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Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:20 PM Nov 2014

Democrats taking latinos for granted?

Last edited Sat Nov 8, 2014, 11:09 AM - Edit history (1)

I really think Democrats are taking latino's in the us for granted. They think latino's automatically vote democrat and it's not true. Granted democrats get the most latino's votes but it's not that far apart.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/06/us/hispanic-votes-republicans-midterm-gains.html

"Greg Abbott, the Republican who defeated an underdog campaign for governor by Wendy Davis, a Democrat, won 44 percent of the Hispanic vote, while Ms. Davis took 55 percent. In 2010, Gov. Rick Perry, also a Republican, won his race with 38 percent of Latinos."

Texas is a minority, majority state and is conservative. Just as is arizona. Granted Wendy davis got 44%, but abbott got 45% and that's only 5% away from half. Rick perry got almost 40%, that's a lot and not at all close to democrats having the vote sewn up.

"In Georgia, where a small but rapidly growing population of Hispanic citizens now represents 4 percent of voters, Gov. Nathan Deal, a Republican, was re-elected, winning 47 percent of Hispanic voters while his Democratic challenger received 53 percent. In the hard-fought Senate race in Georgia, David Perdue, a conservative Republican businessman, received 42 percent of the Latino votes while his Democratic opponent, Michelle Nunn, got 57 percent."

In georgia the vote was not as heavy for the democrats as one would think.

"In Kansas, Gov. Sam Brownback, a conservative Republican who had been under fire even from some in his own party for sharp tax cuts, received 47 percent of the Latino vote, while his Democratic challenger, Paul Davis, won 46 percent. The exit polls were conducted by Edison Research for the television networks and The Associated Press."

Take note, in Kansas Sam Brownback got the majority over the democrat.

Yes, a poll says 45% of latinos say immigration reform is the most important, but that would not make them vote for the people against it. It also means to 55% it is not.

The Democrats seem to think they have latino's in their pocket, it's not the case. There is also a notion that most latino's are for amnesty, I think that's probably true for the 45% above. I have lived in the US and know people there, by far most that went there legally oppose it. Many have family members waiting to get approved and consider this as them getting moved back.

People also think new immigrants to the US will automatically vote democrat. Most are the very poor, very religious people. They are very much against abortion and gay rights. I'm not saying this is good, that's just how it is. I think with the voting numbers the way they are a lot of the newer immigrants are on the conservative side.

People can, and will, ignore this but the amount voting conservative bears this out.

Just the opinions of someone that knows the pulse of these people.


This also points out a problem of the democrats in the us. Anyone trying to point out problems is considered an enemy and attacked. It's fact that 38% of the latinos in florida and the whole us vote conservative, but anyone pointing that out is the enemy. It's true that this 38% are people that democrats should have and it should be corrected, but anyone pointing that out is the enemy. It's also true that they are not the majority but again votes democrats should have. Pointing to past elections mean nothing, the past election is the only one that matters.....it and the next.

In reality those ignoring these problems are part of the problem and this means you also. Is there really any point in discussing this with someone that is part of the problem and closed minded? Do you still deny those 38% in florida and nation wide?

