Will Bernie become the next "liberal lion?"

[andym]

It's very clear to many progressives that the loss of Ted Kennedy, the "liberal lion," so early in Pres. Obama's term has had a profound influence on the the President, his accomplishments, and the Democratic Party. Kennedy was the most powerful link to the FDR/JFK/LBJ Democrats and he exerted tremendous influence in the Senate and on the President.

One can strongly speculate that the ACA would look very different had Kennedy lived (and was not sick) even one more year, as he would have fought for a public option and had enough influence to perhaps keep Lieberman and Nelson under control. Not only that he would have certainly influenced the President on many policies near and dear to the President: a carbon tax, stronger corporate regulations, living wage etc. Especially given that the President is a consensus seeker, it would have been more than useful to have such a strong voice as Kennedy on the Left.

Kennedy's death left a vacuum that no one has really filled. Sure there are great progressive senators like Warren, Boxer and Bernie, but they have not yet achieved anything close to the influence of Kennedy. Bernie now has achieved national recognition and prominence. He stands clearly on the same side of most issues as Kennedy and may be in a position to exert more influence on the Democratic Party to move it leftwards.

I think his desire to fight for what he believes in the Democratic Platform and to encourage young people to run for office is absolutely the right thing to do. He has clearly signaled that he will support the Democratic nominee for President, though the strongest partisans for Hillary's and Bernie's campaigns don't seen to register this-- they are both in denial. He is now trying to maximize his influence, perhaps to try to become a new progressive lion, and I hope he succeeds.

[NurseJackie]

1. Nope.

He's squandered that opportunity long ago.

[Ned_Devine]

2. One of these days you'll admit you don't know what you're talking about at all

[NurseJackie]

5. Why are you making it personal? Did I insult you?

You guys are really something, ya know that?

[Ned_Devine]

6. Every one of your posts is so negative and nasty that it's unbearable

[SFnomad]

10. Talk about negative and nasty ....

Post by Ned_Devine to NurseJackie:

One of these days you'll admit you don't know what you're talking about at all

[Chasstev365]

27. OH, NO YOU DIDN'T!

Could you be any more of a HIPOCRITE? Here is your last dig at me this AM:

Can't answer the question ... no matter how many different ways I ask it


You're in NO POSITION to call anyone nasty!

[SFnomad]

30. I asked you three different times ... and you avoided the question and deflected

you STILL haven't answered the question and I expect you never will.

[Chasstev365]

32. Am I in a fucking court of law? I don't have to answer anything!

Besides, your nasty smug response speaks for itself.

[SFnomad]

33. Speaking of nasty and smug ... what a piece of work you are

and you STILL haven't answered my question. And you're the one that dragged over here from another thread.

[Chasstev365]

34. When pushed, I push back!

[SFnomad]

35. You're the one being nasty and smug, all I've done is ask a question that I can't get answered

buh bye

[stonecutter357]

51. inb4hide!

[NurseJackie]

12. So, you and the Bernie camp have been such angels, eh?

[Ned_Devine]

18. I can't speak for them

I have on occasion let my emotions get the better of me. But every time I see one of your posts, it's antagonizing and nasty and I feel like no one ever calls you on it.

[Hekate]

31. Put her on Ignore and lower your blood pressure. It's really simple.

[NurseJackie]

37. On the bright side, it's clear that you're not stalking me throughout the site. :-P

... or you may be like a lot of people who tend to remember only the things that annoy you because they annoy you. It's hard to say for sure, but it's something for you to think about.

[Ned_Devine]

67. Case in point. Just more nastiness and slander

If there's a thread that I might be interested in, often times you are the first one to respond to it and you're usually taking a nice hot dump on it. If my noticing that is a form of "stalking" to you, you may need to look up the word. I could just as easily say that you're stalking Bernie posters and taking verbal dumps on all of their threads. But I'm not the type to accuse someone of stalking. I'll just say that you're the type that sees a parade and enjoys being a rain cloud over it.

