smear.

[JudyM]

19. I appreciate your sharing that. I would be feeling the same way if I were supporting her, too.

Kind of a combination of how could she have done this and is this really happening. Especially supporters who were looking up to her as the 1st woman POTUS, it has to be a huge letdown. As a dem I'm scared about how this is going to play out in the election.

[Aerows]

21. I do thank you for saying so.

I do believe there will be a deluge following you with all of the "why did she do such a thing".

[2banon]

22. that's what we've been trying to say..

it may seem like today's news, but it really isn't.

[Arazi]

25. I empathize. It's been an eye opening 24 hours

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. I feel your pain

And 2008 taught me a good lesson. Do not fall in love...

[Scootaloo]

31. I learned a similar lesson this time around

"People you only know on the internet aren't really your friends."

It's a shame, but seems to be true Hell of a primary season, huh?

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. True, true

[elleng]

27. Poor judgment.

Not presidential material.

[dchill]

29. Hillary IS the Clinton bubble.

It's her ecosystem.

[senz]

163. ...

her ecosystem

ty, much needed

[Betty Karlson]

45. That was a sweet post.

You are one amazing person, gifted with lots of emotional intelligence.

[Land of Enchantment]

141. Nice post. I read the idea of the basement server was Bill's initially.

It was probably also used by the Clinton Foundation and was reportedly moved to Manhattan at one point. Paul Thompson has done some interesting OP's on related issues.

http://freebeacon.com/blog/wanted-the-clinton-server/

The inquiries are bringing to light new information about Clinton’s use of the system and the lengths to which she went to install a private channel of communication outside government control — a setup that has emerged as a major issue in her campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.

For instance, the server installed in her Chappaqua, N.Y., home as she was preparing to take office as secretary of state was originally used by her first campaign for the presidency, in 2008, according to two people briefed on the setup. A staffer who was on the payroll of her political action committee set it up in her home, replacing a server that Clinton’s husband, former president Bill Clinton, had been using in the house…

Late to this thread but in case you are interested...

Paul Thompson thread....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511902710
Number 33

[jillan]

33. I feel the same way. She gave the repugs even more ammo to attack her on. As if

they didn't have enough.

Instead of debating issues we get to debate why Hillary used a private server and lie about it.

And Her smugness when asked about it in the earlier debates.

It's so aggravating.

She has not only hurt herself, she has hurt the party. Especially running against Trump who has no boundaries. He will rip her to shreds.

[agracie]

36. She has let her supporters down for sure. I'm sorry this happened to you. Must be hard for ...

you to watch.

[noiretextatique]

37. Hubris...just like her husband

Too bad too many are A-OK with this pattern.

[840high]

38. Thank you for posting. Even

though I am for Bernie I appreciate your post very much.

[bvf]

39. "A little"? "Now"?

Face it. She's not that smart. Never has been. Oh, smart enough to become a lawyer, sure, but there are enough of those around to demonstrate how little it really requires in the way of brains. (Links on request.)

She's where she is (in really hot water) for one reason only:

Despite being lucky enough to stumble into a marriage with a then-future president, and consequently being able to launch a political career based on practically nothing more than that, she was not (and has never been) smart enough to realize there's just some shit you can't get away with--even with a country bursting with poorly informed enablers, and a shitload of equally wealthy buddies like Donald Trump.

Yeah, a lot of people are "a little angry towards Hillary" right now. Problem for you is that you've had as much chance as everbody else to see crap like this coming for years, and chose to ignore it.

[AtomicKitten]

40. I am struck by your understanding she brought this on herself.

Sometimes truth is like a punch in the face.

to your honesty.

[Nate Roberts]

41. this isn't just a matter of optics — it's about honesty

she would have been more careful not to put herself in a situation like she is now in. She knows that republicans have their daggars permanently out waiting for any mistake or screw up. I can't believe this self inflicted wound

I agree this makes puts her in the not-so-smart category of presidential hopefuls. But I'm a bit concerned that this seems to be your primary concern. This isn't just about optics. It's about honesty. And the fact that she appears to have been deliberately circumventing the public's right to access.

