2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAs a Bernie supporter, I apologize for the crazies among us
I just got into an argument with 2 nasty Bernie or Bust people who, despite their professed support for Bernie, felt he deserves to be booed for endorsing Hillary. They said they were voting for Jill and walked away haughtily before I could respond. These people don't speak for Bernie, they don't speak for me, and they don't speak for the vast majority of us who support Bernie.
sarae
(3,284 posts)I just want you to know that your support is really appreciated and it's definitely helping to calm my anxiety.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Every single word. This OP was like a breath of fresh air.
democrattotheend, thank you. Just thank you.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)Most Bernie supporters are just not all that enthused because with the addition of Kaine and the policies he supported the ticket is just not progressive enough. Merkley or Warren or just any progressive would have been better but what we have is a DLC moderate corporatist ticket but still miles above the alternative. I just hope we can encourage them to move left and stand for what the people claim they want according to the polls.
Were those the only 2 Bernie supporters you ran into? What about all the other ones who are like you? Did you post about them...noooo...just the negative crap. Now I don't know if I can eve believe you. Could be you're just making the whole thing up
sarae
(3,284 posts)You're responding to a post in which I said, simply "Thank you." I didn't mention any Bernie supporters anywhere.
liberalmike27
(2,479 posts)Hate the corrupt game.
Seriously, I can't believe people are mad at those of us who are justifiably made about being screwed continuously for six months by the DNC and Debbie screwing our campaign.
Urchin
(248 posts)If you've been screwed continuously for six months, why should you find it hard to believe that people who support the screwers would be mad at you for objecting?
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)and thank you too!
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)we can do it
(12,205 posts)Pluvious
(4,327 posts)It's even worse than what happened with Ralph Nadir and Bush.
It's the next appointments to the SCOTUS, our relations with the World,
and our sanity and survival at home.
It's shocking to see that the Right doesn't have a monopoly on cognitive dissonance...
calimary
(81,527 posts)Especially since Bernie speaks this evening.
I must admit - I'm pretty upset about this. Hopefully, it's just July.
My husband just piped up with "well, Trump must be LAUGHING." I'm just shaking my head over this.
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)As a fellow Bernie supporter, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Before watching the RNC train wreck last week, I was hell bent on voting for Jill Stein. Sure, she shares my views and I'm much more politically aligned with her than I am with Hillary Clinton, and I live in a solidly red state that that has no hope of going for Hillary in the general election. However, last week, after seeing that Nuremberg rally on full display in Cleveland, I knew that my vote had to go for Hillary. I want to be counted in the popular vote of people in this country who said "Hell No!" to fascism when it appeared on a ballot.
Booing Bernie because he endorsed Hillary and, to boot, promising a vote for a third-party or Donald Trump at this stage is counterproductive to everything Bernie wants in the revolution. We clean up this mess and we defeat the fascism FIRST. Then, we can get back to the Revolution and pushing for what we all want.
Euphoria
(448 posts)When fascism rears its ugly head, all opposed have to work together. Together.
Wounded Bear
(58,743 posts)Bernie will get much more done as a Senate Committee Chairman in a Hillary Clinton administration than he will as a ranking member in a Trump regime.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I don't give a crap about Godwin's Law. This is what this IS. You will be able to look yourself in the eye and say, "I did everything I could to prevent fascism's rise in my own country."
Thank you for your vote and your thoughtfulness and care for what will happen to the country and the WORLD if Trump is elected.
JudyM
(29,294 posts)on a mass scale. TRump is dangerous, but he is no Hitler, and to suggest he is is to literally minimize the scope and scale of what Hitler did. We shouldn't get carried away with false equivalencies in our enthusiasm to defeat him.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I take Trump in context. In the context of the Brexit vote, of the rise of far-right fascists in France, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, and many other European countries. His coziness with Putin, his bald statement that he would take us out of NATO. His supporters' frothing zeal for kicking Muslims and Mexicans out of the country, their violent hatred and rage. How far is that from detaining them, imprisoning them? I really am not trying to either speak in hyperbole OR minimise what Hitler did. I am quite serious when I say it could happen in America. We detained the Japanese in their thousands in horrible conditions during WWII. Germany was a democracy before and after the wars.
This is how it starts, and everyone says, "Oh don't compare it to THAT, it won't be THAT bad". Lobsters in a pot as the water slowly comes to a boil.
JudyM
(29,294 posts)widespread and positively grotesque institutionalized torture and murders.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)It's a long, slow road to fascism, but we are on that road with a Trump presidency.
Craig234
(335 posts)I mean, that's how it starts.
As terrible as trump is, you have no way to claim he will do anything close to what Hitler did.
'This is how it starts'. Hitler had already done a lot worse at this point than trump, with the 'brownshirts' and violence.
Criticize trump accurately - for the good of defeating him. You cannot say trump will repeat the Holocaust.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Comparison to Hitler is ridiculous, not to mention a violation of Goodwin's law
LiberalFighter
(51,170 posts)that would be the mindset of a Hitler.
Craig234
(335 posts)Hitler's crimes were not saying he had such loyal supporters he could shoot someone and keep their support.
Hitler owned a dog. Obama owns a dog. Do the math, according to your absurd equalizing.
LiberalFighter
(51,170 posts)Craig234
(335 posts)I gave an example where it doesn't add up to show that trump's statement doesn't add up to him being the same as Hitler.
sarae
(3,284 posts)People didn't think Hitler was, either. I don't want to take that chance.
