Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 03:54 PM Jun 2013

I doubt the motives of whoever leaked this "spying" info.

Much of which turns out to be inaccurate and exaggerated.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this is happening in the midst of a perfect storm of other accusations against Obama, at the beginning of his second term -- accusations that all began with a fury and ended with a whimper.

There are Bush holdovers throughout the administration, any of whom could have been motivated to leak this now. They know these policies have been in place since the Bush administration, and that most Republicans don't have a problem with them. What they want to do is attack Obama through his base. And so far, a lot of the base is cooperating.

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
3. Details in the stories are regularly omitted and frequently, the talking heads use
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 04:53 PM
Jun 2013

the wrong words in a manner in which they can latter claim they were "imprecise".

For instance, I keep hearing people refer to "wire tapping" which is not what's being done. But by using that word, they can easily (a) generate outrage, and (b) later claim to have unintentionally used that specific term.

Most of the comparisons with the program under the Bush administration do the same thing. The addition of FISA warrants and congressional oversight are glossed over, or are totally omitted.

LiberalFighter

(50,950 posts)
5. They are trying to use hot button words to agitate.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 08:30 PM
Jun 2013

There needs to be agitation against those that push the news. Some that I have a problem with are pompous Brian Williams, slow minded Andrea Mitchell, and stuffy Scott Pelley. I can't say anything about the Fox crap cause I don't watch them at all. But those 3 because they show up on stations that I do watch.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
7. Denial
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:13 PM
Jun 2013

I think you guys are in what's called the denial phase. I just looked at another thread where they posted that this was just a hoax even though the National Security Director has already admitted it's true.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
8. The National Security Director strongly disputed some of the claims being made
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:16 PM
Jun 2013

and the document that the WA Post has published doesn't match the one the Guardian has.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
9. You do have to wonder
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:37 PM
Jun 2013

I mean it's far fetched, but it could be someone is trying to piss off the liberal democrats by putting out false information. The Republicans have been itching to impeach Obama. They have (or will have 45) in the Senate once Christie names a replacement for Senator Lautenberg. Whether they are true or not, the Republicans have piled the word "scandal" on so many things. If they could get 22 Senators to vote for a conviction, then Biden would be president. Biden would have a few years in office and would have to decided whether to run in 2016. The whole thing could weaken the Democrats chance of holding the Presidency for a third term, which is exactly what the Republicans want.

Edit: I don't think things are to that point yet and with both the House and the Senate coming up on their Summer recess it would be unlikely they could act that quickly.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
10. And consider the timing, with this coming on the heels
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 09:53 PM
Jun 2013

of the three other "scandals" that all fell apart on closer examination.

If this "leaker" is so concerned, why did he wait till now to leak? This program has been going on since the Bush administration.

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
12. Well, SOMEBODY is trying to make it about identity politics.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:44 PM
Jun 2013

Actually, several SOMEBODIES, by scanning the front page. But we know the Truth. Finally.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
13. From March, 2008.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 12:12 AM
Jun 2013
http://www.themediaconsortium.com/reporting/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/affidavit-bp-final.pdf

My name is Babak Pasdar, President and CEO of Bat Blue Corporation. I have given this affidavit to
Thomas Devine, who has identified himself as the legal director of the Government Accountability
Project, without any threats, inducements or coercion.

I have been a technologist in the computer and computer security industry for the past nineteen years
and am a "Certified Ethical Hacker" (E-Commerce Consultants International Council.) I have worked
with many enterprise organizations, telecommunications carriers, as well as small and medium sized
organizations in consulting, designing, implementing, troubleshooting, and managing security systems.
This statement is to make a record ofmy concerns about the privacy implications for our society from
what I personally witnessed at a major telecommunications carrier, as summarized below.

What I know:

• I know I saw a circuit that everyone called the "Quantico Circuit."

• I know that all other sites had store numbers or affiliate numbers. The "Quantico Circuit" was
the only site being migrated that had such a unique name.

• I know that it was a third party connecting to the client's network via the "Quantico Circuit."

• I know everyone was uncomfortable talking about it.

• I know that connecting a third party to your network core with no access control is against all
standard security protocols, and would fail almost any compliance standard.

• 1 know that I was a trusted resource. During the project, I at all times had access and control
over the communications to the most sensitive of the organization's systems. This included
their sales applications, billing systems, text messaging and mobile internet access, including email
and web. I even had a client badge for entry to the building and access to facilities.

• I know the client had Network VCRs situated at various locations throughout their data centers.
These devices collected and recorded all network communications and had the capacity to store
them for days, possibly weeks.

• I know that many of the organization's branch offices and affiliate systems did not have that
unfettered access, because I instituted the controls.

What is likely, based on normal industry practice:

• A third party had access to one or more systems within the organization.

• The third party could connect to one or more of the client's systems. This would include the
billing system, fraud detection system, text messaging, web applications. Moreover, Internet
communications between a mobile phone and other Internet systems may be accessed.