Many of us have been warning about this issue from the get go, only to have our concerns dismissed by Hillary supporters as frivolous . At what point will Hillary supporters be willing to give their candidate a re-think?

At what point will you be willing to consider the possibility that the Democrats are making a suicidal mistake?

[Betty Karlson]

44. Maybe we need a president who doesn't have an enemy as bad as she herself?

Seriously, we can't afford to wait for Clinton to have epiphanies on every decision she has to make. Her record on TPP and gay rights shows us how she would administrate: doing the wrong thing for as long as possible, and then only doing the right thing after all other options have been tried. And even then: reluctant to do the right thing.

NO. NOT someone I'd want as my president.

[TheKentuckian]

66. Exactly. A politician with a disdain for accountability to the public is not just not perfect

but dangerous to democracy.

[John Poet]

46. This is EXACTLY the kind of "problem" that ~Super-Delegate Insurance~

was intended to get us out of....

[winter is coming]

128. Nope. Super-Delegate Insurance was really intended to get us out of a

"Holy cow, those proles voted for someone who's not Establishment!" problem. The great irony is that it could be used now to get us out of a real hole--and that the superdelegates Hillary's been counting on for months now to secure the nomination could actually take it away from her.

[GreatGazoo]

47. I have the same pit in my stomach that I got watching Bill compound the Lewinsky thing

by straight up lying, emphatically. Watching a team member make mistakes like these is depressing.

And yes, where is the learning? Where is 'fess up and try to put this behind you' instead of sticking with denials to the bitter end?

[madaboutharry]

48. I have been blocked from the Hillary group over this post.

I am very sad that I have been blocked from the Hillary group over a post in General Discussion: Primaries that I think is honest criticism. I am stunned that I have been blocked over comments made elsewhere on this site which I see as honest and coming from my heart.

I can not express how hurt this makes me. I very much support Hillary. In fact, I have contributed almost $500 to her campaign.

Supporting a candidate, in my mind does not require one to be afraid to speak truthfully. This must be what it felt like to live in the Soviet Union.

I feel like I was being stalked.

I still would have posted this because it is how I feel. I am torn up about it and feel rather devastated that Hillary has, in my mind, created a very big problem that could end up costing her the presidency.

But, I feel bad that I have paid the price of being blocked from a place that I liked being able to post in.

[pinebox]

50. Let them have their little clique of stupid

[demmiblue]

51. Par for the course, I'm afraid.

I hope some of the members of that group will speak up for you.

I'm sorry your feelings are hurt.

[TheKentuckian]

68. That is the standard operating procedure, unfortunately.

[pdsimdars]

69. Now you get some of the feelings we have been having. Those Hillary people seem mean to me.

How they can kick you out for that. It's like you read the stories of some gay teen being kicked out of his house by his family because he came out to them. It's just wrong.
Don't worry though, we're nice over here (unlike you hear in all the media rumors).

[mountain grammy]

87. Haven't you heard? No criticism of Hillary allowed.

I'm sorry that happened to you. Your post was honest and true and ostracizing you for it is ridiculous. We can put our hands over our eyes and block our ears, but that's not going to get Hillary elected.

[pmorlan1]

90. I'm sorry

you are being punished for being honest. Maybe they are just having a harder time dealing with what has been revealed and they are lashing out at anyone who dares talk about it. It's probably worse when it comes from a Hillary supporter which is probably why they banned you. Hopefully there are other Hillary supporters here who share your concern, who having seen your post will be more comfortable discussing their own doubts. And hopefully those people will embrace you for being honest.

There is nothing wrong with being honest and saying what you think. In fact, having people speak honestly is one of the best things about DU. The dishonesty during Primaries is when DU is at it's worst.

