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Honest_Abe

(155 posts)
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 05:39 PM Sep 2016

Looking for comments before I post this where my Republican friends will see it...

It seems to me that this should be in some sort of a blog, but I don’t have a blog, so here it is:
I often do appearances as Abraham Lincoln. When I portray President Lincoln, I try to keep modern politics entirely out of it. I usually respond with “I have been out of politics for 150 years, and I think I’ll stay retired” whenever someone asks me what I think of a particular modern political topic. But Trump said something last night that hit a nerve, and I feel like I have to respond.
Speaking at a Black church in Detroit last night, Trump was not attempting to sway Black voters. He was clearly attempting to ease the consciences of White voters who are trying hard to not believe that Trump is racist.
He said: "A lot of people don't realize that Abraham Lincoln — the great Abraham Lincoln — was a Republican," Trump said. "It is on his legacy that I hope to build the future of the party."
As one who studies a lot about President Lincoln, this made me throw up a little bit in my mouth. IMHO Donald Trump is far removed from Abraham Lincoln in every way I can think of:
Abraham Lincoln famously appointed his bitterest rivals to his cabinet. He understood that he could make the best decisions by listening to opposing viewpoints as well as his own, and THEN making his decision based on his best judgment. Trump famously fires (“You’re Fired!”) anyone who disagrees with him. He clearly expects everyone around him to be a sycophant. This is why he has had three (at least) people leading his campaign committee.
Even Lincoln was known to shade the truth a little from time to time, as every President has. I have noted before that Lincoln said, when running against Douglas, that “I have never said publicly that I believe that the races should be treated equally” (paraphrased), if you read it carefully, he isn’t saying that he currently believes the races shouldn’t be treated equally, but that is clearly what he is trying to convey. But Trump clearly has no relationship with the real world. He makes up facts faster than the fact-checkers can debunk them. Over 90% of the statements by Trump have been found to be Mostly False, False, or Pants on Fire. Lincoln once told a student “If you can’t be an honest lawyer, be an honest something else.” Telling people that “more police are being killed than ever before” is not only demonstrably false, the fact is that police are less likely to be killed on the job than at any time in the last 30 years. The same holds for his assertion that Muslims are allowed to immigrate without being fully vetted (utter hogwash) and countless other similar assertions he makes every day.
And while Trump is famous for his thin skin and belittling everyone who disagrees with him, referring to “Crooked Hillary” (Who is he, awaiting trial for racketeering and fraud, to call anyone “crooked”?), and calling Rosie O’Donnell “ugly” for disagreeing with him (Where does he get off calling anyone else ugly?), Lincoln was famous for respecting his rivals adversaries. I don’t recall a single instance after his near-duel with James Shields (after which they became friends) when Lincoln resorted to name-calling. Whenever someone calls out Trump on one of his many lies, his response is ALWAYS “He’s a bad journalist” or “Her ratings are lousy”, or famously “She has blood coming out of her wherever.” It is never ever an actual defense of the lie.
Trump’s policies seem to closely match the “Know-Nothing” party of Lincoln’s time, which closely matches the KKK and other white supremacist organizations of today, who seem to unanimously endorse Trump. Lincoln said “I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? … Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we begin by declaring that ‘all men are created equal.’ We now practically read it ‘all men are created equal, except negroes.’ When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read ‘all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics.’ When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty-to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy.”
Rather interesting, given Trump’s ties to Russian investors.
Trump’s comparisons of himself to Lincoln are deeply offensive to me.
End of rant. For now.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Looking for comments before I post this where my Republican friends will see it... (Original Post) Honest_Abe Sep 2016 OP
sounds good to me. chillfactor Sep 2016 #1
Well said! librarylu Sep 2016 #2
He learned from his mistakes. Honest_Abe Sep 2016 #5
It was a complicated issue. librarylu Sep 2016 #6
"A lot of people don't realize that Abraham Lincoln...was a Republican." ailsagirl Sep 2016 #3
I think he's talking about himself a few weeks ago... sarae Sep 2016 #29
I think you're right ailsagirl Sep 2016 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Sep 2016 #4
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2016 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Sep 2016 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2016 #28
Rub GOP noses in the truth vlyons Sep 2016 #7
the Republican party radically changed directions in 1968 0rganism Sep 2016 #8
DKSS... czarjak Sep 2016 #9
And here's the response from your republican friends: Mr.Bill Sep 2016 #10
Good. Change wording of one phrase Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2016 #11
Yes, where else would one throw up? longship Sep 2016 #15
Just say "I was disgusted". . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2016 #17
Yes, keep it concise. Like Churchill, plain language. nt longship Sep 2016 #18
My wife told me the same thing. Honest_Abe Sep 2016 #19
My favorite Lincoln quote: SCantiGOP Sep 2016 #12
You have Republican friends. Pakid Sep 2016 #13
Yeah. Honest_Abe Sep 2016 #20
When talking to Republicans... Binkie The Clown Sep 2016 #14
Well its hard enough as it is to convince an intelligent person of something. airplaneman Sep 2016 #21
You forgot to add women Sophiegirl Sep 2016 #23
Not sure I understand. Honest_Abe Sep 2016 #24
You wrote.. Sophiegirl Sep 2016 #25
You are right of course... Honest_Abe Sep 2016 #26
Ok Sophiegirl Sep 2016 #27

Honest_Abe

(155 posts)
5. He learned from his mistakes.
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 06:06 PM
Sep 2016

He listened to Frederick Douglass and realized the error. He admitted his mistakes (another think Trump has never done.)

librarylu

(503 posts)
6. It was a complicated issue.
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 06:41 PM
Sep 2016

Was equality even an idea at the time except among the wild-eyed abolitionists?

