2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI wonder why the Republicans are attacking Dr Susan Rice so much?
Could it be that she is smarter than the top 20 intelligent Republican Senators combined?
courseofhistory
(801 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)....in January and he needs to form a special new committee on this in order to keep the perks and the power he currently holds. Rice is his only hope of doing this.
NightOwwl
(5,453 posts)His histrionics have nothing to do with concern about national security or justice for the Americans who were killed.
This is all about McCain losing his position of power. Not only would he become irrelevant, it would also free up time for self-reflection. That would mean facing his own shadows, but he is too much of a coward to look at the monster in the mirror.
silhouete2
(80 posts)She is smart, a woman AND a minority. The GOP hate that combo.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)and it appears Susan Rice fits many of the demographics that soundly rejected them, so they're using her as a scapegoat for their white male rage because they know they'll soon be obsolete.
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)So it could be the reason republicans are on the attack but I personally think this is just the beginning of their new strategy to derail anything Obama tries to do.
I fully expect republicans to push for impeachment hearings and to continue, to the best of their ability, the gridlock in congress.
Through his appointments and judicial nominations especially
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)I doubt many view this strategy as defensible yet republicans are like pit-bulls, once they bite they don't let go.
boingboinh
(290 posts)Although i strongly doubt Obama will pick her because history shows he runs fast if Repubs scream fake foul. But republicans are obsessed with denying Obama any victory and so this is just their latest new shiny object. Bengazi gave them the necessary fire to use. I'd love to see her in the position but Obama never will, not anymore.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)Everybody involved at that point knew that a spontaneous demonstration that turned violent was not the cause of the death of the ambassador and the other three people. There had been demonstrations in other countries, but not outside the US mission in Benghazi. They knew that it was an Al-Qaeda terrorist attack. The attack lasted 7 hours, why weren't they helped? There are so many questions.
moobu2
(4,822 posts)Benghazi attack talking points. In other words very little of what you said has any basis in truth.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)If mistakes were made, then admit them and move on. Why persist with the video nonsense?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)By Hamed Aleaziz on Nov 20, 2012 at 10:51 am
Intelligence officials told CNN that the intelligence community, not the White House, changed the now infamous Benghazi talking points given to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice before her appearance on several morning news shows in September. CNN quoted both the spokesperson for the Director of National Intelligence and an anonymous official familiar with the drafting of the talking points. The DNI spokesperson said that the only substantive changes came from the intelligence community and not the White House.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014312284
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)wow, just wow.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)What on earth are you doing at DU?
Beacool
(30,250 posts)When did Petraeus say that the attack was due to an spontaneous demonstration that turned violent?
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)relayed to Ms Rice from the CIA.
This link is from another DU thread, but if you are truly interested in doing something other than to push the GOP agenda, i.e., to make an unwarranted scapegoat of Susan Rice, you might at least glance through it.
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/19/mccains_obscene_hypocrisy/
While you never specifically answered my question about why you are here at DU, your response to my post speaks volumes.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)As per the article that you attached, it seems that they are of the opinion that she's being criticized because she's an AA female. Do you think that if the WH had sent a white man they wouldn't be attacking him?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)First of all, she can only repeat what she is CLEARED to repeat. Second of all, due to the CIA annex being involved in this mess, it would put many of our intelligence personnel in danger to run off half-cocked and say everything you think happened when a CIA annex is involved. Third of all, you, nor I, nor anyone else on this forum know what they knew or when they knew it.
It would be sheer lunacy to get on national television and start discussing a CIA annex without getting cleared by the CIA, and you may not be aware of this, but sometimes they lie for reasons of national security.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)"They knew that it was an Al-Qaeda terrorist attack" No. The truth is much cloudier. There are various Islamist groups in Libya. The biggest is Ansar Al Sharia -- which certainly played a big role in the attacks. There are also various militia brigades that operate in Libya and Benghazi. Some are Islamists and others are tied to the former government and military of Mohammar Ghadaffi. Some of the brigades operate under the consolidated heading of Libya Shield. Al-Qaeda has ties and affiliations with any and all of the above. The FBI is still investigating who was responsible for the attack -- we don't have all the answers now and we sure as hell didn't have all the answers in the immediate aftermath of the attack.