JudyM
(29,294 posts)would tolerate mass murdering our citizens, I don't even know what to say to you.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)These people (Trump supporters) are both crazy AND heavily armed. And Trump would be the CIC of the military. And the media is complicit. It COULD be normalised. It is possible. It could happen in America.
sarae
(3,284 posts)As someone who's not white, I don't want to take that chance.
calimary
(81,527 posts)Mike Pence is a fanatic would bring us the closest in our history to Sharia law. CHRISTIAN-style Sharia law. Especially since what Kasich reported - about being hit up to be his running mate: that the VP job in a Trump administration would be the most powerful Vice Presidency EVER, because the Vice President would be put in charge of running domestic AND foreign policy. In other words, and this was a quote - the parts of the job "that he doesn't want to do." Oh great. And there's something else that bothers me about that, too: the parts of the job "that he doesn't want to do"???????????" So, Donald, you're applying for a really big important job that has include some parts that you DON'T WANT TO DO?????????????????????? The quote, if I recall correctly, is from one of Trump's sons, who now denies he said it. Figures. From the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" department.
The "creative destruction" crowd, like Susan Sarandon and others who think that maybe four years of Donald Trump would be worth suffering through to get to critical mass on revolution just completely slay me. They REALLY, SERIOUSLY believe that? How'd their support of Ralph Nader work out for them?
All I can say after watching this circus this morning, is that I'm damn glad this is happening in July, when there are still months left to the campaign and November's still off in the distance, and there's time to recover.
A Trump/Pence win would swiftly become "the gift that keeps on shivving." As in, sticking a shiv straight into our backs. And pulling it out, while twisting. And then plunging it in again.
Sorry about all the ?s and the caps, but that's the volume, pitch, and velocity of my feelings about this. I know what would happen if I applied for a job but said I didn't want to do some of its parts that make up the job. Yeah, I wanna be a reporter, but I don't want to have to schlep out however far it is to cover some story, or pay for gas, or try to find parking, or have to sit around and set up my mic and/or camera, and do the research beforehand, read the handouts at the venue, know who and what it is about. I just want the parts where I'm on camera. Can I have the job? I'm gonna make the broadcast great again. I'd be laughed all the way to the opposite coast.
sarae
(3,284 posts)Trump or Pence by themselves are bad enough. Together?
shireen
(8,333 posts)Was it during prime time or earlier in the coverage? I started watching around 8pm on C-Span -- heard a little booing but the cheers were generally drowning them out.
What did I miss?
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)1 year into a Trump presidency there are simultaneous Cobalt 60 (takes an incredibly small amount to do this and easier to get then you think)
http://fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RS21528.pdf
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/elements/features/2010/blogging_the_periodic_table/cobalt_it_makes_the_dirtiest_of_dirty_bombs.html
http://www.packworld.com/sterilization-methods-medical-device-packaging
http://thebulletin.org/lessons-mexican-theft
radiological dirty bomb terrorist attacks in Atlanta and Boston (ISIL with aid from North Korean sleeper units) .
100 thousand plus dead from radiation poisoning in a short to long term window. The downtown areas rendered uninhabitable for decades.
Marshall law invoked, massive ME retaliation (which spirals ups to region wide battle arenas and thus swells ISIL ranks), and over the next months hundreds, maybe thousands of muslims killed by vigilante mobs. Then another attack, even bigger, with mini civil wars break out in Detroit, Minneapolis, New York, and other muslim heavy areas. Think multiple Kristallnachts.
You take it from there.............
JudyM
(29,294 posts)firing squads... All without trial.
I don't think so. Anything is possible, no doubt, but tRump is not Hitler and the US would not be an environment, even under the extreme conditions you posit, where the government would engage in mass scale executions.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)and results. It would never get to mass gasser levels as well. But it could go to levels beyond what I already posted. I am not a great fiction writer. I just tossed out a possible but unlikely scenario that would put us on the road to a fascist, violent outcome.
brett_jv
(1,245 posts)I say this in as constructive a manner as possible ... it will help, if you want to be taken seriously when talking about such subjects, to know that the word is 'Martial', not 'Marshall'.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)I've just gotten tired of correcting it.
ProfessorPlum
(11,279 posts)JudyM
(29,294 posts)Thanks for posting it here. IMO a large part of the issue with tRump is that he's so outrageous and seemingly ad hoc with his comments that people think he's just saying things to stimulate interest. Seeing all these quotes on different issues together illustrates the weaving together of consistent viewpoints, makes it much more apparent that he could be a concrete a threat to the world. I still don't believe he would be able to mass-slaughter people as Hitler did, if indeed he would want to do that, but I do appreciate the comprehensive information you provided -- thanks!
ProfessorPlum
(11,279 posts)I think while Trump hasn't done anything as horrible as Hitler, that he is of the same type as Hitler, Mussolini, etc. He has a fascist strongman mindset, and in the same situation as those others he would make similar choices.
That is why the comparison, from my point of view, is both appropriate and extremely important.
thanks for keeping an open mind
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)Operation wetback killed how many Hispanic Mexicans. Wasn't that institutionalized murder. What could happen? You better hope it is a false equivalence and his deportation force doesn't do the same thing.
Craig234
(335 posts)Trump is horrible enough - overstating the cases as 'literally Hitler' only helps trump, and is not correct.
And, you're disrespecting fifty million people killed in WWII as well.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I am not exaggerating or minimising anything. This is how it starts.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)Yes, in May I was BoB. But once California voted I accepted the result and moved on. I had a lot of disagreements with Hillary's positions in the past but allowed myself to be pleasantly surprised when she didn't go hard right after becoming the presumptive nominee.
I know a lot of my fellow Bernie supporters disagree with the pick of Tim Kaine but I'd rather keep our most reliable progressives, such as Warren, in the Senate where they will have far more influence than as VP.