[NurseJackie]

71. Look again ... you'll see I said that you were NOT stalking me, silly!

[Ned_Devine]

74. I thought it was sarcasm on your part. See? Now I'm on the defensive!

I don't want to argue with you. I'd like to think we could get along. I mean, you've obviously got a sense of humor with a name like NurseJackie

[NurseJackie]

83. It was a roundabout way of my saying ...

... if you actually *had* been "stalking" me, then you'd have seen that there's a lot more to me than meets the eye (depending on which post I happen to be replying to, and which forum I'm in) that's all. ~~ But yeah, I can see how if it was read with a sarcastic voice, it could be interpreted as being the opposite of what I actually wrote. I get that.

Maybe things will get better in a couple of days.

[Squinch]

78. Do you not get that every one of your posts to her has been antagonizing and nasty?

You guys just never stop with the projection.

[840high]

52. Yes - I agree.

[italiangirl]

58. Ned_Devine

I agree with you 100% regarding Nurse Jackie. Nurse Jackie, you are one of the reasons I was going to give up on DU tonight. You Hillary supporters are a viscous bunch of vile rhetoric. You sit here like fat cats waiting for the mouse to jump. I thought fight cats were left behind when you graduate from high school. You are all unrelenting attack dogs that have nothing to do but think up nasty posts. I am 85 years old and am appalled at your level of behavior. It is unbecoming and not worth my time to engage on DU anymore, never knowing what to expect from the ilks of you.

[leftofcool]

60. Use the ignore button! Good grief!

[NurseJackie]

72. Why are you making it personal?

[Squinch]

82. This swarm against you is one of the nastiest I have seen. And the head swarmer seems to think

he is the victim.

They are too damn much.

ETA: and you are handling it with more class than I have seen here in a long time, too.

[NurseJackie]

85. I guess I just have that effect on people. :-P

Things will get better in a couple of days.



@Alerter: This is the promotional graphic from season #1 of "Nurse Jackie" on Showtime. Oh, come on! It's funny because it's a play on words!

[Squinch]

86. LOL!

[Squinch]

77. Facts are hard.

[Major Nikon]

48. Results...

On Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:41 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

One of these days you'll admit you don't know what you're talking about at all
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2198482

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

It's just an insult on another poster. No discussion, no differing opinion. Just an insult.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:47 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerting this post is a joke
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Reasonable post, considering. n/t
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Little late to alert
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[Ned_Devine]

69. This isn't the type of post that should be alerted on

...but this is the state of life here now.

[Squinch]

80. Yes it is. It's a clear TOS violation. It's one of a string of creepy personal insults you have

dumped on another poster. Get a grip.

[stevenleser]

87. Yes it is. It is zero content and 100% a personal attack on another DUer.

That is exactly what should be alerted and hidden.

[Electric Monk]

68. Fuck the trolls. Obvious trolls are obvious. They deserve no respect. nt

[Ned_Devine]

70. True

[workinclasszero]

16. Agreed

[floriduck]

40. Elizabeth Warren was always very impressed with Teddy. Of anyone, she would most likely take

the nearest stance to Ted. She wrote about their meeting in her book and had great admiration for the man and his fighting spirit.

[NurseJackie]

42. I agree with you on that.

[floriduck]

43. That doesn't mean we have to be friends, does it?!

[NurseJackie]

44. We can just be acquaintances. I think that's safer.

[stonecutter357]

53. belvedere vodka and chambord on me....

[stonecutter357]

55. I hope he can ...

[John Poet]

62. People who have no use for a "Liberal Lion" really don't have a say

in it. I think that includes you.

[NurseJackie]

65. Oh brother! GMAFB

[floppyboo]

3. I think you'll like this vid from the Real News

[uponit7771]

4. We'll see during the off years if he goes into the background and sulks or makes a real difference

[Demsrule86]

7. NO...WAY too arrogant.

And Ted Kennedy was a team player. Bernie is in it for Bernie.

[andym]

9. Kennedy could be a team player, but he also ran an insurgent campaign against Carter in 1980

from the Left that split the party and probably helped usher in Reagan. Kennedy had enough self-confidence to stand up for what he believed, but it didn't always turn out well. another example is that we could have had a national healthcare system under Nixon that was stronger than the ACA, but Kennedy basically wanted single-payer and refused. Kennedy later admitted it was a huge mistake.

