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TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 12:28 AM Oct 2016

If Watergate Break-In of DNC Was A Crime, What About Trump/Russia Hacks?

In Watergate, you had burglers with connections to Nixon's campaign wiretapping and stealing documents from the DNC. With Trump, you have the Russians hacking the DNC and Hillary Clinton's campaign, releasing the documents to wikileaks, with wikileaks making the documents public at strategic times with the Trump campaign often seeming to know ahead of time about the content of the leaks. For example, Mike Pence charging that Hillary secretly supports single payer a few days before e-mailed transcripts of Hillary supporting single payer are made public.

Here is a summary of the events behind the Watergate scandal:

http://www.history.com/topics/watergate

The origins of the Watergate break-in lay in the hostile politics of the 1960s. By 1972, when Republican President Richard Nixon (1913-1994) was running for reelection, the United States was embroiled in the Vietnam War (1955-1975) and deeply divided internally. In such a harsh political climate, a forceful presidential campaign seemed essential to the president and some of his key advisers. Their aggressive tactics included what turned out to be illegal espionage. In May 1972, as evidence would later show, members of Nixon’s Committee to Re-Elect the President (known derisively as CREEP) broke into the Democratic National Committee’s Watergate headquarters, stole copies of top-secret documents and bugged the office’s phones.

The wiretaps failed to work properly, however, so on June 17 the group returned to the Watergate building. As the prowlers were preparing to break into the office with a new microphone, a security guard noticed that they had taped the building’s locks. The guard called the police, who arrived just in time to catch the spies red-handed.

It was not immediately clear that the burglars were connected to the president, though suspicions were raised when detectives found copies of the reelection committee’s White House phone number among the burglars’ belongings. In August, Nixon gave a speech in which he swore that his White House staff was not involved in the break-in. Most voters believed him, and in November the president was reelected in a landslide.


Here is Roger Stone bragging about back-channel communications with Julian Assange, as well as reports that the U.S. is finding evidence that Russia intelligence is providing the hacked documents to Assange.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/10/12/trump-ally-roger-stone-admits-back-channel-tie-to-wikileaks/

MIAMI (CBSMiami) – Roger Stone, a self-described master of the political dark arts and the longtime ally of Donald Trump, admits he has had “back-channel communications” with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange over the release of thousands of emails stolen from the Hillary Clinton campaign.

Stone, however, said he was not provided the hacked material in advance nor was he involved in the timing of their release.

I do have a back-channel communication with Assange, because we have a good mutual friend,” Stone told CBS4 News Wednesday evening. “That friend travels back and forth from the United States to London and we talk. I had dinner with him last Monday.”

Assange was granted asylum by the government of Ecuador in 2012 and has resided ever since in that country’s London embassy.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/13/politics/russia-us-election/

There is mounting evidence that the Russian government is supplying WikiLeaks with hacked emails pertaining to the US presidential election, US officials familiar with the investigation have told CNN.

As WikiLeaks continues to publish emails belonging to Clinton campaign chair John Podesta, US officials told CNN that there is growing evidence that Russia is using the organization as a delivery vehicle for the messages and other stolen information.

The methods of the disclosures "suggest Moscow is at least providing the information or is possibly directly responsible for the leaks," one US official said.


US intelligence officials are still investigating the degree of connection between Russia and WikiLeaks but they remain confident that Russia is behind the leaks themselves.


18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
1. I'm sure the FBI is working diligently to put together a case for a grand jury
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 12:32 AM
Oct 2016

2017 will be the worst year of Trump's miserable life.

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
2. If Wikileaks had just did a massive document dump, but the coordination...
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 12:39 AM
Oct 2016

...and timing of the leaks, as well as the fact that the Trump campaign often seems to have a heads up regarding what will be released, makes it hard to think that this is all a coincidence.

Now, if it was the standard discovery of old news tapes, witnesses, and public records, that would appear normal. That is what campaigns do. However, as Watergate showed, you do not just break-in, help yourself and plant bugs.