While I don't share your support of Sec. Clinton I do wish you the best. Most of us have supported candidates who let us down so we truly can empathize with what you are going through right now. While most of us won't rub it in your face I'm afraid there will be some who will. Hopefully if that happens others will come to your aid.

By the way, nice to meet you. I wish it was under better circumstances for you.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

107. When I read your post I figured they'd block you

because not even the slightest criticism or questioning of Hillary is ever allowed. I'm sorry that happened to you but the rest of us appreciate your honesty. When your favorite candidate lets you down it's really disappointing (I initially supported Edwards in '08), but your "friends" in the Hillary Group shouldn't be rubbing salt in the wound.

[jack_krass]

113. I've noticed that *some* Hillary followers have an authoritarian streak...

Many of them see "breaking the glass ceiling" as the overriding goal, and have chosen Hillary as their icon. They consider their "mission" to get Hillary in power as all-important, almost sacred. This end justify any means, and they will ignore any flaws or problems with their "chosen one", and act vindictively against any criticism

It all makes me wonder what type if people will coalesse around HRC if/when she has real, god-like power of being POTUS? Will she or her followers be vindictive? How will they take crisicism when they have tral power? Will they try to settle old scores, ect?

[progressoid]

114. Wow. Sorry to hear that.

Sucks you got booted for this one post.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

123. i'm so sorry Madaboutharry

"Come hang out at the nerd table with us. The meangirls were obviously never your real friends." *

*Said once to me in high school

[Curmudgeoness]

145. Wow. I have heard that there is a lot of anger there,

but this goes beyond that. I am sorry that there are people who are being that petty.

You spoke what you feel, and that is not wrong. They are wrong. But if you are still supportive of Hillary, you don't need that group. And if you want to change candidates, Bernie is still running.

[AlbertCat]

146. I have been blocked from the Hillary group over this post.

Of course you were!

The Hillary court is not amused.

OFF WITH YOUR HEAD.

Remember, the walls have ears....




Now you know why we sometimes call it "Butt-hurt Central".

[BillZBubb]

159. The cult is very strong in that group. You are much better off being on the outside.

Any mention of even small doubts about Hillary is enough to get you thrown out. It's fanatical.

[Capt. Obvious]

160. Mahalo

[kdmorris]

164. I am sorry that happened to you

I was also blocked from the group for speaking the truth... for saying exactly the same thing that Skinner did.

[passiveporcupine]

165. I'm sorry you were blocked from your own candidate's group

That was very unkind, but to me it shows just how scared the Hillary group is about any conversation that might not be praise about Hillary. Even reasonable questions and concerns are not allowed in the group.

This is what it feels like to be thrown under the bus.

I am glad you posted this thread though, because it is refreshing to see someone who supports a candidate and is still willing to question their actions when they do something sketchy. If we can't question the actions of our candidate, then do we really even support them, or are we just trying to make them into something we want them to be? If facing a negative is too hard to bear, especially from your own team, then you are trying too hard to protect your own image of your candidate. It's time to step back and reflect on why.

You have an open mind, and that's never a bad thing.

This private Hillary group is not the only place to support your candidate. You can still do it in GDP, and there are other Hillary supports groups (Skinner started one) that you can visit too.

Any way, I am really sorry you got dumped on...just for wanting to express your feelings and concerns. I hope tomorrow is a better day.

[madaboutharry]

166. What group did Skinner start?

[passiveporcupine]

168. I'm not a Hill fan so I don't know what it's called,

But there may be a link to it in the Hillary group. You can still read there.

[polly7]

169. I don't remember the name of it either, but visited just after it was

made, and it was a very nice site.

[beltanefauve]

171. Hillary Mojo

Can't say I've ever been there.

[Warren DeMontague]

179. He wanted to keep it positive, IIRC, so of course it flopped.

People were far more interested in having little clubhouses from which they could gripe about their "enemies".

[bvf]

172. Sorry to hear.

Obviously there's no room over there for honest views, however strongly you support her.

