Will the DFL and DNC finally admit that abandoning the values of the New Deal & Great Society

[dflprincess]

was not the right move?

For God sakes, we lost the Iron Range in Minnesota - Itasca County went to the Republicans for the first time since 1928. We barely squeaked out a win for Clinton in a state that hasn't gone to the Republican candidate since 1972 - and the damn Republicans took control of both the state House and Senate; a Donald Trump clone won a seat that should have gone to the DFL.

Something's not working and I don't think sucking up to Wall Street is the way to keep going.

[Raster]

1. It's time for Democrats to be Democrats again...

...the party of working women and men. Our little "third way/centrist/dlc/blue dog" experiment has been a resounding failure.

[duffyduff]

7. Again, wrong. n/t

[dflprincess]

8. When was the last time we had control of Congress?

And how long did it last?

[duffyduff]

55. Six to eight years ago. That is when Obamacare passed. nt

[dflprincess]

67. And how long did we hang on to control?

After 35 years of moving right it might be time to try something new.

[gollygee]

65. That's because of gerrymandering more than anything else nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. That's sounds so familiar....

[Omaha Steve]

62. How do you figure that and only post a 2 word title with nothing to back it up?

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/305916-hillary-clintons-missing-votes

Snip: Clinton lost states no Democratic presidential candidate had been defeated in since George H.W. Bush carried 40 states, including Michigan and Pennsylvania, in 1988.

Clinton leads the popular vote, but she received about 5 million fewer votes than President Obama did in 2012. At the same time, Trump won about as many votes as Mitt Romney did in 2012 and only a little more than Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) did in 2008.

Most critically, the votes Clinton lost stood out in states essential to both candidates’ paths to 270 electoral votes. In the 10 most competitive swing states, Clinton underperformed Obama’s 2012 tally by nearly 1.2 million votes. Besides Pennsylvania and Michigan, she became the first Democratic presidential candidate since 1984 to lose Wisconsin.

[Equinox Moon]

19. YES!

OMG we lost some 900 seats across the country, not to speak of the Governors lost. Time for major changes in the Democratic Party.

[Grey Lemercier]

2. on the historic plus side you elected the first Somalia-American

in the US to a State House seat. A woman to boot.

[Feeling the Bern]

16. Yet they control most governor's mansion, most state leges, Congress, President and soon SCOTUS

Hooray for minor victories.

[Grey Lemercier]

17. yes, the Democratic party is at it lowest level of power

at combined state and federal level since the Civil War.

How quickly things change for the horrid, although the state power has been gone for a longer time.

[manicraven]

24. Yet, all the polls and the mood seemed to be that we were winning and

there was talk of maybe getting back even the House. We obviously are in some sort of bubble and need to chart a new course. I think we should start fighting for working people again and never give up on equality and decency.

[Feeling the Bern]

25. I said Democrats win their are Democrats and not triangulating DLC centrists

And now that Skinner rescinded the don't rehash the primary, I'm going to say it.

She was DLC through and through. We said it for years here. The only person who stood up for working people, equality and decency that had a chance was pretty much ratfucked out of the race by the party elites that wanted to make neo-liberalism and corporate centrism the New Democrat.

When Democrats are Democrats, we win, even if it's a Democratic Socialist. I got savaged hard for saying that.

[Grey Lemercier]

31. a couple points.

I saw so so so few ever talk about the utter dominance of the Rethugs at state level, all were so focused on the POTUS race. That is going to fuck us sooo hard again in 2020 with the new Census and redistricting. it is maddening that we cannot get our act together and do better at ste levels. As for taking back the House, that was an impossibility (literally), as I ran thru EVERY race and there were simple not enough races anywhere near close enough to do that. I knew that basically since the season started.

As for the Senate, I almost nailed it in terms of net gain, I had it 49 Dems, 51 Repug (I will admit I missed 3 races, I had Ayotte winning for the Rethugs, and also had McGinty in PA and Feingold (what a LOSS) in WI winning. I picked every other race correct.