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Democrats taking latinos for granted? (Original Post) Guaguacoa Nov 2014 OP
Yes Skeowes28 Nov 2014 #1
Then they will have to live with the consequences. Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #2
Indeed apnu Nov 2014 #31
Yes! Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #34
Well.... They can sit out elections or vote for republicans onecaliberal Nov 2014 #3
See what I mean? Don't try to figure out the problem, just expect the vote. Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #4
Can't say I disagree about anything you said bigwillq Nov 2014 #5
If they want to vote for people who hate them onecaliberal Nov 2014 #15
I posted somewhere here that I, and the wife, saw far less Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author onecaliberal Nov 2014 #22
Great job!!!! yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #26
Thank You. Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #27
^^^ This. apnu Nov 2014 #32
Democrats absolutely need to get this.nt Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #36
Question/clarification about something you said: LeftInTX Nov 2014 #6
I don't know of any legal immigrants that Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #7
Thanks for clarifying LeftInTX Nov 2014 #8
Bingo Left. Latino's are VERY diverse but it's something neither Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #11
Then you most not know many people lunamagica Nov 2014 #9
You can disagree all you want, but I am mexican (over 60) and know a lot of mexican's here and there Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #10
That's right, numbets don't lie lunamagica Nov 2014 #14
Miami was my second choice Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #23
Some latinos don't trust El Mentiroso (Obama). Vattel Nov 2014 #12
True. I know a lot of people here do not. Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #13
te gusta pena nieto? Vattel Nov 2014 #16
No, por nada. Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #18
I don't blame you for not liking him. I don't know much about him. Thx for sharing your experiences. Vattel Nov 2014 #25
No problem, thank you for your interest in the thread.nt Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #28
Probably, but... Wounded Bear Nov 2014 #19
Of catholics going there from mexico at least Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #20
Yeah, I think you nailed it... Wounded Bear Nov 2014 #21
Yes, exactly. Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #24
Then There's Guns otohara Nov 2014 #30
Let me break this down and explain it a little more. Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #29
I'd be worried but Republican xenophobia is the cure. But watch for Jeb smorkingapple Nov 2014 #33
Democrats need to make some steps forward Guaguacoa Nov 2014 #35
 

Skeowes28

(62 posts)
1. Yes
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:24 PM
Nov 2014

Yes thry do but people have to understand everything in this life is about politics every decision made

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
2. Then they will have to live with the consequences.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:27 PM
Nov 2014

With the growing latino population democrats need a larger share of their vote.

apnu

(8,758 posts)
31. Indeed
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 02:21 PM
Nov 2014

The Dems are indifferent to Latino issues just as they are indifferent to African American issues.

Republicans, on the other hand, are openly hostile to Latino and African American issues. Because of that Dem leadership knows they can continue their indifference because they believe Latinos and African Americans will stay with the Democrats because there is no other option.

But that won't hold. Human beings will tolerate indifference for only so long.

This mid-term is a great example of AA's and Latinos expressing their displeasure with the Dems since they stayed home, largely. Dem candidates ran from Obama, so AA's had no motivation to show up this time. They're not stupid, they know they helped propel the Dems to victory in the past and are now, rightfully asking, "what have you done for me lately" of the Democrats. And the answer is, of course, nothing.

Latinos also. They've made it very clear what issues are important to them, and either party can take up those issues. The R's, however, are too far down their bigotry rabbit hole to consider this, and the Dems are lukewarm at best. Where is the full throated roar about labor, immigration, and equality? Nowhere. Latino people have no real motivation to stay with the Dems.

The Dems have been running away from the very principles that brings people to this big tent of ours and the electorate resoundingly punished them for it.

If the Dems continue to ignore the Latinos they ignore their future because Latinos will continue to stay home, and I wouldn't blame them. I also, expect, eventually, for them to give up on the Democratic Party, like African Americans did for the Republican party, at some point in the future. If the Republicans have any operational brain cells left, they'd start making noises to attract Latino votes.

Still, the GOP's old, white, male, and bigoted masters won't allow the Republicans to take up Latino issues in any positive way for Latinos. They'll be aware of this and comforted in the fact that Dem indifference and their racist craziness will continue to sideline the fastest growing segment of American population and the GOP will love it. Less voters means more victories for them. They know they're unpopular, they know the country rejects their policies, so any suppression of the vote they can muster is a win for them.

Democrats are fools for ignoring minority issues. The white ruling class in America is crumbling and aging out. Its a matter of time before whites lose their majority status in this nation.

Democrats can fix all of this right now by proudly declaring they are for liberal principles instead of hiding from them. The Dems have lost their courage -- that's the problem.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
34. Yes!
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 03:19 PM
Nov 2014

Democrats are fools for ignoring minority issues.