One day, this whole site may resemble that little enclave. I hope not, but from some of the stuff I've read recently in ATA, I don't see much reason for optimism.

Meanwhile, wear your block the way most of us do: as a badge of honor!

[Warren DeMontague]

178. I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM JUST -TRY- TO BLOCK ME!

MUAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

[pinebox]

49. Finally! The voice of sanity from a Hillary supporter!

Seriously, your post is a relief because YOU GET IT.
Hillary knew all along this was wrong and despite that she chose KNOWINGLY to do this. This is what I can't stand about her supporters, they act like Hillary can never do anything wrong and that she is above the law, what applies to us does not ever apply to the Clinton's, ever. The mere fact that Hillary told her staff members that nobody was ever to bring any of this up and she did not get permission to do this, knowing that she would be told "no", says it all. She is guilty straight away and her and her aides refusing to answer questions speaks volumes.

I'm sorry but how anybody can trust this woman to even run the country is beyond me. Yet her supporters wonder why America both can't stand her and doesn't trust her? Seriously?

But you get it. It's nice to see this out of a Hillary supporter. Dems are about to nominate the weakest candidate and one who has a lot of baggage, one nobody has trusted in 3 decades and who's numbers have never gone up, only down. It's like Dems are trying really hard to lose this election which has become about who you don't want as POTUS.

Sad.

[pdsimdars]

70. And did you get that, they kicked her out of the Hillary group for getting it and saying it.

That's brutal.

[LAS14]

76. How did you find that out?

[intheflow]

137. She posted it, upthread. n/t

[tblue37]

180. She said so in a post earlier in this thread. nt

[Uncle Joe]

52. It's the same MO Bill Clinton operated under, the Republicans were coming after him tooth and nail

during the 92 campaign for "bimbo eruptions" and it never ceased throughout his Presidency and what did he do but give them all the justification they needed when he abandoned any concept about "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" (theme song from the 92 Democratic Convention) with the Lewinsky Affair in 1998.

Bill simply didn't care about how this could/would damage Gore's run in 2000, he even went so far as to bring Al into his own personal scandal, having him stand on the White House Lawn and publicly defend him from the accusation during the height of impeachment, knowing full well that he had lied to the people with his "I did not have sexual relations with that woman Monica Lewinsky!"

The nation would've been much better off if Bill had either admitted the truth upfront or at the very least just kept his mouth shut instead of lying about it and then compounding that by bringing Al into it.

Thanks for the thread, madaboutharry.

[Barack_America]

56. Even though I'm a Bernie supporter, I completely understand you.

I want to vote for the first female nominee. I hit that glass ceiling every day.

But, first and foremost, I am electing a President who will largely shape the country my children will grow up in. And I don't feel I can trust Hillary.

Shit like this email server is not helping, and I fear, has well and truly lost her the few independents and moderate Republicans who were courting her.

Andrea Mitchell was right when she said this was, "devastating".

[Jester Messiah]

60. She considers herself above the law.

I bet she's a pathological narcissist.

[madaboutharry]

61. No.

She doesn't trust anyone. That is something different.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

112. In that sense she reminds me of Nixon.

He didn't trust anyone either, and that trait is what finally brought him down.

[RufusTFirefly]

161. Yes. As offensive as that analogy is to some, it has validity

There's something of the Shakespearean tragedy in this whole sad episode.

Perhaps she's truly hiding something. But another possibility is that she's grown so paranoid that secrecy has become her default behavior.

As history has taught us, sometimes the coverup is worse than the crime.

I hasten to add that I'm definitely not a Hillary fan. Not because of her stonewalling, but because of my fundamental differences with her on numerous policies.

[tblue37]

181. Precisely. After decades of being hunted by what really is a vast right wing

conspiracy, she automatically, instinctively operates in a self-protective crouch. A lot of her problems come from her completely understandable preference for having only the most intensely loyal people around her, because in their absolute loyalty, they operate as yes-men so that she exists inside a bubble that enables, virtually guarantees, unforced errors.