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
3. I'm sure the FBI knows that Trump people are working with the Russian
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 12:41 AM
Oct 2016

but putting together a case that will sent people to prison takes time. I'm just hoping Trump is one of the people who gets indicted.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
4. I still haven't seen any evidence Russiands hacked the DNC.
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 01:01 AM
Oct 2016

And yet people say they did. I wonder why? I know an IP address in the malware spying on the DNC is a server in Russia. But anyone anywhere on the Internet could set that up. They would just need to know how to hack. That's a lot of suspects. So, who had motive?



I can think of one person, and he has a friend named Roger Stone.

Foggyhill

(1,060 posts)
5. Good grief your own declaration is ridiculous
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 01:25 AM
Oct 2016

Like you would be privy to anything useful
I got decades of sec work and you can get a lot more than that especially in latter attacks were the Feds were already on the lookout
If the gov says it's the Russians, its most likely them
The US gov spends a massive amount on cyber security and trust them more than you...

Response to Foggyhill (Reply #5)

Foggyhill

(1,060 posts)
12. Wow this is a non sequitur
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 10:13 AM
Oct 2016

You declared they had only ip and such claptrap
I've got decade of actual security work and with the resource of the state it's easy to find who did it, especially once you know the target of the attacks

That kind of tech proof wouldn't move you either since you seems to think the US always fabricate evidence while Russia is a beacon of transparency.
This evidence, like all digital evidence is easy to forge so trusting the messenger is important, which you obviously don't

The fact your actually quoting the same Russian who accused the US of lying about the east Ukrainian invasion, the Malaysian flight, the doping scandal that were investigated to death and got physical evidence and still denied, I don't think you are seriously looking for answers or a discussion.

Btw: thinking Russia is doing this doesn't mean I don't think thUS is not doing anything, it likely is, just like the Chinese are doing stuff too.

I'm pretty sure though interfering in democratic elections to such a point is not the case; this is not the case with the Russian intel agencies. They're not that subtle about it in Europe

A well known Kremlyn connected person just floated the idea that nuclear war will result if Trump is not elected, Trump and company keep reciting Russian policy points (latest about Serbia) and somehow this is just some fever dream of the White House

The US has done plenty of fucked up things abroad, especislly the Iraqi invasion, but that doesn't absolve Russia from its own sin

Anyway, you're not really looking for evidence; that's clear, your mind is shut on this subject


 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
14. "A well known Kremlyn connected person" LOL
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 10:24 AM
Oct 2016

You are referring to a leading ultra-nationalist who has zero credibility even in Russia.

My Where is the evidence? in bold twice leads you to follow with "you're not really looking for evidence; that's clear" is the real "Wow this is a non sequitur" here.

Where is the evidence? And I don't mean what some wingnut idiot in Russia predicts is the future of the world.

I retired from teaching Computer Information Systems so I am not naive about internet security. I'm the guy who rooted out George W. Bush's personal computer IP. That was a ton of fun, needless to say. Let me know when you get into Putin's computer.

Foggyhill

(1,060 posts)
16. Man, your self aggrandizement is wholly bizarre
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 10:40 AM
Oct 2016

Your fixation on ip is plain weird especially since just about no computer except those in infrastructure use fixed ips and they're behind firewalls or routers (even in lowly home network)
You could get the MAC address of the interface but even that could easily be spoofed.

So, wtf getting bush's ip even mean. your story makes no sense and i am ignoring you from now on. Don't bother replying.
 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
17. Too bad you didn't take one of my classes.
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 10:43 AM
Oct 2016

Last edited Fri Oct 14, 2016, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Then you would know what I'm talking about.

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
18. However, if RNC Did It Directly...
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 04:07 PM
Oct 2016

...isn't there a great risk of being implicated? By having a foreign government do the hacking, then posting on Wikileaks, you have plausible deniability. Otherwise, it is exactly a repeat of Watergate. I would think that the RNC would learn.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
8. no doubt the FBI and DOJ are fully looking into this and we can all hope for some indictments
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 06:38 AM
Oct 2016

won't happen before the election unfortunately

DeminPennswoods

(15,286 posts)
9. Stone backpedaled in a hurry
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 06:49 AM
Oct 2016

Stone backing off his comment about coordinating with Assange so quickly after the word "espionage" was used should tell you everything you need to know.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
11. The long history of the U.S. interfering with elections elsewhere
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 09:16 AM
Oct 2016

This article has comments by the Russians about the allegation.

