2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLet's not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I'm hearing an incredible level of certainty that Clinton will win. It worries me.
We "all" know Trump breaks "every rule in the book" in pursuit of his own ends. He lies and distorts reality to rationalize and justify his wrongful conduct. To puff up his over-inflated ego he stereotypes and denigrates those he sees as "out-groups." His callous disregard for others and sense of entitlement appears to know no bounds. He weaves grandiose tales of his fearsome power, omnipotence, and unequaled brilliance. He is proudly abrasive and offensive. He clearly enjoys humiliating and embarrassing others, but reacts to any perceived slight to his own person, appearance, or accomplishments aggressively and vindictively.
In short, he is horrible.
Or to be more technical, he is a psychopathic narcissist.
It's blatant. It's obvious. It's undeniable.
And then we see the numbers. Since the conventions, regardless of what Trump does, support for him has remained incredibly steady at close to 40%. His level of support is just a few percentage points below Clinton's.
Most of us look at those polls and think "Unbelievable!"
That disbelief makes sense.
People need to construct a coherent "reality." The beliefs we internalize can be flat wrong, or inconsistent with each other, but i don't think we could function if we didn't have some sense that we know, or can figure out, "how things work." Necessarily, our reality is constructed based on our own experience.
Clearly, there are people who don't see what's obvious to us. And there are a LOT of them. Where we are repulsed, they are attracted. Behavior "we" see as undeniable evidence that Trump is a psychopath, "they" see as undeniable evidence that he's strong, genuine, has a "great sense of humor, and is a fantastic businessman. Statements "we" see as incredibly dangerous propositions, or blatantly racist and sexist, "they" see as willingness to "do what has to be done" and "telling it like it is."
Intellectually, we know "those people" exist. We see the numbers, but, we don't really "get it" because, whatever is going on for "those people" is utterly foreign to our experience. On some level, we hold firm to the notion that Trump is so obviously horrible "everyone" must see it. I think this phenomenon is related to the incredible level of confidence so many people seem to have.
It's true that when we look at the electoral map predictions, a Clinton win looks solid. But what I'm seeing goes beyond that. I'm seeing a widespread belief that a Trump win is completely outside the realm of possibility. I think that level of certainty is driven by two things. One factual, one counterfactual:
Factual:
"State polls make it highly probably that Clinton will get a majority of the electors."
Counterfactual:
An underlying belief that "Trump can't possibly win because he is too horrible."
When we take the second part out, we can "get real." The number of Trump supporters, and the number of Clinton supporters, are too close for comfort. State-level, poll-driven expectations have blown up before. A Trump victory is possible.
If we recognize the possibility of losing, we'll do a better job of making sure it doesn't happen.
When so many believe the outcome is so certain, some percentage of Hillary supporters won't bother to vote because they think "my one vote isn't going to make a difference. Hillary has it in the bag."
It seems to me that the Clinton campaign itself subscribes to the notion that victory is inevitable. I worry that overconfidence has made them complacent about getting out the vote. News from Florida about low African American turnout in early voting seems to confirm this. In an article in Politico, Alcee Hastings is quoted as saying "Theyre not doing enough in the black community. I have been screaming for months about this and nothing changed and now look whats happening."
Even if the the notion that "victory is certain" only suppresses the vote for Hillary by a small percentage, when it's coupled with other forms of suppression we KNOW we will see (and are already seeing) -- insufficient election day resources (long lines); intimidation by Trump thugs; and the systematic forms of suppression already in place (voter ID) -- that "inevitable" Clinton victory could be derailed.
Unbelievable as it may be, there are whole lot of enthusiastic Trump supporters out there. Perhaps enough to propel him to victory. "President Trump' IS within the realm of possibility. It's a terrifying thought, but fear is a great motivator.
Let's not let overconfidence snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)You're completely misreading the situation based on a few posters attempting to be positive - which I happen to appreciate.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)The belief that "Hillary can't lose" or that 'Trump can't win" is "out there." One was just posted on this thread.
Every time I hear it in the media, or on DU, or elsewhere, I cringe. And I've been doing a lot of cringing lately.
