2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWarning: The Handwringers Will Be Out In Force Soon
It happens like clockwork in every election cycle. Early July, there is a lull in the political campaigns. The excitement of the primaries is long gone, the VP selections and conventions are weeks off, people are going on their summer vacations and planning their 4th of July BBQs, and the political rallies/major speeches are nonexistent. The political season goes dormant for a week or two, and invariably the polls tighten a bit as most people stop paying attention for a short period of time.
It happened in 2008. Obama was up by 6.9 points in the averages around June 25th, 2008. By July 12th, he was down by a 3.5 point lead.
It also happened in 2012. At the end of June, Obama had roughly a 3 point lead over Romney. By July 15th, he was down to a roughly 1 point lead in the averages.
And, it will probably happen again this year. In fact, Clinton's average has gone down roughly 1 point, maybe slightly more in the last week or so. And just like 2008 and 2012, expect the worry warts and the handwringers to come out in force to tell us why we are all doomed, that we picked the wrong candidate, that the end is nigh but I implore you, don't let their needless anxiety negitively affect you and don't let it ruin your time with your friends and loved ones.
Everything little thing is going to be alright.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)This could sink the whole campaign!
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)The pugs just got burned on the Benghazi investigation (again), people are going to roll their eyes if they start calling for investigations or anything. Give it 2 days and only the freepers will still be talking about it.
Don't think so.
that's what they say about EVERYTHING.
BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I was really scared and could have used reassurance. Then McCain said he was suspending his campaign to fly back to Washington and take care of mess his campaign's financial advisor helped create; and George Will of all people, said Obama seemed more Presidential. Then, I relaxed more. In 2012, there was never a blip in my emotions.
However, in 2008 and 2012, Trump was not the Republican presumptive nominee. If Democrats can win this one, America must be just one big insane asylum.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)Even if the polls are close come election day (I doubt they will be) Trump will have no GOTV operation. His people won't be registering voters, they won't be getting them out for early voting, they won't get them rides on election day and target groups to make sure they turnout. That will probably cost him several points in the final results right there.
But with that being said, Clinton is out performing Obama's polls from 2008. I feel a landslide is coming. Yes, yes a lot can happen and we need to act like we are down by 10 points and blah blah blah but from everything I am seeing, the GOP will be crushed in this election.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)up a nail-biter even if it turns out it wasn't really close, but we're doing good. Merrily, did you mean to insert a "can't" in your last sentence? If so, I certainly agree.
Doctor Jack, thanks for the info. I love seeing the bigger patterns our actions are part of.
JustAnotherGen
(31,839 posts)Young guys out with a table in the county seat of a rural red district in NJ on Saturday night. She is leaving nothing to chance.
charlyvi
(6,537 posts)It's too late now to build an effective one.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)The one group of thinkers that has been completely wrong this election cycle are the "sure bet" folks. Literally nothing has happened the way they thought. Even Nate Silver got blown out repeatedly in the primaries.
The thing about elections is that anyone can win one. Nothing is ever in the bag.
And the fact that candidates once separated by miles draw closer together before a big vote is not an illusion. Sometimes the underdog catches up. Sometimes the pundits are wrong.
It's not "handwringing." It is a reflection of the reality that elections are uncertain, shifting things. Ask Britain.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)The anxiety I see right in front of me is that Trump has defied all that is known about politics and that it is impossible to predict the outcome. Even if he is 10 points behind on Nov 7th, he could very well win in a landslide and in fact, a Trump win may be inevitable because reality is no longer what we thought it was.
But the new reality doesn't fit into actual reality. A few pundits said that Trump could never win the nomination, sure, but that isn't what the math said.
Some self proclaimed experts merely said that the polls had to be wrong during the entire lead up to the republican primaries because someone like Trump couldn't possibly beat the establishment republicans. But the polls always showed Trump with a large lead over his nearest rivals. In fact, Trump actually underperformed his polls a bit during the primaries, which means that the experts predicting that the polls were wrong weren't 100% off base. They did overestimate how wrong the polls were but at no point was Trump ever the underdog and yet he came back to prove us all wrong. He was always ahead in the GOP polls and he ended up winning, all be it barely. In fact, despite having a commanding lead throughout the primaries in the polls and in media coverage, he still won the nomination by the smallest margin of any Republican presidential candidate since they started holding primaries.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-probably-arent-lying-to-pollsters/
So in reality, Trump is either exactly where his polling says he is or he is a bit weaker than what his poll numbers say. And a couple of pundits saying that their "gut feeling" is that Trump wouldn't be the nominee doesn't prove anything. Nate Silver's gut feeling 6 months ago was the Trump would ultimately lose the in the primaries but his objective, mathematically based model was dead on. The numbers have never shown that Trump is defying expectation. He did defy expectations of some of the media's political "experts" and the hope of the Republican establishment but if you take away the emotions and what people "feel" will happen, there is nothing shocking about Trump eeking out a victory in the primaries. And there is no evidence that Trump is somehow a juggernaut or that his campaign exists in a separate universe where actions have no consequences and math doesn't matter.
