So How Hawkish Is Hillary Clinton?

[DonViejo]

Michael Tomasky

She’s not a neocon. She has a humility they lack. However, she could stand to show a little more humility toward Democratic primary voters.

Okay, everybody. Deep breath, back to equilibrium. Yes, Hillary Clinton talked some smack on Barack Obama to Jeff Goldberg in that interview. But beyond those three or four sentences—and when yanked out of their larger context, sentences like that always carry more shock value than they do in context—did she really say very much that set her dramatically apart from Barack Obama? How different, really, would a Clinton foreign policy be?

Despite Clinton’s very public efforts to make up with the president, the consensus verdict over these last three hyperventilating days is: dramatically different. Hillary’s a neocon! Robert Kagan, operatic Iraq war enthusiast, admires her. MoveOn, the grassroots liberal group, snarled at her like a tiger—specifically, one freshly on the prowl for a non-Clinton alternative for 2016: “Secretary Clinton…should think long and hard before embracing the same policies advocated by right-wing war hawks that got America into Iraq in the first place and helped set the stage for Iraq’s troubles today.”

Having read through the interview a few times now and talked to some folks about it, I’m less convinced that the differences—with two key exceptions—are that dramatic. But those exceptions are big ones, and they make me wonder not only about any future Clinton foreign policy priorities, but about her political judgment today.

The main, non-headline-making takeaway from the whole interview is that she wants a bigger American footprint in the world than Obama seems to. Okay, we’ve known that, but she spelled out what that means at some length. And she’s actually pretty nuanced about it. She does not mean, as people to her left reflexively seem to think she means, going bombs away. Money quote:

“I think we’ve learned about the limits of our power to spread freedom and democracy. That’s one of the big lessons out of Iraq. But we’ve also learned about the importance of our power, our influence, and our values appropriately deployed and explained. If you’re looking at what we could have done that would have been more effective, would have been more accepted by the Egyptians on the political front, what could we have done that would have been more effective in Libya, where they did their elections really well under incredibly difficult circumstances but they looked around and they had no levers to pull because they had these militias out there. My passion is, let’s do some after-action reviews, let’s learn these lessons, let’s figure out how we’re going to have different and better responses going forward.”

more
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/13/so-how-hawkish-is-hillary-clinton.html

[djean111]

1. Ah! Let the spin control begin! nt

[tularetom]

2. How fence straddle-y is Michael Tomasky?

He really wants to defend her, but he isn't sure she won't continue to step in it, so he tosses in the "two exceptions" stuff.

Not one of his better efforts.

[CJCRANE]

3. I had a hunch a couple of weeks ago

that she would run on a more interventionist stance based on a few things she said recently, how foreign policy issues were unfolding and how the MSM was moving into neocon mode.

I was going to post an OP about it but didn't in the end.

[Cosmocat]

14. She is the ultimate politician and a women

Those two things in mind, running to be Commander in Chief, the first woman POTUS, IMO, she has long taken a mindset of not wanting to let the right frame he as "weak" on defense/security.

That is why she screwed herself with his IWR vote. Just no way she could not, in her mind, support it without being eviscerated as being weak on terror and too soft to be the commander in chief.

I think her nature is pretty much in line with a more reasoned international approach, but politics drives her positions.

That said, IF elected President she would not be a "neocon" and start anything for no good reason, BUT WOULD be more prone to act with more force if something arose to avoid the negative blowback of being "weak."

[Thinkingabout]

4. The Middle East has been in turmoil for years and Iraq was a cork in keeping Iran and

Other countries under control. After the invasion the cork is not going to be put back. I am not sure how many years it will take to recover from Bush induced turmoil, we are still rebuilding. It will require someone very strong to lead.

[CJCRANE]

6. I wish the UN could be used as a real debating chamber

and a real force for good for the whole of the planet.

We are facing such huge issues that we all need to come together.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. That 4th sentence is rather incoherent....

" If you’re looking at what we could have done that would have been more effective,
would have been more accepted by the Egyptians on the political front,
what could we have done that would have been more effective in Libya,
where they did their elections really well under incredibly difficult circumstances
but they looked around and they had no levers to pull because they had these militias out there"

I have no idea what she was trying to say ...something about "what we could have done that would be more effective in Egypt and Libya"
and something about "no levers to pull because of militias"
but the 2 thoughts are not complete, there is no conclusion, one is left at the end of that ramble waiting for a point to be made.

It sorta sounds like, in teh entire paragraph, she is saying the US did not explain our values enough..

Political speak.....like cotton candy...no substance.

[CJCRANE]

8. She should have explained her values then and there

not wait for a mulligan to try again.

Politicians need to try to get things right first time and not use failures as political capital for a later date.

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. I would have been happy with a coherent complete sentence.

Word salad is not a train I vote for.

[radiclib]

11. Almost Palinesque, no?

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. sorta..but the words are too big for Palin. n/t

[PADemD]

7. Hillary Clinton on Foreign Policy - 69 Full Quotes

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Foreign_Policy.htm

Also

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[blkmusclmachine]

10. DINO

[anti partisan]

12. Let me think about the last time I cared about something Michael Tomasky said...

I really can't remember ever caring

Anyone who is trying to make Hillary look different from neocons now is showing their true colors. While she may not technically be one, choosing this time to try to make that point shows what side you are on, and what your agenda is, and it is not pretty.

[TheKentuckian]

15. Flailing nonsense and hair splitting.