Meanwhile, Trump routinely has people kicked out of his rallies as a matter of course; he mocks people with disabilities, including reporters (which is very much something that Hitler DID do); he blacklists journalists...and a whole bunch of other brazenly fascist shit. He wants to "deport" millions of people, which will require staggering police state logistics on a scale this country has never seen, nor do I wish for it to ever see. We have already denied asylum claims to Honduran citizens who fled here fearing for their lives after the Honduran coup, deported such persons, only to see them murdered days after their repatriation to Honduras. And that happened under the Obama administration.
Donald Trump represents that on a massive scale. A very, very, very massive scale. A Joe Arpaio-style, round-up-teh-browns and check their papers kind of style. Just because we're not the ones lining up brown people in front of firing squads does not mean those firing squads do not exist. A Trump administration would deport at minimum tens of thousands of Central Americans directly to their deaths at the hands of waiting drug cartels, military juntas, and the like.
Even if the chances of Trump going full Hitler are 1%, that's still 1% too high. He has made it very clear that he does NOT believe in equal protection under the laws on a scale not seen since the days that Jim Crow was practiced openly. I thought it couldn't get worse than Dubya (the reason why I became a Democrat, first presidential election I was old enough to vote was 2004), but whoooo boy did Don the Con prove me wrong. Dubya at least paid lip service to the constitution and tried to put forth a legal argument through the court system that exigencies justified his abrogations of such.
Trump is far more scary than Dubya ever was on his worst day. The shit that Dubya did in Iraq, Trump would do AT HOME. Regardless of how I've felt about Hillary in the past, I'm with auntpurl. I'll be damned if I let someone who thinks that mocking cerebral palsy is funny and that people don't have the First Amendment right criticize him run the country.
Am I voting against fascism?
DAMN RIGHT I AM!
ProfessorPlum
(11,279 posts)sarae
(3,284 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Tatiana
(14,167 posts)Thank you.
calimary
(81,527 posts)Reading things like your post makes me feel a little better.
MiniMe
(21,721 posts)But the most important thing at this time is to beat tRump!!
yuiyoshida
(41,867 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,743 posts)Bernie will get much more done as a Senate Committee Chairman in a Hillary Clinton administration than he will as a ranking member in a Trump regime.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)We all know that 80% of Bernie folks are going to vote for Hillary and will not boo her or any such thing. The other 20% were never Democrats to begin with.
I just hope not too many of that 20% are credentialed delegates.
bekkilyn
(454 posts)Some of us 80% aren't Democrats either, but will still be voting for Hillary. I don't know what these people expected Bernie to do if he lost the primary. Of course he was going to support the Democrat nominee. The entire reason he ran as a Democrat in the first place is so that he wouldn't split the Democrat vote and allow a Republican to win. A real Bernie supporter would know these things.
Blue Idaho
(5,060 posts)I'm glad you are here! Bernie knows what's at stake, so do you and so do I. 80% of Bernie's supporters know what's at stake. Unfortunately you know how this works - the squeaky wheels get the grease, and the media attention, and the social media traffic.
November's election is as big as it gets. We need all hands on board in order to defeat that sick fascist Trump. So, like you - I'm going to keep my focus where it belongs.
bekkilyn
(454 posts)After seeing the rest of the convention along with more dismal messages from Trump, I'm even more determined than ever to defeat him!
LiberalFighter
(51,170 posts)And the most of the remaining were just out to agitate.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Native
(5,943 posts)I would, too.
Pauldg47
(640 posts)tawadi
(2,110 posts)LisaM
(27,843 posts)This convention is breaking my heart. I waited 8 long years for this moment, and it's being stripped away. I've seen more Bernie people being interviewed on TV, more camera time given to Bernie supporters, and heard his name more often than I've heard hers. It's really getting me depressed, so I'm glad that there are probably more people like you than there are of the aggressive, noisy types.
shireen
(8,333 posts)Watch C-Span. It's a much nicer experience.
RAFisher
(466 posts)We're all not a bunch of morons! My guy lost in the primary. I accepted that months ago. If no one gets 270 EV then Congress, filled with elephants, gets to pick our next president. I'm not suffering under a Trump presidency just so some god damn green party voter can feel morally superior and sleep at night. These people need to buy a binky and benadryl if they can't sleep at night.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)sarae
(3,284 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)....feel and act. Posting this is a good reminder
moonscape
(4,674 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)who are immature, unreliable and quite frankly, cranks.
The VAST MAJORITY of SBS supporters will vote for the Clinton/Kaine ticket. And they are to be commended, celebrated and welcomed!
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)Because the media loves conflict. These people are not just undermining the convention, they are undermining Bernie and everything he stands for.
Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)They hurt him and his cause by doing so. His presence in the race was essential to strengthening the nominee and shaping the campaign that now moves forward.
The continuation of the progress Bernie has made is absolutely dependent on the election of a Democratic President and Dems up and down our tickets. Onward and forward - STRONGER TOGETHER!
BlueMTexpat
(15,374 posts)MynameisBlarney
(2,979 posts)I feel the same way!
lillypaddle
(9,581 posts)Thank you!
relayerbob
(6,561 posts)I supported Bernie, but that ship has sailed. We have to live in the present, and most definitely Clinton is far closer to our ideals than any of the POS on the RNC side.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)When I supported Hillary when she lost to Obama, it stung, but I don't remember going completely crazy and threatening to waste my vote by voting for someone who could not win.
This an interesting faction of the Bernie group. Most of the ones I know understand what can be lost, especially in terms of the Supreme Court. They are sane, care about the country more than themselves. The small group of radical progressives, and I hesitate to call them that, don't get it at all.
shireen
(8,333 posts)He would never condone their ridiculous behavior. I can only conclude they were never really Sanders supporters.
c-ville rook
(45 posts)And in the end 15 to 18% of Hillary primary voters. Said they would vote for McCain and did. That is just the numbers there is always a disaffected mass. Just be glad the average voter does not pay attention to primaries.
