Stronger Together was NOT identity politics

[BainsBane]

Make American White again was. White Nationalism is the ultimate identity politics, and Spencer explicitly identifies their quest as about white identity. "Heil Trump" followed by the Nazi salute--that's identity politics.

Working together is about people coming together regardless of race, gender or sexuality. How out of it do you have to be to determine that was more about identity that imaging the working class is only white or that the Trump campaign wasn't based on white identity?

Again, Clinton's biggest margin was among households with incomes under $30k and then under $50k. Trump won voters of higher incomes. He won the majority of white voters, just as Republicans have done since the Civil Rights Act. Meanwhile, voter suppression limited access to votes in the states that gave Trump his victory--a victory determined by 55,000 votes in those states combined, while Clinton's lead in the popular vote continues to climb near 2 million.

Yes, the Democratic Party needs to rethink a lot, but attacking women and people of color is not a winning approach for Democrats. Moreover, it is morally reprehensible. If we don't stand for equal rights, we stand for nothing.

[Me.]

1. Here, Here

[SleeplessinSoCal]

16. Hear! Hear!

Sorry.

[Me.]

73. Live & Learn

[frazzled]

2. Right on. /nt

[brer cat]

3. K&R

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

4. I hear ya.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Amen to that!

[BootinUp]

6. Amerika is not in the mood for logic. nt

[mountain grammy]

7. except for coal miners, who need to move on, this is true.

Most people I know for Trump are doing quite well, but hated Obama and the ACA and Hillary because she murdered so many people and the unborn and those emails and stuff.

[BainsBane]

11. Right, the murders

I saw people claiming that too. Fake news.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Kick and fucking recommended

Sick of that whiny, counterproductive, manipulative and destructive bullshit.

[CBHagman]

9. Thank you.

And we need more people of color and women in leadership positions, not fewer.

Onward and upward.

[sheshe2]

10. Thank you.

[Qutzupalotl]

12. No, but "I'm With Her" was. nt

[BainsBane]

13. Oh, right

I forgot that (some) white men don't like to be reminded that anyone else but themselves exists. It's hard for me to put myself in the state of fragility that would enable the mere use of a pronoun of self-identification to set someone off.

And there you are using a Nahuatl screen name, with no sense that might convey an identity, whether it's self identity or not. Perhaps the later is more acceptable?

[Qutzupalotl]

20. Condescend much?

[Hekate]

21. Forget your sarcasm smiley much when saying I'm With Her is about identity politics?

I'M STILL WITH HER

[SunSeeker]

27. Plus 1

Last edited Tue Nov 22, 2016, 02:20 AM - Edit history (1)

[Sunny05]

14. ?

[JI7]

17. how the fuck was that identity politics ?

[Qutzupalotl]

19. It's playing the gender card.

[JI7]

22. how the fuck is that playing the gender card ?

[Hekate]

23. So if Bernie's campaign slogan was I'm With Him it would have been a bad thing too?

Please explain how that would work, gender-identity-wise.

[Qutzupalotl]

28. It wouldn't, and it wouldn't have been chosen

because it says nothing. The reason I'm With Her was chosen is because it said nothing, but also happened to mention gender.

[bravenak]

29. Double Standard alert!

[Qutzupalotl]

32. Not at all. I'm saying both slogans sucked.

(I'm With Her and I'm With Him.) One was chosen deliberatly to play up the gender of the candidate. For a man to emphasize his gender against Trump would make even less sense.

We should stick to statements of policy and vision. We were on the right track with Stronger Together.

[SidDithers]

47. Can you believe this shit?...nt

Sid

[BlueMTexpat]

58. 1! eom

[Hekate]

31. I think you're wrong on all counts, but arguing this is pointless. She won by nearly 2 million votes

So whoever was offended and turned off because she didn't look Presidential (too short and missing that certain je ne sais qua despite the pantsuits) -- she still won by a hefty margin in a system rigged to send a white male fascist to the White House instead.

