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RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
Sat Nov 16, 2013, 04:51 PM Nov 2013

"JUNK INSURANCE JUNK INSURANCE JUNK INSURANCE" Say it 1000 times.

Last edited Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:35 AM - Edit history (1)

I have been making some right winger heads explode by saying "JUNK INSURANCE" when they talk about the 2-3% losing plans in the individual market. I say "Yeah, they are losing their JUNK insurance with massive deductibles and that doesn't cover anything because the law says the INSURANCE COMPANIES can't just sell that JUNK insurance anymore. And you know as well as I do that it is pure JUNK."

Then of course they'll come back and say, "Well, who the hell are you to call it "JUNK"? If it is what they want and it works for them, they should have that choice."

Then I say, "I didn't call it JUNK. The insurance companies did by making sure it was JUNK. And of course people DO NOT 'WANT' THIS JUNK. They buy it because it is all they can AFFORD. Are you telling me that if a person needed a car and bought some piece of shit because it was all they could afford that would be their CHOICE??? Give me a fuckin' break ! They would at least buy a decent car, one that would not be a piece of JUNK that breaks down the moment you really need it. Maybe it doesn't need to be a new Cadillac, but a decent car should at least maybe be a Ford Focus or Chevy Cruise, not some piece of crap Yugo type JUNK. And a health plan shouldn't be a LEMON and piece of JUNK either. We have a "lemon law" with cars. Well, the ACA is the lemon law for JUNK insurance plans. They are a disgrace, and we need to scrap them and throw them on the junk heap. We can take some time with that as we transition. But in time, they need to be scrapped as the JUNK they are and meet some standards. And people are going to get BETTER PLANS THAT ARE NOT JUNK and the prices for them will come down as more and more people enter the market."

This works. They stand there gaping knowing they can't win. Dems and Progressives need to learn how
to MESSAGE.

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"JUNK INSURANCE JUNK INSURANCE JUNK INSURANCE" Say it 1000 times. (Original Post) RBInMaine Nov 2013 OP
I wish this administration could get the message across Live and Learn Nov 2013 #1
Well, ok, but so do RANK AND FILE PROGRESSIVES. And ALL Dems. Write letters to the editor. etc. RBInMaine Nov 2013 #2
Obama can't criticize the insurance companies. ACA depends on them. BlueStreak Nov 2013 #26
He has to be measured in what he says and how, but he can stress that ACA is the "lemon law" for RBInMaine Nov 2013 #29
Realistically, if the insurance companies revolt, this whole thing falls apart BlueStreak Nov 2013 #30
Which is why he met with insurance co. CEO's Friday. It's why he has been very measured in his RBInMaine Nov 2013 #32
I heard a good analogy on the Mark Thompson show BlueStreak Nov 2013 #33
Junk Ins --> no maternity coverage for men quadrature Nov 2013 #3
so you want the taxpayers to pay for your wife/daughters baby or your insurance? Sunlei Nov 2013 #4
I see... Lns.Lns Nov 2013 #16
no I understand that fetal health = healthy babies. Sunlei Nov 2013 #18
Sorry if I misunderstood... Lns.Lns Nov 2013 #23
Plans now include coverage for a few things you might not need to get EVERYONE COVERED. Listen, RBInMaine Nov 2013 #5
what you write is largely true quadrature Nov 2013 #7
how is that a 'whopper'? n/t NMDemDist2 Nov 2013 #9
I'd be very pleased to address that: RBInMaine Nov 2013 #12
If your employer switches Insurance companies and your doctor isn't in the new network... Thor_MN Nov 2013 #14
They will say it is Obama's fault Lns.Lns Nov 2013 #17
I know, right? Thor_MN Nov 2013 #21
Funny... love a good sense of humor Lns.Lns Nov 2013 #24
ask YOUR Doctor why he won't take your insurance? Sunlei Nov 2013 #19
K&R for more visibility. nt Mnemosyne Nov 2013 #6
Awesome! freshwest Nov 2013 #8
Amen. I looked these urls up in re another post and I was shocked and further infuriated, if that libdem4life Nov 2013 #10
"prices for them will come down as more and more people enter the market"... Faryn Balyncd Nov 2013 #11
A bit of good news... I think Lns.Lns Nov 2013 #20
Prices are ALREADY down, but I agree we need to make sure the market is properly regulated. RBInMaine Nov 2013 #13
The Junk Insurance plans need to be called "Republican Healthcare" Thor_MN Nov 2013 #15
Or how about "REPUBLI-CARE". RBInMaine Nov 2013 #28
I must say... I am very pleased Lns.Lns Nov 2013 #22
In a few weeks the corporate shit media will be into some other BS and this will all be history. RBInMaine Nov 2013 #25
Amen... Lns.Lns Nov 2013 #27
This whole thing has spun out of control with a VERY poor response from the White House jzodda Nov 2013 #31