Small favors.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)As they may not know where the numbers were published and what methodology was used to acquire those numbers.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)supporters like this.
The primaries are over!
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)You said "we" understand it is a small number. To understand that means having data about the number. Provide the data, or please retract your statement, or say it was your personal opinion based on no data.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)of Bernie supporters who think like this. VERY SMALL!!!!!!
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Hekate
(90,865 posts)Squinch
(51,053 posts)shireen
(8,333 posts)As of July 12, 85% will vote for Hillary.
More at this link:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/12/sanders-supporters-clinton-vote-survey
I think emotions are very raw right now. Sanders supporters who say they are not supporting her need more time to process the loss. Over the next few months, I believe they'll come to understand the stakes and vote for her. There really is no other logical choice.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
glennward
(989 posts)bjobotts
(9,141 posts)63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)Clearly some among that number booing Bernie are chicken-shit Don the Con plants. Hopefully those that are not will come to their senses. To boo the very man you respect obviously displays the fallacy of their reasoning.
Squinch
(51,053 posts)respected their candidate, and understand nothing about politics.
I decided for Hillary about halfway through the Primary season, and I am proud to have her as my candidate. I respect the Sanders supporters and am very grateful that they have, en masse, decided to support the Democratic Party against Donald Trump.
These crazies, as you call them, have nothing to do with any of us. They began as trolls and they end as trolls. They are the tools of Donald Trump.
Craig234
(335 posts)They ARE Bernie supporters on the issue of cleaning up elections.
They're NOT Bernie supporters on his commitment to progressive goals needing to defeat trump.
I view them as people with principles who are misguided about the actual choices in our system - I can't remember any of them really addressing the issue of how harmful trump would be over Hillary.
I don't view them as trolls or tools of trump, even if their not voting for Hillary has an effect of helping trump.
Squinch
(51,053 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)emulatorloo
(44,211 posts)As you say, they don't speak for Bernie and they certainly don't speak for or represent the majority of Sanders primary supporters.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Don't give up on other B or B deadenders you come across.
You sound like a fair-minded and rational person, and maybe some of them will listen.
mindfulNJ
(2,367 posts)I believe that the Bernie or Busters were never really Dems anyway, and probably wouldn't even been a part of the process if Bernie hadn't run. I am also saying this as a Bernie supporter.
Trump is unthinkable.
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)But were willing to cross over to the Dems to vote for Bernie in November because he is one of the few people associated with the Democratic Party they consider to be progressive enough.
David__77
(23,558 posts)In 2008, there were Clinton supporters who voted for McCain. There are lots of people in the country. Stuff happens.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)This has led to Hillary supporters acting like Bernie supporters are the enemy.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Bernie's delegates, inside the convention, chanting LOCK HER UP at delegate breakfasts this morning.
https://twitter.com/DaveMontero/status/757577543033753600
Bernie delegates inside the convention being interviewed on MSNBC saying they will never vote for Hillary, that she belongs in prison, that they are voting for Trump.
So how are they different?
Edited to add: I am talking about the specific Bernie delegates who are disrupting and behaving like boors, NOT the many who I know will support our Democratic ticket.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)And I say this as an ardent Bernie supporter.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I don't think there was even 5.
BTW: Are we SURE these are actual delegates?
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)The CA Bernie delegates have been behaving like utter asses all day. They booed Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Lee for mentioning Hillary.
They booed NANCY PELOSI. At the DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION.
They have to be delegates - they're in the convention. You're not allowed to go in as a member of the public. It's delegates or press only.
But I hope you're right. I hope they're a tiny minority. Because if they loudly boo Michelle Obama, or President Obama, or our wonderful nominee, I swear to god I'm getting on a f*cking plane. Philly is MY city (my hometown) and they DO NOT DO THAT.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I am not.
Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)I agree that the VAST MAJORITY of Bernie supporters are good-hearted and passionate, mindful people of good will who will support the Democratic ticket up and down to ensure his agenda moves forward.
A Trump election is the death of liberal progress in this country for decades to come.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It is NOT supposed to be 100% for any given candidate. If it were they wouldn't need to adopt the other candidates ideas to win support.
Bottom line is we aren't the ones who demand everyone fall in line, that's Republicans.
Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)Those fuckers are just Repuke/Putin voters in Green clothing. Fuck them, they should be ejected.
Fine for people to show support for the candidate of their choice. NOT okay for them to act TRUMP SUPPORTERS at the Democratic Convention.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Bernie has about 1,900 delegates there on the convention floor.
Tone down the outrage over seeing what you consider to be treason.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Hekate
(90,865 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Calm down and realize this is no big deal. It doesn't help Trump win.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)People are rightly pissed at this dipshit behavior
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)This is the way conventions go.
People don't obediently give up on the person they supported.
shireen
(8,333 posts)I cannot begin to understand why they would call themselves Sanders supporters.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Saviolo
(3,283 posts)Seem to have pivoted to Hillary just as Bernie has encouraged them to do. Excellent.
The small minority who decided to vote Green may yet come around if things get dicey in the general. If things start getting close, I hope they'll see that they're working at odds with their interests by helping elect Trump.
As for the ones who say they'd vote for Trump before Hillary. The fuck out of here. You are legit crazy. Trump's proud that he's bought and sold influence on the political stage, and Bernie wants to end that. Trump wants everything run like a business or by big business, and Bernie has always fought for more government programs to assist those that need it. Their philosophies are diametrically opposed. Anyone who said they supported Bernie and now supports Trump is so politically unaware that I'll be surprised if they can even find the voting booth.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)We all need to be clear on what the actual data are and on the methodology used to acquire it.
