2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPrior to the Civil Rights Act, Democrats used to have some of the most virulent racists
in their party. After the CRA passed, these racists slowly moved on.
When some white men start saying things like 'we need to ditch identity politics' the rest of us begin to wonder what Democratic party are you trying to build?
one whose motto is 'stronger together' or one that attracts the white working class while pushing every other working class person out of the door?
People need to think more carefully about the type of coalition they truly want and who they are willing to shove out for it.
1964 was not that long ago.
still_one
(92,217 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)makes me wonder how many of us really would be ok if we were pre-1964 democrats.
still_one
(92,217 posts)Democrats for the most part ignored the Southern Democrats racism, pretending it didn't exist, which was itself a racist act
radical noodle
(8,003 posts)democrats, I'm gone... and I think a lot of others would be gone as well.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)be shoved out the door to make room for others? Many former Democrats believe the white working class was shoved out of the door to make room for blacks and Hispanics. Why should most blacks be Democrats or whites Republicans? That sets up an 'us against them' division. It's time for both parties to end the sickness that is identity politics. Trump is a direct result of identity politics.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Hillary's loss is the result of black identity politics, so go forward and fix that.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)just because you say something doesn't make it true.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)the way they did for Obama. Not my opinion, but fact.
http://www.salon.com/2016/11/10/the-real-reason-black-voters-didnt-turn-out-for-hillary-clinton-and-how-to-fix-it/
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)including the 2013 Supreme Court decision striking down federal oversight of elections. Well, it worked.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)that article was written well before all votes were counted
also, clearly if whites had voted like blacks or asians or hispanics, this would not have happened.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)just as those same people blamed blacks for Obama's election. Identity politics is a deadly force and it cuts in every direction.
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)What you just did was usd a specious "reverse racism" type argument
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)WTF is reverse racism?
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)i literally dont know wtf you are talking about.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Ligyron
(7,633 posts)and standing up for the rights of all people.
It's all about thje money - always has been.
Everybody, no matter their sex or ethnic background basically wants the same things, safe places to raise their families, enough money to do so, a good education so they can find a worthwhile career and enough money (again)to live comfortably once they retire along with other things along the way.Like decent healthcare and some vacation time.
The GOPers will provide little to none of the above except for maybe the 5 or 10% and probably for less than that.
The Democratic party can be seen to represent the majority of Americans without trampling the rights of anyone.
That's my take on what was said.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)there are many ways of fixing this, but focusing on identity politics (which used to be a right wing term), is dumb and unwarranted
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)The receiver did not get the message. We need to do better at communicating this.
jalan48
(13,870 posts)I get the feeling Identity Politics means us vs. them.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)just focus on the economy.
although a black mother who is middle class may be more afraid that the cops will shoot her son than the economy. let's never talk about her.
Ligyron
(7,633 posts)perceived was a loss of "white privilege" and a changing culture they'll probably never adapt to. I've no way to actually prove that but I still think it's true. It's a f.u. backlash thing for a lot of them.
Bad news for them is: the people and culture they don't cotton to ain't going away and eventually the demographics and attrition will take care of that problem - whether they like it or not.
Unemployment isn't really that bad either even in the rust belt. We've all seen the figures - it's under 5% for the most part.
The problem, of course, is that the jobs they or their kids have now don't pay anything like what it takes to maintain the lifestyle of a middle class family 30 or 40 years ago and NAFTA has become the whipping boy for many of them in that respect. They blame the likes of Hillary for NAFTA even though it was a GOP push through for the most part, just like the crime bill. For them, with their traditional view of things, the wife is just a reflection of her husband, Bill's will.
So ironically, some POC are pissed at her for the crime bill but she get's no credit for it from the WWC who probably support the sickening result. Nonetheless, the WWC probably DO blame her for NAFTA and associate her with trade problems like the TTP she once supported.
She can't win and now some people wish she'd never tried.
What everybody really needs is an increase in income and I think that's what we should be all about. That doesn't mean we throw our people to the wolves of voter suppression and killer cops and we push back on bigotry and and violation of civil rights every
time.
But those people and their attitudes are not going away until they eventually die off anyway. Plus, we can't do anything to help anybody until we regain quite a bit of the ground that was lost under the present Democratic leadership and our main message from now on in order to do so should be an economic one.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)And we really need to hone in on that economic message.
meow2u3
(24,764 posts)Ideological realignment began with the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the VRA, which Dixiecrats didn't like one bit. Nixon accelerated the realignment with his dog-whistle-laden "Southern Strategy" to lure white supremacists to the repig party and slowly, racist Dems have switched parties from Dem to puke.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Clinton gave us name-checking of specific demographics at speeches, followed up by referring to 20-45% of the country as "deplorable."
People in rural Wisconsin could disagree with Obama but feel that he respected them. There's a reason he constantly referred to his family from Kansas--to reinforce the commonality even between small town auto repair mechanics and a guy whose ancestors came from Kenya and who studied at Harvard.
I think Clinton found herself in a trap--she needed to really boost turnout amongst the Obama coalition, which wasn't as naturally responsive to her. But, she may have neglected to include all segments of society in her outreach--at least in terms of perception if not in terms of policy.
So, no, don't stop celebrating our diversity and certainly never abandon our commitment to civil rights.
At the same time, make sure everyone--regardless of where they live or whether they like NASCAR etc feels at home in the party. I think the focus on the "coalition of the ascendant" had the effect of making some feel like they weren't visible to the party.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)he might have also said something similar if he had (clinging on bitterly to god and guns, for instance)
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that way, even if they've earned it.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)God
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to be empathetic and (b) wasn't intended for public consumption and (c) didn't state these people were irredeemable.
It was also eerily prescient re: Trump.
This is the "economic anxiety" argument.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Should also hear what she said in context .
She clearly said that we should not discount all his voters as irredeemable
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)It was not a smart thing to say. Especially since a lot of people who might not have been inclined to support Trump had a loved one who did, and would have taken offense.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)as human beings. She took it much further.
Is it pretty much something I've said myself? You bet. But there's a lot of stuff I say that Presidents shouldn't.
I have relatives who are Trumpers. Racist, nutty ignoramuses? Yes. Irredeemable? No.
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)The solid South (solidly white because African Americans were kept from voting in the old Confederate states).was solidly Democratic. Then the Civil Rights Act was passed and Nixon started the Southern Strategy to make the Republican Party attractive to racist creeps. Paul Weyrich brought in the bigoted right wing Xtian preachers to convince their flocks that Jaysuz loved bigotry in the name of the Laaawrd. Fifty years later and VOILA!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)LexVegas
(6,067 posts)louis c
(8,652 posts)The Democratic party never left those white, blue collar bigots. We threw them the fuck out.