Why HRC is bad for black people, the shorter version

[Rebkeh]

There’s just no nice way to say it and it since it must be said..

She protects the beneficiaries of division, racial division included. She supports the very reasons race was invented in the first place, she’s got their backs, not ours. While she may create policies that target structural racism, Missy H does this while America morphs into a country of worsening class division. Poor black people are not going to benefit because opportunities are not enough to level the playing field for them. On the contrary, her friends up top need their chattel in jails. Latte liberals are the new "moderate" republican.

To go one further, who better than Trump to scare people into voting against their own interests? The Clintons didn’t just do their part in co-opting the Democratic Party with neoliberalism, they use GOP tactics to keep the co-option going.

Not a damn thing would change under another Clinton presidency, just more of the same with new labels, new faces and more races.

The second she doesn’t need us anymore, she’ll disappear. Count on it. You know how that go.

I am prepared for her to prove me wrong.

[PeaceNikki]

1. You can stop lecturing PoC. They have already overwhelmingly voted for her.

And you'll see that in DC as well.

[senz]

4. No lecture there. The OP is pointing out something important.

[PeaceNikki]

7. For what purpose? To tell PoC that she knows what's best for them more than they do?

[840high]

43. For what purpose? For truth.

[Demsrule86]

68. How arrogant is it to substitute your judgement for someone elses...

Such arrogance and so condescending...no wonder POC do not like Bernie for the most part.

[840high]

73. You're doing the same.

[Demsrule86]

85. Not doing tht at all

Pointing out what poster is doing in a shorter version an article that has been hidden before. This is an attack post.

[rock]

86. No. That's not True

Demsrule86 is saying that PoC should decide who's best for Poc.

[PeaceNikki]

87. codswallop. The OP is opinion. And I again ask, at this juncture, what is the OP trying to do?

The primaries are over. It's Clinton v Trump. Is she trying to convince a large segment of the Democratic base to not vote for our nominee?

[notadmblnd]

107. The post does not address any specific group of people

so the poster was not "whitesplaining" to people of color.

[rbrnmw]

19. SMDH

It never stops

[Herman4747]

20. What makes you think her post is only for PoC? n/t

[PeaceNikki]

21. The title?

[Herman4747]

32. White people have no interest in why...

...Hillary's bad for black people? What led you to this conclusion?

[uponit7771]

63. Strawman, no one said ONLY but you

[Herman4747]

65. Take a deep look at post #1. Look carefully.

How many total groups of people do you find mentioned?

[uponit7771]

66. Yeap, no "only" there... thx for playin

[Herman4747]

93. No "only" there, because there's only one group mentioned!!! n/t

[Hiraeth]

99. I think I can decide for myself when I am being lectured. TYVM.

[Ken Burch]

115. The OP is a POC.

That puts the OP in a somewhat different light.

[geek tragedy]

2. You chose some pretty awesome timing for this post nt

[PeaceNikki]

69. No joke. Immediately after the most powerful black man on the planet endorsed her.

I'm sure the OP knows better than Obama.

[senz]

3. She has shown it over and over again ever since she was FLOTUS.

[apcalc]

8. You make alot of assertions

Wothout evidence.

[Florencenj2point0]

5. this thread is racist and offensive

you are saying that all the other Black people are too stupid to vote for their own best interests. You should delete this.

[JCanete]

36. You are inferring that, it is not what the post is saying. What is offensive is trying to render

all attacks against Clinton and her history and current policies on race and economics as untouchable, because somehow attacking them means that you are calling people of color stupid or ignorant. The truth is people do vote against their self-interest all the time, which is why we got Reagan, And W.

And in this primary, there was a concerted effort to ensure that that happened this time, by successfully painting Sanders as a candidate for white males. Propaganda does work, especially against an unknown quantity. People knew Clinton. They knew what they were getting. When the first thing you hear about a candidate is that he is an old white guy who is popular with white men, and you're hearing that from other democrats and national black leaders are saying things like "I never met the man" its not an unreasonable thing to assume the worst and not give the candidate a second look. We all have a certain amount of bandwidth, so we use a lot of shorthand to make our decisions. That's hardly an indictment of black people. Its an indictment of the party that sold the lie.

[840high]

74. ...!100++++

[GoneFishin]

109. Creating a wedge issue out of race is a Republican tactic. But the Dem Party is so far to the right

that it is no surprise that they have stooped to this low point.

[Califonz]

80. Thoughtcrime!

Suppressing free speech, just another day at DU.

[annavictorious]

82. This OP is a prime example of how

Sanders supporters damaged his run and ruined his chances to expand his base.

[bigtree]

6. what

...ever.