But let's argue about how she played the gender identity card and it cost her the knuckle-dragger vote, instead of how we can overturn this appalling system and get a Constitutional Amendment, because that will be so much more productive.

[BlueMTexpat]

57. Well-stated ...

I am so tired of the "mansplainers" - men or not - who try to intimidate.

[BainsBane]

37. I think what you mean to say

Is that we shouldn't allow women to run for the presidency so as not to "play the gender card." If simply using a pronoun is unacceptable, that means being a woman is unacceptable.

I have no doubt your demands will be successful. I expect the first woman to be president--if we ever have one--will be a rabid right winger who will make John Bolton and Donald Trump look like lefties. "Progressive" men who refused to vote for Clinton have successfully communicated their views that all people are not created equal. They got their way. That they ushered in fascism is doubtless for them a small price to pay for the more important goal of maintaining white male rule.

[Qutzupalotl]

38. Think again.

This wasn't "simply using a pronoun." This was a conscious effort to play up her gender. It was a gamble. I don't blame her for doing it; after all, her gender was one of her unique qualities. First female major party candidate is a hell of an accomplishment. But to pretend it wasn't identity politics is to change the definition.

You are reading a lot more into what I'm saying than I'm saying. I made no demands; that's your imagination. I'm on the same team. We both voted Hillary, we're both Democrats in the Postmortem forum trying to find out what we can do better next time. We need to be clear-eyed about what we did and did not do.

[BainsBane]

39. I'm glad you voted for Hillary

but some guys who object to "the gender card" did not. I cannot foresee any woman candidate that will not be blamed for "playing the gender card" if the standard is to manage to never remind voters than the candidate is female. For one thing, women tend to care about women's rights. Some of us actually like that. We don't think our lives amount to "culture wars" or "identity politics." We think of ourselves as citizens whose rights and votes actually matter.

Better next time, therefore, has to mean white and male. I feel sure that will be the result for some time to come. I happen to believe that continuing to ensure that the majority of Americans are precluded from that office because of gender is awful.

And just how is "grabbing them by the pussy" not a gender card? It's the card of a male sexual predator. His entire campaign was a performance of white male dominance. Parading the women Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary with before the cameras, then stalking her around the debate stage like a predator? That was all about a savage masculinity. But she played the "gender card" by using the word "her" on bumper stickers and pins.

[Qutzupalotl]

51. I am not saying identity politics is necessarily bad.

I'm just saying we did it.

Better next time does not have to be white and male. You said that, not me.

I never said Trump wasn't showing toxic masculinity by being a predator. You seem to be equating any criticism of our side — which is what this forum is for — with making excuses for Trump. He's a vile monster and I hate everything he stands for. Happy now?

[ismnotwasm]

61. There is no "gender card"

Nor is there a "race card" those are memes used by those used to not thinking deeply about either issue, ultimately to brush them off as irrelevant from lack of knowledge or concern.

[Qutzupalotl]

62. You're right. I apologize for using that term.

I was responding to a hostile reply and did not choose my words carefully.

What I should have said is, "I'm With Her" played up her historic role as the first female candidate. It was chosen in the belief that some women would vote for her by virtue of the fact that she was a woman. I call that identity politics.

[ismnotwasm]

40. No, it wasn't.

[uponit7771]

49. vs I'm with him?! You do understand how .... tilted ..... this response is right?! tia

[BlueMTexpat]

56. That is pure and

simple merde de taureau.

But yes, do, by all means, continue to hit on Hillary and her campaign - after all, she only has a 1.7+ million MORE votes than Trump. What is f**ked up is the Electoral College, voter intimidation and purges, and hacking in key states. There seem to be too many revisionist "historians" who post here at DU!

I'll bet that you are not a woman. You apparently don't recognize your own "mansplaining" and continue to do it. Keep on digging.

[Qutzupalotl]

59. Why does it matter what I am

unless you don't recognize your own identity politics?