Just like the pundits that said Trump couldn't win the nomination, you need to remove emotion and your gut feeling from the equation and you will see he is, in reality, in a terrible place. And if you obsess over the punditry being incorrect and assume that all rules can now be thrown out the window then you may not have been paying attention for very long.
Here is an article from 2001 discussing how wrong the gut feelings of political pundits are. Just as they were this year, and in 2012, and 2008, and as far back as someone with a fancy suit, perfect teeth, and a fancy title have been trying to look into their crystal ball to predict the outcome of elections.
https://www.thenation.com/article/pundits-who-predict-future-are-always-wrong/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/why-romney-will-win/article/660391
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/4/798696/-
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/11/04/romney-landslide-here-are-the-biggest-names-predicting-it-how-it-will-happen/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/5/1127588/-Four-Years-Ago-An-Utterly-Wrong-Right-Wing-Prediction-of-McCain-s-Election-Night-Landslide
So, wring your hands, stress, worry, distrust the polls, go with your gut feeling on what will happen but history has shown, even this year, that will lead you down the wrong path every time.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Worrying about election results? Watching the polls?
You recommend everyone sit back comfortably and calmly await Democratic victory?
Yes, those are the odds, but it is a queer notion of logic that all is already said and done.
Elections tighten nearer the end. Those that ignore that fact do so at their peril.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)There are many more ways to approach this election than to either freak out every time Clinton goes from +6 in a poll to +5 and saying "the election is over, we already won, there is 0% chance that Trump will in, everyone just sit back, relax and do nothing". Of course Trump could win, I have never said otherwise. The odds, as they appear right now, say that is an unlikely outcome and anyone working themselves into a panic over every movement in the poll will invariably drag us all down to. Not drag us down in respect to winning or losing the election, but dragging down the mood and creating an unnecessary sense of fear and dread.
Telling people to enjoy their 4th of July or their summer vacation instead of sitting in front of the computer alone all day having heart palpitations because of the latest Rasmussen poll is a futile exercise. Telling people to go out and enjoy their friends and family's company instead of locking themselves away, reading every news article out that day about what will likely be an inevitable tightening of the race in the early part of July, does not mean that the election doesn't matter or no work needs to be done. It means not to lose sight of other important things in life and not to let a poll or two ruin what should be an enjoyable and relaxing time of the year.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)"If you're not convinced the sky is falling and screaming about it to anyone who can hear you, you must be just resting on your laurels and taking it for granted!"
You DO know it's possible to be confident of victory yet STILL doing everything you can to ensure it, right? Like, it is possible to think both of those things?
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)You have to realize at least in 2008 and even 2012, the Republican candidate was credible. Trump isn't. He may get a bump, but I'd be surprised if he gets better numbers than Clinton at any point going forward except in very small outliers.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)They aren't terrible but we all know what the media is going to say about it.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)It seems ol' Doc Jack was right. I warned about this nearly 2 weeks ago and still people don't listen. Truly sad
yellowcanine
(35,701 posts)Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)Who I feel I may have to put on ignore literally, and that's not easy to do when you're really "friends." They were hard to live with after Hillary lost to then Sen. Obama. They voted for him of course in the GE, and were happy he won and have been mostly fine with what he's done in office the past 8 years. However, this is their original candidate who has all of her cards on the table in pursuit of the presidency, and they're shaky and in some cases shakier than Don Knotts from the Movie "Shakiest Gun in the West" Most of them understand polling etc., but are still nervous and scared over BS polls like Rasmussen, Gravis and the Q-poll.
Lordt, what am I gonna DO with some of my friends for the next few months & ...
oasis
(49,396 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)with his dishonest and unethical press conference.
For the first time I am worried that Donald Trump will win this election.