The Dems have lost their courage -- that's the problem.

Dems are too politically correct. There are huge problems in the latino and black neighborhoods in the us (have been and lived there) and democrats are too afraid to tackle them. This would go a long way.

onecaliberal

(32,864 posts)
3. Well.... They can sit out elections or vote for republicans
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:04 PM
Nov 2014

either way, they are going to get screwed. Republicans HATE them, if they can't see that I don't know what to say.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
4. See what I mean? Don't try to figure out the problem, just expect the vote.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:20 PM
Nov 2014

Democrats take them for granted and republicans don't care.

I have news for you. I've lived in the us and experienced as much, or more, hate from the left. I experienced more in southern california (the enlightened progressives) than I did in Arkansas. My wife was amazed that the people were so much better in arkansas. Both parties ignore the crime ridden latino areas as it doesn't involve white people I think democrats need to clean up their own house first, accept that there are a lot of racist democrats (in all parts of the country) and stop thinking of latinos as voting sheep. Expecting the influx of people that will become voters to automatically vote democrat will come back to bite them.

Democrats think pushing amnesty will fix everything while the truth is that not all latinos support amnesty. In fact a lot are against it.

I don't know what the answer is, I just know neither party has it. Both need to wake up.

Just a warning. One of these days latino's will be in power and they won't be beholding to either party. Since most are from a poor, religious background I expect it to surprise a lot of people when they emerge conservative. I would bookmark this post, but I will probably be dead by then. I'm in the over 60 crowd.

onecaliberal

(32,864 posts)
15. If they want to vote for people who hate them
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 11:08 PM
Nov 2014

It is certainly their prerogative. I grew up with a step father who is Latino so I'm familiar with the cultural and religion.
That said conservatives fear those with brown and black skin, are there some racist dems? You bet, but we aren't trying to block legislation to find solutions to some of their issues.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
17. I posted somewhere here that I, and the wife, saw far less
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 09:09 AM
Nov 2014

racism (none) in the conservative states of arkansas and oklahoma than in the liberal state of california. I would never think of even going back there and the people in ar adn ok are amazingly nice. The point is that it's not that cut and dried as some think depending on where they live and abortion plus gay rights tumps all for many conservatives and that includes latinos.

I'm just looking at things realistically, that's the way they are. Again, look at the percentage of latinos that voted for anti amnesty, closed border candidates from the first post.

I am pro abortion and pro gay rights, I would be voting democrat. I don't bury my head in the sand as to what the reality is though. My wife is a very hard core catholic and to her abortion trumps everything. No, I would never divorce her over it.

Response to Guaguacoa (Reply #17)

apnu

(8,758 posts)
32. ^^^ This.
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 02:24 PM
Nov 2014

Right now. This exact moment in time, the Latino vote is up for grabs.

They will take over majority status in America and they will look around at the two parties and wonder which one deserves their support, or if they will form their own party.

A wise party would begin laying the ground work for that support right now. Sadly I don't see that wisdom in either party.

LeftInTX

(25,381 posts)
6. Question/clarification about something you said:
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 05:46 PM
Nov 2014
I have lived in the US and know people there, by far most that went there legally oppose it. Many have family members waiting to get approved and consider this as them getting moved back


Are you saying new immigrants are opposing amnesty? Or immigrants that are now citizens are opposed to amnesty? If new immigrants are opposed is it because they are stuck in America while applying? I know many consider themselves guest/temporary workers. Will amnesty laws hurt guest workers?

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
7. I don't know of any legal immigrants that
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 06:03 PM
Nov 2014

like amnesty. They have done it legally and many are working on family legally. Amnesty is like saying they are being penalized for doing it legally and the legal ones get moved back while those getting amnesty go to the front. It someone with a green card years to legalize family, a citizen doing it is quicker.