Saviolo
(3,283 posts)The same Pew research reported by TruthDig:
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/new_survey_finds_85_percent_of_sanders_supporters_vote_for_clinton_20160713
This Washington Times article uses a PPP poll:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/10/bernie-sanders-supporters-outpace-candidate-in-jum/
Pew polling suggests that 85% (the vast majority) of Bernie supporters will pivot to Hillary in the general, and the PPP poll indicates about 79% (still the vast majority) will pivot to Hillary.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)So we can have a meaningful conversation.
Saviolo
(3,283 posts)And I've seen them thrown around on this board a few times, so I felt it would be redundant to post it again, but if you're having trouble finding the research, I hope I was able to help some.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Plus, it's not that these numbers are not going to change with time! Hopefully in a good direction.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)of our situation needs their head examined.
Beyond that, try reading Hillary's positions once. Sh supports 95 % of what we Berners have been fighting for. The more I read and listen, the more I like her.
Is she perfect? No. Will she be a good President? Yeah I really think so. Better than Trump? Of that I am 1000 % certain!
Jill Stein? Gary Johnson? Puhleeeeease!
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)We are all waiting to see that.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Welcome to IGNORE!!
brer cat
(24,625 posts)Some people beg to be ignored and should be accommodated.
Loki
(3,825 posts)Best thing since sliced bread especially since ther intent is to disrupt and harass.
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)Most people tend to ignore the data anyway when you post. Why is the objective data so important to you. The data on polling B.S. supporters has been posted about 20-30 x in these forums. And no I am not going to go look up those exact threads and write them down. The data on voyting records has not been posted as frequently but it also has been posted several times. B
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Oh, dunno... Not a subjective kind of gal, I guess.
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)Hillary PAC. Like I said this data was in enough threads that I wondered if you were new to DU and hadn't seen those threads, but I see your not from your transparency page.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)Do we want a Nazi in charge? Cause this is how you get a Nazi in charge.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)--- now's your chance to find out and show your colors.
Blue Idaho
(5,060 posts)"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing."
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)I'm getting so sick of the hand-wringing over the DNC, which pales in comparison to what Trump/Pence will do.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)The crazies are causing this potential disaster, not the vast majority of Bernie supporters.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)or they are incredibly naive to the ways of politics.
Powdered Toast Man
(381 posts)Republicans "fall in line."
However I can't name a single one of my republican friends who are looking forward to voting for Trump. I imagine most of them just won't vote.
Qutzupalotl
(14,337 posts)so your characterization that they were naive might well be spot-on. They were roused and passionate, and perhaps had never suffered such a loss in an election. They don't know how to handle it, so they just lash out blindly.
I think the reality of the situation will settle in with them by the end of the week.
For me, Bernie's loss was like watching the Bush v Gore decision all over again. Sucks, but what can you do but pick yourself up and keep doing what you can.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)People will show....is Bernie is an ineffective leader...otherwise they would respect him and his opinion...it's more of a blemish on Bernie than anything else....I'm feeling bad for the sanders people who have to watch their movement trashed by the malcontents...
mcar
(42,403 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)My new CT is going to be that it is the media paying these people. Any way to create drama!
LiberalFighter
(51,170 posts)At least for those that mostly involved themselves in just turning out to vote. As for those attending as Bernie delegates there may be too many that are disrespectful.
Even some Bernie delegates were upset about the behavior of other Bernie delegates at our state convention. Most of the bad ones will likely disappear after this election.
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)Look at what has been going on during the lead up to the convention on this board, did no one think the nastiness would continue?
It's an embarrassment, one that could have been avoided without the "Take it to Philly" mantra that was supported and perpetuated by Bernie and his supporters.
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)He gave Hillary a full-throated endorsement and stuck by it even after the email leak. What more do you want from him?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,716 posts)Thank you.
Hekate
(90,865 posts)...to his booing audience: This is real life.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)"It's probably better to have them inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
On balance, I prefer the Bernie-or-Busters over the sociopaths that Trump is bringing into his party.
I have met Bernie-or-Busters (1) who will sit out this election, (2) who will write in Sanders, (3) who will vote for Jill Stein, and (4) who will vote for Johnson-Weld, and (5) I have also met former Bernie-or-Busters who have come around and will now vote for Hillary.
I know there is a sixth category of Bernie-or-Busters -- I know they exist -- but I have never yet met anyone who once supported Sanders but who now supports Trump.
NOTE: I have not made my mind up about how I will vote and contribute, but it will NOT be for Trump or for Johnson-Weld, and the bulk of my efforts will likely be focused on turning the Senate blue.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)What do most of Clinton and Sanders supporters have in common?
They kick ass.
Thanks for this.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Speaking as one myself,
I don't stereotype his supporters.
We're the big tent party. Differences of opinion is part of our charms
drm604
(16,230 posts)I am really getting fed up with some of my fellow supporters. I founded and administered a Bernie meetup group and the man I made my assistant administrator for the group is a Bernie or buster. He's in his 40s so he doesn't have the excuse of youthful idealism.
I've stopped being active or scheduling meetups for the group, but people are STILL joining it! Why would you join a support group for a candidate who is out of the race?
As in your example of people walking away from attempted discussion, they will not brook any attempt at discussion about it, however civil it might be. Instead, they take offense and start going on about how you are trying to usurp their vote and how they will not be shamed or guilted into changing it.
The fact that so many of them are using the same words in the same order, like "usurp" and "shamed or guilted", makes me wonder if they aren't scripted talking points coming from some source like the Russians or the Trump campaign.
