In this election there was no ambiguity where trump stood or what the republican agenda was

[still_one]

The issues were NEVER more clear.

Everyone knew the Supreme Court was at stake. Everyone knew the candidates position on civil rights, women's rights, the environment, etc.

There WASN'T A GREY ZONE.

Those such as Jill Stein or any self-identified progressive who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election ARE RESPONSIBLE for trump, and they deserve FULL credit for this bullshit. It is in the numbers.

In Michigan Hillary lost by .3%. Jill Stein received 1.1% of the vote.

Wisconsin, and other critical states a similar result.

Let that just sink in.

You can talk all you want about 2018 or 2020, but the facts are the results of this election represent a generational event, and those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary have just F**KED it for a hell of a lot of people, for a hell of a long time.

[sfwriter]

1. A hell of a lot more Obama voters...

...crossed the party line in Michigan.

We got bit hard by rustbelt desperation.

How do we win these people back?

-SFWRITER

[still_one]

4. NO! Their actions elected trump period. The damage that will be done in the next four years will

take decades to undo. This was a generational event.

I don't care who they voted for in the past, or if they voted for Chauncey Gardiner, (being there)

[lapfog_1]

27. "Growth will return in the Spring"... n/t

[GummyBearz]

32. Isn't that ironic

"sfwriter (1,629 posts)
1. A hell of a lot more Obama voters...

...crossed the party line in Michigan.

We got bit hard by rustbelt desperation.

How do we win these people back?

-SFWRITER"

--------------

"still_one
4. NO! ..."

--------------

Well... if you don't want them back I guess we will be losing MI, OH, WI from now on

[NanceGreggs]

5. Good question.

How do you convince stupid people that someone like Trump - who outsources his own brand products, and stiffs business people out of their hard-earned money - isn't on their side?

How do you convince stupid people that a man - who is a proven liar, and has NEVER done anything for anyone other than himself - didn't suddenly become a champion of the "little guy"?

How do you convince stupid people that a man - who talks about grabbing pussies, and who refers to his own daughter as a "piece of ass" - is NOT a moral, upstanding man who was "chosen by God" to lead the nation?

Shouldn't at LEAST that much have been obvious to anyone with a functioning brain?

I can empathize with "rust belt desperation". But I can't feel too much sympathy for people who figured that jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire was going to get them anything but burned.

[jack_krass]

15. Start by not calling the people whos votes you need "stupid" (nt)

[NanceGreggs]

16. What else do you call them?

Stupid is as stupid votes. Anyone who looked at Trump's behaviour and said, "THIS guy will make a great president" really can't be described any other way.

[jack_krass]

42. Enigmatic. Voting is about a compromise between choice

A and choice B. Balancing the good and the bad. Id like to keep an open mind and try to understand why people voted the way they did rather than mindlessly condemning them as racist bigots or Nazis.

For example, did you ever stop and think that maybe , just maybe it's our candidate who was the problem not the voters?

[NanceGreggs]

43. No, I dont think our candidate was the problem.

You’ve said ”Voting is a compromise between choice A and choice B, balancing the good and the bad”, and I agree wholeheartedly.

On that basis, our candidate was superior to Trump by every metric. She is more experienced in gov’t, as well as other areas; she practiced law, served as a senator and then SoS, and is active in the Clinton Foundation. She has forged important relationships among a vast group of knowledgeable and influential people, and it respected and admired at home and around the world.

Her grasp of both domestic and foreign policy is wide-ranging, and her ability to retain information and apply it is remarkable. She has weathered thirty years of non-stop attack from the right, and has come through it with grace and style; she never loses her “cool” in even the most trying circumstances.

Throughout her campaign, she was able to answer any question directly, and was able to provide details as to any of her policies and/or proposals. She is an excellent speaker, and laid out her vision for building on the foundation put in place by Obama and other Dem predecessors, as well introducing new ideas – all geared towards improving the lives of all Americans in the areas of tax relief, social safety nets, education and healthcare.

Trump, on the other hand, has no experience in gov’t, nor any experience in anything other than being a born-wealthy real estate wheeler-and-dealer. He has no “friends” to speak of, and his only acquaintances are fellow billionaires, or people who can DO something for him, rather than people he has ever done anything FOR.