Many here illegally get fired and move to something else because they get caught with bad papers. Papers are easy to get and the ones that are working are doing so with papers that are legally someone elses, many childref from puerto rico, etc. that are stolen and sold. The food processing plants are mostly these people.

Those there legally are competing for those there illegally for jobs. When all of a sudden the ones illegally there become legal the workplace becomes much harder for those there legally. The food processing plants where they used to not be able to sell a job are crowded now and hard to find a job. I know of people legally there that came back to mexico because they could not find a job due to being flooded with those there illegal.

Many new immigrants (legal and illegal) are very conservative. Anti abortion and gay rights. They come from small, very religious, pueblos. Many legal immigrants are against amnesty. That's why the split between republican and democrat. Amnesty is a big issue, but latinos are split on it and nobody really is picking that up.

LeftInTX

(25,381 posts)
8. Thanks for clarifying
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 06:41 PM
Nov 2014

Latinos are an extremely diverse group. Stats are hard to pin.

My husband's family has been here since the early 20th century. This group tends to vote like Italians on the East Coast. Many are liberal, but a decent size are conservative. (I'm thinking about 20-30% vote Republican) They tend to support education, health care......the basics, but tend to be socially conservative. For instance: Most wouldn't support legalization of marijuana. If the Democratic platform/candidates in Texas came out strongly for marijuana legalization, it would probably turn them them off.

I wonder if Wendy's vocal stance on women's reproductive rights turned some Latinos off? She lost Bexar County..But I don't know if that is why......





Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
11. Bingo Left. Latino's are VERY diverse but it's something neither
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 08:38 PM
Nov 2014

party there gets.

From the info I have seen, and some I have posted, something like over 40% tends to vote conservative. Like I was explaining to the latina lady in this thread, with all due respect, texas is a red state, but majority minority. Still over 40% voted for for the against immigration, closed border candidates. These are conservatives, in no way pro immigration or they would not have voted this way.

I guarantee you Wend't stance turned them off. Again I will explain not the ones that have been generations there, for the most part, but the newer immigrants that are very hard core anti abortion. Not everyone here in mexico and other countries are this way, I am not, but by far most people going there are. Poor, religious, anti abortion, anti gay.

I think you are right on mj legalization also.

Neither party gets it, latinos are taken for granted by both sides. The democrats think passing amnesty will cause all latinos to fall in line to vote democrat, but the numbers this time should reflects something over 40% voting against it as that was definitely an issue on the table.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
9. Then you most not know many people
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 07:02 PM
Nov 2014

I'm sorry, I completely disagree with you. As a Hispanic woman who lives among Hispanics, Immigration reform is immensely important. It affects a lot, a lot of people personally.

Did you notice the overwhelming support from Hispanics that Obama received in both elections when he proposed immigration reform, and soon?

What a coincidence that ththe lack of support in this election happens a couple of months after Obama said he was going to use his executive powers for immigration reform, just to go back an his words a few weeks later.

THAT was his mistake

The Latino community saw this as a slap on the face, and a reason not to believe anymore. You have no idea how many who believed in him now call him "El mentiroso" (the liar)

And yes, this happened because the Democrats take Hispanics for granted. Maybe if from now on they don't make promises just to back off weeks later, they can regain the trust and support of the Latin community.

We're tired of pretty speeches. We need ACTION.

P.S. The majority of non-Cuban Hispanics, regardless of how religious or poor they are, vote Democratic. This was more than proven in the last two presidential election, so don't look for culture and religion as an excuse. The apathy came from disillusionment with the democrats, and the belief than nobody cares anyway

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
10. You can disagree all you want, but I am mexican (over 60) and know a lot of mexican's here and there
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 08:27 PM
Nov 2014

Last edited Fri Nov 7, 2014, 09:01 PM - Edit history (1)

and have lived in "Recent immigrant" heavy latino areas in the us and can tell you I am right. I'm not talking about the latino community that is several generations in the us.

