Need help: how to deal with this talking point?

[Mika]

Online discussion ... My point was ...

So, you think that a law, fully negotiated and passed, marked-up, passed by both houses, signed into law, and validated by the SCOTUS should be renegotiated because a stark minority of the GOP (they do have the votes for a clean CR, but Boehner won't call a vote) demand that a passed law be eviscerated and redone?

The talking point response is usually something like this ...

Really? FULLY NEGOTIATED? 2 days to read this 2500+ page monstrosity and passed in the dead of night before the Christmas holiday

Can any DUers help me w/ this? Thanks

[louis-t]

1. Teabagger talking point on this has always been

"he rammed it through in the middle of the night, he's a dictator, there was no vote", etc. It didn't have to be negotiated, there were enough votes for it to pass. Repugs will always play the victim.

[Mika]

2. I know. How do I demonstrate your point?

Have searched DU, but found nothing concise to rebut the BS.

[louis-t]

14. Repugs will also say "Dems had 2 YEARS..."

because they had 'the majority' which they didn't. Coleman kept challenging the election results to delay Al Franken from being sworn in until July. Ted Kennedy got sick in April and died in August. Start doing Google searches, you should be able to come up with lots....sorry, not much time today or I'd help.

[daleanime]

3. And this happen yesterday?

So how many staffers does the average congressman have?
If you still don't understand it, how do you know you don't like it.
Your right, Democrats shouldn't steal Republican ideas.
You mean you still haven't looked at it.
When your invited, but don't show-up. Don't complain when the party goes on with out you.

[elleng]

4. This should help, REALLY!

Shutdown Delision (by Joan Walsh)

They ignore a year of hearings and desperate bargaining on Obamacare. Plus: The worst shutdown punditry ever

In fact, the ACA was the result of more than a year of congressional committee hearings in which progressive ideas like single payer or a public option were jettisoned, and hundreds of GOP amendments to the law were accepted, in exchange for zero Republican votes. Sen. Max Baucus, in particular, drove an eight-month bipartisan process via the Senate Finance Committee in which he and ranking Republican Chuck Grassley held dozens of hearings, released joint “policy option” papers and finally presided over 31 meetings lasting 60 hours with the so-called “Gang of Six” – Baucus and Grassley plus Kent Conrad, D-N.D., Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., and Mike Enzi, R-Wyo. — to try to hammer out a compromise that would attract GOP support.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/07/gops_latest_shutdown_delusion_obama_didn%E2%80%99t_negotiate_health_care_law/

[Narraback]

5. Yes negotiated - here is info on Senate Committee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

After his inauguration, Obama announced to a joint session of Congress in February 2009 his intent to work with Congress to construct a plan for healthcare reform.[69][70] By July, a series of bills were approved by committees within the House of Representatives.[71] On the Senate side, from June to September, the Senate Finance Committee held a series of 31 meetings to develop a healthcare reform bill. This group—in particular, Democrats Max Baucus, Jeff Bingaman, and Kent Conrad, and Republicans Mike Enzi, Chuck Grassley, and Olympia Snowe—met for more than 60 hours, and the principles that they discussed, in conjunction with the other committees, became the foundation of the Senate's healthcare reform bill.[72][73][74]

[BlueState]

6. Here is a nice timeline

http://www.finance.senate.gov/issue/?id=32be19bd-491e-4192-812f-f65215c1ba65

According to this website the house passed this on March 21, 2010. Was Christmas in March that year?

But clearly this timeline illustrates what posters are saying above. The passage of the ACA was a long process with many, many opportunities for Congress and the Senate to understand and contribute.

[JHB]

15. At the time there were 178 Republican House members

All of them voted, and voted "no", in a roll-call vote at 10:49 PM
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll165.xml

On March 21, 2010, the House took up H.R. 3590, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, as passed by the U.S. Senate. The House passed H.R. 3590 by a roll call vote of 219 - 212, clearing the measure for the White House. On March 23, 2010, H.R. 3590 was signed into law by the President and became Public Law 111-148.

http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?q=bill/hr-3590-the-patient-protection-and-affordable-care-act

It wasn't exactly something slipped in and passed on the QT.

[truebluegreen]

7. Ridiculous.

President Obama called health reform a major priority and work on it started in Feb. '09, days after he was inaugurated (the first time).

Congress worked for months. The House passed a series of bills; the Senate Gang of 6 (subset of the finance committee) had multiple meetings from June to Sept to develop it's own bill. They adopted MANY Republican ideas in hopes of Republican votes--could have bypassed this step because they got ZERO. Finally ended debate on 12/23 (voted for cloture) and passed the bill the next day. Then the House had to pass the same bill and President Obama signed it 3/23/2010.

Your Facebook correspondent seems unaware of several things:

1) the reason the bill (and anything similar) is so long is that every relevant law has to be amended, and every possible consequence addressed;
2) the middle-of-the-night thing? That was Booosch and the Republican congress re Medicare Part D (which our fiscal conservatives decided not to pay for, unlike the ACA);
3) elections have consequences: if she hates the ACA so much, tell her to elect two houses of Congress and a President that will repeal it. Otherwise, sit down and STFU.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

8. The proof...

Name one major feature of the Affordable Care Act that's come to light since it was passed.

And no fair being an idiot who simply wasn't paying attention. For people who followed the process -- and I charitably include members of Congress in the group -- all major facets of the law were all well-known, well-documented, and agreed upon by a majority of both houses.

[dem in texas]

9. Too Late for buyer's remorse

It was approved in the democratic process, withstood a legal challenge, it is a done deal. If the repubs don't like it, they must use the democratic process to change it. They can't, they don't have the votes, and the way they have behaved lately, they will be losing more seats to the Democrats. I love it!

[Arkana]

10. There was a YEAR of meetings and negotiations. What does this guy think--that the bill was created

in 24 hours? Republicans wanted no part of those meetings. All they did was demand concessions, then announce they couldn't vote for the bill anyway.

The ACA took a year to create, and there were a SHITLOAD of meetings on the Hill. Tell him that.

If they wanted a shorter bill, they should have let us remove the "over 65" clause from Medicare. Problem solved, 2-page bill.

[unblock]

11. passed in the dead of night? -- yeah, snuck it right past an unsuspecting congress.

yeah, congress had absolutely no idea that obama was going to do anything regarding health insurance.
no hint, no warning, then suddenly BAM! congress turns around and goes "wuh happint?"

obama magically got a majority in both houses to vote for something without even realizing what they had done!

he totally bamboozled them!

deceptively naming it the "affordable care act", congress naturally assumed they were voting to impeach obama, but, surprise! it actually had something to do with affordable care! oh, those kenyan mind games!

[Mika]

12. Thank you, DUers. Keep 'em coming. I've bookmarked this debunking of a lie.

Many thanks, my fellow DUers.

[moriah]

13. The actual law isn't that huge.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/chapter-157

[Motown_Johnny]

16. It took almost 2 years to write those 2500+ pages and

Republicans were there adding amendments to it all the way through.

Yes, fully negotiated. The problem was that the (R)s did not negotiate in good faith. They are the ones who wanted the individual mandate, and now they are shutting down the government to try and get a one year delay of something that they wanted in the first place.

Screw them.