[Demsrule86]

13. and regretted it for the rest of his life and apologized for it both in person and in his book

He also blocked health care out of spite...my friend worked for him in later years and she said he still talked about how that was his biggest mistake. He was much younger than Bernie. Bernie doesn't have 30 years if he helps elect Trump.

[SheenaR]

20. Regret or not

delivered one of the all-time convention speeches. And it's a dream we still have yet to reach in our Party.

[Demsrule86]

45. Much good it did us as it lead to Reagan

and all the ensuing misery of the last 30 years.

[Dustlawyer]

19. I would say that your opinions are in the minority, even among HRC

supporters. They may prefer Hillary to Bernie, but most would admit Bernie is not in this for himself, just his beliefs which many of us share.

Just curious, do you ever post positive things about Hillary or just negative things about Bernie? I haven't seen much objectivity in your posts.

[Demsrule86]

46. I adore Hillary

I think she is the most qualified presidential candidate we have ever had...Obama is awesome too. I do not like Bernie...I used to but I do believe at this point Bernie is in it for himself. I have no idea what his beliefs are...he just has a few talking points he repeats endlessly...my issues as a woman do not interest him clearly.

[840high]

54. Hard to know what Hillary is for ...

she changes so often.

[geek tragedy]

8. No. Sanders is a complainer and a critic, not someone who does the hard work

of getting legislation passed.

Kennedy formed strong relationships and friendships even with members of the Republican party. Sanders doesn't even do that with members of the Democratic party.

[kstewart33]

47. So true. Kennedy worked both sides of the aisle effectively.

He had his problems as a young man, but he matured and gained wisdom especially in his work in Congress.

Bernie's rep in Congress is that he is a loner, and isn't someone who is comfortable with compromise.

If you can't compromise, you can't get anything done in Congress.

[MineralMan]

11. Not really. Ted Kennedy was a powerful Democrat.

His power came from making strong alliances within and beyond the party. Bernie Sanders is an iconoclast, working essentially on his own. There is a huge difference between Bernie Sanders and the late Ted Kennedy. A Yuuuuge difference!

[pandr32]

14. Sen. Ted Kennedy was able to get along well with other senators

He wasn't only a gifted orator whose senate speeches were well received, he listened to his colleagues and took their concerns seriously, and he did his homework on every issue--learning all the ins and outs. He was not only a "liberal lion" but he was able to work with those across the aisle to get things done. His skill set, values. and personality places him in a class of very few--certainly not Sanders.

[MariaThinks]

15. No chance. He is too self absorbed and too much of a lone wolf to ever become a lion

at this point, he's going to be forgotten.

I hope he doesn't become a ralph nader.

[randome]

17. 25 years in the Senate and hardly anyone knew who he was until recently. So...no.

[tonyt53]

21. Been very involved in politics for many years and until two years ago I never heard of him

But when you say "free" it all changes.

[randome]

23. Not only that but he is our only hope!

Elizabeth Warren accomplished more in the Senate than Sanders. I would love for her to be VP. Obama showed how much can still get done from the Executive Office.

[SheenaR]

26. lol

she has been in three less years than him. Wow.. She's really done a number on him.

My goodness... Another line you have been dropping everywhere

Edit: I just saw your other reply below... Thanks for the recognition lol

[SheenaR]

24. Ahh haven't heard the Republican "free stuff" meme in a bit

Cool story. It's called basic rights owed to Americans at birth. Like the rest of the developed world.

And you can't be that involved if you never heard of him until two years ago. Love him or hate him, those in the know know who the heck Bernie Sanders is.

[SheenaR]

22. You keep saying this

He has been in the Senate for 9 years. Please stop saying this everywhere and that nobody respects him in the Senate after 25 years. Trying to help.

[randome]

25. Crap! No one called me on this until now. You're right, he's been a Congressman for 25 years.

A senator for only 9 years. My main point still stands, though. He's no Kennedy-esque figure.

