Bernie Sanders Says Clinton Allies Frustrating Plan to Block TPP Vote

[DonViejo]

Dispute shows the continuing distrust the Vermont Sen. has about Mrs. Clinton’s commitment to populist issues he has championed

By BOB DAVIS
Jul 3, 2016 1:43 pm ET

WASHINGTON – Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders says Hillary Clinton’s allies are frustrating his plan to have the Democratic Party platform rule out a congressional vote this year on a Pacific rim trade deal negotiated by the Obama administration.

“The Democratic Party must go on record in opposition to holding a vote on this disastrous, unfettered free-trade agreement during the lame-duck session of Congress and beyond,” Mr. Sanders said in a column published Sunday in the Philadelphia Inquirer. He said that an amendment to that effect offered at a St. Louis platform-drafting session late last month was defeated “with all of Hillary Clinton’s committee members voting against it.”

The dispute shows the continuing distrust Mr. Sanders has about Mrs. Clinton’s commitment to the populist issues he has championed during his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination. He also says he wants “very clear language” supporting a $15 minimum wage and a carbon tax, which go beyond what Mrs. Clinton, the party’s presumptive nominee, has backed. Mr. Sanders has said he will vote for Mrs. Clinton in November but hasn’t endorsed her.

The 12-nation trade deal, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, has split both the Democratic and Republican parties. Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders all oppose the deal, but with different levels of vehemence.

more
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/03/bernie-sanders-says-clinton-allies-frustrating-plan-to-block-tpp-vote/

[leftofcool]

2. Obama already told you not to try this, Sanders.

[think]

4. Remind us. Is Hillary for or against the TPP?

http://www.aflcio.org/Press-Room/Press-Releases/Hillary-Clinton-s-Opposition-to-TPP-Praised

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Leave Hillary out of this. This is one of those a rare occasions when I STRONGLY disagree with Pres. Obama on an issue... he should listen to Bernie, who's got this 100% right.

[larkrake]

116. agreed, and Obama knows his position.

on this issue, so many are on Bernies side, dems, indys, libertarians, minorities and a good number of Republicans. Americans do not want any more free trade deals. Perhaps 5% want it.

[thesquanderer]

13. What did Obama tell Sanders about this? Did I miss something? nt

[Tortmaster]

179. Implicit in Senator Sanders' position is the allegation that ...

... President Barack Obama is selling out the American worker to corporate interests. The Senator will not come out and say this because he's not quite that dumb. However, his knowledge of trade is on a par with his knowledge of banking regulations as evidenced by his editorial interview in The New York Daily News. What might President Obama know that Senator Sanders is too lazy or "pure" to find out?

It could be that it is cheaper to manufacture in the United States, today, than it is to manufacture in the average of 9 of our leading trading partners, including China:

"In a 2011 study by the industry-supported Manufacturing Institute, researchers calculated that the 'raw cost' of American manufacturing—including wages, raw materials, and capital costs, but excluding taxes, regulatory compliance, and other “structural costs”—is now 9 percent lower than the average raw cost of production among America’s nine largest trading partners (including China, but also high-cost places like Canada). In 2003, by comparison, American raw production costs were 20 percent higher than the average among our trading partners."

What else does President Obama know that Senator Sanders can't be bothered to find out? Well, maybe he knows China is attempting to make inroads on a deal with these potential trading partners? Maybe the President knows that the most we will ever achieve in alleviating foreign deforestation, over-fishing and workers' rights problems is through an agreement like the TPP (where else do we have leverage?).

President Obama may also know about how the re-shoring of American jobs is happening right now:

"However, the same market forces that have pushed American jobs overseas are now bringing some of those jobs back. Recently, labor costs in places such as China have been rising, and when paired with high international shipping costs, offshore production presents less of a discount than it once did."

Perhaps President Obama knows that if we keep bringing these jobs back, we will need markets in which to sell our goods? He might know that another factor in the re-shoring of manufacturing jobs is the relative cheapness and abundance of natural gas in America. When you have a factory that may be the size of seven football fields, powering the structure can be enormously costly.

The President might also understand that the reason that companies keep their jobs in foreign countries, even if it is cheaper to manufacture in the United States right now, is because corporations and their duly elected representatives--Republicans in Congress--have amended the Tax Code so that (1) corporations are given incentives (deductions) and not penalties for moving American jobs off-shore, (2) corporations receive a more favorable tax treatment (including but not limited to tax rates) on profits made overseas versus profits from Made in America goods, and (3) corporations can keep the profits made in foreign countries in tax havens like Ireland.

Google "Apple" and "Ireland" and "tax haven" for some eye-opening knowledge.

Senator Sanders' arguments are simplistic, no doubt, and they are even couched in the terms of a demagogue with words like "disastrous." Anybody who claims to know for certain whether the TPP will help or hurt American workers is a liar or an idiot. Even Harvard-educated progressive Nobel-laureate Economists don't know that for sure!

As usual, Senator Sanders has aimed his rhetoric at the wrong target. He should be shooting his mouth off at Republicans and their corporate lobbyists to change the Tax Code.

[DemonGoddess]

3. and this surprises him why?

He keeps pushing to get his platform to be what Hillary runs on, and it's not going to happen. We didn't WANT his platform.

[zazen]

63. wait, I thought opposing the TPP was HER platform and HER promise, not just his, right?

[DemonGoddess]

75. and again

I'm going to point out that a treaty which has been pushed by a SITTING President who just so happens to be a Democrat isn't going to be disallowed in the platform. Yes, I know this is her campaign, however, she can and does not like this treaty, but the DNC itself is not going to slap PBO in the face by doing something like this.