NanceGreggs
(27,820 posts)... but you have no need to apologize on anyone's behalf.
It's the "crazies" who owe an apology, not the level-headed people who accepted that Bernie lost the primary and moved on to support the Party and its nominee.
wryter2000
(46,099 posts)We know they're a small group, and they're not really Democrats at all.
HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)I supported Bernie also.
csziggy
(34,139 posts)How fucking crass is that? I'm not religious but I do believe in respect.
To see people doing this after Bernie Sanders' call to support Hillary Clinton is revolting.
These few idiots give all Bernie Sanders' supporters a bad name. Sen. Sanders is trying to promote party unity and to save the country from the fascism that a Donald Trump presidency would bring.
The people being so disrespectful during the opening prayer are not supporting anything - they are just trying to tear things apart.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
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Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)You count yourself against our nominee, which puts you squarely in the Putin/Trump camp. Clearly DU may not be a good fit for you.
aintitfunny
(1,421 posts)And I stand with him in his support for Hillary Clinton. I had no doubt that he would fully support the nominee, even before the orange Satan won the Republican primary.
I don't feel the need to apologize for people who are a few screws light. While I won't apologize for them, I will not support their fantasies. I do not support anyone who puts their imagined principles above the well-being of this Nation.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Bernie has my heart
Hillary has my vote
matt819
(10,749 posts)Their attitudes are delusional and their behavior disgusting. And here I thought Dems lived in the reality-based universe. Guess not.
Regardless of their demographic, their behavior is childish and insulting. It's terrifying that their attitudes and voting could potentially be very destructive.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Because our #1 goal should be to keep Donald Trump OUT of the White House as Democrats!
My entire family were/are Bernie supporters but we will be damned if we want a President Trump because our candidate did not win the Primary.
PLEASE do not attempt to tell me there is no difference between Hillary and The Donald.
Fla Dem
(23,785 posts)level headed individuals. Those who continue to raise chaos do not care about the end result, only for immediate gratification.
eissa
(4,238 posts)I live in California, so by the time our primary rolled around, it was pretty certain that HRC would be the nominee. I was fine with that; been through enough elections to realize that sometimes your candidate wins, and sometimes they don't. But man-oh-man, did I have a tough time with his supporters. I couldn't believe the level of petulance and outright hostility they were displaying, right down to mimicking Trump's insults. They almost made me reconsider my vote, that's how disgusted I became with them. In the end, I voted for Bernie simply because I like the man and what he stands for. And if his supporters truly understood his message, then they would realize that revolutions don't end with an election, nor do they happen overnight. The fight goes on, and we have more chances of victory for our agenda with Bernie in the Senate and HRC in the WH.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)MarkEzra
(27 posts)The Constitution of The United States of America. Not some person. Not some notion of left or right. No election in my lifetime has EVER put our constitution in such peril as this.
Clausewitz said: War as Politics by other Means. Well this year Politics is War. The stakes aren't the cost of living or the amount of my social security. It's our national souls as laid out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Don't think so? Just ask the Russians and their pimp, Donald Trump.
Democrats will need Allies it can count on. I plan to look for them door to door if need be. After all there is a first time for everything!
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)Those assholes NEVER were or will be Democrats.
False flag Trump operatives more like it. Or just sleazebag morons.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...is a stand-up guy and everyone is grateful to him and those who have listened to him and respected his message. We can't win without him, and without you.
And we know--most of us know or should know--that these are crazies and are there to act out their wishes (to disrupt, be heard, have their way), not that of any Democrat they say they represent.
I was worried when I woke to all this news this morning. I was really afraid that the DU would fracture into petty bickering and disunity, as would the DNC--feeding the media, giving the GOP a chance to gleefully rub their hands together and cackle with joy.
But posts like this have me relieved. Let the crazies chant. We're stronger together, and can wether any little squall or storm. All we need do is remember what's most important--getting as many of OUR candidates into the White House and into Congress. And into Governors mansions and onto school boards for that matter. This is about more than electing one woman. This is about keeping the whole country on the right course.
Here we go.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I have never viewed supporting Sanders as any kind of transgression. The behavior of some Sanders supporters was always the issue. I'm sorry you have experienced the abuse. Just know it's them not you.
pnwmom
(109,009 posts)Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
Post removed
shireen
(8,333 posts)And I'm not taking your bait.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Akamai
(1,779 posts)who now does not support Hillary -- as Bernie is going to do -- does not care about what is best for this country, for the planet, etc.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Akamai
(1,779 posts)I am sure that Bernie himself would speak very strongly to those Bernie-or-busters, and maybe he will give a strong statement tonight regarding this.
I can see Bernie saying, "I want you to listen clearly to me -- we must support Secretary Clinton! She is a strong, thoughtful candidate and is working for progressive issues as she has for her whole life!"
Third Doctor
(1,574 posts)One has to balance idealism with pragmatism. Bernie was my first choice but he didn't win so I accept Hillary. To get angry and declare you are voting for Stein especially in a swing state is only helping Trump. If something needs to be fixed with the DNC we can address that later. We have a WAR to fight.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)So far it's not a united party and that's being reflected at the convention, where Clinton's name is being met with boos.. Hopefully something can be worked out before the end and the Party can unify against Trump.. But at this point who knows?
Will I apologize for those people who are exercising their right to voice their displeasure over the way the DNC worked against their candidate?
Hell No!!
LisaM
(27,843 posts)I was for Hillary in 2008 and I would have found this kind of behavior intolerable.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)What if Obama supporters in the DNC were caught trying to sway the election away from Hillary? You actually think the Hillary delegates would not have been outraged? Especially hearing about it just hours before the convention...
