2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe private server motivation is not hard to figure out.
Hillary required and felt entitled to conduct her business without being overly scrutinized. She is simply not clean enough in her dealings to withstand full scrutiny.
It isn't about Yoga, no.
If I had to guess, I would say it is more likely about quid pro quo type behavior linked to Clinton Foundation. These things are usually about money and influence at some point.
She built the system that she thought would give her the time, excuse and opportunity to delete mails that she did not want to be seen. It is why she mixed business mails and personal mails -so that she could delete at her own judgment under the excuse of them being "personal".
It did not work out well for her because she was given bad advice and she underestimated the ability of cloud backup systems to save her mail (not to mention the receivers having copies).
Like most scandals of this type, the cover up only becomes clear in retrospect because these things unwind slowly do to the recalcitrance of the person under investigation. All the signs, all the lies and deceptions that Hillary has engaged in when discussing this publicly indicate this type of slow, slow creeping revelation of more and more dirt.
That is why nominating her is such a very bad idea. We have not yet seen the bottom of the pit here. More and more will be revealed and it will really hurt our chances of beating Trump. This is like providing Trump with a constant supply of fuel for the GE. We are now facing our last opportunity to avoid this slow-motion train wreck. She is under investigation by the FBI. What more warning signs do we need that we are making a bad choice -even strictly from the POV of politics.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)with the SOS job since she had NO experience to be a SOS.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)I don't see him resisting the temptation to "help".
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)This is just going to be one big dripping faucet.
This just smells like Watergate. The signs were there before the Rep convention in '72, but they nominated Nixon anyway and put the country through hell for two more years.
Nobody wants to go through that again. Hillary was on the Watergate team and she is supposed to be smart and Bill's supposed to be smarter. Perhaps they thought that they knew everything and could outsmart everyone. Doesn't look like that now.
Totally agree, although the pace has really picked up on media disclosures, so maybe the whole thing is going to move faster than Watergate.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)until the dam breaks either by an indictment or through the Enquirer a la John Edwards. Then there will be a Katrina-like storm surge of a flood, and the Clintons will be in the 9th ward.
I wish that I could convince myself otherwise, but I can't.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)I think it's too late for her to withdraw for "health reasons".
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)She could withdraw now for any reason. I don't know what would happen to her pledged delegates, but the super delegates could do what they wanted. If Hillary should withdraw before the convention, and Bernie doesn't get the nod, there will be hell to pay in Philadelphia.
The last time that there was a complete meltdown at the Dem convention, we ended up with the first Nixon administration. I don't want to repeat that with Trump.
Hillary will not withdraw, and I doubt that Bill could convince her of it even if it risked the both of them ending up in the slammer. Not even the thought of Bill passing to the great unknown in a federal penitentiary will get her to stop. Obama could tell her that he's washing his hands of her and she wouldn't go. She's probably been waiting for this since she was 6, and she won't let anything stop her.
I just don't see a good end to this.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)and 24/7 media saturation would drastically speed things up so we're not faced with a full fledged convention meltdown, but it's looking doubtful.
Seems a huge gamble for everybody.
And of course Hillary and Bill are gambling the shoe drops after the convention. <smh>
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)This one might be different.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Interesting times
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Crazy conspiracy theories will NOT get Bernie nominated. It is insulting how some people refuse to acknowledge Hillary's stong primary victory.
Bernie has a lot of scandals that can and would e used agianst him in a primary
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The republicans are just dying to dig into that if the FBI doesn't. The whole relationship doesn't pass the smell test.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)Bob41213
(491 posts)That's the only convenience involved. Anything else is a lie.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)the server setup more quickly. It was about getting stuff done.
Bob41213
(491 posts)She figured she'd setup a private email like Bush had so she could hide stuff from the little people. That's what it was.
Why use a private server if it's about convenience? Do you think that's the first thing a person who has no knowledge of computers is going to think?
"Hey Huma, why don't you call up Pagliano and see if he can reconfigure this Windows server to run Exchange for me. Make sure it's got a webmail interface. And make sure he'll do it for $5k or less."
If it was convenience "to have email that just worked," go get a fucking gmail account.
babylonsister
(171,074 posts)Seeinghope
(786 posts)She could have used her server that she had at home with her blackberry for her personal business.