I hope you are right, and it is not actually as widespread as it appears to me. But statements like the following aren't people just trying to be positive.
"Trump's path to victory isn't narrow, it's nonexistent."
-Stuart Rothenberg
"GOP Insiders: Trump can't win: Roughly half of Republican members of The POLITICO Caucus activists, strategists and operatives in 11 swing states believe that Trumps path to 270 electoral votes is basically shut off
-politico
Karl Rove: Donald Trump can't win
-HuffPo
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)GOTV.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)kimbutgar
(21,155 posts)Like our lives depend on it. If Cheeto wins I'll be ok but I worry about my 24 year old son with autism who lives in a group home. I remember history of what hitler did to disabled people.
Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)vdogg
(1,384 posts)I try to counter that concern by being optimistic. I believe hope and optimism are far better motivators than fear and despair. I know the odds and the consequences of loss, I just choose not to let that define my every waking moment. These constant concern posts demoralize people. They start becoming depressed and nihilistic and start to wonder why even try in the first place? You are not telling anyone here anything they don't know about the state of the race. Relax, and think positive.
Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)frighten Democrats...I have been GOTV for years...and when people think they are losing that is when they don't vote...and that is a fact all you concerned folks.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Losing is within the realm of possibility
and
We are losing
A VERY BIG difference.
If people don't think losing is in the realm of possibility, why vote?
And there are a lot of people spreading the "Hillary can't lose" meme.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Having optimism/hope that you can bring about an outcome is VERY different from holding the belief that the outcome you want is "a done deal" (and therefore you don't need to lift a finger).
pat_k
(9,313 posts)... a belief that an outcome is certain.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)Not one.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)(including one just posted in this thread) in my post above:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2575516
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)Not one. I do not know you either.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)I don't "personally know" anyone who is overconfident.
But most of the people close to me share my concern. They share the concern because, like me, they "know of" commentators, analysts, talking heads, people posting on discussion sites like DU or Reddit, who assert the belief that "Hillary can't lose." I gave you a little sampling.
When I encounter people who parrot the "Can't Lose" assertion, I challenge it.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)The problem is not over-confidence at this moment in the race.
To think otherwise is to be wandering in a wilderness of unreality.
DFW
(54,401 posts)A Republican ticket is practically guaranteed at least 40% of the vote, even if their presidential and vice-presidential ticket consists of a rake and garden hose. ("One is sturdy and steadfast, the other is flexible and adapts to sudden situations." You can spin it any way you like)
We always start with a tremendous handicap.
That's why I think the Comey furore is a blessing in disguise.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I suppose it varies from person to person.
Regardless, I will admit to being anxious, even though it's very hard to envision how Trump can reach 270. Tuesday can't come soon enough.
It's staggering to realize that 40+ or 50+ million people are going to vote for Donald J Trump. And it doesn't seem to matter that he faces a lawsuit for raping a child; not when his opponent committed a much more heinous offense by using a private email server.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)I share the sentiment.
We'll know the outcome soon. Perhaps Hillary really "can't lose" -- perhaps an impossible number of things would have to go pear-shaped for that to happen. But, if the past few decades have shown me anything, it's that in the political world, anything can happen. We've made gains that "everybody knew" were impossible. We've suffered loses that "no one could have imagined."
For me it boils down to this. We know some of the ways things could go "pear shaped." Sufficient numbers of Clinton votes could be suppressed by intimidating Trump thugs, suppressed by long lines in "certain areas." Anticipating the sorts of problems we need to defend against enables us to take action to minimize damage.
Complacency is dangerous. We need to challenge things that make people complacent. Overconfidence is one thing (it's "in the bag," they don't need my help). Hopelessness is another (it's a hopeless cause, there is nothing I can do). When the odds are stacked in our favor, as they are now, we must guard against the first. When the odds are against us, we must guard against the second.
When the stakes are high, it's not really the fear that motivates. Taking action comes out of a recognition that the feared outcome is possible, coupled with the knowledge that there are things we can do to minimize the risk.
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)That is what will win the election.