Did you notice the support toward a party that opposes immigration reform? A lot of them got over 40% and amnesty is an issue. I noticed exit numbers said amnesty was an issue for 45% of latinos and that would fall in line with what I am saying. There was not a huge difference in those and the ones that voted democrat as one would think. Apathy does not make people vote for the other side, it makes them stay home, try reading the numbers from this election. Don't tell me you actually think those people that voted republican support immigration reform as that would make the chances even worse.

I will continue to disagree with you as numbers do not lie. I think we are talking about different groups of people, you talking about generations in the US and me newer immigrants which I have clearly stated.

Tell me why texas is a red state but is majority minority. Because over 40% of latino's voted for candidates against amnesty and closed border candidates. That was not apathy, that was voting against amnesty and open borders. How can you even remotely ignore that? I know over 40% is not a majority, but where everyone thinks all latinos are for amnesty and open borders it's huge.

Latino's are diverse, you cannot group everyone into the same basket at all, even here in mexico there are different groups. That's just the way it is.

I'm a realist, I accept the way it is. Democrats not recognizing it, and working on it, is part of the problem. They take for granted the vote is there automatically, put all latinos into one bag and it's not that way.

OK, maybe you are privy to more info then. Explain to me why over 40% voted voted for these candidates in texas, and as I posted the same types of candidates in other places, and all latinos can still be pro amnesty. The answer? There are a lot of conservative latinos out there and a lot of them from poor, religious areas in their home country.

I'm guessing you are from somewhere like southern cal? From a long established latino family and the same with friends? The sad facts that in places I lived there established latino's and recent immigrants did not have a lot in common, even did not get along.

But like I say, I'm sure it's much different for you. I lived in recent immigrant, mostly illegal, latino areas around food processing plants, etc. The kind of places the people from here go to, there were even almost all of the people from the same small pueblos working in the same plants as they tend to go where people they know are. Very different than the latinos of places like southern ca, I lived there also. I have no thoughts of going back anywhere there, but if I did it would be the midwest.

I've got one for you. Want to know who treats mexican's the worst going through immigration in Juarez? US Latinas. Seriously, everyone I have known that has been through there says the same thing. They treat the people like dogs, very bad attitude. Far worse than latinos or anyone else. I have been there at least 10 times with people and they all say the same thing. It was also a topic of others I know that have been there. I could never understand it.


Sorry to keep coming back, but here Abbott in texas (against amnesty and for closed borders) got 50% of the latino vote and 39% of latinas (44% together). Again, I don't see how that's all latinos being for amnesty:

http://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/node/1080#by-gender-and-race

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
14. That's right, numbets don't lie
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 10:46 PM
Nov 2014

and the numbers of Latinos who voted Democratic for the past two presidential elections is overwhelming. There's no way around that.

Let's see here. Obama promised as a candidate immigration reform during the first year of his presidency. Latinos (and Asians) vote in record numbers for him. Then wait and wait. years pass and nothing. He starts campaigning for his second term. Wherever he goes that is heavily populated by Hispanics, the anger and disappointment in him is palpable, So much so that he apologizes and promises that immigration reform will be a top priority during his second term. Latinos (and Asians) believe in him again and are a key factor to his victory. That shows more loyalty than many would have shown

Then the wait and excuses start again. Halfway into his second term he says he is about to use his executive power on immigration. He even gives a date: June

June comes and he says that Ooops, he won't do it after all. Sorry. That was the last straw. Tons of Hispanica and Asians abandoned the Democratic party. What other thing than immigration would make these two groups vote in a similar matter

You keep quoting Texas, bu the country is more than that. The fact is that millions of Hispanics who vote before decided to sit this one out. And it really angers me that the speculations of "oh it's their culture", "it's their religion" "they are poor" start when they have more than proved their loyalty before. They just don't believe in Democrats anymore.

I'm sure I'm far from being the only one who disagrees with you. There's two of us on this thread alone.