LisaM
(27,843 posts)Donna Brazile went to great lengths not to appear on television so she wouldn't be sandbagged by questions about Bernie, and she made a fairly innocuous comment about Bernie endorsing DWS's opponent. The emails weren't damning at all. People are falling for headlines.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Just the fact that they were working with the media to bring up Sander's religious beliefs because they thought it might hurt him in southern states is enough.
They were creating narratives that Sander's campaign is disorganized Colluding with the media..
These aren't just headlines..
This isn't Hillary campaign staff this is the governing body of the Democratic Party...
LisaM
(27,843 posts)and I think the apology was likewise completely unnecessary. But it still won't appease Sanders' supporters, so it's pointless to even offer it.
The DNC went out of its way to accept Bernie, a non Democrat, and this is the thanks they get.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)What party denies millions of voters, including young voters that are the future of the party..
Sorry you fail to see the danger of the governing body of the Democratic Party favoring a specific candidate over another.. Part of the reason so many people are losing faith in the system and leaving the Democratic Party. Also why we're so hopelessly divided..
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)actual power.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)There were times when I felt that the primary was getting so ugly I didn't know where it was going to end, but then Sanders's behavior reminded me that he is a well-intentioned person with values that more or less resemble mine (I will never be persuaded that people living in higher cost-of-living areas shouldn't have a higher minimum wage) and I would like to say that it is clear to me that most Sanders supporters are wonderful and decent people with good values.
In future years, we'll all look at this and cringe.
Response to democrattotheend (Original post)
jtunes This message was self-deleted by its author.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)jtunes
(74 posts)is that gorgeous dog?
mountain grammy
(26,659 posts)who's hatred for Hillary obscures all. That's a Trump supporter, and not a Bernie supporter and I refuse to apologize for those who were never on my side in the first place.
I always have been, and always will be, a more liberal Democrat than Hillary. I don't like her foreign policy or Wall Street connections nor her past positions on trade, criminal justice, the drug war, and marriage equality. She's changed with the times, and that's good, but my dear, departed mother, born in 1912, never had to "evolve" and neither did I. That said, I will be voting for the Clinton ticket and for all other Democrats. I set aside funds to donate to down ticket candidates all around America. I will also (though I swore I never would) put a Clinton/Kaine sign in my window.
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)I don't thin many of these people really support Bernie anyway. Real supporters are like you.
Peacetrain
(22,880 posts)I talked to a friend for almost a half hour today.. a Bernie supporter locally who was just outraged..by someone she saw on TV claiming to be a Bernie supporter who said they would vote for Trump..
I am going to tell you the same thing I told my friend.. There are some loose cannons who do not reflect your philosophical point of view and why you supported Senator Sanders.. We are first and foremost DEMOCRATS..
Sometimes we just have goofballs on our side too.. what can you do..
Craig234
(335 posts)Hillary is the most disliked Democratic nominee in history since they tracked it.
The issue isn't that people feel frustrated with the state of the party and some candidates.
The issue we disagree with them on is their putting their dislike for Hillary as more important than the harm of trump winning.
That means we disagree with them but not that they're crazies, and calling them that doesn't help any more than their calling you that for NOT refusing to support the problems.
MFM008
(19,823 posts)The ones that have been TOLD ABOUT HER.
For 25 years republicans and HRC/Clinton haters.
The biggest pile on in HISTORY.
Fools believe this crap,
all of us will suffer if that repulsive hooting ape gets in to the white house.
Craig234
(335 posts)Don't falsely equate the Republican lies with the progressive disagreements.
Bernie said in his strong endorsement speech he disagrees on issues. That doesn't make him a "Benghazi" opponent of Hillary.
still_one
(92,454 posts)respect for people like Elijah Cummings, who was continuously interrupted on his speech on Civil Rights.
They should be ashamed of themselves
duncang
(1,907 posts)To me he is a true American who wants the best for the country. He has worked really hard for the average person. But I think those who are trying to disrupt the convention are not only hurting the DNC, but also hurting Bernie's future. I would love it to see Bernie signs in the crowd as a show of support for his ideas. But not this. This to me will turn off a lot of people from the movement he has been working on so long.
well said!
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,374 posts)... for being too right-wing.
This lesser-light "Bernie-Bro" will choose the Democratic ticket.
LostinRed
(840 posts)In a year you'll never find anyone admit they voted for Jill Stein just like one admits they voted for Nader.
JSup
(740 posts)...these people Bernie supporters (as they're not supporting him right now) so you have nothing to apologize for.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)I blame the two party system that always leads to this type of situation
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I agree.
JudyM
(29,294 posts)are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with these leaks. There is much more nefarious and extremely un-Democratic activity that has taken place under the auspices of the DNC. There are lawsuits that have been filed, and we will see more in the coming months. Here's something else that came out just today. https://www.facebook.com/notes/election-justice-usa/two-new-reports-conclude-evidence-of-fraud-in-the-2016-democratic-primaries-coul/923718327754861
Protest is American, it is free speech. This is IMO, legitimate protest, coming at a time when some of this is just being disclosed. If it had been Bernie's team that was lacking proper controls on their ethics, I assure you I would not be clamoring to stifle Clinton's supporters' objections. These are new disclosures and people are rightfully upset, IMO.
And this is not a post slamming Clinton. I am planning to vote for her in November because tRump is no doubt worse.