I had Clinton winning 293 245 (I missed NC, PA, WI, MI)

The last 2 weeks I constantly lowered Clintons EV's and the Senate, I started out at 53 seats for Dems, and around 353 (in fact that exactly) for Clinton the week before The Obamacare rate increases and the Clinton Inc Wikileaks hit. Those 2 things did more damage, IMHO than Comey's ratfuck (I know thats is a VERY unpopular stance here, but i saw it in the numbers)

I was as shocked as all about PA and WI (PA just staggers me still, the Philly machine semi-collapsed and the rural areas exploded). NC not so much, and MI, well a friend told me 2 days out, watch 2 states, VA and MI in early returns, as he subscribes to PPD and Trafalgar pollster services (they are Repub oriented) and their internals showed tonnes of last minute movement to Trump.

Unfortunate they were right.

The closest polls were all ones (especially at state level) that were spat upon here. PPD and Trafalgar, even the (I thought) loons at Remington Research, and the USC/LA Times tracker.

[Grey Lemercier]

37. one last point, and I see very little talk of this as well

We all got hyped up over Nevada, with John Ralston and the surge of latino voters, and I, along with every once else extrapolated that out to a huge surge of new hispanic votes (and around 85 to 90 anti trump at that) coming in all over the south. That maybe was the case in some places, BUT Trump also got almost one of out of every 3 of those latino votes, and OVER 33% if you subtract CA.

I took a Latin American political class as an undergrad here in London, with an ex professor from a major Argentinian university, as well as an ex asst. counsel for the British foreign office, and they introduced us to the concept of "el caudillo" (aka the strongman) that has been endemic in hispanic governance for centuries. I think Trump personified that so much and he pulled so much more votes than we would ever rationally think. Trump pulled better than Romney or McCain with latinos and African-Americans. That is just staggering to me.

[brewens]

3. I'd say a large number of Trump supporters didn't think sucking up to Wall Street was the way

to keep going either, but I bet that's what they get. We at least should have known better.

[JonLP24]

4. Great post.

[LostOne4Ever]

5. K&t nt

[duffyduff]

6. More Democrat blaming and not addressing the real problem.

This election was all about the media. Nothing more, and nothing less.

It is right there in front of your face who and what is responsible.

Hint: It is NOT the Democratic Party or its message.

It is the media who manufactured a Lonesome Rhodes candidate and shoved him on the American people for ratings and ad revenue.

[JonLP24]

9. Everyone thinks the media is biased

All the Trump supporters say the media is slanted against Trump, we say the media is biased
I think the media lives in the now when they could have done a thorough background (not a puff piece) which would have saw housing discrimination, lawsuits, mafia connections, failed businesses like the USFL. He challenged the NFL in hopes they would merge a lawsuit which won them $1.00.

He is a fraud but at the end of the day deindustralized areas that were long time Democratic swung to Trump because of trade policy.

[BainsBane]

12. That is the story you want to be true

But you have zero evidence to support it. Even exit polls show that Clinton won the majority who Named the economy as their principle concern, while Trump won those who prioritized immigration and terrorism, i.e. brown people.

Anyone who believed Trump would be better on trade is an imbecile. His actions since being elected show his priority is to deregulate business, which he also communicated during the election. They voted for fewer govt restrictions on trade, not more. What he is better at is hating women and people of color. There is a reason that racism and hate crimes have increased since election day.

[JonLP24]

13. That was Trump's message

It may not be true but that was his message that won him the rust belt. Compare from 2012 to 2016, I don't know why it is so hard to believe this. Hillary Clinton said the problem with trade deals is they need to be "enforced".

Anyone who buys Trump has a handle on the terrorist problem is a moron. A common theme is most peiple didn't like either candidate.

[BainsBane]

14. How do you know racism didn't win it for him?

The rust belt also experienced some of the greatest voter repression. PA, MI, and WI all have Republicans in control of elections.

[Ken Burch]

20. The problem is, if we assume it's about bigotry, we give up on ever changing anything.

This year proves we can't win JUST by saying "don't be a bigot".

And we can't defeat bigotry just by denouncing it, either.

[boston bean]

43. Umm. That wasn't all she said and Hillary never abandoned the New Deal.

Anyone saying that right there loses all cred.

[Ken Burch]

44. She was talking about the party leadership in general there. n/t.

[workinclasszero]

46. They swung to him because he lied and lied and lied saying he would bring

high paying, good benefits factory jobs back to America. That is never going to happen, ever.