[link:The long history of the U.S. interfering with elections elsewhere|The long history of the U.S. interfering with elections elsewhere]

One of the more alarming narratives of the 2016 U.S. election campaign is that of the Kremlin's apparent meddling. Last week, the United States formally accused the Russian government of stealing and disclosing emails from the Democratic National Committee and the individual accounts of prominent Washington insiders.

The hacks, in part leaked by WikiLeaks, have led to loud declarations that Moscow is eager for the victory of Republican nominee Donald Trump, whose rhetoric has unsettled Washington's traditional European allies and even thrown the future of NATO — Russia's bête noire — into doubt.

Leading Russian officials have balked at the Obama administration's claim. In an interview with CNN on Wednesday, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov dismissed the suggestion of interference as “ridiculous,” ..............


Ishaan Tharoor writes about foreign affairs for The Washington Post. He previously was a senior editor at TIME, based first in Hong Kong and later in New York.

Foggyhill

(1,060 posts)
13. What is your point?
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 10:23 AM
Oct 2016

We are talking about the present here.
How would that absolve russia

Lavrov has denied the nose on his face.
Denied Russian inolvement in eastern Ukraine and the doping scandal being state run., when evidence for both is well estsblished

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
15. Some History of Trump Operatives for context
Fri Oct 14, 2016, 10:28 AM
Oct 2016
Some History of Trump Operatives

Deja DU excerpts, many more at link: Bush vs. Gore, the 'Arkansas Project,' the USA firings, and the Swiftboat Admiral

L. Coyote Jun-09-07
44. Donald Trump, Roger Stone, Jack Abramoff, Gaming Gaming and Scalping the Tribes.

How is it that two consumate Republican insiders, both purported specialists in illegal
funding of campaigns, one a political dirty trickster who stays behind the scenes and
the other a felonious convict linked to the White House political office, each manage
to garner tens of millions of dollars from Indian tribes in the gaming rackets? By
working both sides at once, of course. And, how is it that one gets convicted and goes
to jail while the other keeps getting paid? Who is scalping whom for how much, who has
lost their scalp, who still has theirs, and will Donald Trump's hair survive the scandals?

With all the attention to Abramoff defrauding the Tribes, why isn't there more attention on
who else is involved in all of gaming's political machinations and influence peddling?

Who has lucrative contracts to receive a percentage of the gross from Indian casinos, and
how did they obtain it? Where is all that money going? How much ends up in the coffers of
politicos like Sen. John McCain, and why? Who else is scalping the Tribes?

And how much of the scalping goes to legal and illegal campaign contributions?

Questions to be answered.


36. Who is Roger Stone, Jr.? Buckley, Nixon, Reagan, Bush operative.

"Roger J. Stone, Jr. is a long-time Republican dirty-tricks operative who led the mob that shut down the Miami-Dade County recount and helped make George W. Bush president in 2000. He was also a campaign strategist during the presidential campaigns of Presidents Nixon, Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush. .............


........ Roger Stone and the Jack Abramoff mould. Making $$millions$$ gaming gaming.

A Dirty Trickster's Bush Bonanza
The man who stopped Miami recount makes gaming millions
by Wayne Barrett
April 19th, 2004 9:30 AM
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/...........

Roger Stone, the dirty-tricks hobgoblin of Republican politics, has exploited his Bush connections to become an influence-peddling force in the $13 billion Indian gaming industry. Stone's booming business in such a federally regulated enterprise makes his recent pro bono orchestration of Al Sharpton's double-edged presidential campaign an even stranger covert caper.

The longtime GOP consultant's reward for fomenting the "Brooks Brothers mob" that shut down the Miami-Dade recount in 2000 was an invitation within days of Bush's election to serve on the Department of Interior transition working group—helping, in his own words, to staff its Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). Stone has since used this unannounced perch to market himself to tribes and developers from Louisiana to California, earning fat fees and contingent percentages of future casino revenue. Just two of the five deals examined by the Voice are projected to pay him at least $8 million, and perhaps as much as $13 million.

Time, The Washington Post and The New York Times have published exposés about Bush's BIA, with a February story highlighting $45 million in payments to two GOP lobbyists from four tribes since 2001. But no one has focused on Stone's profiteering, which, unlike the payments to registered lobbyists, is not reported on any public filings. ..............