[larkrake]

114. Then she needs to shout she is against it. It is not Obamas nomination-it is hers

she has to prove to us bernie's she is serious or she can forget our support. We never believed she was against it and this is a very poor excuse.

We are so last straw right now, but this is an issue we cannot afford to be ho-hum about.

[DemonGoddess]

122. she has, multiple times

what more do you want? a tattoo on her forehead?

[larkrake]

123. "as written" is not a statement that means anything. It is gobbletygook

[reACTIONary]

135. What it means...

..... is that she is not against any and all trade agreements and would be open to renegotiating it. Thats not gobbilygook, that's sound policy reasoning and good common sense.

[Exilednight]

157. But it can't be renegotiated, that is in the treaty. Obama, on several

Occasions, has stated that no matter who wins that if the TPP passes it is binding and cannot be undone.

Personally, I believe she wants it to pass under Obama then she can say "blame that guy" while pointing to Obama.

[reACTIONary]

158. What Hillary said....

.... that she doesn't support it "as written" is not gobbilygook, it's simply common sense if you are not an anti-trade, isolationist extremist. Whether or not she gets the chance to engage in further negotiations remains to be seen.

Given that our president supports the TPP "as written" and our nominee does not, leaving it out of the platform is perfectly reasonable .

[Exilednight]

160. This is a prime example of why Hillary has a trust issue. As the

new leader of the Democratic Party, years of service within government, and likely next President, she is more than in a prime position to urge the president to sign it or reject it.

Instead, she takes the easy way out and says she isn't in such a position while in the same breath arguing it's not a good proposal.

Her answer, in a nutshell, is "I wouldn't sign it, but I'm not in charge and I will not try to influence the president."

Not everyone is stupid enough to buy this illogical argument. If you're running for office, it's your job to influence people within government.

[reACTIONary]

169. I don't think it would be at all proper for..,

Last edited Tue Jul 5, 2016, 10:30 PM - Edit history (2)

..... our nominee to be scolding or lecturing our president. I don't believe her stance is illogical. She is acting in a proper manner and in the best interests of our country and our party.

[Exilednight]

170. I'm not berating our candidate, I'm stating facts. if she wants to

Turn her numbers around, and have a shot at winning reelection, then she needs to take stands. Obama took the nomination in '08 by exposing this weakness and using it to his advantage. Voters want details, and Obama delivered with the Blueprint for Change.

Please reread what I posted, I did not call anyone stupid, I said that most people, meaning the voting public, aren't stupid.

The only reason she will win this time around is because she's running against a moron the likes this country has never seen. Let's be honest, Trump is so moronic he makes dubya look like a Rhodes Scholar.

[reACTIONary]

171. Indeed, you did not. I've edit my comment...

,.. to remove that acusation.

[dflprincess]

172. The TPP is not a treaty, it is an "agreement"

If it were being pushed as a treaty it would require a 2/3 vote by the Senate to pass; selling it they way they are means it only needs a simple majority.

That alone should point to something being rotten.

[politicaljunkie41910]

144. Maybe she'll do it when Benie endorses her. In the mean time...snooze

[larkrake]

145. why? she has the problem, not Bernie. This isnt high school, she needs voters

[pnwmom]

178. And if she goes against Obama, she can lose the support of him

and his millions of supporters.

Let's see . . . lose a fraction of Bernie people vs. lose Obama and his voters, and her own supporters.

[cosmicone]

5. Mr. Sanders, it is called politics. Get over it. n/t

[thesquanderer]

10. Sure, it's politics. And BS is perfectly entitled to try to fight it. That, too, is called politics.

[cosmicone]

19. He can fight it without whining can't he?

President Obama was obstructed by filibusters all through his terms but have you ever seen him whine, crying "it is rigged" or "they are being mean to me?"

Part of being a successful politician is to move forward with positive campaigning and not cry injustice or unfairness at every turn.

[72DejaVu]

31. No.

Unfortunately, he can not.

[thesquanderer]

65. This is whining?

Here is the full text in question:

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20160703_Sanders__Party_platform_still_needs_work.html

I don't see it as whining, but I guess it's subjective...

[cosmicone]

80. Let me think ... yes, it is whining

he got a whole lot of stuff in the meaningless platform. No need to complain, whine, kvetch, grumble, moan, groan, bleat, carp or cavil.

It is his right to do so but bad optics for him, HRC and the democratic party.

[David__77]

83. I think it might be less about the platform than generating public attention.

At least I hope so, because I don't think the platform itself means much.

I can understand Sanders attempting to generate public attention on issues he finds important. Of course he has no "right" to win.

[Lizzie Poppet]

85. It's the right thing to do.

Yeah, I know...no place for doing the right thing in politics.

[cosmicone]

86. It's the right thing to brush one's teeth

but not keep brushing them till the enamel is eroded.

Sanders needs to move on after making his point. It is not all about his views on the TPP.

[okasha]

113. Seems to me that the place to try to influence

Congress is...er..Congress.

Go back to work, Bernie. Stop trying to string out the primary.

[larkrake]

117. and that is how we got in this god-awful mess to begin with. Bernies campaign has been

very positive and he points out unfairness and injustice as major problems in our society, or do you think our cops should shoot people who run away, and minorities should not be allowed to vote?

That is not whining, that is shining light on social atrocities.

[cosmicone]

125. Non sequitur

In this case, he is not shining light on social atrocities -- he is whining that he is not getting his way on the platform to save his face in the light of a dismal defeat in the primaries.

