On Rural America: Understanding Isn't The Problem

[progressoid]

As the aftermath of the election of Donald Trump is being sorted out, a common theme keeps cropping up from all sides-”Democrats failed to understand white, working class, fly-over America.” Trump supports are saying this. Progressive pundits are saying this. Talking heads across all forms of the media are saying this. Even some Democratic leaders are saying this. It doesn’t matter how many people say it, it is complete bullshit. It is an intellectual/linguistic sleight of hand meant to throw attention away from the real problem. The real problem isn’t east coast elites don’t understand or care about rural America. The real problem is rural America doesn’t understand the causes of their own situations and fears and they have shown no interest in finding out. They don’t want to know why they feel the way they do or why they are struggling because the don’t want to admit it is in large part because of choices they’ve made and horrible things they’ve allowed themselves to believe.

I grew up in rural, Christian, white America. You’d be hard-pressed to find an area in the country that has a higher percentage of Christians or whites. I spent most of the first twenty-four years of my life deeply embedded in this culture. I religiously (*pun intended) attended their Christian services. I worked off and on, on their rural farms. I dated their calico skirted daughters. I camped, hunted, and fished with their sons. I listened to their political rants at the local diner and truck stop. I winced at their racist/bigoted jokes and epithets that were said more out of ignorance than animosity. I have also watched the town I grew up in go from a robust economy with well-kept homes and infrastructure turn into a struggling economy with shuttered businesses, dilapidated homes, and a broken down infrastructure over the past thirty years. The problem isn’t that I don’t understand these people. The problem is they don’t understand themselves, the reasons for their anger/frustrations, and don’t seem to care to know why.

In deep red, white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally. Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems. Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive for introspection, questioning, learning, change. When you have a belief system that is built on fundamentalism, it isn’t open to outside criticism, especially by anyone not a member of your tribe and in a position of power. The problem isn’t “coastal elites don’t understand rural Americans.” The problem is rural America doesn’t understand itself and will NEVER listen to anyone outside their bubble. It doesn’t matter how “understanding” you are, how well you listen, what language you use…if you are viewed as an outsider, your views are automatically discounted. I’ve had hundreds of discussions with rural white Americans and whenever I present them any information that contradicts their entrenched beliefs, no matter how sound, how unquestionable, how obvious, they WILL NOT even entertain the possibility it might be true. Their refusal is a result of the nature of their fundamentalist belief system and the fact I’m the enemy because I’m an educated liberal. At some point during the discussion, “That’s your education talking,” will be said, derogatorily, as a general dismissal of everything I said. They truly believe this is a legitimate response because to them education is not to be trusted. Education is the enemy of fundamentalism because fundamentalism, by its very nature, is not built on facts. The fundamentalists I grew up around aren’t anti-education. They want their kids to know how to read and write. They are anti-quality, in-depth, broad, specialized education. Learning is only valued up to the certain point. Once it reaches the level where what you learn contradicts doctrine and fundamentalist arguments, it becomes dangerous.

more...http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

[geek tragedy]

1. it's been my experience that the approach of blaming the voters never ends in success nt

[LonePirate]

3. These voters have a world/country view that is frozen in time.

Should we coddle them or should we drag them into present day America?

[geek tragedy]

13. engage with respect, even where there is considerable disagreement.

we cannot drag them into anything. we don't have the political power to do so.

[treestar]

54. I don't know that this type of person

doesn't respond mostly to tough love.

I've run into people that were a pain until I got angry and yelled and them and then they were full of respect. Freaked me out.

Somehow I think that applies to these voters.

[geek tragedy]

57. Tough love. Both parts matter.

If there's no love, it's just condemnation.

[PotatoChip]

14. I wonder what part of rural America this person came from.

"Calico skirted girls"?... I almost never see women wearing dresses around here. Brrr!

"Religious Fundamentalism"?... New England rural people are quite secular in comparison with most of the rest of the country.

"Racism"?... I have no doubt that there are racists here just like everywhere else. However, don't people kind of need to live among another race in order to actually practice racism? Or more accurately, to even give the subject of race much thought at all? OTOH, I see racism in action every time I visit my daughter in NYC. And no matter how many times I go, it never fails to shock in how blatant and pervasive it is.

But in getting back to the stereotyping in this article, I have a question for urban dwellers: Are all urban areas culturally the same? For example, Is Seattle just like Atlanta? Is Boston just like San Diego? Is St Louis just like Phoenix?