She could have used the SD system with a different blackberry with the assistance of her SD assistants that are there to assist her....like they are supposed to do.
She is comfortable using a blackberry? She could have just stuck with the blackberry and had 2 separate accounts using just her blackberry or just getting another dedicated blackberry for the SD. Simple and efficient AND even more important honest, above board and transparent.
brush
(53,792 posts)You're right in the loop, huh so you know exactly what happened?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)up to.
Her dealings with Blumenthal were, obviously, not kosher.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Logically, if there was any sort of grand scheme going on here involving bribes, payoffs and underhanded deals, would that business be done completely anonymously without real names? Honestly, if she was really doing anything she would not do it on an email account that was so connected to her.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)by a very articulate partisan. Obviously, you know this case as well as anyone I know, but beyond pointing out that even Clinton acknowledges a mistake, I can't find much there. Sure, it might have something to do with the Clinton Foundation or it might not have had anything to do with the Clinton Foundation. If I am trying to evaluate a candidate for president, of what value are speculative mights? You very liberally sprinkle provocative terms like quid pro quo, bad advice, scandals, cover up, recalcitrance, revelation and train wreck over your speculative claims, but where are the facts?
Why not grab everybody's attention by beginning with a description of the significant actual damage that was done to either the country or to some person. See, if we begin with a description of the massive harm that has occurred, we will be better able to uncover the causes of that harm - we will know what to look for in the events that preceded the harm.
Anyway, that's the problem that I am having with this email thing. I have no doubt that Clinton and probably a dozen other people made one or more mistakes in this or any other undertaking, but absent some significant actual damage to the country or to some person, I cannot justify a disqualification of her candidacy because I know that each and every one of these candidates have made mistakes, have crossed legal boundaries and yes, have lied to other people in their lives. Please, show me the actual damage that you have found. Let me measure the significance of that damage for myself.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It will be the work of historians to uncover.
We are seeing this thing through a glass darkly, as they say. So speculation is inevitable and -on a Discussion Board - pretty much what you should expect to see.
Thank you for calling me "articulate". If I had been a person of color, some might attack you for being racist, though, for using that term.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)but I do remember that situation. I think Biden was describing Obama, if I recall correctly.
Anyway, thanks for the response. I'm not ready to speculate about actual damage that might have been caused, but I'll be open to learning about it if it emerges.
broiles
(1,368 posts)broiles
(1,368 posts)Tal Vez
(660 posts)You just keep doing the best that you can.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The crazy mess is waiting to emerge.
Right now HRC has had to walk back significant parts of her statements as they've been exposed as lies. The heavier parts - the IC IG and FBI reports will provide even more fodder illustrating her terrible judgement.
Within 20 years we'll know the actual damage to real assets. This is how these scandals unfold.
Early days but what we know already says her judgement is awful.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)when people figure it out. However, if you're right about it taking 20 years, I may not be able to keep that promise.
brush
(53,792 posts)by the FBI in a late Friday afternoon document dump as is always done when little media attention is wanted.
There's nothing to it, just as in White Water, Vince Foster, Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi, and all the rest.
We need to stop carrying repug water for them.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)And, I'm going to be voting in November based upon what I know then.
Seeinghope
(786 posts)Faith in getting information from the government than I do. They might not cover somebody's ass because if they didn't their ass would be on the line or it would make them look bad.
Like somebody said in another post just because you don't get into an accident or kill somebody when driving drunk, when get pulled over and you get caught driving drunk you get fined, maybe even thrown in jail. You broke the law.
We already know that Hillary Clinton was told that Sid was not to be an advisor to Hillary Clinton while she was Secretary of State. We also know that she ignored what the President told her. Did Sid say anything to anybody or was his computer...phone...hacked? If it was, what was the outcome and would we ever be told?
How many times have we heard about something that had taken place years before that, was, At the time hidden by Government officials because it was so alarming to be released at the time? It happens and more than we think. So just because we haven't heard about something bad coming out of this doesn't mean that it didn't or that it won't.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)Often we never learn about things that we never learn about.