But there are no apologies necessary, IMO, for legitimate unrest that was the doing of the DNC, not the Russians, unless they created the emails themselves. We need fair elections, both in the GE and the Primaries.
mrsv
(209 posts)Bernie supporters have a right to be outraged and furious with the DNC and Hillary. Throughout the primary we cried foul and people dismissed us...here it is in your face...But I'm voting for Hillary.. I do realize the dangerous of a Trump presidency...NO UNIONS...NO MINIMUM WAGE....NO GAY MARRIAGE.NO SAFE ABORTIONS..CUTS TO SOCIAL SECURITY...NO OBAMACARE..PRIVATIZED MEDICARE...MUSLIM ROUNDUP...PEOPLE FIGHTING...THE SUPREME COURT...WALLSTREET...and I don't even want to talk about world affairs ...so let them be outraged..on tv...let them embarassed the party..everyone needs to know we are mad as hell...but when I cast my vote for Hillary...it's not because I support her...it's because I'm voting against Trump and so will many other Bernie supporters
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)Skittles
(153,226 posts)did you read DU during the primaries?
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)My point being is that if they say they are Bernie supporters and then undermine his goals, then there were never really Bernie supporters at all.
Just fans of a movement.
Skittles
(153,226 posts)which is HIGHLY possible
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)to stop this slide into madness. Thank you.
Skittles
(153,226 posts)what a bunch of LOSERS
whopis01
(3,525 posts)I agree with you completely.
Sanders was a good candidate with good ideas. He isn't who the party chose.
The worst part is that Sanders had earned enough support to have his ideas hold weight in the party platform. But idiots like these people have done everything humanly possible to drag him and his ideas down the drain.
What a squandered opportunity.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#00009d]One of Bernies major goals was to change the party from within.
These people never supported that. They never cared about the democratic party or what Sanders was trying to achieve. Real Bernie supporters understand this and will support the Democratic Nominee. They will vote for Clinton.
I feel Bernie or busters are undermining everything Bernie fought so hard for! He wouldn't become a democrat and run in the democratic primary with a deck stacked against him for months and months if he didn't care about the democratic party![/font]
PS: [font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#00009d]I love your banner. Can I steal it? Please![/font]
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)Just click on it.
From the number of them that have sold so far, I am somewhat optimistic that many Bernie supporters are not like the rude jackasses who were booing inappropriately earlier.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Let people be angry about what they are angry about.
As for me, I stand alone.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)They do not represent the true spirit of this campaign.
pansypoo53219
(21,004 posts)tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)eom
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)Most of us aren't crazy, and are gladly voting for Hillary. But I'm pretty disappointed (to say the least) with the hecklers at the convention tonight.
CanonRay
(14,121 posts)Kennah
(14,337 posts)shireen
(8,333 posts)I don't understand that attitude. I'm no fan of Hillary but I trust Bernie's judgment. If he's willing to support her, I'll follow his lead.
The primaries are in the past, and it's time to obliterate The Big Orange Giant Gas Planet.
AllyCat
(16,236 posts)I was stunned at the outbursts over speakers we all wanted to hear. However, I agree with Gwen Moore: this is how we get our message out in the Dem Party. And that's okay. Hopefully, the man I supported in the primaries succeeded in changing the minds of the people there who felt the way the do.
ronnykmarshall
(35,356 posts)DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)Not any of you who are reasonable people, which are the vast MAJORITY of Bernie supporters. The BoB people, well, I don't know what to do about them, other than to ignore them. They're hateful.
I was at work for the first night of Convention, and will be at work tomorrow as well, so I'll be depending on everyone here to tell me what's happened.
I DID watch the speech he gave this morning, and I was offended on his behalf that they were booing him. That's just fickle and trollish.
WIProgressive88
(314 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,374 posts)Those Bernie supporters whom I know personally are like you and always have been!
I think that you hit the nail on the head when you say "professed support for Bernie." If they REALLY supported Bernie, they would not only be listening to what he says but be supporting the Dem candidate and no one else.
Perhaps these few will mature someday - but that day may not occur in 2016.
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)I don't know how anyone who claims to support him can't see that/
Gothmog
(145,667 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Eject em.
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)as a Hillary supporter to give you your 200 rec. I accept your apology too
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)There's no need for you to aologise for other peoples actions. As long as you are not justfying, encouraging or rationalizing the BoB's behavior then i would say your on the right track. Now lets go kick tRump ass.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)ronnykmarshall
(35,356 posts)xoxox
azureblue
(2,154 posts)But the "Bernie supporters" were a bit too organized for me, and too disruptive in the right places. Their tactic of trying to drown out the most effective speakers was very telling. As if they had a plan going in, to try to wreck the whole convention, not just support Sanders. Who, by the way, told them to support Clinton, which they just ignored.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I don't hang out with the crazies. We don't have weekly meetings. We don't go bowling together or belong to the same fucking book club. I'm not apologizing for their behavior and anyone who thinks I should can go forth and heartily fuck themselves.
More than 13 million people voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primaries. A minute percentage of them are blustering about in their seats, and everyone's acting like it's fucking 1968.
c-ville rook
(45 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:03 PM - Edit history (1)
Yes Trump is hideous. And yes we really need Clinton to win.
But you cannot tell people their crazy the system is fair when they know it is not. Then when they have proof -- you cannot pretend to apologize while calling them crazy.
That is not an apology. That is digging out from under and hoping to dump some of the blame.
At that point you are the emotionally abusive significant other, not an "organized" political party.
cstanleytech
(26,334 posts)I suspect a good chunk of them were only Bernie supporters for as long as it looked like he might cause problems for the Democrats in the upcoming election vs Trump and now that they see he isnt going to dance to their tune they are simply trying to disrupt however they can.
Wibly
(613 posts)Wagging fingers and referring the Sanders supporters is not going to win them over.
Prove to them you are different, that you are mature, and capable of hearing dissenting opinions without revert to childish name calling and finger wagging, then you might win them over.
Until then, the lot of you who are putting Sanders supporters down are just handing the election to Trump.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Curious if they were youngsters.