Thanks for the correction.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Considering most of the competition he's already got it locked.

[WhiteTara]

29. I sincerely doubt it.

He has almost used up his 15 minutes and unless he congratulates and endorses the Democratic presidential nominee, he will drop into obscurity.

If you think there should be a "lion" it would be the "lioness" Elizabeth Warren.

[okasha]

39. Exactly. It's going to be a Lioness.

[Hekate]

36. No. That would take character traits he has never demonstrated, sad to say.

His life has been that of a self-righteous gadfly who cannot compromise to achieve a goal.

Ted Kennedy could and did compromise and reach across the aisle in order to move his/our goals forward over his long career. He'd have been under the DU bus so fast it would make your head spin if he were alive and working today.

[MyNameGoesHere]

38. Maybe liberal Tigger

lion is a stretch.

[zappaman]

41. who?

[SaschaHM]

49. No. Elizabeth Warren will.

Ted Kennedy was beloved and could rally the votes behind him that he needed to get things passed. This has been a bruising primary and I doubt Sanders will have the necessary relationships to get things done in the manner that Teddy Kennedy could. Do I think Bernie is interested in mending those fences with the democratic caucus that will allow him to have an influential role? Not at all.

[XRubicon]

50. NO!

He is no Ted Kennedy.

He doesn't know how to build consensus outside his cult.

[stonecutter357]

56. progressive lion of the senate.

[XRubicon]

57. By himself

Independent.

[Agnosticsherbet]

59. Sen Kennedy worked well with others.

He had strong ties with all the movers and shakers. He was well liked. Even his enemies respected him.

Sanders foes not have reputation of that type.

Given more time, I think Warren will be the lion of the Senate.

[Generic Brad]

61. Sanders! Party of one.

Your table is ready.

Nope. He needs a larger coalition than the occupy crowd.

[riderinthestorm]

63. Yes if he wants that title. Mostly I want him to rise above even that

I think his movement transcends traditional binary politics.

He's now too "big" for the Senate imo.

Go Bernie go!!

[Tarc]

64. One of the hallmarks of Ted Kennedy's tenure was working across the aisle

Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 08:37 AM - Edit history (1)

sometimes with those who where his ideological opposite. Sanders...and especially his followers...display no such aptitude for such reach-outs. He and Hillary agree on ~90% of the issues at hand and they savage her mercilessly.

[wyldwolf]

81. ^^ THIS ^^

Bernie followers lose their minds when Hillary is even polite to a Republican.

[Gothmog]

66. Nope

There is no way that Sanders will be given this honor. Sanders has not earned it

[SidDithers]

73. No...nt

Sid

[La Lioness Priyanka]

75. No. Had he had influence among democrats he would have that role already

[Gothmog]

76. Sanders is not in the same league as Ted Kennedy

The concept that Sanders could be compared to Ted Kennedy is wrong

[gollygee]

79. I'm afraid he's losing his influence as time goes on

I was worried that he would lose influence if he didn't get out when he was on top. I don't know what's going to happen, except that he will have less influence than he might have had, and the longer he pretends he still has a chance, and the loonies some of his supporters get, the less influence he will have.

[Squinch]

84. If it was going to happen it would have happened a long time ago.

[WhiteTara]

88. No.

[That Guy 888]

89. If the replies in this thread are any guide, he won't have much influence in the Clinton Party

Among Democratic voters who wonder when the party decided to go to the right of center-right, his influence may continue to grow. I'm hoping he will outdo Dean in organizing Democratic Progressives and liberals who don't like the DLC philosophy¹. Unlike the people drinking Beltway Brand Kool-Aid, I know Sanders isn't doing this for his ego.









¹Yes technically the DLC no longer exists, but the attitude and the participants are both still major components of the Clinton Party.

[Orsino]

90. The Establishment is unlikely to label him as such.

Bernie's betting on the inevitability of revolution, if if that revolution keeps growing, it won't be hailing Sanders as some sort of old-money nostalgia candidate heavily compromised by Big Money and personal indiscretions.

He's not that sort of senator.

[msanthrope]

91. What the fuck has he been waiting on? nt