On the one hand, I am impressed by her ability to inspire such loyalty and devotion in those who know her best and work most closely with her. But on the other hand, operating from such a protective bubble does blind her to the risk of certain behaviors and actions that hand weapons to her enemies.

Considering those relentless enemies and the fact that they are not constrained by any sort of honor, decency, or sense of fairness, her desperate attempts to carve out an island of privacy to allow her to do her job without constantly looking over her shoulder is understandable--but, unfortunately, shortsighted, and it ultimately could prove disastrous because of the way it was done.

I think of J'aquen Haghar's comment in Sunday's GoT episoode, when he was informed that Arya Stark didn't follow through on the assassination she had been ordered to commit: "A pity. A girl had many talents."

[Cobalt Violet]

62. It's refreshing to see one of her supporters actually thinking.

I'm sorry for your loss. My condolences. I hope something good can come out of this somehow.

[Katashi_itto]

63. A decent post by a Hillary supporter. I sympathize

[asuhornets]

72. Hillary is going to be an excellent president..

Shite happens. They will never stop hunting her..Never..and she knows it. Excellent president..

[asuhornets]

85. Nothing will happen...NOTHING..see you on June 7th..Hillary needs less than 80 delegates

Actually make that June 4 and June 5. Puerto Rico and Virgins are wins for Hillary, along with CA and NJ. It will be a historical moment..

[Bluenorthwest]

91. How could a person who claims to be 'hunted' endorse things like DADT for others?

That seems highly contradictory or perhaps just entirely hypocritical and self serving. She's a target who is willing to make targets out of others? DOMA? Her years of opposing LGBT families? She's 'hunted' but also has no problem holding up a minority group that is regularly victim of hate crimes as some offense to her God? How does that work?

[asuhornets]

93. Newsflash: Bernie Sanders was against gay in 2006-2007?

[JonLeibowitz]

127. Newsflash your post is a falsehood.

[LAS14]

148. Hear, hear!!!!!

[LAS14]

74. At first I didn't know how to feel....

... and then I realized that it's nuts to expect a human being to be perfect. Sure, in the pressure of a debate and a TV interview she said, "as transparent as possible" and "anytime anywhere" and regreted it when she bumped into the complexities of life. And while wrestling with an "antiquated" e-mail system, whose rules no one could support she took a step that right wingers could use against her in a presidential run years away. So what? Talk about bubbles. We live in a bubble if we think our candidate can never make a mistake.

One of the reasons I support her is that she grasps and can handle complexity. Let's try to do the same.

[Madam Mossfern]

89. Hillary is not remorseful

It is far from a 'mistake., it was calculated.

[islandmkl]

99. calculated + caught = 'mistake'...that has always been Clinton math...

after all, it's all about the math...

[LAS14]

150. How can you possibly know that?

[Madam Mossfern]

175. How can you NOT know that.

Mistakes happen by accident. Her using a private server, not relinquishing her e-mails, etc. were definitely not accidents, they were done purposefully. Ergo - no 'mistake'. Maybe the better word would have been 'misjudged'?

[findrskeep]

75. K & R nt

[HereSince1628]

77. IMO it's a character thing... she only recognizes legal authority and even then argues the points

to her advantage. She has a fascination with loopholes and the boundaries and distinctions between what's legal and what's other than legal.

She's a very educated much above average intelligence person who would make a excellent head of a corporate legal dept in the world of Gordon Gekko.

And -that- is what sums up what imo is wrong with her. She's PERFECT for a job she's not running for.

[Hiraeth]

86. amoral ambition. unethical hubris. a skewed sense of integrity.

that legal thing is a real bugaboo when you don't have an interior moral compass.

Rationalize it any way you want to she does not think the laws apply to her because: loophole, she will find it/create it and then jump through it. I bet her and Bill have had some interesting conversations in their day.

[rufus dog]

104. Great post

There is a reason both Bill and Hillary always seem to find themselves in these situations, THEY LIKE IT!