[larkrake]

138. believe what you wish, bernie has never cared about saving face

far from dismal defeat, he did very well indeed, and he has a voice in the platform that will scare the weak sheep of the 3rd way .Fighting the good fight is not whining, it's doing his job. I wish more congressmen would actually stand up and demand morality.

[cosmicone]

142. Like the great job done by

Presidents McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis .... wait .... oops

[Adrahil]

40. Sure. He can squander his political capital hpwever he likes. NT

[randome]

6. Oh, noes! His plans have been frustrated?

"No, really, Mr. Sanders, it's late and we have to get up early in the morning. 'Night. Drive safely."
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[Motown_Johnny]

29. But I thought Hillary is against TPP now too.

So how is this all on Bernie?

Shouldn't she be on board with blocking this vote?

[randome]

33. She should. But I think she's trying to have it both ways. She's a politician.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[lapucelle]

42. Sanders is grandstanding.

After 26 years in Congress you would think that the man would understand how things work. The Democrats are not going to embarrass a sitting president because a party member of barely one year's standing wants to grab credit for a platform plank.

[BlueCaliDem]

81. K&R! ^^^This!^^^ Spot ON. eom

[larkrake]

120. he is very wise on how things work.The squeeky wheel gets attention

[reACTIONary]

137. Would that be positive....

..... or negative attention?

[larkrake]

139. in this case, it is positive

[reACTIONary]

141. I don't know.. that might be a bit optimistic. nt

[zenabby]

87. It's called priorities

She does not see a reason to disrespect the sitting president to include some thing in a meaningless platform. That is just for show, and she likes to do things quietly. Second, she is not as opposed to trade partnerships as Bernie. She is opposed to this particular one due to some reasons/clauses - thus her waiting to see how it would shape up. The trade partnership concept itself is not evil according to her, but it is according to Bernie. Finally, Hillary chooses her battles carefully, as she should. She's not going to go strongly one way or the other and get into an unnecessary fight with either Bernie or Obama. Once she becomes president, she will do what is right and this fight makes no sense.

[geek tragedy]

7. Zzzzzzzz. Win the nomination next time. nt

[William769]

59. They think they still have a shot at it.

[comradebillyboy]

68. Now that is a scary thought, but you might be right...

[BobbyDrake]

8. He needs to stop acting like he won, or that he's "owed" concessions somehow.

Because he didn't, and he isn't.

[stopbush]

35. Bingo.

[bettyellen]

45. That's the strange part- now he is fighting POTUS as well...

Instead of trump.

[WhiteTara]

56. He did want to primary President Obama

so there is that.

[larkrake]

115. he and obama are dear friends and friends do not always agree. Bernie has always had this opinion

and it has nothing to do with Trump, get real and quit sniping, it is very unattractive

[bettyellen]

168. but he is not agreeing to disagree with the Potus. He wants the "platform" to constrain the pres..

And this is about the hundredth time he doesn't seem to realize how shit works.

[LiberalLovinLug]

84. Its not him, its 46% of Democrats

That are "owed" or whatever word you want to use.

Why is that so difficult for some to comprehend.

I think at times the Shakespeare quote "me thinks thou dost protest too much" is very apropos. What are you afraid of?

It cannot be that you suspect Hillary does not actually have issues with the TPP and is only paying lip service to the liberal base do you?

[BobbyDrake]

110. You're not the liberal base. Seriously, wake up and smell the reality.

Last edited Tue Jul 5, 2016, 06:05 AM - Edit history (1)

A "political base" are those voters who always vote for the party. They pull the lever for the same party in every election, they don't skip elections for any reason, and they consistently vote for pretty much any candidate with the party's affiliation next to their name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_(politics)

A political base is NOT the people who openly flirt with alternate party candidates, nor is it made up of people who vote only when motivated by their feelings or emotions. The "liberal base" would never be made up of people who self-identify as "progressive" instead of, you know, "liberal." Derp. The only reason that people like you pretend to be the base is because then you argue that the base must be catered to, even as you take actions, like protest voting for Green Party candidates, that again make it impossible for you to argue that you're actually liberal base voters.

The Democratic base is minorities and women. You can argue otherwise, but you'd be wrong. The Sanders coalition of youth voters (no reliability) and independents (no loyalty) disqualifies them for consideration as "base voters." It doesn't come anywhere close to being the base, and the fact that the REAL political base has now picked the nominee twice in a row must be really frustrating for the wannabes.

[sheshe2]

133. Now that was sweet.

Thanks BobbyDrake.

[DemonGoddess]

150. +1000!

[LiberalLovinLug]

161. wooooooooooosh

Thanks for that wikipedia link, but you are talking about dry demographic statistics, I'm talking about what people's core beliefs are.

Just a few off the top of my head:

Civil and minority rights
Women's equal rights and freedom of choice
Striving towards an egalitarian society
Universal healthcare as a right
Public education
Freedom of speech
Freedom of assembly
Electoral reform to get big money out of politics.
Separation of church and state
Corporations are NOT people
Workers rights over corporate rights

I probably missed some but the base is made up of those that subscribe, overall, to these principles, including women and minorities. But the ones that are the most ardent fall more to the left. Those that are more authoritarian fall more to the right, and may be more soft and willing to bend on of some of those issues.

Even those more ardent traditional Democrats will still vote Democratic, or rather WANT to vote Democratic, because there is no viable alternative.

To proclaim that the base is simply women and minorities is laughably simplistic.

[BobbyDrake]

165. It's sad that you think calling people you disagree with "authoritarian" makes you right.

And name-calling doesn't change the fact that it's one's behavior, not one's ideology, that disqualifies one from being the Democratic base.

