Let's accept that Pence was prepared, poised and had good "temperment" last night...

[brooklynite]

...what kind of bar does that set for Trump on Sunday?

[imanamerican63]

1. His bar won't get off the ground!!!

[Raven]

2. Excellent point. Pence reminds me of a funeral director.

Not someone I'd want to have a beer with. Pence probably reassured some of the wobbly voters in Trump's base but I don't think he brought any new voters in.

[Raine1967]

3. Some have said that Trump was angry about Pence' performance:

I came across this, this morning:

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/many-people-are-saying-that-donald-trump-is-mad-about-m-1787428755?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

After Donald Trump’s disaster of a debate performance last week, you’d think he’d be happy to get any sort of positive press at all. But according to multiple people citing sources close to the campaign—Donald Trump is furious at being outperformed by Mike Pence.

There are tweets from reporters in the link.


This, coupled with WaPo's report that 4 people had to sit with him during his so-called live tweeting, makes me believe that he will melt down Sunday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/04/donald-trump-will-be-live-tweeting-the-vp-debate-with-four-aides-by-his-side/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b

But the vice presidential debate wasn't 5:30 a.m., and Trump wasn't necessarily unfiltered. His spokesman said there were four aides by his side as he watched the debate in Nevada:


Vaughn Hillyard @VaughnHillyard
Aides present tonight as Trump live tweets, per Jason Miller:
Steve Bannon
Hope Hicks
Stephen Miller
Dan Scavino

[Wounded Bear]

23. So Pence was expected to win...

while not out performing Trump in his spectacular failure.

Sounds about right from a petty tyrant like him.

[treestar]

29. figures that it what is most important to the donald

has to be on top no matter what.

[factfinder_77]

4. Lets accept that lying and throwing Trump under the buss for Pences own 2020 run = a win. Lol

Pence was prepared ?
Pence took the high road, never defending Trump and kept on lying. And you think that sets the bar for Trump ?

[NWCorona]

6. Whether you agree with the op or not. Pence was vastly more prepared than Trump.

[4lbs]

9. Pence was preparing for 2020 run. That's it. His weak defense (if you can even call it that)

was little more than shaking his head, and giving a timid "No, he didn't say that."

Now, we will be seeing ads for the next 4 days where yes, he DID say that.

[NWCorona]

13. 2016 vs 2020 is a pointless argument.

[4lbs]

16. It is. Pence didn't even try to defend Trump. He knows this campaign is pretty much lost.

He set himself up for a Presidential run in 2020.

Last night, Pence was all about Pence.

His most vociferous talk was when he was discussing himself or defending himself.

He even meekly attacked Hillary.

If he truly thought they had a realistic chance of winning this year, he would have defended Trump enthusiastically. He didn't.

He just sat there politely giving the audience a "remember me in 4 years" vibe.

[Cakes488]

20. He rarely defends Trashbag and when he does it has to be the "right" topic

[UCmeNdc]

5. So We accept smooth liars now?

That is what wins an argument?

[TheKentuckian]

11. Of course. What is the counter argument? Smooth liars have been doing well in politics for thousands

of years.

Hell, this is America. They don't even have to be that smooth. Already forgot Junior Bush? Do you not see a semi-sentient blabbering and racist yam within shouting distance of the Presidency?

It is very dangerous to conflate would should be with what is because along that path is delusion.

[JohnnyLib2]

7. Odds are that Trump will be outshone again, from both Hillary and Pence.

Fascinating development for Mr. Ego to handle in the next 10 days or so.

[Orsino]

12. And Kaine. One of these things is qualitatively unlike the others.

I foresee nothing but waning poll numbers for Trump, and more significantly a drop in enthusiasm for his turnout.

And I still find it difficult to believe that he will hang around for next month's electoral beat-down. Facing the music, even obliquely, would be completely out of character for him.

[Overseas]

8. K&R. Pence promoted Pence & left erratic bully to fend for himself.

[lonestarnot]

10. A prepared, poised, good tempered dangerous boot licker.

[BSdetect]

15. He's an active attacker of women.

His track record is really appalling

More of a concealed lunatic than drumph but no better.

[bigtree]

14. he looked and sounded like a phony

...typical republican pablum offered up by one of their practiced, inveterate liars.

All of our attack points against Trump were highlighted and amplified in that debate. It was a good set-up for the Trump event.

Trump will continue to lose credibility, as he'll almost certainly be made to answer for the points raised by Tim Kaine last night.

[lonestarnot]

24. I smell SCOTUS appointments blooming!

[etherealtruth]

17. I don't think it impacts the short fingered vulgarian one way or the other (r/t the debate)

I worry that Pence's performance helped alleviate some of the fears that non-straight-up-lunatic conservatives have regarding the short fingered vulgarian .... Pence did not present as an unhinged buffoon with no knowledge of the economy, foreign policy ... I worry that his performance reassured conservatives. I also believe his distancing from the vulgarian's insanity also helped

I still remain confident (not cocky) that Clinton will win ... but this is how I saw the debate (I don't think most voters care about the VP debates)

[BSdetect]

18. mediamatters.org

Has pasted Pence repeatedly in their sub headlines.

At least 8 negative pieces.

[Cakes488]

19. Pence always performs as he did last night...nothing new there.

[retrowire]

21. supposing as many prople watched the vp debate as they did

The presidential debate, I'd say the bar was set higher than Trump can reach.

Pence was scary. He was an agile liar. Quick to deny, pivot and spin. It was horrid. Luckily, Kaine certainly had more ammo about Trump than Pence.

But, Pence was bringing ammo to the debate that I hadn't heard before in a debate. He brought up pro life for instance. Something that's always a touchy subject, especially after their "faith" question was given to them.

Pence is evil as fuck. And it scares me to wonder what this would be like had their ticket been reversed.

[tonyt53]

22. Pence showed that he could lie with a straight face. Selling used cars is in his near future.

[BigMin28]

28. In the

Christo fascist circles that is called "lying for jesus." They actually believe it.

[uponit7771]

30. +1

[underpants]

25. It's time to....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

26. It's sort of like saying he ran the bases well after he was tagged out at first base.

He seemed to deliver his lies fairly well. They were still very documentable lies, however.

[Blue Idaho]

27. Let's have more: "Let's Face it..." "Let's accept..." threads...

There's only a half a dozen or so threads exactly like this one. How many more do you suppose we need on DU?

FWIW - I'm not accepting the basic premise. Just like the premise that Trump "won" the first thirty minutes of the first debate. No - he may have sucked less, but he did not win. Not on style, not on merits. Pence lied his ass off last night. If that's winning you are welcome to it.