Both are very intelligent, know the risks along with the future impact. But both of them are driven to take the risk, and then manage the chaos created by their actions.

Hardcore Hillary supporters point at Sanders and Republicans as the problem, but the problems exist due to the Clinton's actions.

Compare and contrast this with the Obama's, same amount of B.S. thrown at them, (if not more) it doesn't stick because there in never any reality to the attacks. With the Clinton's a plethora of actual questionable events exists so even unfounded attacks stick to them.

Many have noted that Bill was the best Republican President in a half century, and I think Hillary is to the right of Bill. They both represent the typical republican politician, rules don't apply, when called out they become the victim.

Finally they continue to do great harm to the Democratic Party and brand. Very sad, because I think she will likely pull out a win against Trump. Which will then embolden her and she will continue to make questionable decisions. Resulting in a loss in 2020, thus providing Republicans another 10 years of gerrymandered districts, resulting in another decade of gridlock.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. It was a mistake. Hindsight is better than foresight.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. Welcome back. Oh, 59% of Senate Dems voted for the IWR, including the sitting VP and SOS

[Bluenorthwest]

92. And you think that makes it right? I don't.

And I did not appoint those Iraq War voters to anything and none have had my primary support. They were all very wrong and really should not have been rewarded with promotions for being wrong.
A majority of Democrats including Biden voted for DOMA as well. These days they all pretend they didn't. But they did.

[Tom Rinaldo]

118. It's been a continuing mistake though

Not the use of the private server, that's over, but her handling of the controversy. I think her initial mistake in judgement was serious, but there's no one alive who doesn't screw up something badly some time, I get that. I also get that politics is fairly unforgiving. Hillary could have chosen to face the music fully over her screw up early, and that would have given immediate fodder to the Right to attack her for "endangering national security". How damaging that would have been then I can't know or say, but it wouldn't have compounded the issue with further layers of distrust over her honesty in how she's dealt with it subsequently.

I actually am sympathetic to her over her, in hindsight, initial bone headed mistake. I don't think it should have been disqualifying had she more openly, more immediately owned up to it. Republicans would have tried to argue that it was though, and she knew that t the time She would have taken hits. She made a different choice which was to gamble on most of the details of what took place never seeing the light of day, so she sure as hell wasn't going to expose them first. In fact her use of a private server, for example, almost didn't surface.

If I was a bookie I would have guessed her odds were about three to one for pulling it off and getting out of this with few if any scars by consistently downplaying all of it until the public grew tired of yet another seeming Republican witch hunt. That's how I felt about this all until fairly recently. Pretty tempting odds, but with those odds still one time in four it all goes wrong. Now Hillary is being called out for not cooperating with an investigation she said she would cooperate with fully. Now it is revealed that Hillary knew there were attempts to hack her private emails at the time, but continued to use it etc. etc.

Hillary took a calculated risk by being as obtuse as she was. I can even understand that. But if it ends up blowing up in her face now as I fear that it has started to I hope she is willing to accept the consequences for the gamble I believe she made. Whether or not Bernie should be our nominee is a separate issue from whether or not Hillary still can be, if Democrats want to hold onto the White House in the fall. Be it Sanders, Biden, Warren, Kerry or someone else, the Super Delegates should now start quietly considering all of the options.

[B Calm]

83. She needs to drop out now so the Democratic Party can put distance between her and save face

[StevieM]

144. Sorry but Bernie can't have the nomination without winning it, just like every other candidate.

He was defeated at the polls therefore he will not be the nominee.

[Autumn]

94. Hillary above all people should have known what would happen with this. She gave

them a gift to use against her. This investigation will go on for months or longer and will keep dripping out. If she is nominated they will use this to knock her out and if she does win there will be nothing but hearings and investigations and not a fucking thing gets done. We pay the price for her doing stupid shit.

[laserhaas]

95. This is exactly why she did all of this..if you think theres

reasons to be upset with all the circumvention

Just think how much hoopla there would be...if what she is trying so hard to hide...were to make it into the media

She's jyst not sayin.....