Trump666 is going to give them the destruction of whatever safety net is left SS/SSI/Medicaid/Medicare/Unemployment Pay/Food assistance...etc.

If he dares to slap a 45% tariff on Chinese goods and pulls out of NAFTA then starts rounding up undocumented workers he will also reignite out of control stagflation.

American workers are going to pay a heavy, heavy price for electing this POS.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. Trump tied Hillary to NAFTA and the TPP....

The Rust Belt voted not only to get their jobs back but to save other towns from destruction.

Not that Trump gives a damn about those people.

[pnwmom]

57. And yet he couldn't have won without Comey putting his fist on the scale, twice.

And without an Electoral college that gives much more weight to voters in red states than in blue.

And yet Hillary won the votes of more than a million actual voters than were persuaded by DT.

[workinclasszero]

47. Yes those bastards sold out America for ratings

I don't see that changing either as they try to normalize the orange devil and his merry band of loons and white supremacists that will be in charge soon.

[Hekate]

10. Hillary WON by more than a million votes and counting, more all the time as ballots are counted.

The Electoral College has got to go. And, There needs to be a LAW against the media calling a presidential election before ALL the ballots are counted.

Any Democrat going forward should be honor-bound to make "Hillary WON" the first words out of his or her mouth in any discussion of how we go forward from this disaster. She did not "lose" this election.

[Ken Burch]

21. We all agree with you on abolishing the EC.

But we can't stay the course on policy and strategy. We can't ever win with tactics that lost the first time they were tried.

[pnwmom]

29. How would you solve the real problem, which is not globalization?

It's computerization and robotization, and it's not going away. And just because the industrial revolution gave way to a new era with new jobs doesn't mean this one will.

[Ken Burch]

30. Both those issues matter, but we need to find some way

to make humane, democratic values and the right to be treated with dignity and respect be part of the economy.

We can't just let people be discarded.

I don't have all the answers...but I know we can't leave the whole thing to "market forces" any more.

Perhaps a law that if anyone's job is destroyed by computerization or robotization, they will be given free training(and, say, a stipend equal to three-quarters of what they earned WHILE they were being retrained)to do something that will be worthy of their intelligence and their abilities.

[pnwmom]

34. About half of our jobs might be lost, according to this 2013 study.

http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf

There won't be enough jobs left to be trained for.

[Ken Burch]

38. Then we will need massive programs in public works, education, arts funding

to give people SOMETHING creative and meaningful to do.

We could also share out the jobs by doing something like this

A person works at a job for three year. Every fourth year, that person is given the same three-fourths stipend I talked about to go through a learning or creative experience(jobs would be made from developing these experiences as well) for two years, which would open up the jobs those people had been doing and would later go back too.

We need to take this out of "market values" because we now know a market economy is just going to discard as many people as possible while grinding the ones it doesn't discard into the dirt.

Doing that, doing whatever we can do to prevent people from being made to feel unneeded and cast-off, is going to be crucial to defeating the tribalist impulse that Trump exploited.

Not sure why its important to you to get globalization off the hook-that phenomenon has made robotization and computerization while having no progressive effect on life at all.

[pnwmom]

39. Because putting all the blame on globalization while ignoring the larger problem

contributes to xenophobia.

(And globalization didn't "make" robotization and computerization.)

[Ken Burch]

41. Nobody here is ignoring ANY larger problems.

Everyone on the Left is just as anti-bigotry as Hillary primary supporters are.

And you can't fight xenophobia successfully without also fighting fear of want and increasing scarcity-xenophobia mainly grows in countries where economic insecurity grows. You can't defeat hate while people are getting poorer or fear getting poorer.

[seaglass]

45. Nope, not true Ken, We have a whole website spun off from here that did not take into

consideration the consequences of their votes on POC, minorities, immigrants, women etc. Actual people were second to their bitter, vengeful feelings. And that website is not alone.

The alt-left are the people who need to examine the consequences of this election. The more they continue to blame POC, women, and identity politics and center white people, the fewer allies they will have. Who is going to trust any of those who cavalierly voted to let it burn?

[BlueMTexpat]

28. This!!!!!

Any Democrat going forward should be honor-bound to make "Hillary WON" the first words out of his or her mouth in any discussion of how we go forward from this disaster. She did not "lose" this election.