The problem is that I just voted and my vote was based upon what I knew at the time. And, in November, I am going to vote again and, again, I will vote based upon what I know at that time.
See, I can't base my vote upon things that I don't know because, as you say, I don't know what I don't know.
2cannan
(344 posts)(possibly slightly more--31,000) personal emails to work emails (30,000) is amazing! I don't think we taxpayers' got our money's worth. Although maybe there was slightly less death and destruction in the world because of those 30,000+ emails about yoga, weddings, and funerals, etc.!
I have no doubt that many of those "personal" emails are State Dept. and Clinton Foundation-related emails.
Amishman
(5,557 posts)31k emails is far more than anyone would have for purely 'personal' business. There was a lot of SOMETHING going through that email account.
amborin
(16,631 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)She knew exactly what she was doing...she just isn't internet savvy enough to know enough to protect herself.
MFM008
(19,818 posts)thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)Everyone knew that Hillary was gonna go for the White House in 2016.....She needed protection from the Right Wing Nut Job hacking brigade that would intercept, erase, and make up correspondence to set her up for just this contingency during an election.
The Clintons have been harassed and trailed by the republican hell hounds forever and they're not going to stop. The right wing still have nothing but inflated balloons of empty to show for their efforts.But if they can scream loud enough, even people on the left will think there's some truth.......It's disgusting demagoguery they've been doing to Obama for his entire term as President, and trust me, they would do the same to whatever Democrat wins the White House.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)State Department server? n/t
thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)But considering that it took a subpoena to get any info from Hillary's private server, then yeah, it was more secure than the State Department Server........Just sayin'
Arazi
(6,829 posts)You don't really believe that do you?
Really?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)As SoS are not part of the public record? That's what the FOIA lawsuit was necessary, because NONE of her emails were archived at State for public review. Instead they were sitting on a private server in a house basement in Chappaqua (or at a data company in Colorado or a server farm in NJ...I can't keep it straight). What she didn't count on was the emails were also sitting in the cloud since the CO company backed it up there.
The FOIA lawsuit is what caused this whole mess to blow up. The ironic thing is that in attempting to protect herself, she instead incriminated herself.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)which HRC claims she didn't know when she was taking all that Wall St money for her 'speeches'.
Yes, those words. She had words. Beautiful, and apparently, quite expensive words.
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)the Clinton reality, loyalty and defense. I used to believe in the 'RW conspiracy' bluff for years until evidence broke through the spell. This paragraph completely demonstrates how the Clintons have CONNED (short for CONfidence) people into filtering out and disregarding ALL negative information about them and assuring their blind loyalty:
'The Clintons have been harassed and trailed by the republican hell hounds forever and they're not going to stop. The right wing still have nothing but inflated balloons of empty to show for their efforts.But if they can scream loud enough, even people on the left will think there's some truth.......It's disgusting demagoguery they've been doing to Obama for his entire term as President, and trust me, they would do the same to whatever Democrat wins the White House.'
First the investigations are not partisan, and second HRC has made enemies on all sides of the spectrum, not just RW. Her recent actions during this election has alienated her from the left, and the RW will come out of the woodwork to vote against her.
Thirdly, the RW conspiracy theory is based on outdated 90s reality, where right and left were more clearly defined. Third Way Neo Liberals invading the Democratic Party and Neo Conservatives invasion of the Republican Party have reflected the 1% corporate class takeover of the people's representation on both sides.
Loyalty is a fine quality, I have been extremely so, which makes me compassionate to people that demonstrate this, it is admirable. But confidence people USE fierce loyalty to their advantage, and at a certain point we have to step back and ask ourselves if we have been conned and taken advantage of. It hurts, betrayal. And this is why I am angry at these people--they know EXACTLY what they are doing, taking advantage of people's loyalty and ideals.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)and is backed up by a dem nominated judge who supports JW deposing Clinton SD staff. And JW apparently plans to publish the transcripts of each deposition asap.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)yep.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)So, your opinion makes it fact? Not hardly. Most of the ammo Trump is being given is coming directly from Bernie and his followers. The FBI is pretty much done with it. The desperation of Bernie and his followers for some FBI indictment of Hillary has gone beyond weird to simply funny.