"The attack lasted 7 hours, why weren't they helped?" The initial assault started at 9:42 pm local time. The U.S. government began mobilizing assets and positioning them for a possible intervention immediately. An armed team from the Benghazi CIA office was enroute to the consulate within 24 minutes. By 11:30 p.m. all surviving U.S. personnel were evacuated from the consulate.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)That was the line that was edited later on form the report. Regardless of the finer points, the WH knew that demonstrators had not been responsible for the attack and still sent Rice with that story to all the networks. I don't get why they did it.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Horseshit.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)She was told what to say and she followed direction. If by then they knew that a spontaneous demonstration did not result in the attack, why send her out to repeat that story on all the networks? I just don't get it.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)why attack her? Like Obama said, go after him. He essentially taunted the GOP, daring them to...do...what we all know they want to do. They want to impeach.
Too bad they won't get anywhere with that
Beacool
(30,250 posts)If the WH had sent someone else, they would be attacking that person. The question still remains, why blame the attack on a video? I'm trying to understand the logic behind it.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)because of the video. The unrest due to the video occurred the same day. It's entirely plausible that this could have been the spark.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)But by that Sunday it was 5 days later and the WH knew that the attack was not caused by a demonstration gone bad. Therefore, why send Rice to repeat that story on every major network?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)with the agreement of the CIA and FBI
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57552328/sources-dni-cut-al-qaeda-reference-from-benghazi-talking-points-cia-fbi-signed-off/
Put that in your pipe and smoke it
Beacool
(30,250 posts)Although, it does state that as a member of Obama's cabinet Rice would have gotten the information.
"However, an intelligence source tells CBS News correspondent Margaret Brennan the links to al Qaeda were deemed too "tenuous" to make public, because there was not strong confidence in the person providing the intelligence. CIA Director David Petraeus, however, told Congress he agreed to release the information -- the reference to al Qaeda -- in an early draft of the talking points, which were also distributed to select lawmakers.
"The intelligence community assessed from the very beginning that what happened in Benghazi was a terrorist attack." DNI spokesman Shawn Turner tells CBS News. That information was shared at a classified level -- which Rice, as a member of President Obama's cabinet, would have been privy to."
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Which is why you don't go on national TV and talk about classified information because conservatives will be angry with you if you don't.
Fuck 'em.
They got nothin'
dkf
(37,305 posts)Spontaneous demonstration caused by a video. That was misleading.
That is why she can't be trusted to tell the truth but will mislead if told to do so. She has used up her credibility. Not only that but when Obama went all "protective male" he undermined her and made her look weak like she couldn't fight her own battles. I can't imagine Obama ever having to play that role for Hillary because Hillary doesn't need it.
Hillary is the smart one here. This should have been her area, to explain what happened to her ambassador. But she is too smart for that.
Colin Powell sunk his credibility doing this for George Bush. Susan Rice just did the same for Obama.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)whatever.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)That story (that the attack on Benghazi was caused by a spontaneous demonstration gone bad) was not accurate. The Republicans of course went ape $hit over it, but the fact remains that 5 days after the attack the WH knew that the attack was not caused by that video. There were several demonstrations in other countries, some of them violent, that were caused by the video; but not the attack on Benghazi.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)seriously. if you can't tell the truth about what is said, just leave it.
the statement is nuanced, your description of the statement is false and not nuanced.
if you spread a lie about the statement, then either you dont' know what you're talking about (and nobody should listen to you)
OR
you are lying about the statement, in which case you are telling us that you don't believe the truth is convincing.
RICE: [O]ur current best assessment, based on the information that we have at present, is that, in fact, what this began as, it was a spontaneous not a premeditated response to what had transpired in Cairo. In Cairo, as you know, a few hours earlier, there was a violent protest that was undertaken in reaction to this very offensive video that was disseminated.
We believe that folks in Benghazi, a small number of people came to the embassy to or to the consulate, rather, to replicate the sort of challenge that was posed in Cairo. And then as that unfolded, it seems to have been hijacked, let us say, by some individual clusters of extremists who came with heavier weapons, weapons that as you know in in the wake of the revolution in Libya are are quite common and accessible. And it then evolved from there.
Well wait to see exactly what the investigation finally confirms, but thats the best information we have at present.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)As I've already explained, there were any number of groups in Libya with motivation to attack the U.S. The crude, anti-Muslim film trailer that was aired on Egyptian television sparked riots and protests in Cairo and many other cities across the region on the same day. It is completely plausible to believe that regardless of who planned the Benghazi attack, that the timing was directly influenced by the riots and chaos that the video caused in other cities.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)serving as U.N. Ambassador. The Reich Wing is still looking for a Bolton-Cheney type person. We Dem's are getting payback for our criticism of Bolton,same shit just a new day. Repukes are ruthless when it comes to wedge issues and it will continue until we put a stake in their heartless bodies.
struggle4progress
(118,332 posts)in the hopes that somebody will argue with them, creating controversy, so they get attention
CANDO
(2,068 posts)And then they think Brown has a shot at Kerry's seat.
marlakay
(11,484 posts)applegrove
(118,767 posts)on his strengths and Rice is a strength.
lillypaddle
(9,581 posts)That's my assumption, FWIW.