Again, I'm not saying identity politics is bad. I'm not attacking her or her campaign. It was a gamble to play up her aspect of the first female major-party candidate, which was in itself a historic achievement, but that is what was done. I don't like where we are now any more than you do.

This is the postmortem forum, so I'm calling it as I see it in hopes we can win back what we've lost someday. And I hope we do get more female representatives so congress looks like America. And a female president is fine by me, which is why I voted for her. Hopefully we won't bat an eye at the next woman presidential candidate.

Imagine if both parties nominated women. We'd run a campaign focused on the issues, and we'd win.

[BlueMTexpat]

72. LOL eom

[niyad]

69. codswallop

[Sunny05]

15. Absolutely.

[JI7]

18. She also picked a White Straight Christian Male to be her VP Running Mate

[BainsBane]

25. Catholic

which doesn't count as Christian to the Christian right.

[DemonGoddess]

45. Boy howdy you nailed that one

Being Catholic, I guarantee you I've had many "Christians" over the years tell me that I can't be, BECAUSE I'm Catholic. My usual response to that nonsense was that their faith was the bastard child of MINE. I know, not a nice thing to say, but I tell ya, it got really old, really fast.

[JI7]

24. "There will never be another like him"

that's a common saying among those who love Obama. i wonder if people will claim that is playing to gender card.


( oh, they will probably say it's playing the race card. )

[SunSeeker]

26. K & R

[bravenak]

30. Absolutely

[duffyduff]

33. It is inclusion. Appealing to the racist, sexist white dudes is NOT.

Those guys cannot EVER be reached because their minds are closed. They would have to suffer a Great Depression type of destruction in their lives to ever come around. We don't have that here in this country and it hasn't gotten that bad for them to ever get out of their bigoted, entitled bubbles to hear common sense.

The problem isn't with Democrats' "failure to communicate" to these idiots--it is with these idiots' complete failure to LISTEN.

We need to reject them. They need to just die out. I gave up on them years ago because of their stupidity in voting every single time against their economic self-interest.

[forjusticethunders]

53. Well, we elected Trump so we might get that. Heighten those contradictions baby!

[Starry Messenger]

34. K&R

[Lucinda]

35. KNR Thank you!

[lunamagica]

36. Right on, Thank you!

[aikoaiko]

41. Unless it was perceived as Stronger Together against White Males

And yes, you are correct that white nationalism or white male supremacy, more generally, is the ultimate identity politics in the US.

Who in the Democratic Party is attacking women and people of color in our post-election?

We do stand for equal rights.

[BainsBane]

42. Guess

It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out. Only he's not a Democrat.

Who is making a tour of American telling Democrats "I told you so" while cashing in on a book deal?

Trump voters saw Obama's presidency as an affront to their privilege. Toni Morrison writes about that in the New Yorker. The election was a whitelash, by men in particular. Now, according to Sanders, women and people of color need to keep our mouths shut so that the more important, white male voter doesn't feel threatened. The goal would seem to be to make the Democratic Party Trump lite.

[aikoaiko]

50. Bernie is not telling women and minorities to keep their mouths shut at all.

I read the Morrison piece but still Obama was able to negotiate two successful presidential campaigns that overcame white fear of losing white privilege (which includes economic prosperity) as it is framed by avoiding identity politics.


In 2004, Senator Obama was already outlining his strategy and rhetorical approach as a national candidate - "There is not a liberal America and a conservative America - there is the United States of America. There is not a black America and a white America and latino America and Asian America - there's the United States of America."

Of course he knows that Black Americans experience a different and many times horrific America as compared to White Americans, but that's not how he campaigned.

[Feeling the Bern]

54. Party before principle. Got it. I love this circular firing squad.

You know, Zell Miller, Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman are Democrats. So is Joe Manchin.

I guess we should follow their leads and tell Bernie, who is a damn fine progressive, to go fuck himself. . .after all, he isn't a Democrat.