[Separation]

97. LOL your right

The problem is that (this is only my opinion) is that she believes she is above reproach. That if anything is slung at her its not her fault, its some RWC out to get her.

[Armstead]

98. Appreciate your honesty

I'm a Bernie supporter, and there are few times he's disappointed and/or pissed me off with something.

The problem with the e-mail thing IMO is that it epitomizes a tendency to skirt the normal rules of behavior and boundaries. Most people don't get worked up over e-mail servers (unless an indictment becomes involved) but it does add to a sense of distrust....It raises a question: If she did that as SoS, what other rules and standards might she and Bill engage in if they are the occupants of the WH again? And how much fodder will that give to the GOP Obstruction Machine. Does that mean we're in for 8 years of procedural "scandals"?

[artyteacher]

102. you dont get it.

Anything the Clintons do or never did will be turned into a scandal. The GOP does that with all dems really.

[islandmkl]

103. everybody 'gets it'...the real 'it'...scandals seem to be manifest with ALL DEMS?

not hardly...

unfortunately, the Clintons 'situations' are almost totally a result of their own actions...

anything with no foundation will not become a 'scandal'...may or may not involve 'true facts', but 'scandals' based fully on lies have short shelf-lives...

whereas those with even a modicum of truth can go on for as long as they are needed to be in play...by whoever....

[rufus dog]

106. exactly

Obama can let them play out and in most cases blow up on the Republicans. Clinton's always have provided enough ammunition for the enemy to create damage.

[Waiting For Everyman]

109. Yours is the most important and interesting post I've read here in some time.

I started last night and have read the whole thread. Most of us who now oppose Hillary so strongly can empathize with how you feel now, because most of us at one time supported her and had our own turning points of disillusionment about her. It doesn't feel good at all. It feels like we have been played, because we have. She used the groundswell of support given to her as a screen, as a "get out of jail free card" to enable her to indulge her ambition in any way she chose to.

The "pay to play" between the State Dept. and the Clinton Foundation, done by both Clintons is an even worse scandal which will come out in the near future. So just letting you know, there is more and worse to come.

I am also very angry at the Dem party and her promoters in government because they knew all about this, and covered it up. That is why it wasn't reported sufficiently by media sources which grass roots Dems would have listened to long before this. The Dem party has allowed her to run under false pretenses! Voters should have been made aware of this fully, in order to make an informed decision during the election. To me, they are guilty of fraud of the worst kind, right along with her.

Thank you for being thoughtful and honest, and for sharing your thoughts with us. It is refreshing to see an act of character on this board. You have done an important thing today.

The thinking process you have gone through is what we need so many more to do and in a hurry, before this election gets caught up in the train wreck that Hillary and the Dem PTB have put us in. I suppose their thinking was that in order to save ourselves we would be forced to save her too, making us complicit in this tawdry mess (her wrongheaded behavior is like a black hole, that has sucked more and more people into it to cover it up.)

If that was the calculation that was made, it's pretty cynical.

My hat is off to you, madaboutharry! You're an outstanding DUer in my book!


p.s. I'm very sorry to see the block by Hillary Group. That mindset of blanket denial of anything negative about Hillary is how we all came to this dangerous and awful point in this election, with time running out. I hope you will post a lot in GDP, as I'm very interested in what you have to say after this point.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

115. I have said the same for a long time.

Almost ALL of the His/Her "Clinton scandals" are SELF-INFLICTED.

They do NOT help themselves with their actions, and we could be looking at a President Trump because of it.

[saidsimplesimon]

116. Thank you madaboutharry, recommended!

This was the most civil, enlightening and moving discussion that I've read on DU.

I can relate to the pain of disappointment. I was not that crazy about John Edwards. I admired Elizabeth Edwards so much I was willing to overlook my suspicions that John Edwards was a narcissist. Then came President Obama, who I supported 100%, still do. I would still rank him as one of our best Presidents, ever. However, I feel betrayed that he changed so many positions after he was elected.