[Cha]

173. Mahalo, Bobby.. 'bout time somebody set them straight.. we're the Base.. But, the majority of

the Democratic base is African Americans and specifically African American Women.

Well done~

[sheshe2]

134. You are owed!???

Its not him, its 46% of Democrats
That are "owed" or whatever word you want to use.

You are not 'owed' anything. That sounds pretty privileged to me.

[LiberalLovinLug]

162. Talk about "privileged"

The elitist attitude. Winner take all mentality. Like that is going to be constructive.

I'm glad your own choice of a candidate disagrees with you and is negotiating their platform with him. Snubbing your nose at 46% of your parties members would be moronic.

[sheshe2]

163. Did you just call me a moron?

[pangaia]

152. Bernie doesn't feel he is owed anything.

It is the human beings for whom he is fighting who are owed something.

[CrowCityDem]

9. I'm seriously wondering if Bernie knows how the government works now...

... whether he gets that clause thrown in or not, Republicans control both houses of Congress, so they'll hold a damn vote if they want to. There's nothing Democrats can do to stop it, and just saying "oh, I don't think we should vote" is not a solution in any way, shape, or form.

It sounds to me like all he wants to do is make a point, regardless of if it makes a difference.

[thesquanderer]

12. re: "There's nothing Democrats can do to stop it" - filibuster?

Also, "It sounds to me like all he wants to do is make a point" -- arguably, that's a big part of the purpose of the platform in the first place. Platforms often include things that have no chance of actually happening... to some extent, they are statements of intent, direction, ideals... they are not limited by what can feasibly pass congress.

[Lil Missy]

11. You LOST Bernie. It's not your call. Now go on home and take a nap. n/t

[Lil Missy]

16. Okie Dokie!

[SaschaHM]

18. Didn't you know that winning with 45% of the vote entitles you to

whatever you want?

[SaschaHM]

20. No, we act like Hillary Clinton got an actual majority of the vote.

Bernie is not entitled to anything, but despite that he has gotten serious concessions. Major platform concessions and actual say in the platform. That is unprecedented. However, He's the one that's continuing to bash Democrats because they're refusing to give him everything that he wants. We are the majority.

[chwaliszewski]

14. I think his point is...

that this shouldn't even be a question. The TPP needs to be scuttled. All Democrats should be on board.

[randome]

21. Yes, it's a question. Reasonable people have different opinions.

Everyone isn't out to 'get' American workers. The TPP has some good points to it, some not so good ones. This terribly simplistic notion that it's a piece of garbage that only exists to give us the shaft is nonsense.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[larkrake]

121. no, it is a twisted manipulative treaty, period

according to foreign trade experts speaking at lectures around the world. Not one has said there is any good to come from it

[reACTIONary]

140. Not even one? In the whole wide world? ....

Well here is one....

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-the-finalized-trans-pacific-partnership-a-good-deal/the-trans-pacific-partnership-is-a-potent-check-on-chinese-power

Steven G. Glickman is an adjunct assistant professor at Georgetown University, Truman National Security Project fellow and former White House senior economic advisor under President Obama.

[larkrake]

143. I was not including US experts. Most are honest, but some are paid off

China is dominent because we have let them be so, now the horse left the barn, the TPP is a check, but is so destructive to all members and serves corporations. It is toxic, reactionary rather than thought out and written by criminals

[reACTIONary]

146. Oh! Of course! I forgot for a moment there that....

...... Obama and his team are criminals!

And of course, we Americans must never take the advice of US experts! US experts couldn't possibly have American interests in mind! I mean, heck, they are Americans. We'd be pretty stupid to listen to them!

Best to go with the foreign experts, the ones who really have our best interests as their objectve. And, by golly, not one of them, anywhere, at any time has said even one positive thing for it. Nada. Especially in lectures.

So, i guess i was wrong. Sorry.

[larkrake]

148. your name is perfect

[72DejaVu]

32. Because the loser says so?

Is that how it works now?

[comradebillyboy]

70. Well you don't get to decide for all Democrats

Last I heard Obama is a Democrat and I don't think he or anyone else needs to submit to your purity test.

[G_j]

96. Exactly. nt

[pnwmom]

132. "Must" this. "Must" that. Why does he think his three million fewer votes

entitle him to issue all these "musts" on the platform?

Hillary had a few more popular votes than Obama, but she lost the delegate count, so she endorsed Obama on June 7, the day after the primaries were over. And she didn't issue any "musts" or try to force him to run on her platform.

[SaschaHM]

17. Let him. I hope the President and the Clinton campaign crush him.

He's picking a fight for the purpose of picking a fight. The platform that neither endorses or opposes TPP is going to have no bearing on what the President chooses to do after the election or not. And people talked about making this spoiler a committee chair? Ha, no Democratic Senator or future Clinton administration is going to want to deal with this after the election.

[MineralMan]

22. This really isn't a platform issue.

The platform is about moving forward into the future. It's not about the current administration, but about the one to come. The TPP issue is an Obama issue. The platform won't do anything to block a vote on it before January, if one takes place.

Hillary Clinton has openly opposed the TPP. So has Sanders. President Obama apparently favors it. But the Democratic Party Platform has nothing to do with the Obama administration. It's about the future.

This is a strange thing for Bernie Sanders to insist on. By the time the next President is sworn in, a vote on the TPP may have already taken place. Makes zero sense, really.