Oh, and you couldn't be more wrong about me. I'm a first generation immigrant from Honduras who lives in Miami. So don't say you are right. You were way, way wrong here

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
23. Miami was my second choice
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 10:35 AM
Nov 2014

and I am right that you don't know anything about the areas of the us here most of the recent (last 15 years or so) are flocking to. The midwest with food processing plants, etc.

Yes, obama lied but you keep insinuating that that made them go vote for anti amnesty closed border candidates. It did not, that's wrong and ignorant. The people for these things did not automatically go vote the opposite. Sorry, you are horribly wrong.

I am quoting texas but you seem to be ignorant of the other candidates I posted in the first post:

How about georgia. In line with texas they suported the anti amnesty closed borders candidate?

"In Georgia, where a small but rapidly growing population of Hispanic citizens now represents 4 percent of voters, Gov. Nathan Deal, a Republican, was re-elected, winning 47 percent of Hispanic voters while his Democratic challenger received 53 percent. In the hard-fought Senate race in Georgia, David Perdue, a conservative Republican businessman, received 42 percent of the Latino votes while his Democratic opponent, Michelle Nunn, got 57 percent."

In kansas the majority of latinos suported the anti amnesty closed border candidate:

"In Kansas, Gov. Sam Brownback, a conservative Republican who had been under fire even from some in his own party for sharp tax cuts, received 47 percent of the Latino vote, while his Democratic challenger, Paul Davis, won 46 percent. The exit polls were conducted by Edison Research for the television networks and The Associated Press."

You are also ignoring the point of my thread. Not all latinos support amnesty and open borders, if you think these polls do not really reflect that then you are truly out of it.

How about florida?

"In Florida, Gov. Rick Scott won re-election despite losing the Hispanic vote to Democrat Charlie Crist by a margin of 38% to 58%, according to the state exit poll. That’s a marked decline from 2010, when 50% of Hispanics voted for Scott and from 2006, when the Latino vote was split 49%-49% between the two parties."

Rick scott, anti amnesty and closed border rep got 38% of the latino vote in ***FLORIDA***. This is in line with texas and rick perry's vote. It's close to 40%. What do you have to say about that? It seems you are VERY wrong.

Now it's time for the national numbers. How do you explain this?

"In congressional races nationally, Democrats won the Latino vote by a margin of 62% to 36%. This is comparable to the last midterm cycle four years ago when six-in-ten (60%) Latinos voted for a Democratic candidate, but down from 2012 when Democrats took 68% of the Latino vote."

Nation wide latinos voted at 36% for the closed border, no amnesty candidates. It's very close to texas and the approx 40% I estimated conservative in another post. Why don't you admit you are very wrong now? It has NOTHIING to do with what you or another person thinks in this thread (no other person is disagreeing with these numbers anyway) and you are very out of touch with latinos except those around you. In fact you or out of touch in florida as 38% voted republican.

I never said a majority voted conservative. I never said most have not always voted democtat. The points I have made and the nationwide, not just texas, figures support.

1. It's taken for granted that latinos ALL vote democrat, it's obvious this is not true. 38% voted the opposite.

2. Passing amnesty will not make all latinos fall in line in the democrat party. These 38% did not just vote against everything they stand for because obama lied. They would have just not voted.

My main point, that you cannot grasp, is that the democrat part needs to do more than just passing amnesty to get all latino voters. That won't do it. It will for a majority, but for those I have discussed here it will take more. They need to work on that.

Of course democrats have a majority of latinos, but the target is to get all for as long as republecans are getting 38% (average nationwide) that is not enough since the vast majority of white voters are republican.