[jzodda]

9. "I am prepared for her to prove me wrong."

So please give her the opportunity to do just that! You will never know if that Trump wins.

[Andy823]

10. Another flame bait post

I can't wait till shit like this will get people banned.

[leftofcool]

11. Oh boy! Why are we still allowing racist threads?

[JCanete]

28. What is racist about this thread? People vote against their best interests all the time, across

the spectrum of race. Its just that most of us who do aren't in the top 1%. Its ridiculous to try to teflon somebody and her policies by saying attacking them is attacking the intelligence of those who have voted for her.

[840high]

75. Nothing racist.

[MFM008]

12. Just days left

For this.
That is all.

[Quayblue]

13. Bullshit.

[Renaissance Man]

14. I agree, wholeheartedly.

As a person of color (black male) who voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and this was before she ran for the nomination in 2008, considering she supported welfare reform and the 1994 Crime Bill, while she dog whistled during the 2008 primary, and while she used race to divide (with John Lewis and Delores Huerta) during this primary.

I don't forget easily. Because of that, I didn't vote for her in 2008, didn't vote for her in this primary, and I will not be voting for her in the general election. I'm sure there are some third party candidates that align with my values. Jill Stein comes to mind.

... AND I DON'T CARE WHO LIKES IT OR WHO WANTS TO ENGAGE IN "BUT TRUMP" SCARE TACTICS.

I also don't care that President Obama just endorsed her. I will not partake in pretending that Hillary cares about our community. She doesn't. AT ALL.

[geek tragedy]

15. that's nice. we look forward to hearing from you in 8 years nt

[TwilightZone]

18. "she supported...the 1994 Crime Bill" - the one Sanders voted for?

That crime bill?

I'm guessing you don't see the irony here.

[Renaissance Man]

24. The 1994 Crime Bill

Oh, you're referring to the 1994 Crime Bill that had the Violence Against Women provision attached to it. The provision which, if he would have voted against, would have made you call him a raging sexist, misogynist, a "bro," or whatever other nonsensical crap you can muster.

You mean this video:

|

Yes, that bill.

[TwilightZone]

27. So, you're criticizing her for supporting it, but you're ok with Sanders actually voting for it.

Gotcha. And you don't see the problem with that?

I wouldn't have called Sanders anything for voting for the Crime Bill. Nearly everyone supported it. Unlike you, however, I'm not selective in my outrage and I understand context. I also understand that hindsight is 20/20.

The fact that you use it as a tool against Clinton but as a plus for Sanders is some impressive cognitive dissonance.

[Renaissance Man]

30. Cognitive dissonance.

Actually, there's nothing about my post that is remotely dissonant. I understand how the legislative process works and how amendments can be placed on bills that place elected officials in the position where they are hamstrung to vote for one provision (in this instance, for the Violence Against Women provision of the 1994 Crime Bill), while being vehemently against other provisions.

I think the video speaks volumes of where Bernie's character has always been, as it relates to his position on that bill.

Now, about those alleged "super predators" in the community ...

[TwilightZone]

38. Attacking Clinton for supporting a bill that Sanders voted for is the very definition of

cognitive dissonance.

"vehemently against other provisions"

Then he shouldn't have voted for it. Giving him a pass for *knowingly* voting for a bill he knew was problematic while criticizing Hillary Clinton 20 years of hindsight later is the very definition of cognitive dissonance.

Don't like cognitive dissonance? Well, hypocrisy is just as accurate. Better?

[Number23]

101. NAILED it. It was so horrible but somehow the person who allegedly voiced support for it is 1000

times worse than the person who actually voted for it.

[LanternWaste]

55. Your creative rationalizations are bemusing.

Your creative rationalizations are bemusing. It certainly allows you the convenience of holding individuals to two different standards.

[jack_krass]

22. Sure she was a racist in 2008, but like many other issues, she's "evolved", so, no worries*

*intended as constructive criticism

[840high]

76. She evolves constantly. How

can I ever believe her?

[jack_krass]

89. I don't know*

*Intended as constructive criticism

[Todays_Illusion]

23. Thanks for your perfectly stated belief, I agree with you.

I had forgotten how shamefully the HC campaign used John Lewis. Dolores Huerta sold out long ago.

[geek tragedy]

31. Dolores Huerta sold out?

LMAO.

[Hekate]

97. And "John Lewis was shamefully used." The disrespect from that bunch never ceases to amaze

SMH

[840high]

50. Thank you.

[atomingai]

53. Agreed.

[Herman4747]

110. Yeah, I'm thinking about Dr. Jill Stein too. Hey, she's honest, unlike Hillary

[TwilightZone]

16. "Missy H"?

Ok.