Given the "differences" and the "hostile attitude" of the whites Lincoln favored colonisation and/or sending the slaves to Liberia: “better for us both, therefore, to be separated.” That was in 1862. Andrew Jackson apparently thought he was protecting southeastern native people by "deporting" them to the west. More recently there were the camps for Japanese/Americans in WWll, supposedly for their own protection. Now Trump wants a wall and the deportation of a mere 11 million or so people for our own protection. Lots of evil gets done in the name of good.

I just hope Trump doesn't promise to bring back segregation. That might give him a bump.

ailsagirl

(22,897 posts)
3. "A lot of people don't realize that Abraham Lincoln...was a Republican."
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 05:51 PM
Sep 2016

Oh, really? I've known it practically from the time I could read!!

Wonder who he's talking about.

Thanks for your rant!!

sarae

(3,284 posts)
29. I think he's talking about himself a few weeks ago...
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:22 PM
Sep 2016

you know, right around the time he found out that Lincoln was a Republican.

Response to Honest_Abe (Original post)

Response to MichiganVote (Reply #4)

Response to Name removed (Reply #16)

Response to MichiganVote (Reply #22)

0rganism

(23,955 posts)
8. the Republican party radically changed directions in 1968
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 07:07 PM
Sep 2016

the taproot of Nixon's "Southern Strategy" was slurping the ex-Dixiecrats into the Republican party after Democratic president LBJ signed various civil rights legislation into law.

it worked.

in 1980, Reagan expanded the strategy when he brought in the evangelicals and found a message that unified interests of the rich MIC controllers with fundamentalist Christianity with racism.

it worked.

the Republican party has changed much in the last 50 years, let alone since Lincoln's time. in fairness, so has the Democratic party.

Mr.Bill

(24,300 posts)
10. And here's the response from your republican friends:
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 07:21 PM
Sep 2016

"But every thing Hillary says is a lie."

But Hillary is a crook."

But Hillary is brain damaged and is dying."

Benghazi, Clinton Foundation is a Clinton slush fund, Bill is a rapist, etc.

That's all you'll generate from any republican friends who are brain washed low IQ Trump fans.


Now, if you have some republican friends who don't like Trump and don't believe his bullshit, your op might generate some intelligent discussion. Best of luck to you. I don't know your friends, but I have plenty of republicans friends I would like to stay friends with and I have been avoiding discussing politics with them or avoiding them all together.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
11. Good. Change wording of one phrase
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 07:30 PM
Sep 2016

"this made me throw up a little bit in my mouth" is rather grade-school stuff. Update for adult tone.

longship

(40,416 posts)
15. Yes, where else would one throw up?
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 07:42 PM
Sep 2016

It is a meme that I have never understood how it even became a meme.

It is more than childish. It is simple.

SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
12. My favorite Lincoln quote:
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 07:32 PM
Sep 2016

(Paraphrased): In my life, I have destroyed many of my enemies - I made them my friends.

Of course, Trump would proudly end that quote just before the hyphen, and then smirk with great satisfaction.

Pakid

(478 posts)
13. You have Republican friends.
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 07:34 PM
Sep 2016

Why? Every Republican I knew quite being friends with me when I put the first Obama sign in my yard in 2008 who needs them!!!

Honest_Abe

(155 posts)
20. Yeah.
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:19 PM
Sep 2016

I have a Republican friend who is male, married to his (black) husband, and he remains a member of the Republican party. I can't figure out why, but I like the guy anyway.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
14. When talking to Republicans...
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 07:42 PM
Sep 2016

Slogans of three to five words in length are optimal.

Up to seven words are acceptable if at least three of them are highly emotionally charged.

Full paragraphs are strongly discouraged. Their eyes will glaze over when confronted by a block of more than 12 or 14 words.

airplaneman

(1,239 posts)
21. Well its hard enough as it is to convince an intelligent person of something.
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:34 PM
Sep 2016

It is impossible to convince an ignorant person of anything I am afraid to say.
Good luck though you might get throught to someone inbetween.
-Airpalne

Honest_Abe

(155 posts)
24. Not sure I understand.
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:52 PM
Sep 2016

Could you clarify?
For the record, Lincoln lost one of his earliest elections because he said that some women should be given the right to vote.

Sophiegirl

(2,338 posts)
25. You wrote..
Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:56 PM
Sep 2016

"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read ‘all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics."

I'd add women to that list.

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