Throughout his campaign, he has demonstrated a truly astounding LACK of knowledge about how gov’t operates, along with his complete ignorance of foreign affairs. He made pie-in-the-sky promises – and when asked for details about how he would accomplish the things he promised, he had no answers, other than his pat “I’ll fix everything and it will be great, believe me” bullshit.

As Trump amply displayed time and again, he is an immature bully who demeans everyone who doesn’t agree with him, or refuses to adore him. He is immature, thin-skinned, and has a hair-trigger temper – in other words, the last person you want in charge in a disaster.

In addition, rather than being admired and/or respected, he is viewed by the global community as a buffoon who is mocked as a loud-mouthed, know-nothing braggart, whose only interest in life has been a self-serving pursuit of his own wealth. His sense of morality and ethics is legendarily appalling, both personally and in his business dealings.

While Hillary’s platform was aimed at giving the hard-working middle-class a leg-up, Trump’s platform has been aimed at assisting the wealthy via tax breaks – a regurgitation of the “trickle-down theory” that has been proven a complete failure.

I could go on from here – but I think you get the picture.

So in what universe was our candidate the “wrong” candidate as compared to Trump? What kind of voters had the choice between A and B, and decided that the pussy-grabbing, woman-hating misogynist who mocked the disabled, called our vets and prisoners-of-war “weak”, displayed his hatred for minorities and immigrants at every opportunity, and demonstrated his abject stupidity on a daily basis would be a great president?

Who weighed “the good and the bad” as between these two candidates, and decided that Trump was the good candidate, while HRC was the bad candidate – and based on what?

Sorry, but I’m just not getting it. Sadly, those who voted for Trump are about to “get it”, and they’ll be getting it up the ass for the next four years.

[DFW]

26. I'm trying to think of another more appropriate term

What do you call someone who claims to be progressive, but voted in such a manner as to ensure that the next one or two Supreme Court Justices, who will decide over critical questions of our rights as citizens and humans, will be clones of Antonin Scalia instead of Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

I guess one could always call it "self-destructive," but then, self-destructiveness is usually stupid, so we're back to square one.

[Cosmocat]

28. That is the point

EVERYONE knows full well what Trump is, and what rs will do ifor they get power.

The obvious answer is what repulsed us about them is what A LOT of people like about them.

I use "stupid" loosely as a general qualifier.

But, most of them aren't stupid.

They just are willing to roll the dice on their economic well being for those who acknowledge and take their "side" in regard to their revolution over guys having sex with guys, women having sex with guys other than them, "those people" etc.

They vote culture EVERY time.

[gollygee]

35. I'm skeptical of this

I think a lot of people who haven't voted before came out and voted for Trump because they identified with his racism. People I know who live in rural (and more racist) areas of Michigan talked about how huge the lines were and how far they had to walk to get to their polling places. They say that while in line, people were talking about how they'd never voted for President before, but how much they loved Trump.

And I think that a lot of people who voted for Obama didn't come out to vote because they were not excited to vote for Hillary.

The overall numbers shifted, but I don't think it's generally the same people. I know one person who voted for Obama and voted for Trump, so I know it happened at least a bit, but I am skeptical about this claim that it was a lot of people.

I don't think there's an issue about losing voters. I do think there's an issue of a new voting block of people who haven't voted in the past but who will vote Republican every single time, if they continue to vote. I also think we have to choose candidates who excite Democrats more so we get more people on our side out to vote. But nobody the Democrats could have chosen would have gotten the votes of rural Michigan Trump voters. I know these people. They aren't voting for any Democratic candidate for anything. In rural parts of Michigan, local elections are decided in the Republican primary, because there aren't any Democrats to run. That's part of why people in rural parts of Michigan aren't that interested in the general election. There are no local elections decided at general elections.

[NanceGreggs]

2. Exactly.

If you voted for anyone other than HRC, you elected Trump. It's as simple as that.

Also, there is no missing the fact that the anyone-but-Hillary crowd (e.g. the JPR contingent) glommed onto RW talking points, praised RWers and quoted their bullshit 24/7. And yet we're supposed to believe that they are the leftier-than-thou.

It didn't take long for them to start acting just like Republicans - and, as they say, if it walks like a duck and squawks like a duck, it IS a duck - and has been all along.