I thought I had found a home many years ago on what was considered a progressive blog. "More and better Democrats" was the mantra, coalitions with NNN. I rarely post there anymore. It is OK by me to make a profit, but my love for the younger generation and our country is not for sale. My opinions are my own, no one should be attacked for sharing them.

Again, I thank you and all those who made this the best read on DU.

[Amaril]

122. Sorry, madaboutharry

It has to be difficult to be a Clinton supporter today.

I'm also sorry that you've gotten some "told you so!" and "you're getting what you deserve!" responses, and that the Clinton group has banished you. You didn't deserve any of that for simply speaking your mind truthfully.

[AmBlue]

125. I felt this way about John Edwards.

Different circumstances, but the betrayal of the voters' trust is exactly the same. It is devastating, and unbelievable that they would perpetrate such an act of fraud on the people who believe in them the most, and who have worked their hearts out for them.

Very sad...

[riversedge]

131. I do think her

experience has made her Leary of lots of things. It was a mistake and she has said that over and over. She has her faults and being overly per-cautious is one of them-sometimes good and other times not so good as in this case.

But, I trust that she will do what she says she will do for the people of this country--she will put her heart and soul into it. That I do know.

[MoonRiver]

136. Totally agree riverside!

Last edited Fri May 27, 2016, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

I have been angry about this unnecessary issue, but every single one of us, including all of our beloved progressive presidents, have made mistakes, some very serious ones. I don't consider this one extremely serious. And Hillary has weathered much worse attacks.

[LAS14]

152. Hear, hear!!!!!

[LAS14]

151. Hear, hear!!!!!!

[Marr]

157. You can continue to place your misguided trust in her if you like.

Seems more like an act of faith than anything rational, however.

She's already proved herself to be, at best, incompetent. At worst, utterly corrupt.

[Joob]

132. Okay since you're being honest I'll throw some honesty out here too

It bothers me Bernie hasn't released all his taxes yet. I mean, I dunno much about how long it will take to release all the taxes they want to see, and I know they probably having professionals look at them first. I get it. But it still bothers me they aren't released yet.

That being said, a lot more things bother me with Hillary.

[Schema Thing]

138. "Did her own life experience make her paranoid?"

Apparently not.

[rhett o rick]

139. She has always had an integrity problem. Her goal is clearly to amass as much wealth

as she can. $150,000,000 is a pretty good start and that doesn't even count her Retirement Foundation Plan.

[Warren DeMontague]

142. She has put us all in a potentially very bad position.

And she clearly pulled a whole bunch of strings to make sure the field was virtually empty against her, except for Sanders who hasnt been subject to the same sorts of intraparty pressures. Does anyone honestly believe that short of Martin O'Malley there was NO ONE who could have run a competitive race?

Her allies wanted to make damn sure that they werent taking any "chances" of losing it this time, and at the same time she had to know this could be a potential issue.

So now we are in a shitty place, and if she is in real trouble over this we are sort of screwed.

[Land of Enchantment]

143. Thank you for your honesty.

I am sorry for how it feels. I have been disappointed many times by various politicians for a myriad of reasons. It seems to be an inherent part of the equation. What you did took courage and I admire you for your willingness to put it all out there. and---I was blocked from the Hillary Group on my third post here. Some of those folks can be downright mean. You are welcome to join us.

[Demsrule86]

149. I don't really see the purpose in this...we have enough with the Berners

[Doctor_J]

173. This is bad news for everyone at du

I personally think it demonstrates that the party needs to regroup. It's a terrible time to have to do that, but as a functioning entity we've been in a death spiral for years. No focus, no message, no constituencies. If we can somehow survive this election now some serious retooling should start.

[slipslidingaway]

174. Thank you for your honesty ...

and courage in posting.

Sorry you are feeling let down and also that you were banned from the Hillary group after this post.