[haele]

24. Likewise, I've been to a lot of these "rural" American Areas...

Is Opp, Alabama like Reading, California?

Actually, yes - if I crossed the main drag in Opp and ended up in Reading, there wouldn't be that much of a lifestyle or cultural difference.
Now, all of the cities you mention, even NYC, are ones I've also been to...
Yes, culturally, areas in Boston can be very much like areas in San Diego, just as areas in St. Louis can be like areas in Phoenix, and certainly areas in Seattle can be very much like areas in Atlanta.
Because in urban life, there is a mix of isolated cultural enclaves - that are bound together by economic necessity.

Just to function, the "urban" or city/city complex has to be flexible to the needs of all the cultural enclaves, or it falls apart. The dysfunction in urban society comes from the lack of interaction between the various segments of society, not from the diversity inherent in the cities.

Rural enclaves that the OP is discussing - the small towns and the flyover communities (not suburbs and bedroom communities ) are relatively easier to socially engineer than urban complexes. There are typically a smaller number of families, and thus a closer familial bonding and relations within these communities.
If a rural area lacks diversity or chooses not to recognize certain social groupings along economic, racial, or religious lines, there's far fewer resources at hand that any identified populations that are outside the main culture can use to impact the rest of the enclave, and any group that is on the outside is typically facing a united significant majority, even if there's diversity amongst that majority.
In a community of 5,000 inhabitants with only two or three major churches or community organizational groups, if 100 or so people don't agree with the way things are being run and start to make noise about it, they can be easily identified and cowed into submission - or otherwise forced not to participate by the majority.
A "secular" New England town still has a majority of people who are tied by familial or long-established societal bonds, and they've grown up with the same social conscious that certain activities and actions are good, and certain ones are bad, because that's what the community developed to maintain a localized social order over the generations.

In an urban complex, the minority groups are larger and there are typically far more of them - and each has their own community organizational resource within them. If one racial group is being targeted or isolated by a perceived majority, there are generally other racial or religious groups that will stand by them because they also can just as quickly become a minority that is targeted.
In all the cities mentioned, there are over 100 unique minority groups in each that consider themselves organized and who will get together for representation in the local government. They have to work together politically, even if a few individuals in each group want to be (FITB)-ist a-holes to anyone that doesn't look like them, act like them, talk like them or worship like them. Very few of these groups have enough social power to stand on their own, and they know it.

Whereas in rural enclaves - I've been to very few where the minority have much of a voice. The established majority still makes the rules, and any minority groups just have to hope that it's a benevolent majority rather than an indifferent or hostile majority.

I've seen a lot more blatant hostility to minorities in rural enclaves. Especially when you're an outsider - it's much easier to notice bigotry and hostility when you're not a native. Try driving through rural Nevada in your own car with Calilfornia plates...there's quite a few places in the remote eastern area where you just stay on the highway and hope the local badge-toting yokels don't decide they want some revenue from those "rich liberal elites"...

I guess we'd just have to leave this discussion with a polite agree to disagree.

Haele

[atreides1]

5. It's been my experience

That people need to learn to take responsibility for their actions! That's not blaming, it's called being an adult!

[Yavin4]

10. You help people the most by telling them the truth.

Indulging their views DOES NOTHING to help them. Their views cause them to make bad decisions which lead to their struggles.

[geek tragedy]

16. do you think calling them "deplorable" worked out for us? nt

[Yavin4]

20. You're correct. Calling them names puts them on the defensive.

However, indulging them by insulting people in Blue states is even worse.

[world wide wally]

22. Trump seems to have gotten by just fine with calling Mexicans rapists, Muslims terrorists,

Blacks lazy, the press the scum of the Earth, protesters losers and so forth.
Hey! Maybe the election was rigged!
Just a thought.

[mountain grammy]

38. But he never called them deplorable.

the unforgivable blunder. Go figure.

[plimsoll]

34. It's the new Political Correct.

We have to be polite while we're called libtards, sheeple etc. and remember they want to be called Alt-Right.

[mountain grammy]

39. yes, because it sounds so much nicer than Nazi.

welcome to DU..

[plimsoll]

40. More like welcome to delurking.

[mountain grammy]

41. Time for all of us to raise our voices

everywhere! Glad you're speaking out. I lurked for a good 4 years before finally jumping in and put my foot in my mouth more than once. But what the hell. I'm not brilliant, but, if I'm here, I'm learning, and that's what counts.