[HumanityExperiment]

23. Any trade deal is about the future...

point out where any DEM should not fight against the TPP based upon the facts


http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/12/31/ten-reasons-why-tpp-must-be-defeated

1. TPP will allow corporations to outsource even more jobs overseas.

According to the Economic Policy Institute, if the TPP is agreed to, the U.S. will lose more than 130,000 jobs to Vietnam and Japan alone. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. ·∙ Service Sector Jobs will be lost. At a time when corporations have already outsourced over 3 million service sector jobs in the U.S., TPP includes rules that will make it even easier for corporate America to outsource call centers; computer programming; engineering; accounting; and medical diagnostic jobs.

Manufacturing jobs will be lost. As a result of NAFTA, the U.S. lost nearly 700,000 jobs. As a result of Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China, the U.S. lost over 2.7 million jobs. As a result of the Korea Free Trade Agreement, the U.S. has lost 70,000 jobs. The TPP would make matters worse by providing special benefits to firms that offshore jobs and by reducing the risks associated with operating in low-wage countries.

2. U.S. sovereignty will be undermined by giving corporations the right to challenge our laws before international tribunals.

The TPP creates a special dispute resolution process that allows corporations to challenge any domestic laws that could adversely impact their “expected future profits.” These challenges would be hea rd before UN and World Bank tribunals which could require taxpayer compensation to corporations. This process undermines our sovereignty and subverts democratically passed laws including those dealing with labor, health, and the environment.

3. Wages, benefits, and collective bargaining will be threatened.

NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, and other free trade agreements have helped drive down the wages and benefits of American workers and have eroded collective bargaining rights. The TPP will make the race to the bottom worse because it forces American workers to compete with desperate workers in Vietnam where the minimum wage is just 56 cents an hour .

4. Our ability to protect the environment will be undermined.

The TPP will allow corporations to challenge any law that would adversely impact their future profits. Pending claims worth over $14 billion have been filed based on similar language in other trade agreements. Most of these claims deal with challenges to environmental laws in a number of countries. The TPP will make matters even worse by giving corporations the right to sue any of the nations that sign onto the TPP. These lawsuits would be heard in international tribunals bypassing domestic courts.

5. Food Safety Standards will be threatened.

The TPP would make it easier for countries like Vietnam to export contaminated fish and seafood into the U.S. The FDA has already prevented hundreds of seafood imports from TPP countries because of salmonella, e-coli, methyl-mercury and drug residues. But the FDA only inspects 1-2 percent of food imports and will be overwhelmed by the vast expansion of these imports if the TPP is agreed to.

6. Buy America laws could come to an end.

The U.S. has several laws on the books that require the federal government to buy goods and services that are made in America or mostly made in this country. Under TPP, foreign corporations must be given equal access to compete for these government contracts with companies that make products in America.

Under TPP, the U.S. could not even prevent companies that have horrible human rights records from receiving government contracts paid by U.S. taxpayers.

7. Prescription drug prices will increase, access to life saving drugs will decrease, and the profits of drug companies will go up.

Big pharmaceutical companies are working hard to ensure that the TPP extends the monopolies they have for prescription drugs by extending their patents (which currently can last 20 yea rs or more). This would expand the profits of big drug companies, keep drug prices artificially high, and leave millions of people around the world without access to life saving drugs. Doctors without Borders stated that “the TPP agreement is on track to become the most harmful trade pact ever for access to medicines in developing countries.”

8. Wall Street would benefit at the expense of everyone else.

Under TPP, governments would be barred from imposing “capital controls” that have been successfully used to avoid financial crises. These controls range from establishing a financial speculation tax to limiting the massive flows of speculative capital flowing into and out of countries responsible for the Asian financial crisis in the 1990s. In other words, the TPP would expand the rights and power of the same Wall Street firms that nearly destroyed the world economy just five years ago and would create the conditions for more financial instability in the future. Last year, I co-sponsored a bill with Sen. Harkin to create a Wall Street speculation tax of just 0.03 percent on trades of derivatives, credit default swaps, and large amounts of stock. If TPP were enacted, such a financial speculation tax may be in violation of this trade agreement.

9. The TPP would reward authoritarian regimes like Vietnam that systematically violate human rights.

The State Department, the U.S. Department of Labor, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International have all documented Vietnam’s widespread violations of basic international standards for human rights. Yet, the TPP would reward Vietnam’s bad behavior by giving it duty free access to the U.S. market.

10. The TPP has no expiration date, making it virtually impossible to repeal.

Once TPP is agreed to, it has no sunset date and could only be altered by a consensus of all of the countries that agreed to it.

Other countries, like China, could be allowed to join in the future. For example, Canada and Mexico joined TPP negotiations in 2012 and Japan joined last year.

[MohRokTah]

25. Everything Common Dreams says about TPP is a LIE. eom

[HumanityExperiment]

27. your entitled to your own perception but not to your own facts...

n/t

[yallerdawg]

53. December 31, 2014.

Now that we can read it, no "new" sources"?

Just old platitudes based on speculation and innuendo.

Back when Obama said, "Just wait, and read it first."

[synergie]

101. But Common Dreams is allowd to make up their own facts as long as they match your perceptions?

Interesting. This outlet has proven their failure to acknowledge, understand or accept facts, and willingness to contort them to fit their agenda. They don't get their own "facts" either.

[HumanityExperiment]

103. feel free to prove where they 'made up their own facts'...

interesting that not one of these folks that reply have yet to step up to do so.. will you be the first?

[synergie]

105. Becuase trying to explain things to a true believer who has not done their homework and

who is not able to question the bias of an obviously biased source is a futile thing. No facts or amount of explaining will get through to a true believer on an article of faith.