Don't be blinded by hate, try to see it. Democrats have a history of ignoring things like this and they do not go away by themselves.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
13. True. I know a lot of people here do not.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 10:23 PM
Nov 2014

I live close to toluca, where obama came to visit pena nieto. Most here do not like pena nieto either.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
18. No, por nada.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 09:16 AM
Nov 2014

He was governor here in the state of Mexico. He is corrupt and people here call pri "narco gobierno". They bought votes with cards that were supposed to provide benefits for single mothers when pri got elected. Never happened, calderon's programs got cut. They bought votes with backpacks full of school stuff, cards with 250 pesos on them, etc. They had tents set up all over the place and traded these thi ngs for a scanned copy (yes they brought scanners) of people's cards they turned in for votes. They came around and painted people's houses for their votes.

I take it you like him? I'm guessing you do not live here.


Prices have shot up, crime has shot up. People here in the pueblos had contracts with cfe instead of meters so they could afford electricity, since pri they have cut the people's wires and are charging a 10,000 pesos fine to go to a meter. Most cannot afford a fine and also cannot afford the meter cost for electricity. We are talking 1000-2000 pesos a month income, metered electricity is over 1000 pesos a month. On the cfe page they admitted to 230000 being without electricity in mexico state, that is lowball and now there are a lot more. There are a good number around here.

Gas is higher now that the us. Vegetables, fruit and labor are cheaper here. Most other stuff higher. Rent higher. Buying land starts about 1500 pesos a square meter in the pueblos (rocky, hilly ground and that's 115.00 us a square meter) and goes up closer in. That's extremely high. A plot here the size of a city plot in the us will cost more than one there with a house on it. It was 400 pesos a square meter a couple of years ago.

If one owned a house in both places it would actually be cheaper to live in the us, I don't see myself going there though.

So do I like Pena Nieto? NO.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
25. I don't blame you for not liking him. I don't know much about him. Thx for sharing your experiences.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 05:57 PM
Nov 2014

Wounded Bear

(58,670 posts)
19. Probably, but...
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 09:35 AM
Nov 2014

many Latinos supported Dubya because of the whole religion thing. He was thought to be more religious than any Dem could possibly be, if you know what I mean. Never mind that Kerry was a Catholic, which should have mattered, but I guess he wasn't "pro-life" enough, apparently.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
20. Of catholics going there from mexico at least
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 09:50 AM
Nov 2014

pro life is probably the biggest issue.

The catholic church teaches that if you do not support the church on all issues you are not really catholic so hard core catholics like here do not see people like kerry or biden as catholics, just going through the motions.

I'll give you an example. In the US I knew a guy from there that married a mexican wife, he went though the change to catholic and had to take classes for something like a year. I forget the name for it there. Anyway they told him if he did not accept every aspect then he would not really be a catholic and there is no point to going through it. They said most people attending catholic church in the us were not real catholics as they did not accept everything.

For example the belief that the blood and flesh sacrament are actually changed to blood and flesh, abortion, etc.

So the point is catholics that follow the church strictly, like people here (especially the poor ones migrating there) do not believe they are actually true catholics.

Keep in mind I am not judging anyone (I'm not particularly religious). I also don't think the church can judge anyone on their relationship with their god, but they can judge on whether someone is following their doctrine or not. They don't kick people out for it, they just don't believe they are true catholics following the catholic doctrine.

It's kind of like someone being pro live, anti gay rights, etc. and calling themself a liberal. More power to them, but it doesn't actually mean they are and what's the point? Just like someone not following the pope or the catechism calling themselves catholic.

Again, I am just posting the way it is with the catholic church. It has nothing to do with my beliefs or the lack of.

Wounded Bear

(58,670 posts)
21. Yeah, I think you nailed it...
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 09:58 AM
Nov 2014

My second wife was a Mexican national, and Catholic of course. It didn't work out, and my lack of religiosity probably had something to do with it, although my being an alcoholic probably really sealed the deal.