[JCanete]

35. Thanks, yes. People don't change by being berated and abused when they can

retreat back into their comfort zones. The next generation won't be so easily courted either, if we keep on telling them their parent's are backwards rubes and monsters.

It is ironic that we can be so empathetic when it comes to some people and some issues, but so judgmental and punitive when it comes to others. Granted, it seems as Democrats, being punitive tends to rarely go beyond criticism or shaming, but it's still a dehumanizing tendency, and either people are people across the board, or we can all continue to pick our arbitrary methods of choosing the good ones from the bad ones.

[geek tragedy]

36. There's a lot of justifiable anger at those who put Trump

into the White House. But anger isn't a strategy.

[LeftishBrit]

58. Unfortunately sometimes anger *is* a strategy. As it was for Trump.

[northoftheborder]

2. The Fundamentalist Mind Set:

Described perfectly. Very true, very accurate; I grew up in this atmosphere; it still exists; but I often wonder how did I grow out of it when most did not???

[progressoid]

7. Indeed.

I too grew up in a very red area. Most of the people I grew up with are still living with this mentality. And they seem to have no desire to broaden their view of the world.

And the last couple decades of media onslaught from the xenophobic right has only made the problem worse.

[get the red out]

9. I grew up in Appalachia

I'm 52 years old though and was a kid during final the coal boom, and there were still more people there that didn't just think like they were told to think (my Dad for one) when I was growing up than there are now.

Something no one dares talk about though is the generations of the best and brightest that left those hills for jobs in what is now the rust belt, but good jobs then, and they educated their kids, who didn't go back to what their parents left. I have relatives who did that, they were and are very intelligent people. It wasn't the scared people, the people tied at the hip to a "way of life", or people who weren't driven to excel that left to find a better life. The smart, ambitious, brave people picked up and left, and generally did fine. Over the generations, if you empty a region of people like that, because there are fewer and fewer jobs to keep them there, it takes a toll on the culture and population IMO.

[Yavin4]

12. "The smart, ambitious, brave people picked up and left, and generally did fine."

That's the key right there. The descendants of those smart people moved to areas where there's diversity of talent and opportunities. IOW, adaptable cultures.

[Turin_C3PO]

19. Some of your comment is very insulting.

You're basically saying only stupid people are left in Appalachia and other rural areas.

[Canoe52]

30. I disagree

I lived in corn country for the last 32 years and saw the same thing. Not saying all the smart people left, but the pool of smart, ambitious, and brave people are diminished, leaving behind the ones that don't question too deeply what's going on and the ones who are happy with a simple, punch the clock type job.
The people smart enough to recognize what's going on and ambitious and brave enough to try to change things are just not there in numbers enough to make much of a difference.

[get the red out]

45. Some

Some are very smart but brought up to fear the outside world then pass on fear and hopelessness to their offspring. And others figure out how to exploit them, like typical sociopaths.

Sorry if you are offended by my lack of gas lighting, my personal experience renders that impossible.

[Ligyron]

26. That's a great observation and big part of it plus it's not confined to Appalachia by any means.

[get the red out]

46. Not confined at all, I am sure

But my personal experience was growing up in eastern Kentucky, so that is the region I know most about.

[Beartracks]

4. Blaming elites for not understanding...

Good point. Blaming elites for not understanding the needs of "flyover country" relies explicitly on buying into the us-vs-them notion of coastal/educated people being elitist in the first place. Could it not also be argued that the problem obviously lies with rural folk not understanding the urban/coastal elites?

================

[RobinA]

49. Well, That These People

in flyover country have been voting against their interests for quite some time now doesn't clarify the picture either. They have now done it again big time. I live outside Philadelphia, have a Masters degree, and make not much money. Am I a coastal elite? Is it my responsiblity to make sure Joe Pick-Up Truck understands that when you vote for avowed union busters you vote against better pay and job security for yourself, even if you aren't in a union? Is it the Democratic Party's responsibility? I don't know eitehr.

[mac56]

6. Much like a cult.

[Yavin4]

8. I said the same thing in my earlier post: Adaptable vs. Rigid

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028284218

[Fast Walker 52]

11. Good article, though no doubt offends rural people (I had posted this on FB

and a rural person thought it was propaganda and insulting).

I'm not sure what the solution is-- these people are indeed frozen in time by religion and a lot of bad news media choices.

[treestar]

15. That's a very good article

Shows why they are impervious to reason.