[B Calm]

59. Hillary got 5 million lesser votes than Obama did in 2008. What does that say?

Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

[BainsBane]

11. No longer being the party of Jim Crow

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:57 AM - Edit history (2)

Which was part of the New Deal many are so nostalgic for likely hurt among Trump voters. If the Democrats were to revert to those values, I and much of the rest of the majority of Democratic voters would be out. That language of reverting to the past was central to the Trump campaign. It doesn't belong in the Democratic Party.

[Ken Burch]

22. Nobody here wants Jim Crow back.

None of us are nostalgic for that part of the Thirties.

What we're saying is we need to fight greed as well as hate.

That just being against social oppression is not enough to get us elected.

Do you object to that?

[ErikJ]

15. It all boiled down to messaging and INSPIRATION.

Trump was able to connect to the masses and inspire.
Hillary ran on Bill's success and charisma but had none of her own. She had watered down liberal policies that excited nobody.

[manicraven]

26. I think so, too. Trump spoke at a 4th grade level but in a clear, repetitious manner, and it

resonated. Most was garbage, but it obviously worked. When people are asked to list 3 things Trump wanted to do, they could. Granted there was no substance, but they had a general idea. When asked what Hillary wanted to do, blank stares. We didn't reach the average voter.

[LeftInTX]

53. You summed it up at a 4th grade level. He repeated, repeated, repeated

Not much into details at all.

[pnwmom]

40. Hillary got at least a million more votes than Trump. It's nonsense to say Hillary

had no success or charisma. She inspired more than 60 million voters from all walks of life.

[Equinox Moon]

18. Devastating! loses in Minnesota!

HORRIBLE!

Health care had a lot to do with it too and MNSure - 57% premium increases!

I could not believe Jason Lewis was elected over Angie Craig. Shocker! How ignorant are the voters? They vote for celebrity names. Remember the Jesse Ventura debacle? Celebrity names get votes.

Governor Dayton is hanging out there all on his own now. He needs to invoke and rally the people behind him.

[Starry Messenger]

23. Well, under Trump the federal minimum wage won't budge an inch.

Hillary would have boosted it almost double nationally and recommended higher by COL regionally. Enjoy.

[workinclasszero]

48. I will be surprised if the Federal minimum wage is not destroyed ASAP

Another wet dream of Ryan and his racist party no doubt.

[kcdoug1]

27. NO

they never will. Not until every corporate whore in the democratic party has been removed. Working people are tired of DNC BS

[pnwmom]

42. Exit polls showed that only 17% of voters identified as having "liberal" values;

and that 54% wanted more conservative policies than Barack Obama's.

So much for the idea that Hillary wasn't liberal enough.

[ehrnst]

50. This. 1000 times. (nt)

[dflprincess]

52. Until you ask about individual issues

then they lean left even though they think they don't.

[pnwmom]

56. Doesn't matter. Trump would be able to manipulate voter opinion

against anyone who was perceived as too "liberal."

[dflprincess]

69. It is not just Trump

the Democrats have been moving right since Reagan and they let the right control the narrative.

We better figure it out soon because there are 25 Democratic senate seats up for grabs in 2018 and Republican Lite isn't working.

[ehrnst]

49. They abandoned the image that White straight men and their wishes come first. (nt)

[annabanana]

51. FDR Democrats are needed now. . . n/t

[B Calm]

58. I got a good friend in Itasca county.

[NurseJackie]

60. Stop living in the past. This is 2016, not 1928.

[BlueProgressive]

61. It may become 1929

before the next four years are over.

[NurseJackie]

63. I'm sure that will be of great comfort (or "consolation") to many.

[boston bean]

66. Yes, those who are proud of their self fulfilling prophecy that they were right

No matter what wrath they have wrought.

And they aren't even right, which is what makes it even worse.

[dflprincess]

68. FDR was elected in 1932

after the disaster that was Hoover (when the Republicans controlled the presidency and both houses of Congress.)

But your way has been working so well for us the last 30 years, please continue to take swipes at those of us who would like to see a more progressive party.

[boston bean]

64. They have not abandoned the values of the New Deal and Great Society.

FFS... if I hear this one more time, I'm going to explode like a really bad infected boil! hahahahah