[workinclasszero]

17. This screed is trash worthy today

Ban worthy in 6 days.

[yardwork]

25. Not sure why you are posting this now. What do you suggest? A vote for Trump?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how Trump will improve things.

[TeacherB87]

26. Yet again

more people telling black people they made the wrong choice and that they made the wrong choice.

This kind of condescension is precisely why, in part, PoC did not vote for Bernie in the first place.

If you care about justice then have a plan for how you are going to work to push her administration in a progressive direction.

Because standing on a pedestal of privilege and pontificating to PoC comes off as reactionary, not progressive.

[Lizzie Poppet]

33. Um...maybe have a look at the OP's .sig?

[TeacherB87]

37. What about it?

[Lizzie Poppet]

39. Never mind.

One learns quickly to identify lost causes. Carry on.

[TeacherB87]

51. Thanks for caring enough to post initially but then not enough to follow up.

That makes a lot of sense. As for your condescending comment about me being a "lost cause," I hope that makes you feel better about yourself. You don't know me. You could have taken the small effort of letting me know what you are talking about, but I read the OP's entire profile AND .sig and don't know what point your trying to make.

Next time, maybe you should just not reply in a situation like this. Do you enjoy this sort of exchange? I won't assume you enjoy being condescending to people because I don't know you. See how that works?

[Lizzie Poppet]

52. I thought you were being disingenuous.

That's because the clue in that .sig as to just why your upbraiding the poster for "condescending" to people of color was ironic and off-target was about as obvious as a hippo in a tutu.

In fact, I'm still not convinced otherwise, so...bye, Felicia. Reply if you like; I won't see it.

[athena]

77. You know that being a member of a minority does not mean one cannot

discriminate against that minority, by definition?

If you really think that, you haven't read or thought much about sexism, racism, or any other kind of discrimination.

[Lizzie Poppet]

78. Of course.

I should think that's obvious.

[athena]

81. Then what is your point?

As far as I can tell, you've been suggesting, without coming out and saying it, that the OP cannot possibly be condescending toward people of color because s/he is a person of color.

[Spazito]

29. Geez...just geez.

[NurseJackie]

34. We know, we know ... you hate her SO-O-O much, it...it...it... flames...

[NCTraveler]

35. "She supports the very reasons race was invented in the first place" nt.

[PeaceNikki]

40. Wut????

Race was "invented"?

What the hell does this even mean??

[NCTraveler]

44. Maybe they will tell us. nt.

[PeaceNikki]

47. Thanks for pointing that part out. Missed it in the oceans of swill.

[Blue_Tires]

46. Forget it, the OP is rolling...

[gollygee]

70. I assume

It means this: http://www.bolshevik.org/1917/no12/no12capitalismandracism.html

And I do believe there is a strong relationship between racism and capitalism. What I don't understand is why this is the reason to vote against Hillary when literally every other president in US history has also been a capitalist. Even FDR. Why is it suddenly impossible to vote for a capitalist?

[Tarc]

41. We've heard variations of this lame argument since South Carolina

It flopped then, it flops now.

[uponit7771]

64. +1, they're doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results

[Blue_Tires]

45. "Who better than Trump to scare people into voting against their own interests?"

So now a vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote against my own interests?? I'm not trusted to know what's good for myself? You have a wonderful method of winning people over to your side...

So... Since you believe Clinton is so bad for everyone, I take it you're voting for Stein or Johnson or Trump?

[Gothmog]

48. There are good reasons why African Americans are not supporting Sanders

There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.

I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.

[yardwork]

61. As a white person living in the south, I tend to agree with this assessment.

Here in the south, the struggle for civil rights required survival in a hard, mean, life-threatening environment, and that struggle continues to this day. Black people survived and gained rights by forging very close bonds with one another and trusted allies. Once earned, a place at the table is a sacred trust. Perfection is not expected or demanded. Loyalty is.

Some of Bernie's white supporters never knew this, and others who should know it seem to have forgotten.

You can't waltz into the south and demand black people's vote and expect to get it. You have to be invited to the table, and that only happens after years of loyal, hard work.

The Clintons are imperfect. People get that. It's an imperfect world. But in the south, the new guy in town is going to be greeted with a a fair amount of polite skepticism. Especially if he seems to be just passing through.

[Sheepshank]

49. All that is missing are two words "Stockholm Syndrome"

And then your post would have come full circle.



Now where is that damned fly swatter.

[emulatorloo]

54. You nailed it.

[JSup]

56. The last line of your post

, while I disagree with the rest, shows that at least if you end up wrong you won't pretend not to be.

[yardwork]

57. Just out of curiosity - are any of the 15 people who recced this OP People of Color?

I don't recognize many of the 15 posters who recced this OP, and I don't recognize any of them as people who identify as Black or People of Color on DU. Just curious.