[Elmergantry]

17. odd isnt it

How the modern university was invented by the church

[plimsoll]

18. Not entirely in agreement with this, but

A great deal of this talks about observable behavior. We can say what we want, but I think we should acknowledge that a significant portion of our society does not accept observable reality as "real." Another portion of society will vote for anyone who has the little (R) by their name. "Republicans for Voldemort" was a funny joke, but also contained a grain of truth.

If you want to say that we need to recognize the motivations, and shouldn't be condescending, I can agree with that. I think we can be insufferable and rude, but it's a trait that is reciprocated with interest. When we choose to "understand" the bigotry, we're tacitly condoning it. It is also the behavior that the most committed members of the right are counting on. The Steve Bannons of the world know that on principal we'll try to avoid thinking ill of our fellows, it's their chief weapon.

[ieoeja]

21. Understanding isn't the problem. Engaging is.

Bill Clinton famously spent the 1992 general election campaigning against the Democratic House. He tried convincing people that he, as a fellow Democrat, could rein in the out of control, liberal Democrats better than a Republican President. It working for him was used by a famous think tank to convince other rural Democrats to follow suit. That think tank also started primaring incumbent, rural Democrats often recruiting moderate Republicans to do so.

Since 1992 rural Democrats have spent all their time telling rural Americans that liberals are evil, m'kay? While that might occassionally work over the long haul most people start thinking, "if liberal Democrats are evil, why should I vote for a good Democrat who will side with the evil Democrats a lot of the time when I could vote for a good Republican who will not?"

Democrats understand rural people just fine. They just refuse to sell their ideas to rural people instead trying to coopt Republican ideas. I grew up in a swing district that usually swung Democratic. They have now not elected a Democrat in decades because the local Democratic party told them Democrats suck.

[elmac]

23. I put the entire blame of America's fall into facism

in the hands of the corporate media, the FBI (too busy trying to destroy HRC while letting russia poison our election) and the influence of money on our elections.

[blue neen]

25. I live in "Rural America".

Calico skirts??? You have got to be kidding me. I'm sorry, but this OP may be correct for some areas, but it sure isn't correct for this area of Pennsylvania.

Condescension on its own is bad enough---condescension based on false premises is even worse. People need to stop pretending they know why my neighbors voted for Donald Trump. The reasons are myriad and complex.

Let's make the problem worse, shall we?!? Ugh.

[Ligyron]

28. Well he did offer an alternative with gingham dresswear.

The men, however, must wear gimme baseball caps. When you get to the cities you have to wear them backwards.

Except in Texas where a cowboy hat is mandatory along with boots if you're rural.

[Amishman]

47. I agree, the article posted is bullshit IMO

Very little of it aligns with my experiences in rural PA.

Education is highly valued but often wasted due to a lack of jobs. I have friends with marketing and graphics design degrees that work clerical jobs because in years of searching they cannot find work in their fields.

Outside of the plain folk, I don't see people around me live lives dominated by religious dogma

This type of dismissal of middle America as ignorant rednecks is exactly what got us in this mess

[blue neen]

48. Bingo!

Agree with everything you say.

[alarimer]

27. The right wing needs an uneducated populace.

It's the only way they ever win: by pitting various groups against each other.

As we have seen this year (and also in the past- see Nazi Germany for one), the right wing play up the dangers of the "other" to get people to vote against their own best interests.

[Yo_Mama]

29. To me, this reads as deranged raving. Maybe some need to believe it, but WTF?

Unless this person is describing a Brotherhood, conservative Mennonite or Amish county, he's out of touch. And there are not many of those.

The young people in rural areas dress like anyone else. They do not go to special "rube" dances. In all too many rural areas, drugs and early pregnancy are a big problem.

The social bonds and disfunctions of urban depressed communities and rural depressed communities are very similar. VERY similar.

[Squinch]

31. This OP isn't getting much love, but I think it is exactly right in its essentials.

Rural America clearly doesn't know where its problems originate, and it does show a stubborn refusal to figure it out.

Everyone is getting hung up on the calico skirts. For a while in the 70's they were fashionable, so let that go. Read the rest of it. It's pretty dead on.

I'm not turning myself inside out to figure out where we went wrong. We didn't go wrong. These people are just idiots. Maybe 4 years of Trump will teach them something about where their problems come from.

[renate]

32. I literally could not recommend this more highly

I hope it's read and studied and understood by everybody who thinks that it was our (as in Democrats') liberal-elite failure to sympathize with rural America.