40. Roger Stone, Iran-Contra, NCPAC, Blackwell, Buchanan, Rove, Sex & Trump's Money ...

What role did Stone play in financing the Contras? .............

41. Roger Stone - "slash-and-burn Republican black-bag election tamperer"

A Prayer for Reverend Al
Let Him Buy His Soul Back from the Republicans
by Doug Ireland
www.dissidentvoice.org
February 21, 2004 - First Published in LA Weekly
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb04/Ireland0221.htm

Who is Roger Stone? A slash-and-burn Republican black-bag election tamperer and consultant whose mentor was the repulsive Roy Cohn — the redbaiting hatchet man for Senator Joe McCarthy. Stone first made news in the Nixon Watergate scandal, when it was revealed that the 19-year-old apprentice McCarthyite had infiltrated George McGovern’s 1972 presidential campaign as part of CREEP’s sabotage plan. ... Stone helped Ollie North raise money for the Nicaraguan contras, and was a close associate of the notorious Lee Atwater ...


This one, my favorite, exemplifes the lengths to which these unscrupulous operatives will go just to malign a Dem candidate. This is not democracy, it is criminal conduct.

48. Swiftboating Al Gore from Argentina, SIDE, Israeli wire transfers, spy files, forgery, Bush & Menem

un-10-07 04:44 PM by L. Coyote
There just is no way to make this stuff up!! This is a court pleading. Unbelievable.

First get some spy files from Israel, alter them to look like Argentine spy files, make them implicate Bush and Menem in corruption, blame Gore for the forged documents. Sound familiar. Did I mention blackmailing bribed journalists and, of course, the perennial covert Republican dirty tricksters. This genre of dirty trick came to be known as "swiftboating" when done to Kerry four years later by the same players!!

==========================
http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/041901.P.pdf
Olavar (Triumph Communications International Group, Plaintiffs-Appellants, v.
Santibañes, Defendant-Appellee, and Ikon Holdings, Inc., t/a Ikon Public Affairs, Dick Morris, Roger Stone, Eileen McGann, John Does, Defendants.

Appeal from the United States District Court Decided: December 1, 2005

Triumph Communications International Group, Incorporated is a corporation that provides political consulting and public relations services and is owned and operated solely by Mattie Lolavar.

In early 2000, Miss Lolavar began discussions with defendant Dick Morris about the possibility of her working with Craig Snyder and defendant Roger Stone, who are partners in defendant IKON Holdings, Inc., another political consulting firm ... about the possibility of Triumph Communications’ assistance with work that IKON was doing for the government of Argentina.
These discussions lead to two contracts ... and provided that Triumph would act as a public relations consultant to "the Secretary of Intelligence of Argentina" as well as arrange various media events...

Miss Lolavar went to Argentina in August 2000 to assist de Santibañes with preparations for his testimony in Argentine congressional hearings inquiring into allegations that he and the Argentine intelligence agency, known as SIDE, were responsible for bribing various Argentine senators in exchange for political support. Morris and Stone assigned other tasks to Miss Lolavar while she was in Argentina. Among other acts, they instructed her to contact SIDE and obtain a list of journalists who accepted bribes from that organization in order to harm the credibility of those same journalists in reporting on a bribery scandal surrounding de Santibañes and President de la Rua, as well as requiring her to spread false information to the press concerning de la Rua’s political opponent, Dr. Carlos Menem. The charges and counter-charges related here are from the papers in the court file, as are the other facts.

A request that occasioned controversy between Miss Lolavar and the defendants was Morris and Stone’s request that she serve as an intermediary in an anonymous wire transfer of funds to an official in Israel. These funds were to be paid to secure intelligence files from the Israeli government to assist de la Rua’s political domestic disputes with Menem, and to imply a corrupt relationship between Menem and George W. Bush, who was then running against Albert Gore for the United States presidency. These files were to be altered by Miss Lolavar to appear to be SIDE documents.

When the defendants became concerned that this plot would be discovered and traced back to them, they ordered Miss Lolavar to orchestrate a press response to blame Vice President Gore for the dissemination of the documents, since it was known to them that the Gore campaign had been attempting to connect Menem with the Bush campaign.
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