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
1. I wish this administration could get the message across
Sat Nov 16, 2013, 05:04 PM
Nov 2013

as well as you just did. It really isn't very complicated. Nobody needs or really wants junk insurance.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
26. Obama can't criticize the insurance companies. ACA depends on them.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:30 PM
Nov 2013

ACA only works if they decide to play nice. And sending out 2 million cancellations, many of which weren't necessary, is not playing nice.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
29. He has to be measured in what he says and how, but he can stress that ACA is the "lemon law" for
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:05 PM
Nov 2013

weak insurance plans. But is is up to US in the grassroots to be the voice, set a message, and counter right wing spin. WE have an obligation too.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
30. Realistically, if the insurance companies revolt, this whole thing falls apart
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:23 PM
Nov 2013

He really can't take a chance at pissing them off now. He made his bed and now he has to lie in it.

We are in the last couple of weeks of a temporary phase. The media decided "the narrative" would be "the website is completely broken and everybody hates Obamacare". When the media latches onto a narrative you cannot change them. You just have to wait a couple of weeks and the mob will be off in another direction.

By December some of those media types will actually have to look at healthcare.gov, and will discover that it is actually working pretty well. They will find that about a million people will have enrolled for policies to start January 1. And the insurance companies will be down-playing the cancellations. December is a different situation.

They may not really start a new narrative in December because people want to do holiday stuff, but they won't be able to keep the current narrative. And by January, there will be way over a million ACA customers who are actually making appointments with their doctors and getting some long-term problems addressed. The momentum is ours at that point.

It is a question of biding time.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
32. Which is why he met with insurance co. CEO's Friday. It's why he has been very measured in his
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:12 PM
Nov 2013

comments. He has to walk a fine line. He can be clearer and a bit more assertive on some points, but he can't ATTACK them. You're right. However, we in the grassroots can shine some light and apply some pressure on them, and we can counter right wing spin from the grassroots. You are right that the shitty corporate media has their narrative and it is tough to fight back, but an effort can be made, and the counter-narrative as Bernie Sanders puts it so well is that these are already unstable JUNK plans that need to be fixed and we can also clarify the grandfather clause point and that insurance companies knowingly sold JUNK plans they KNEW wouldn't meet standards.

Also, it is fun to hammer back at right wingers at work, etc. on this when they call Obama a liar and all that crap. You can say things like, "Well, all the Democrats and Independents I've met understood what Obama meant and they understand what a grandfather clause is. Why are the Republicans so slow on the uptake? Do you need a block of instruction from me on what a grandfather clause is?"

It's fun.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
33. I heard a good analogy on the Mark Thompson show
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:23 PM
Nov 2013

I think it was on that show anyway. The caller said we should talk about these not as cancellations, but as PRODUCT RECALLS. The public understands that if there is a flaw in a car's brakes or other safety systems, it is proper for the Federal law to require a safety recall. This is exactly the same thing. Nothing against the "insurance" companies, but some of their products are too unsafe to be sold as insurance products, so this is a product recall.

The insurance companies certainly had the opportunity to fix those problems. If they had done that, they could keep selling those policies.

We grandfathered some of the policies. This is analogous to not requiring classic or antique cars to have air bags or all the modern lights and warnings.

People can understand this terminology.