[oasis]

58. President Obama and the Congressional Black Caucus have HRC's

history available to them. They strongly disagree with you.

[obamanut2012]

59. lolz you guys!

[bravenak]

60. Figures. I knew immdiately wtf this would be

I guess tee em number number was busy, so it was your turn.

[rbrnmw]

79. is that just a lovely OP

[bravenak]

88. For sure. This one swears

[Number23]

103. "I guess tee em number number was busy, so it was your turn."

Damn, b. That was fucking brutal.

[bravenak]

105. This shit was wack!

[emulatorloo]

118. ...

[uponit7771]

62. Sigh, another "Hillary is Satan" post... why do the same thing over and over again and expect a .

... different result?

tia

[Demsrule86]

67. July 16th nt

[Demsrule86]

71. Same post...the longer version was hidden...why re-post? nt

[Beacool]

72. I respectfully disagree.

Missy H???? Really???

Why are you preemptively blaming Hillary for "worsening" class divisions? Did class divisions disappear under president Obama? Would they disappear if Sanders were to be president? I think that Sanders is well versed on economic inequality, but he's tone deaf to the inherit effect of racism and discrimination that AA and other people of color face in their daily lives. That's why he got so little support from them.

I don't see Hillary as one of those politicians who only shows up when they are up for reelection. I have been around Hillary, her staffers are a diverse group of people, unlike Sanders'. Notice who are some of her closest advisers, Cheryl Mills is near the top of her list. Also Maggie Williams.

[rock]

83. Bull malarkey

[jamese777]

84. Bernie Sanders won 1 state...

where the black population is at an equal or greater percentage than the black population nationally (13%).

Bernie Sanders won in Michigan (14% black) and he won by 1.5%. Hillary Clinton won in every other state that is at least 13% African American.

Obviously African American Democratic voters did not buy the OP's meme. I just don't see many African Americans accepting the proposition that a Donald Trump presidency will be better than a Hillary Clinton presidency

[Cheese Sandwich]

90. "I am prepared for her to prove me wrong. "

that's the best thing you could have said

[Hekate]

91. Are you, by any chance, black? If not, perhaps you should let the members of that demographic ...

...speak for themselves. As voters, they are by definition adults, and know their own lives better than anyone else.

Or do you perhaps subscribe to the notion that African Americans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome? I ask because that theory has come up here before.

Mmm-mm.

[Arazi]

95. Yes, Rebkeh is black as are others agreeing with her on this thread

[zappaman]

92. Lol!

[msanthrope]

96. Damn......where is the Zoolander car gif? nt

[Florencenj2point0]

94. the other thead was deleted I hope this one is too

still racist.

[Jamaal510]

102. Unfortunately,

this one was left up in a 1-6 vote. Next week can't get here soon enough.

[Number23]

106. Every black poster I see in this thread is like this

And there are at least five of us here.

[Squinch]

98. That is craptastic! Especially the "latte liberals" part! You sound just like Newt! Was that what

you were going for? NAILED it!

[Number23]

100. You've spent too much time in the Sanders group, I think

I've long thought you were an incredibly intelligent and gentle soul. This OP is completely beneath you.

She supports the very reasons race was invented in the first place, she’s got their backs, not ours.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

While she may create policies that target structural racism, Missy H does this while America morphs into a country of worsening class division.

Like I said, completely beneath you.

[Metric System]

104. We still doing this?

[jamese777]

108. I'm With Rebkeh

I'm voting for Trump. I'm sure he'll be good for HIS African Americans.
Donald loves me, this I know
Omarosa told me so
All the world to him belongs
They are weak, but he is strong
Yes Donald loves me
Yes Donald loves me
Yes Donald loves me
Omarosa told me so.

[Herman4747]

111. Where exactly does Rebkeh say she's voting for Trump?

[wildeyed]

112. Why lecturing black people about their best interest is bad, the shorter version.

Because they already voted and made it ABUNDANTLY clear which candidate they prefer. Being rude and condescending about it is not going to change that. In fact, it does the opposite by pissing people off and pushing them farther away from your candidate and views. It is massive, huge, ginormous amounts of fail, proved over and over during this primary, yet you want to do it some more.

[bravenak]

113. She's black too. But it seems she does not respect our choices as we do hers.

[Chitown Kev]

114. Isn't it about a year too late for this?

[bravenak]

116. Yep. I have no idea why this was even posted. It's been kinda over.

[wildeyed]

117. Ah, I guess I missed that.

Soooo tired last night while posting..... But still mystified as to why anyone would want to re-fight this particular issue.