[Yavin4]

19. Or didn't vote at all.

You also helped to elect Trump.

[NanceGreggs]

20. Exactly. n/t

[etherealtruth]

3. K&R

[sheshe2]

6. Yes.

Thank you still one.

[Wellstone ruled]

7. Spent the best part of the last three weeks

door knocking and phone banking. Honestly,it was the Economy folks. And Comey doing his little stunt which cost us about 3-4%fewer votes. So many folks just threw up their hands and said screw it,what have we got to lose,we lost every thing already and stayed home.

[oberliner]

8. The economy is doing very well

The US is basically at full employment.

[Wellstone ruled]

13. Kind of miss leading stats.

All depends on where you live. Called into the Ohio Valley several days,people are struggling,only finding part time work,and some working two jobs at minimum wage. I read the stats every day,we as Dems forgot millions who were left behind.

[oberliner]

23. Hillary spent a lot of time and money in Ohio and Pennsylvania

Last edited Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:20 AM - Edit history (1)

She certainly did not forget the people who were struggling there. She just didn't promise them the moon and tell them lies about steel and coal like Trump did. Also she didn't give them a scapegoat to blame their problems on.

[Wellstone ruled]

25. We did not offer any

workable solutions. And there are workable solutions which means spending tax dollars for training and skill updating. Nothing wrong with make work projects.

[oberliner]

30. Workforce skills and job training

Every American should be able to learn the skills they need to compete and succeed.

Americans need to be able to get ahead and stay ahead—that means putting the next generation of well-paying jobs within reach for everyone who is willing to work hard. Hillary Clinton believes that every American—especially young people—should be able to learn the skills they need to get hired, seize new opportunities at work, get promoted, and contribute in a 21st-century workforce.

Hillary’s workforce and skills agenda will help people get good jobs with good wages throughout their careers:

For workers and job-seekers, this means providing more robust, coherent, and accessible training programs and resources that are up to date for 21st-century technology and that lead to good jobs and lifelong skills and credentials.

For training providers, Hillary will ensure that good programs that provide high-quality training, including at community colleges, are given the support they need to scale up and respond to the needs of the local workforce and employers—while insisting on accountability, transparency, and results.

For government, Hillary will make sure federal, state, and local workforce development resources are used to bring together workers, unions, employers, and training providers at every level, in order to prepare workers for good jobs.

For employers, this plan encourages businesses to invest in their workers for the long term through training, apprenticeships, and creating good jobs.

As part of this agenda, Hillary is calling for a tax credit for businesses that hire apprentices, providing much needed on-the-job training—especially for young Americans.

Her plan would put forward a tax credit for businesses of $1,500 per apprentice and would insist on accountability for employment and earnings outcomes for programs receiving the credit. Hillary’s plan will also grant a bonus on that tax credit to businesses for providing opportunities specifically for young people.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/workforce-and-skills/

[TDBroke]

14. I teach economics

This isn't totally true. Our labor participation rate is really low. It basically means people have stopped looking for jobs. I think this is the frustration of the rust belt voter. We need to figure out a way to get them to feel like they haven't been screwed over for years. Because apparently they do.

[Calculating]

22. This

Near full employment doesn't mean anything when half of the jobs are either part-time or minimum wage crap jobs. Good jobs with benefits are what people need.

[TDBroke]

29. We can blame everybody

We can blame Stein's voters, we can blame Russians, we can blame Bernie's voters. We can blame everybody but ourselves for not winning this election. But we need to take a hard look at ourselves and our policies that allowed unemployment to get to this level. Sure on paper it looks like everything is fine. But seeing how people voted across this country it tells me that not all is right. We've alienated voters and looked the other way when they told us that they were hurting. We turned away from those who needed us the most. We've allowed the affordable care act to push employers to part time hiring instead of full 40 hour jobs with benefits. We need to fix this and fix it fast or it's going to be a long 4 years. This should have been a slam dunk easy election but it wasn't. So much that we outright lost. I'll get called a troll for this but sometimes we need to face the facts and work from within to fix the issues that are causing our neighbors grief. Sure we can focus on who pees where and who marries who but at the end of the day that doesn't matter to a large portion of the country. Let's right the ship. I'm a realist.