DFW
(54,436 posts)They were probably grateful from some new blood (to suck).
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)I think it is pretty much that simple.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)You don't fight for your life by playing nice. It's all self-interest.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)'Nuff said..
Beacool
(30,250 posts)'Nuff said..
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)whatever.
maybe you still aren't over that Obama issue from 2008.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)Of course I do, I wouldn't have supported her otherwise. Although, what does this have to do with 2008? This is about the PC police finding "code words" where none existed before (incompetent is not a code word for anything) when the other side attacks someone on our side. There is plenty of legitimate racism, criticizing a public official on statements made on behalf of the WH is not racism. We would be doing the same thing if Bush had been in office when the Benghazi diplomatic mission was attacked.
genna
(1,945 posts)Impressive.
If I need to argue about something, I hope I can be this credible.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Condi was/is a confirmed liar...
Beacool
(30,250 posts)A Republican could accuse you of using "code words" and call you a racist. I do think that she's plenty smart. That doesn't mean that I agree with her political positions.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Smart people don't tarnish their images by being proven liars..or acting stupid whilst testifying to congress..
genna
(1,945 posts)usually are used to mask intent. If Condi acted without any intellectual curiosity about the matter at hand even in the rearview mirror, you can't call that smart. No one is masking intent here.
Condi Rice like Colin Powell should have resigned in protest early on when they found out how badly they were lied to and subsequently acted to spread those lies.
They were both under extreme amount of pressure to make their place in the Bush administration work. Powell eventually left office in disgrace; he had no power to make a difference. He talked about his time at State and the depth of his mistakes.
Who really knows about Condi Rice when she is still using debunked arguments to CYA.
Who said you can criticize a woman, a black woman, or a smart black woman? Code words suggest a smart black woman is an oxymoronic view.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)I just think that Republicans would have criticized anyone the administration had sent that Sunday with that same story. I don't think that the criticism of Rice over Benghazi was due to her gender and race.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)that has even the slightest hint of wrongdoing to Obama, no matter how far-fetched it is. And, if that happens, they'll immediately open impeachment hearings. They know most of the media will lap up impeachment hearings like a kitten lapping up some spilled milk.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)shes a woman and she has more education and intellect than ten thousand Sarah Palins!
That's more than enough for the entire repig party, hate radio and Faux news to hate and slander her for life!
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)Someone has to be the devil they are fighting against; and if the perpetrator is black, they can't be that intelligent because they are all affirmative action candidates; which makes them an easy target for these bigots. This time it's Rice, last time it was Eric Holder even though he ended the program started under Bush that they were trying to use to drive him out of office.
Gargoyle22
(69 posts)november3rd
(1,113 posts)They hate Obama so much because he makes them look like such prehistoric idiots.
Iggo
(47,564 posts)Pick one.
rock
(13,218 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)That's all they've got.
Kablooie
(18,641 posts)Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)'Nuff said.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)in the response. McCain in a recent comment actually said Obama was the problem and accused him of distorting what he said (that it was terrorism). Ignore that McCain is wrong on Obama and that there really was not enough time to call anything a coverup. The point is they have a vested interest - even after losing the election - in saying there is a scandal rather than a tragedy here.
I think they would be saying the same if Rice were white and male and would have been sent on all the same shows and done the same professional job responding to the questions - lessening the pressure on putting either Clinton or Obama out there.
McCain already disliked her because of her brutal characterizations of his fp in the 2008 election. Joe Biden and John Kerry also countered McCain's ideas, but their attacks avoided personal attacks and both of them had long standing past histories with him.
However, the norm is that Presidents should get the cabinet they want provided they do not lie to Congress or do something outside the pale. There is nothing that should preclude Rice's confirmation. It is true that it would help if the nominee had good ties with the Senate which has to approve treaties. That she doesn't matters less as the Democratic chair of the SFRC does and can and will make solid cases for administration policy - even if Obama passes over him for SOS. The comments that she is not sufficiently diplomatic are part of the ugly media fight and the ONLY person who really has to judge them is President Obama.
The Senate role is advise and consent - not designating who they want or think best for the position.