[BainsBane]

63. What is the principle Bernie is standing up for?

That white male votes are just more important? That Latinas shouldn't dare to identify their ethnicity? That women need to leave the politics for the men folks? That it's okay for him to attack any woman who seeks office as running on her gender alone, even when he has done so in regard to offices that no woman has ever held, whether in VT in the 80s or the presidency in 2016? That kind of angry response to women in public life may be a principle for you, but it is not for a party in which women and people of color represent the great majority of voters. Meanwhile, he shows a stunning blindness to the identity politics of white nationalism that dominated this election. His lecture is reserved for women and people of color.

I do not agree than white male interests and votes matter more. Bernie's comments, which he has repeated for years now, violate my core principles of equal rights and inclusion. I do not support his efforts to remake the Democratic Party in the image of the Trump voters he sees as so much more valuable than the Democratic base. I find that hierarchical, reactionary view entirely objectionable. Turning the clock back fifty or more years is not progressive. It is the very definition of regressive.

You do realize that rant came in response to a Latina woman--a Bernie supporters--who merely said she wanted to be the second Latina Senator. He didn't ask her what she might run on. Instead, his immediate response was to attack her gender and ethnicity, as though she couldn't possibly have any contribution beyond that. I understand that sort of attitude has a great deal of currency for white men who resent the changing demographics of American society. That is why they voted for Trump.

[Feeling the Bern]

67. Evidence please.

[Demsrule86]

43. Thank you.

I literally went white hot with rage when I listened to that video. Hillary Clinton won the primary with millions more votes than any other presidential candidate. Her popular vote count is the third highest in history and is growing. I am thinking the election was stolen in rural areas, small towns where there were no observers.

[BainsBane]

46. I didn't see the video

I read about it. I went to look for it but got sidetracked with video of some moron's radio show applauding Bernie's comments. I guess Kellyanne liked them too. That got me wondering.

[DemonGoddess]

44. K&R!

[SidDithers]

48. DU rec...nt

Sid

[kenfrequed]

55. You are right

It wasn't identity politics.

But most of her phrases and slogans were wildly platitudinous and they did not reference back to her agenda.

While a good slogan can be a bit vague and contain platitudes it does have to reflect back to what a candidates intentions would be. If you cannot connect it back it makes it a bit weaker.

As horrible as Drumpfs disgusting slogan was, people understood what it was about. It also made use of active tense that suggested moving in a direction.

[BainsBane]

60. She isn't good at sloganeering

Her forte is substantive policy, rolling up her sleeves and getting to work. Too many prefer to be pandered and even lied to.

[kenfrequed]

71. She had staff for slogans

The problem is that she needed both a slogan and a strong, coherent policy that connected to that. Anyone running for office has to tell you why you should should show up and vote for them. The die hards will show up to vote for county commissioner. But you need to be able to summon up more than that.

[JCanete]

64. Who attacked women and people of color? Are you hinting that that was what Sanders did? nt

[BainsBane]

65. Yes

His comments were in response to a supporter of his who said she wanted to be the second Latina Senator. Rather than asking what issues she would run on, he went off on her. He assumed she would run as a woman and Latina, nothing more. His attacks on identity politics are about dismissing the concerns and participation of women and people of color. It is particularly ironic considering the Trump campaign won precisely through identity politics: white nationalism.

[JCanete]

68. I just watched the video. He assumed nothing of the sort.

He said he wanted more diversity in positions of power and that it was a good thing, but that that was not enough on its own. That wasn't defeating this woman out of hand, it was prescribing a way of being a candidate that he and people could believe in.

So just because Trump won on identity politics in an election cycle where there was little alternative, you want to pit identity politics against identity politics over and over again? That can cut either way, maybe every other 8 years, but that's a fucking horrible plan. We really do need to figure out how to court white people to the party because they are suffering from uncertainty too, and they are being led to drink cool aide because the democrats have abdicated time and time again, the opportunity to give them a better, more truthful narrative.

We need to quit playing the game that has been laid out for us, because we are playing against ourselves.

[shenmue]

66. Amen

[niyad]

70. k and r