[Kingofalldems]

38. Unemployment is very low right now.

What the hell are you talking about?

[TDBroke]

40. You didn't read

my post at all did you? I don't even know why I try. The unemployment numbers are severely misleading from an economic standpoint.

[Kingofalldems]

41. Sure did. Try again.

[Kilgore]

33. On what planet?

Our labor participation rate is in the tank.

[Cosmocat]

36. No, it wasn't

it was 100 percent cultural.

People can try or want to conflate it to being about "the economy" but end of the day the people who voted trump voted for someone who spent 1 1/2 years telling them he was going to bring jobs back to america while wearing hats he had made in China.

They voted FOR Trump for the same reasons we are revolsed by him. He is a mean spririted, selfish bully. We hate that, they love that.

Further, they voted cultural downticket. Because Rs are out and out about what they want to do - no minimum wage, privatize health care and social security. The three main things to ANY of our economic security, particularly the blue collar working class, and they voted for the people who are out and out saying they are ready to do the most extreme things to jeopardize them.

WHY - because they are openly hostile to guys who have sex with other guys, blacks, mexicans and other minorities and knock the same "liberal elitests" that they hate so much.

It was 100 percent cultural, as it has been the last 3 decades. They are willing to jeopardize THEIR financial well being because team R is going to take away the handouts to "them" as in those of color or those who live in cities. They vote R even though they are itching to do tax reform that will give massive breaks to the ultra rich and have some scheme in place to double back on everyone else because them there Rs will say they get to keep their guns that no one really wants to take in the first place.

it is 100 percent cultural, has been as long as I have been alive.

[David__77]

9. Clinton lost and was responsible for losing.

She was, in fact, the candidate. And she failed to win the game of winning the election. Certainly, many tens of millions of people eligible to vote either didn't vote or voted for candidates other than Clinton. I validate that those eligible voters bear responsibility for their own actions. I also think that Clinton was responsible for losing.

[still_one]

11. No. The self-identifed progressives WHO REFUSED to vote for Hillary, voted for trump by their

actions. The differences between the candidates WERE NEVER MORE CLEAR

Everyone knew the Supreme Court was at stake. Everyone knew trump was a racist and a sexist

Those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary did so because they don't give a damn about the Supreme Court, Civil Rights, women's rights, Environmental rights, etc.

Their actions also screwed over Russ Feingold and Zypher Teachout.

That every establishment swing state republican incumbent running for Senate won speaks volumes.

[David__77]

12. And, still, Clinton was responsible for losing.

I don't know the personal political identities of those who didn't vote for Clinton. I understand that all eligible voters made their choice and contributed to the final tally.

[NanceGreggs]

17. Ag, yes, Hillary is solely responsible.

I can just imagine the Bernie folks, had he been the nominee and lost (which he would have) saying it was all HIS fault.

[David__77]

18. Sanders lost too.

He was responsible for losing the primary.

[NanceGreggs]

21. Well, there is a large contingent of people ...

... who insist that he only lost the primary because it was "stolen" from him. And they have their own websites, and they patted themselves on the back for voting for anyone-but-Hillary in retribution for how badly Bernie was treated.

[andym]

10. Voters are responsible for Trump. End of story.

Who cares who else is running. There are always third parties, and people who will support them for various reasons. For example, many Stein voters are anti-establishment and would never vote for the Democratic Party candidate.

[Cosmocat]

34. YEP!

nm

[betsuni]

24. K&R

[mcar]

31. K&R

[yallerdawg]

37. You can tell who they are, too.

The ones who continue with the same BS we have heard for the last two years.

I expect this is what we will hear for "Four more years."

[astral]

39. People wanted a BIG CHANGE.

Hillary was just not being clear about how things were going to be any different with her. Better Together, better with a woman, free college education for all.

I didn't hear much from her for long periods of time, and during the debates, she was all about talking about Trump.

We had alot of people unhappy to choose from either candidate, and voted based on what they heard the candidates say. I think she could have pushed her own agenda more firmly and more coherently and won over alot of lukewarm voters who didn't care about voting along party lines.

I am not sure getting rid of the electoral college is a good idea, if it means a few states decide everything. The system's kinda broken either way you look at it, and maybe the process should be changed, but after slow careful analysis as to exactly how.