• The client could connect to one or more of the third party's systems.

• The client's Data and Cell networks are interconnected.

• It is unlikely that any logging was enabled for any access to the Quantico circuit, because the
client's technical experts suggested that this was not enabled. They were tentative in even
discussing the subject. Even if logging was enabled the logging system was so inappropriately
sized that it was useless.

What is possible due to consistency with known facts but for which I don't have proof:

• The third party may be able to access the billing system to find information on a particular
person. This information may include their billing address, phone number(s), as well as the
numbers and information of other people on their plan. Other information could also include
any previous numbers that the person or others on their plan called, and the outside numbers
who have called the people on the plan.

• The third party may be able to identify the Electronic Security Number (ESN) of the plan
member's phones. This is a unique identifier that distinguishes each mobile device on the
carrier's network.

• With the ESN information and access to the fraud detection systems, a third party can locate or
track any particular mobile device. The person's call patterns and location can be trended and
analyzed.

• With the ESN, the third party could tap into any and all data being transmitted from any
particular mobile device. This would include Internet usage, e-mails, web, file transfers, text
messages and access to any remote applications.

• It also would be possible in real-time to tap into any conversation on any mobile phone
supported by the carrier at any point.

• It would be possible for the third party to access the Network VCR devices and collect a variety
of information en masse. The Network VCR collects all communications between two systems
indiscriminately. It would then archive this information making it available for retrieval on demand.
The third party could access the Network VCR systems and collect all data
communications for single mobile device such as text messaging, Internet access, e-mail, web
access, etc. over some period of minutes, hours, days or weeks. The same can be done for
communications of multiple, many or even all mobile devices for some period of minutes,
hours, days or weeks.

• Even if the client did not provide specific login and access for the third party to one or more of
their systems, without any access controls it is possible for the third party to leverage
vulnerabilities to "compromise" the client systems and obtain control or collect sensitive
information.

...

From Jan. 21, 2009

Russell Tice Confirms Everything We’ve Surmised About Bush’s Illegal Wiretap Program
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/01/21/russell-tice-confirms-everything-weve-surmised-about-bushs-illegal-wiretap-program/

First, Tice’s description of the program confirms everything we have surmised about the program. The program:

Established the means to collect all American communications
Analyzed meta-data to select a smaller subset of communications to tap further
Conducted human analysis of those messages
That is, the Bush administration used meta-data (things like length of phone call that have nothing to do with terrorism) to pick which communications to actually open and read, and then they opened and read them.

~snip~

Tice figured out that they were getting journalists’ communications when he realized that they were separating out all the journalists’ communications–but then ensuring that those communications were still collected 24/7.

~snip~

Tice also explained how BushCo evaded oversight by claiming some of this program was an intelligence program, and some was a military program. (Presumably, though, my smart Senator Carl Levin might notice something like that…) That strategy seems remarkably similar to the means by which BushCo legally justify the PAA (and presumably the program operating without Congressional sanction before it)–by using hybrid means of approving the program so as to eviscerate the Fouth Amendment. Nothing was too cute for these folks in their efforts to gut the Constitution, I guess.

...

You're gullible and delusional, and your hero's a fraud.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
15. Yes, grotesquely exaggerated, as usual.
Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:33 AM
Jun 2013

For example here's "constitutional lawyer" Glenn CATO Greenwald on Friday's Democracy Now, the Rush Limbaugh show of the fake left:


AMY GOODMAN: Glenn Greenwald, on Thursday, Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein told reporters in the Senate gallery that the government’s top-secret court order to obtain phone records on millions of Americans is, quote, "lawful."

(snip)

GLENN GREENWALD: Well, first of all, the fact that something is lawful doesn’t mean that it isn’t dangerous or tyrannical or wrong. You can enact laws that endorse tyrannical behavior. And there’s no question, if you look at what the government has done, from the PATRIOT Act, the Protect America Act, the Military Commissions Act and the FISA Amendments Act, that’s exactly what the war on terror has been about.

But I would just defer to two senators who are her colleagues, who are named Ron Wyden and Mark Udall. They have—are good Democrats. They have spent two years now running around trying to get people to listen to them as they’ve been saying, "Look, what the Obama administration is doing in interpreting the PATRIOT Act is so radical and so distorted and warped that Americans will be stunned to learn" — that’s their words — "what is being done in the name of these legal theories, these secret legal theories, in terms of the powers the Obama administration has claimed for itself in how it can spy on Americans."

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/7/a_massive_surveillance_state_glenn_greenwald


Their words, right. But the gallery proudly proclaims every meme, wild exaggeration or no, two or three times an hour: "It's tyrannical!" "Wyden and Udall are outraged!" "Obama is secretly wiretapping everbody!" like a bunch of ninnies on Jerry Springer. Then when ProSense explains why yet another scandal is a pile of stale menudo they refuse to believe it and accuse her of cheerleading.
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»I doubt the motives of wh...