Feel free to do your own homework and step up to some facts, you might learn how you've been lead along the garden path all this time, should you be able to see beyond your bias.

[HumanityExperiment]

108. this back and forth is interesting...

but you still have yet to refute the facts in any of your replies, instead you deflect

[MineralMan]

30. I'n not arguing pro or con about TPP.

My point is only that it is an Obama administration issue. Putting something in the platform recommending that the Obama administration and this Congress should do anything is outside of the nature of the 2016 platform.

Will there be a vote on TPP before the next administration takes over? I have no idea. Why the platform would even address the lame duck Congress and President, I don't know, either.

It is not an issue for the 2016 platform. It simply isn't.

[HumanityExperiment]

36. That's not the point...

you are trying to 'stick a pin' into a trade deal to Obama Admin, whereas the overriding point is that trade deals matter to overall ideology and span many admins

This is why the platform battle matters, I've mentioned this numerous times in many posts here In DU

You recognize this and are tryin to get ahead of this before convention, sadly the momentum is against you and you know it

it is ALL about what DEMs stand for, and the platform and this party stands for

[Trenzalore]

38. Platform battles don't matter

It is a silly document that will be forgotten about almost a few days after the convention.

I fail to understand about the obsession about the platform.

What Sanders should really be obsessing about is the rules committee since that will determine what the process will be in 2020.

[HumanityExperiment]

41. principles

principles matter

[metroins]

46. Actually, results matter

Nobody cares about principles if they can't get them done.

[HumanityExperiment]

48. Political Will

I'll take political will over political expediency every time...

that's the difference in reading your reply

[metroins]

49. I'll always take results

Speeches, tantrums, complaining, emails, acting holier than thou mean nothing without accomplishment of results.

[HumanityExperiment]

51. convention should be fun...

Let's see how you take those results when a political movement meets DEM convention shall we?

[hack89]

88. There will be no floor fight.

Conventions are for the nominee to launch their GE campaign. Bernie will fall in line or he will be shut out. Remember - candidates don't get to make speeches at the convention .

[HumanityExperiment]

89. this isn't about convention speeches...

but you can keep thinking it is...

[hack89]

90. He has little influence over how the convention will unfold

Hillary's people are running the show. And what happens outside will not change a thing.

[HumanityExperiment]

91. it's a DEM convention....

the control is within DEM folks, so you can believe what you'd like...

to continue to ignore there's a movement afoot is comical to see HRC and establishment DEM folks try to spin or suppress that there's not one going on

[hack89]

92. The Democratic convention belongs to the presumptive nominee

that's the way it works. They are not going to change things to placate Bernie. He does not have the power to bend the party to his will - lets not forget he is the loser.

Movements have accomplishments. Right now Bernie's movement is all talk - they failed their first big test when they failed to come out in sufficient numbers to win him the nomination.

Perhaps we are talking about different things. What specific accomplishments do you expect the "movement" to come away from Philly with?

[HumanityExperiment]

98. DEM convention...

'Movements have accomplishments. Right now Bernie's movement is all talk'

the St. Louis platform meet was just the first volley...

I believe the platform fight is just a primer, the push to see where the establishment stands on liberal/progressive principles....

[hack89]

99. Hillary has more votes on the platform

Because more DEMS supported her and her ideas. The party is not progressive by Bernie standards. He will lose and most Dems will be satisfied with the results.

[HumanityExperiment]

100. millions of DEMs that voted for Bernie are scaring establishment DEMs

like I've stated numerous times, convention should be fun

[synergie]

107. Sorry, but the millions MORE who voted for Hillary and the percentagle that voted for him and are

backing her now aren't scaring them at all.

The convention will be fun, but not so much for Bernie, but I'm sure the Rave at whatever park his handful of supporters will be partying at will be lots of fun. They won't have much to do with the Democratic convention, since as they keep telling everyone, they're not Democrats.

[HumanityExperiment]

109. convention will be fun for those in the movement, 'nuff said

n/t

[hack89]

118. Now you are being silly

Last edited Wed Jul 6, 2016, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)

Either that or you have no clue how conventions work. With there being no doubt who the nominee will be, Hillary will have an iron grip on the convention. There will be no confrontations.

[HumanityExperiment]

127. acknowledge there's a movement afoot or don't...

I know establishment DEMs are paying close attention, again, convention should be fun

[HumanityExperiment]

181. 'silly'? not at all... here's the facts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512239531

This goes against precedent, the 'expected'... and establishment doesn't know how to deal with it

Convention will be fun

[hack89]

182. Notice how his rally is outside and not part of the convention?

his permit is from the city. Bernie has to do this because he has no leverage with the people that are running the convention. He will not be able to speak inside hence his rally.

[HumanityExperiment]

183. LMAO

care to take a guess on how much coverage MSM will give to that rally?

OPTICS... gotta love how this will be framed and reported on...

massive numbers and MSM coverage have a dramatic impact on 'leverage' so there is that...

[hack89]

184. With zero impact on any floor votes in the convention

and the optics could look really shitty for Bernie if he uses his rally to attack Hillary and the Democratic party. Don't overlook Bernie's ability to overplay his hand and undercut his message. If he says the right things in the right way, the party will toss him and his supporters a few bones. But he gets nothing if he doesn't fall in behind the nominee and start acting like a Democrat.

[HumanityExperiment]

185. LOL

yeah... 'zero impact'... interesting perception... gl with that

[hack89]

186. What impact do you think it could possibly have?

80% of his supporters have switched to Hillary and Warren has taken his place as the link to progressive Democrats. What exactly does the party have to loose by playing hardball with him? Can you articulate a somewhat detailed scenario that could play out at the convention?