[Dawson Leery]

33. "The smart, ambitious, brave people picked up and left, and generally did fine."

Time to start importing the food.

[TroubleMan]

37. As a white, Christian southerner, this is spot on.

Yes, my experiences are anecdotal, but I see exactly what he's describing a lot.

[mountain grammy]

42. What he says about the Depression and FDR

reminded me of a conversation I had with my father in law. He was a kid of the ripe old age of 8 when the Great Depression hit. He had one sister a year older and one a year younger. They were already dirt poor, living in southwest Texas, and it only got worse. Somehow, they survived and they all got to vote for FDR's last term. His sisters remained life long Democrats, and neither were believers, but, my father in law married a deeply religious woman and they were fundamentalist and Republican to their core. When we took care of the old man before he died in 2012. he was a fox watching, flag waving Republican and claimed he always was. I said, but you told me you voted for Roosevelt in 1944 and he was a Democrat. The old man looked at me and said, everyone voted for Roosevelt.

Somehow, all that never took with my husband, and he left home right after high school, but he credits the Army with opening his eyes to the narrow minded views of his family. My dad always said the Marines and my mom saved him.

[ancianita]

43. As my therapist got me to say in 1980: "Understanding is the booby prize." NOW WHAT.

ALSO: There are two kinds of people in the world:

those who have problems and know it, and

those who have problems and don't know it.

The OP reminds me of how much ground these ideas cover across all kinds of politics and cultures.

And Squinch is right: Rural America clearly doesn't know where its problems originate, and it does show a stubborn refusal to figure it out.

[OhioBlue]

44. If rural America doesn't understand its own frustrations

and fears, it is the fault of leadership, or lack thereof. The Dem party, DLC, etc. has let them down and allowed unions to be decimated. Jobs left, brain drain happened, futures changed and the DNC/DLC went the third way. Now, factories closed, these rural neighbors have found other (less lucrative) jobs, been through "retraining", watched their kids rack up tens of thousands of dollars in College debt, had homes foreclosed or sold on a short sale, etc. Now, many are listening to FOX News or talk radio, they don't even have a shared experience with us any longer. The article is judging them based on what we know rather than what they know. The local papers are conservative. The local leaders are conservative. The is no longer a strong union presence. This was a break down by leadership within the liberal/progressive movement going back decades. The Cons kicked our asses out here. Gerrymandering, propaganda, think tanks, talk radio, loss of unions, etc. have led to a complete breakdown of local leadership and messaging.

[RobinA]

50. ALLOWED Unions

to be decimated? How about the people who vote for union decimators? Air traffic controllers? Blue collar America has been on notice since 1981. I'll agree that Dems have done a somewhat crappy job at education, but if a voter understands English he or she should know who is on what side here. It's a two way street.

[Cosmocat]

53. Correct

Nm

[Lotusflower70]

51. Looking at the surface

The article shows a complete lack of understanding and mainly wants to blame as well as justify and rationalize the writer's pov. You can't force someone to change. You can't shake them into change. And insulting, looking down on them or dismissing them isn't going to help. The idea of being open minded and tolerant has to be utilized when trying to reach out and understand and opposing view. I have been talking to Trump voters to try to understand more than talking points or generalizations. This article speaks in talking points and generalizations. It's reactive and looking to blame as opposed to being proactive or looking to understand and learn. The gap will remain if you don't consider the other especially when you disagree.

[COLGATE4]

55. How do you suggest we try to 'reach out and understand' these

good folk about open-mindness and tolerance when their belief system is the antithesis of both?
Or, as was so aptly illustrated in Blazing Saddles

[Lotusflower70]

56. Communication

Their belief system isn't as simplistic as that. For some, you can't reach them. They are too set in their ways. I do understand and appreciate that. Part of it had to do with the division in the Democratic party as well as ignoring part of the base. But there is a segment of Trump voters that were Democrats that turned. And it was motivated by a lot of different things. This segment you might be able to reach as well as some of the working class. It has to be state by state groundwork as well as through use of technology. There are some Trump supporters that saw him as the "lesser evil" and that is their reality. Just like all liberals don't necessarily believe all the same things or vote for the same reason, I am just trying to consider that possibility from a Republican perspective.

[Riftaxe]

52. Contempt for Rural America

got us a lunatic for president.

Contempt for the working class *inflect your own rascist wants here* got us this far, I am pretty sure contempt for people just got us screwed.

Keep discounting people and with folks like the author we will lose what little we have left.