Lns.Lns

(99 posts)
16. I see...
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:05 PM
Nov 2013

So you think in the short term. How about the long term perspective that healthy babies will cost the system less in the long run? How about preventative care instead of urgent care? Think maybe there might be some saving for the taxpayer there? I won't even get in to how women have so many other disadvantages in life in comparison to men, that now some men whine that a woman may get something for once that disadvantages them. Don't forget every man has a mother. Please get a clue.

I sometimes get really disappointed in people when they only think of now rather than later.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
18. no I understand that fetal health = healthy babies.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:16 PM
Nov 2013

The man complained how the ACA law has the same basic covered items for men & woman.

Lns.Lns

(99 posts)
23. Sorry if I misunderstood...
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 02:02 PM
Nov 2013

Health people = lower costs. Now if we can just get them to stop prescribing drugs for every little thing that ends up making people sicker!

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
5. Plans now include coverage for a few things you might not need to get EVERYONE COVERED. Listen,
Sat Nov 16, 2013, 05:18 PM
Nov 2013

I pay taxes for all kinds of things I don't use. Right now for Medicare and SS, but I am helping those who DO need it, and SOME of it will be there for me when I need it, but not as much as I will use. The next generation will pay for ME. I pay taxes for oil companies to search for oil when they already make billions and don't need it. I paid taxes for years for school kids before I had kids and will pay after mine are out. We all do this. Insurance is tantamount to a TAX because it is the system we have. We have to have it. By all pooling in as a group, as the new plans are designed, we get EVERYONE IN and EVERYONE covered which means a healthier society for ALL and LOWER COSTS for all over time and a more STABLE market.

Reform means BYE BYE SHITTY CRAPPY JUNK INSURANCE !! SEE YA !!

 

quadrature

(2,049 posts)
7. what you write is largely true
Sat Nov 16, 2013, 06:29 PM
Nov 2013

would you like to comment about
this other whopper?
.....................................
"If you like your doctor,
you can keep your doctor"

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
12. I'd be very pleased to address that:
Sat Nov 16, 2013, 11:09 PM
Nov 2013

Last edited Sun Nov 17, 2013, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Whopper? BULLSHIT. Please, we do not need to meme the knuckle-draggers on Freepland nor the vomit from the fat jowls of the drug addict Limbaugh.

So, if your doctor retires, moves, leaves the network, or dies, is that Obama's fault?

In his stump speech the President of the United States based comments on the FACT that for 95% of Americans there would be little or no disruption in their insurance programs including their primary caregivers. For the 5% in mostly PIECE OF SHIT PLANS that you seem to be disgustingly defending, PURE-BREAD SHIT with up to $20,000 deductibles, he was obviously saying that if those plans were not changed by the time the law was passed they would be GRANDFATHERED, and that was exactly the TRUTH. It is not his fault if the SHITTY INSURANCE COMPANIES changed the plans and lost grandfathered status and then also KNOWINGLY sold people shitty non-compliant plans AFTER the law was signed but before full implementation which caused people to be cancelled. For 95% of the insured public there has been little to no disruption with regard to plan or caregiver. My goodness, do you really want to parrot Limbaugh in this?

Yes, Obama in hindsight should have been more nuanced about that 5% in the SHITTY individual plans, and yes, the HealthCare.Gov site was a screwup. He has said so on both counts and is owning it. That doesn't mean there was intentional "lying" by any stretch of the imagination. That is just ABSURD. He is working overtime to fix the website and also just tweaked things with the explicit extension of the JUNK SHIT plans (even though the asshole insurance companies had the right to do that anyway as long as they did so before the end of the year).


Happy now?

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
14. If your employer switches Insurance companies and your doctor isn't in the new network...
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:22 PM
Nov 2013

What happens then?

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
21. I know, right?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:26 PM
Nov 2013

He just burned out another light bulb in my bathroom...
He left the gas tank empty...
He ate the last of the ice cream...
He blew all the leaves from my neighbor's tree into my back yard...
He hid my car keys...
He clogged up the kitchen sink with bacon grease...
He made the stop lights red all the way to work...
He left the Lego block that I stepped on in the hallway...
Rain, friggen OBAMA!!!

