2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis time we need a DRAFT and a WAR SURTAX
Listening to the media and Senator Feinstein (close links to Israel) calling for a full blown military involvement in Iraq and Syria (boots on the grounds), one must ask what was the cost and what was the gain after ten years in Afghanistan and ten years in Iraq!
The cost for the two wars is $6 Trillion plus over 6,500 military deaths, over 150,000 wounded, over 100,000 Iraqis killed, thousands homeless plus $1 Trillion for heath care to those PTSD veterans who served four to five tours in both wars.
Actually, the invasion of Iraq (immoral, unnecessary and illegal based on lies) was not a declared war but a military action.
Afghanistan was a declared war when Bush demanded that the Taliban hand over Osama bin Laden and expel al-Qaeda. The Taliban requested that bin Laden leave the country, but declined to extradite him without evidence of his involvement in the 9/11 attacks. Bush refused to negotiate and launched Operation Enduring Freedom on 7 October 2001 with the United Kingdom.
The US involved itself in a cultural and civil war, losing all the bases it built in both countries and the billions lavishly spent on buying influence.
Now there is a growing cry in the media and by both Repugs and Dems to escalate the military involvement by the US in Iraq and Syria against ISIS, which would involved us again in a fundamentalist religious and civil war. And all for religion!
Frankly, the USA is a warmongering country with a large established military contractor base that needs to use the bullets, missiles and bombs in its inventory. It has been involved in a war, assassinations, coups, invasions, in every single year since our Declaration of Independence was signed in practically every country in the world.
So at age 75, I'm a guy who watched this country involve it self in wars every single year since I was born in 1939, just before WWII and I am frankly yawning about getting involved in this situation.
The only caveat I have is this:
The war must be paid for in CASH, not on the credit card as Bush did with Afghanistan and Iraq tacking $6 TRILLION to our national debt.
The military war must be fought by all types of our civilian population of young men, with a fairly administered DRAFT, without exemptions like Bush and Cheney received. No more use of the National Guard and Contractors like Black Water.
The war must be paid as it goes through a SURTAX on every citizen who voted for Bush and Cheney, since they are directly responsible for the current situation in Iraq. And an additional Surtax on every Household and every non-profit particularly churches.
Then I say go for it. Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran too!
Zwyziec, the pessimist.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Sounds fair to me
msongs
(67,420 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)promise every DUer on this board for the next week that you will go to your local Marine or Army recruiter and volunteer for as many tours in Iraq that you can get. Or else STFU!
That comes from a Vietnam war draftee.
zwyziec
(173 posts)Six years in the US Navy. And I protested every week for years in the sixties and seventies against that other immoral war that you served in. Were you drafted or did you go willingly, buying the government speak about bringing democracy to an illiterate, impoverished country and containing communism.? Have you noticed how the country of Vietnam ended up. It's communist and we're doing business with it.
You fail to see the point of this idea. If the hawks like McCain, et al, want to take this country into Iraq, again, they know that the people (you and me and countless others) will not tolerate a war where only the poor, felons, minorities are recruited and sent to die. By demanding a draft, our "leaders" will not be as willing to take the country to war. They saw what happened when draftees were bring brought home in body bags from Viet Nam.
And the idea of a Surtax is just as unappealing to everyone especially to those that could afford it!
We have to remember what General Smedley Butler famously said...."War is a Racket"
I am Peace. Period.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)The reason the Vietnam war lasted as long as it did was because of the draft.
None of us has the right to send a kid to fight and die in a war of convenience.
zwyziec
(173 posts)Draft.
There will never be another war with a draft. And maybe, just maybe, that means there will never be another war like Viet Nam and Iraq and Afghanistan and Korea and the Persian Gulf War and the Bosnian War and the Military Intervention in Libya and the ......
Start talking about a draft and the war hawks will fly away.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)They ended the draft in 1973. The war ended 2 years later when the cannon fodder ran out.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Since you have the cannon fodder you need.
gateley
(62,683 posts)we have so few "boots" to put on the "ground".
Is she the only one calling for this?
Chan790
(20,176 posts)On all of it.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Abouttime
(675 posts)Make the republicans pay for their foolishness, they should be taxed at a much higher rate.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Citizens reporting to disintegration chambers after being "hit" by computer simulated "bombs."
From the Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon."
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)combined with running the pols who order them out on a rail with extreme prejudice?
Maybe a ban on war profits, do it at cost or go to jail for 20 years and a trillion dollar fine? Don't have that? Whatever assets you and your shareholders have will do.
Joe Magarac
(297 posts)If there is another draft, I will help young people dodge it.