[HumanityExperiment]

187. convention is going to be fun...

the rally is just another fun aspect

I don't need to 'articulate' anything to you, really... it's not as if anything I would reply with matters to you at this point

massive numbers of engaged registered DEM voters ALWAYS has significant impact on politicians, especially when said group is voicing an opinion against the narrative that is to be attempted to be built at said convention

locking the DEM candidate to liberal/progressive principles matter, I'm sure they do to you as well... or are you making the claim that Bernie doesn't have a valid point to continue that campaign that millions want a DEM candidate to stand for?

[hack89]

188. If you want to convince me that you know what you are talking about

then yes, you do have to articulate something beyond "convention is going to be fun".

Bernie is fooling himself and his supporters if he thinks that he is going to get the party to change to reflect his desires. Lets not forget that he lost. Dem voters chose Hillary and her ideas over him. His "campaign" is pure ego - the fact that he even refuse to acknowledge that Hillary beat him tells me all I need to know about Bernie. Are you telling me that he can't change the party without insulting Hillary and all the loyal Dem voters that chose her?

[HumanityExperiment]

189. you misunderstand... I'm not trying to 'convince' you of anything

you came into this 'convo' with this:

"Conventions are for the nominee to launch their GE campaign. Bernie will fall in line or he will be shut out. Remember - candidates don't get to make speeches at the convention ."



all I stated was 'convention will be fun...Let's see how you take those results when a political movement meets DEM convention shall we?'


funny how 3/4 of your latest reply concerns being dismissive and trying to marginalize Bernie.... why is that?

wouldn't someone that points out 'Lets not forget that he lost' be less concerned with Bernie at this point than more concerned as you seem to be?

it appears the 'convincing' doesn't need to come from my side...

[hack89]

191. ok. nt

[sheshe2]

176. I scared.

[HumanityExperiment]

180. facetious reply aside...

I know you're scared http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512239531

This goes against precedent, the 'expected'... and establishment doesn't know how to deal with it

Convention will be fun

[eridani]

126. Most voters don't know shit about her ideas, and vote mostly on name familiarity

So who will be doing most of the doorbelling for Dems up and down the ticket? That would be labor and environmental groups. And what do those key constitutencies think about TPP?

[hack89]

136. They will turnout in great numbers regardless of TPP

Because they also have other priorities and they know what a disaster Trump will be for them. They are politically sophisticated and are not going to turn TPP into a litmus test.

[synergie]

106. That's not what the word primer means, and Bernie has no plan, he's just trying to get

something to justify his failure to concede ever.

The "establishment" has proven that they're far more liberal and progressive on principles with their actual actions, rather than rhetoric. He failed to show up to participate, and instead keeps trying to play this platform thing like it has meaning and votes on the floor don't.

[metroins]

93. You know how I know you've never

Watched a convention?

You actually think something happens over the "platform". It doesn't.

The only time it's a crazy convention is when their multiple nominees who can win. We do not have that problem right now.

[HumanityExperiment]

97. you know how...

didn't say platform, I stated that the convention will be fun

what you read into that is on you

I believe the platform fight is just a primer, the push to see where the establishment stands on liberal/progressive principles....

[metroins]

104. This convention will be

a celebration.

I'm excited to watch.

[kacekwl]

60. Ahhhha , the Trump

philosophy.

[BlueCaliDem]

82. No. Bashing the sitting Democratic president and Democrats and the DNC is a Trump philosophy and

the GOP one.

[eridani]

174. Most Dems in Congress voted against TPP, an most Repubs for it

People defending TPP are therefore the ones with the Republican philosophy.

[Trenzalore]

57. That is all well and good

Saying you won't concede because you are concerned about what is written in a document that no one cares about exemplifies everything Bernie is and was.

[HumanityExperiment]

66. yet all these hand wringing posts in DU...

...about Bernie, go figure

[DemonGoddess]

151. I would think that MineralMan has more than a passing

familiarity with how things like this WORK, given his experience in working with the party locally. He's absolutely right you know. The platform has not a thing to do with the lame duck session.

[drray23]

34. go to ustp.gov/tpp

and actually read it. For example, regarding the environment, that would be 20.1, 20.2 and 20.3

It explicitely states that each country shall enforce their own environmental laws, that they can not be asked to change them.

Regarding other countries interfering with our laws :

7. Nothing in this Chapter shall be construed to empower a Party’s authorities to undertake environmental law enforcement activities in the territory of another Party.

I am not sure how it squares with what you posted. Read that chapter 20 in details wth an objective eye instead of relying on somebody else summary which may have been drafted when only parts of the tpp were available. We now have the full text and can see for ourselves.

[HumanityExperiment]

37. LOL...

I'll stick to the facts, thx

"I am not sure how it squares with what you posted." the facts stand on their own, no need to 'square them' to what you posted...

[drray23]

43. The facts are what is in the document posted on that website I quoted.

This is the official text that congress is supposed to debate.

[HumanityExperiment]

44. and I posted facts that point out the issues concerning TPP

feel free to dispute those facts presented... your document doesn't refute them

[metroins]

47. They posted the actual document text

It cannot get more factual than that.

You're posting opinions of how a person thinks it will work, but the actual document is the real facts.

[HumanityExperiment]

50. dissecting the TPP is what is occurring...

the facts within that dissection matter, again, feel free to debate those

[metroins]

94. I don't have to debate

A person's view of what they think is in the TPP when I can read the literal text.