Faryn Balyncd

(5,125 posts)
11. "prices for them will come down as more and more people enter the market"...
Sat Nov 16, 2013, 07:45 PM
Nov 2013


...This statement is only true if the industry is competitive & non-monopolistic, with transparent pricing.

These essentials absolutely do not exist in current American medicine, and has been getting exponentially worse over the last 20-30 years.

The medical industry not only has opaque, discriminatory pricing, in which there is a fantasy "regular price" that is regularly 300-400% higher than the very profitable price charged to some insurance companies (and sometimes 600-700% higher), but it is often impossible for people to find out in advance whether or not a given service will be covered by insurance, or if they will later be held responsible, not to mention what the price they will be charged. (Frequently nobody the patient speaks to has any idea the answers to these questions, and often nobody in the hospital or other facility has that information.)

Individuals are often totally unable to "comparison shop" because of these realities.

When Republicans talk of patients making decisions to purchase healthcare like they do purchasing groceries, they ignore the realities that confront a healthcare "purchaser".

To use the analogy of a grocery store: It is as if one entered a grocery store, and instead of having the option to push your own cart and pick out items that have clearly marked prices, one instead was first ordered to sign a blanket authorization for a company representative to pick out what groceries you "need", along with a promise that you will be financially responsible for the charges incurred, after they are sent to your insurance company, but that you will not be told in advance whether or not your insurance company will in fact pay for the food, and you will not be told what price you will be charged for the food (which is not marked with prices), and if you are charged, you may be charged a price which may be up to 700% higher that others are charged (even though the lower price is also profitable). And if you try to find out these prices in advance are told they are proprietary trade secrets.

This discriminatory, opaque pricing structure within healthcare has been produced by the health insurance industry.

The health insurance industry IS the problem, not the solution.

They have created a wall of opacity and monopoly, which they use to maximize their profits.

Without a free, non-monopolistic market, transparent, non-discriminatory pricing, and an informed populace able to make informed purchases, the "invisible hand" of Adam Smith capitalism will not produce "prices coming down".











Lns.Lns

(99 posts)
20. A bit of good news... I think
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:24 PM
Nov 2013

Insurers are looking towards other things to make their money other than health care plans. Which is ultimately good news. If they move out, state single payers become more relevant... then national.

We just have to be patient and not panic over every little hick up or headline. Instant gratification can be your enemy. I think a good book for people who freak out too quickly is - "Thinking Fast and Slow". It could help with some perspective.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
15. The Junk Insurance plans need to be called "Republican Healthcare"
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:27 PM
Nov 2013

Plans that can drop you for no reason, or deny you for pre-existing condtions. Plans that can increase premiums as much as they want for absolutely no reason. Plans that can extract as much profit as desired from revenue. Plans that exclude hospitalization in the fine print. These are REPUBLICAN HEALTHCARE.

Lns.Lns

(99 posts)
22. I must say... I am very pleased
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:31 PM
Nov 2013

Reading this thread has given me hope from a couple others I read bemoaning how the Pres. credibility is on the line. If you really stand back and see where we have come... the things that have been accomplished in the face of incredible opposition... IMO, this is the first Pres. since LBJ that has advanced the DOMESTIC social contract. Whether it appears so or not right now, I think the International as well.

Kudos to all of you.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
25. In a few weeks the corporate shit media will be into some other BS and this will all be history.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 03:15 PM
Nov 2013

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
31. This whole thing has spun out of control with a VERY poor response from the White House
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:44 PM
Nov 2013

I mean first the website and now this?

Leaving aside the website issues for now how come this White House did NOT get in front of this years ago? Instead of telling people they could keep their plan state that Junk insurance would be cancelled at the end of 2013. The President should have come on with a address to the nation about this rollout a few weeks before these cancel letters would start going out and explain to the nation that JUNK insurance was MEANT to be cancelled so people could go on the exchange.

I don't want to hear anybody saying that they could not predict that these cancellations would take place. They have had years to get things right, including dealing with the insurance industry who has been involved with implementation at every step. In fact, these junk plans were meant to be cancelled all along.

Of course this goes hand in hand with the technical problems of the website which has prevented many from feeling comfortable enough to go online.

Very disappointed in how they have managed this, very very.

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