I understand that it isn't about judgement per se. Reality and truth kind of transcends that. Another truth is that Catholics of a foreign stripe don't get our American separation of church and state. They are used to them being conjoined in many ways. We don't do it all that well here, either, of course, but we try. In any event, a recent immigrant probably follows church doctrine in the voting booth more strongly than the average, non-fundamentalist American whose family has been here a few generations will. Our Talibangelist wingnuts are trying to 'correct' that, I'm fighting back.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
24. Yes, exactly.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 10:41 AM
Nov 2014

I know the people going there are very religious, but if you live here and see these people making long trek's to the basilica end even crawling on their knees for long distances you will see that they are even more fanatical than those in the us. I don't think most democrats or see that. Getting them to vote for abortion is out of the question.

I seriously don't know the answer. In a generation or two it will probably change, but in the meantime it's either find a way to appeal to them or write them off.

All are not alike but are treated as so.

Democrats have the black vote, period. They think latinos are a one party people and they are not. The first step to fixing it is accepting it.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
30. Then There's Guns
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 12:13 PM
Nov 2014

I know in Pueblo there are many Hispanic gun owners and with their help, they recalled the first female Latina over minor changes in gun laws.

Never will understand why the fetus is so much more important than the child/teen/adult.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
29. Let me break this down and explain it a little more.
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 10:21 AM
Nov 2014

The facts are that 36% of latinos voted republican nationwide. That's over 1/3. While democrats have the majority its still taking for granted that democrats have all of the latino vote.

People for amnesty, open borders, abortion, etc. do not go and vote for the candidates firmly against just because they are upset with the president. These are people democrats need to concentrate on also.

Someone may come and say "latinos overwhelmingly vote democrat" which is true if 2/3 is considered overwhelmingly but what could that other 1/3 do?

If you look 1/3 of latinos are over 5% of the population. How many races are lost with 5% or less? What difference would this 5% make?

What group has the democrats more chance of winning over and the largest? Blacks vote democrat, nothing lacking there and I see the latinos as more likely to change over (full time especially) than whites.

What's the answer? I'm not really sure, but the first step in fixing a problem is recognizing it. Maybe concentrating on convincing them how amnesty, abortion is a good thing? Maybe doing something to make them believe that amnesty does not put people ahead of their relatives that have been waiting years to do it legally? I do believe using the same tactics on the conservative latinos as the rest of the conservatives will not work.

If the same person wants to post that I am wrong then please post something to back it up. I have posted info in the thread to back up what I am saying. I am only trying to point out what would help democrats.

I firmly believe THIS is the group that democrats also need.

smorkingapple

(827 posts)
33. I'd be worried but Republican xenophobia is the cure. But watch for Jeb
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 02:25 PM
Nov 2014

Those guys are just itching to call Latinos what they really think of them. It'll come out during the immigration debate and definitely in 2016.

Rubio won't get nomination and they don't have another strong Hipanic contender. But Jeb can speak Spanish fluently plus put up a Mexican wife so he'll blunt the natural criticism another R candidate would get.

I have a hard time believing nation would vote for another Bush but it is America, I don't put any stupid shit past us.

Guaguacoa

(271 posts)
35. Democrats need to make some steps forward
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 03:28 PM
Nov 2014

like in the latino neighborhoods in the us. I have seen (and lived in) several of them over several states there and crime being out of hand IS an issue. The crime rate is far higher there as there are latinos that make it their life's work to prey on immigrant latinos (usually the bad elements of illegal latinos) and the victims are afraid for the most part to report it. Even the legal ones as they come from countries like here here in mexico where the police are not to be trusted.

Democrats need to get past the political correctness of not tackling minority issues for fear of being called racist. It's not racist to help someone and recognize the problems. Republicans will never do it, but if democrats did it would go a long way.

Like I posted, 38% voted republican and that's not latino candidates in most places. I don't think latinos vote on candidates for race or spanish speaking ability. Look at pena nieto here, he speaks fluent spanish and is a crook. They are used to being screwed by spanish speakers in their own country, so it's not about speaking spanish or color of skin.

I'm also speaking about latinos limigrating there, not generations deep latinos.

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