[Ghost Dog]

55. Bad URL

[drray23]

61. sorry. you are correct. Here is the link to the ustr.gov website (not ustp like I wrote initially)

Last edited Mon Jul 4, 2016, 01:04 PM - Edit history (1)

https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/trans-pacific-partnership/tpp-full-text

[Ghost Dog]

69. Thank you. n/t

[sheshe2]

175. I am pretty sure we have someting about

4 paragraph rules.

[floppyboo]

71. Maybe Hillary not putting pressure on the committee and SD's to follow her lead

on the TPP was a condition Obama made in exchange for his endorsement and agreement to campaign with her? In which case, this is a Hillary issue, not just an Obama issue.

I can't think of any other reasons she would want to seemingly change her mind, especially as she is battling a trust-worthiness image.

[MohRokTah]

24. The loser doesn't determine policy. eom

[pampango]

26. I imagine that Obama has quite a bit of influence there too. His 'allies' probably want more

inclusive language too on TPP. And if a majority of the Democratic base agrees with Obama on TPP, one can make the case that the platform should not be all or nothing on TPP but should recognize both sides.

[B Calm]

28. Looking at past trade deal votes, this is good news for republicans.

[merrily]

52. But why? She said during the primary that she opposes it.

[Trenzalore]

58. Obama doesn't

You won't see a document coming out of a democratic convention that contradicts the position of a sitting President. That has nothing to do with Hillary.

[w4rma]

129. I don't buy that bullshit, one bit. Noone should buy that bullshit. If she opposes it, then she

needs to oppose it. But, she is lying about opposing it, since she is telling her surrogates to do whatever the lame duck President, who is fully on board with the vast majority of the elected Republicans on this topic, wants.

[Lil Missy]

62. You lost Bernie. So now you should get lost.

[comradebillyboy]

72. That's too much to hope for but I share your sentiment...

Last edited Mon Jul 4, 2016, 01:54 PM - Edit history (1)

[Gothmog]

64. Good

I doubt that Sanders will be able to pass this on the floor of the convention

[comradebillyboy]

73. I just hope he doesn't try to disrupt the convention over this.

Go check out the 'BernTheConvention' sub-Reddit to see what some supporters are planning.

[Gothmog]

128. Let him try

Sanders is not going to be finding a great deal of support for his plan to insult and attack President Obama at the convention

[w4rma]

130. Actually, if he is able to get this up for a vote on the floor, he could very well win a floor fight

over the TPP.

[Gothmog]

156. Dream on

I am a Hillary delegate who will be on the floor for this vote. Sanders is getting less and less popular with the Hillary delegates every day.

[w4rma]

166. The TPP is getting less and less popular with Democrats, every day. I think Hillary delegates

generally hate the TPP as much as I do. You are an outliar. And Bernie only needs to split off a few Hillary delegates, along with his own delegates, to win a floor fight over the TPP.

[Gothmog]

167. President Obama just gave a great speech for Hillary Clinton

The party is not going to chose a non-democratic like Sanders over President Obama. Sanders' goal is to repudiate President Obama's legacy and that is not going to happen.

Again, I will be on the convention floor and I get to vote on this issue. I am on a couple of private groups of Clinton delegates and Sanders is not popular with these delegates.

[PowerToThePeople]

67. Excellent!

[chwaliszewski]

149. +99

[Lord Magus]

112. This isn't about Hillary, it's about President Obama.

You're not going to see Senate Dems block a vote if President Obama wants the vote.

[w4rma]

131. To you, it's apparently about shifting the blame. (nt)

[larkrake]

147. Voters dont pick a nominee thinking about the outgoing president.Senate dems dont want the TPP

and will vote against Obama and /or Hillary about the TPP. It is the republicans who will vote it up or down. If the vote is before Obama leaves, it will pass. If later, when we win back the senate, we can vote it down for sure.

It does not matter if Obama wants the TPP. Too many dems are against it. He has to get alot of repug votes

[BlueMTexpat]

76. .

[JTFrog]

77. "Mr. Trump has tried to use that skepticism to win the backing of Sanders voters."

You don't say.

[comradebillyboy]

79. Judging by some of the comment I see at DU, Trump's

strategy seems to be working.

[G_j]

95. You have seen people saying they will vote for Trump?

well that's interesting...

[RandySF]

78. .

[stonecutter357]

102. lol

[DawgHouse]

111. BS has overstayed his welcome.

[B Calm]

155. How's that? You like trade deals like NAFTA?

I lost a job I worked at for 25 years to NAFTA. That job is now being done in Mexico.

[tirebiter]

119. I thought blocking votes was obstructionist

Republicans do that.

[jalan48]

124. Thank you for sticking up for the average citizen Bernie!

[silvershadow]

153. Sounds legit. nt

[jimw81]

154. TPP is Sanders main objective

This is main issue he cares about because he knows a vote is coming up after conventions on it and if it's passes and it will occur, it kills his little revolution and his political life. The reason why he's using this fight to convention is to embarrass Dems and Obama when it passes

[Hortensis]

159. Of course. It's mainly a political move to motivate

as many people to stay with him as possible. That's not to say he doesn't genuinely oppose the TPP, only that he is blowing up this issue to try to stop the hemorrhaging of his support.

[LuvLoogie]

177. Too bad.

So done with holier-than-thou grandstanding. Go back to the legislature and legislate.

Oh, and when given the opportunity to read a pet amendment into the Senate record so that it gets an opportunity for debate, don't withdraw and then vote for the corporate compromise while later criticizing braver, harder working collegues for not being bold enough.

[DemonGoddess]

190. ^^^This!!!