"Do you think NY State should recognize gay marriage?" Hillary: "No."

[Bonobo]

2:23 of the video.

Not a second of hesitation. Not even a millisecond.

Quite the champion of gay rights you got there.

[FlatBaroque]

1. Craven politician

Just go away.

[KingCharlemagne]

10. Conniving opportunist or something far, far worse. - nt

[brooklynite]

71. like President Obama?

[FlatBaroque]

74. I don't try very much to keep score about these matters

Did President Obama "evolve" in his position as well? If he did, then you have your answer.

EDIT: ...though in fairness, I do credit the President for the SCOTUS appointments that led to the decision.

[truebluegreen]

92. Why, yes, now that you mention it.

[marym625]

2. more than that

Her refusal state emphatically she wouldn't vote for someone that is anti-choice is just as bad.

I would like to hear that answer now.

[Bonobo]

3. Yes, neither would she admit that going after Saddam before OBL was a mistake.

But yes, her lack of defense of abortion rights, if done by a man would have been met here on DU with EXTREME anger. If you don't think so, just look at the following thread and ask yourself, what if Bernie had actually said what SHE said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=57694

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. The hits just keep comin and deservedly so. Hillary is her own worst enemy.

[babylonsister]

4. How old is this? Disingenuous at best here.

Have you never said or done something you ever regretted? Ever hear of evolving? And maybe at the time it was a purely political standpoint, which I suspect is correct.
Either way, yea, you don't like her. Message received. But why not try to find something more current if you're intent on disparaging her?

[Bonobo]

5. It's from 2002. Hillary was 55 years old, a Senator from one of the US's largest states.

Politicians run on their record, like it or not.

This isn't exactly looking at what she did as President of the College Republicans.

[winter is coming]

18. +1. I could care less that she was a Goldwater Girl a zillion years ago.

But stuff she said and did as a senator? Hell, yes, that matters.

[Historic NY]

25. Obama was against before he was for it.....

but you obviously forgot the conveniently. Outrage much.

[CanadaexPat]

30. Obama's not running.

[Historic NY]

36. Not going to work..........

it wasn't supported then. And over whelming majority of the people were against it. DOMA passed in 1996 by superior numbers. Even Vermont didn't legalize marriage until 2009. So why didn't Bernie make them do it sooner? She represented NY state at the time and same sex marriage was not made legal until 2011.

I live near New Paltz where the first marriages were performed in 2004, NY court rejected most of all that stuff going on then in fact those that perform them were charged under the existing laws. NY did however recognize same sex marriaged perform elsewhere and did recognize domestic partnerships and the NY pension system recognized them too.

Lots of lawsuits back and forth and efforts were blocked by the NY Senate.

“Well, marriage means something different. You know, marriage has a meaning that I think should be kept as it historically has been, but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships can’t have many of the same rights and the same respect for their unions that they are seeking, and I would like to see that be more accepted than it is.” In 2003 she supported domestic partnerships in NY.

She continued to support the issue and both she and Shumer made statement to the effect...that they would not block any legislation for the same. In fact both supported it, NY state on a whole did not.

[CanadaexPat]

38. So she supported separate but equal? Awesome info, thanks.

[Historic NY]

39. Obviously your deluded...

seperate but equal doesn't apply to this...

Ask Bernoe why his state didn't adopt gay marriage why he voted against DOMA in 1996....then get back to me. Mrs Clinton was an elected official then.

[druidity33]

87. Bernie has been vocally for gay marriage since 1972. nt.

[The Second Stone]

41. Neither are you, and I'm not voting for you or for Sanders

I get to vote once in the primaries, and I'm voting Clinton.

[winter is coming]

37. ? You must have me mixed up with some other DUer.

I haven't forgotten that Obama was against it before he was for it. He position changed when it was politically "safe" to do so. The huge advances we've seen in LGBT rights are the work of the LGBT community, not Obama.

[Fairgo]

64. Credit where credit is due

The community led, not the politicians.

[totodeinhere]

93. No we haven't forgot that. There were plenty of threads at DU excoriating Obama

for his previous stand on gay marriage. And remember when he invited Rick Warren to his inauguration? DU when ballistic over that.

[6chars]

49. I don't think younger voters will care about something from 2002

Someone whose 20 now was something like 3 in 2002. They will care about what candidates are doing today.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

78. Exactly! Thought LEADers sposed to LEAD! Champions sposed to champion causes BEFORE they become popular...

To Hillary, those are just poll-tested words written into a speech she reads with all the gusto of a beer or soda that's lost its fizz. Now Bernie on the other hand...he's The Real Thing! Go Bernie Go!

[pangaia]

85. Very well said.

[Duckhunter935]

7. Not very old

That crap is why I will not vote for her.

[KingCharlemagne]

13. It will take a long time -- almost eternity -- for the blood of 1,000,000+ innocent Iraqis

to finish dripping from her fingers.

[CanadaexPat]

35. 'A purely political standpoint' - you got that right

What else that's she says now is a purely political standpoint, that she will abandon once elected? What's the science to figuring out which is a truly felt belief and which is selfishness and expediency?

[Maedhros]

60. In another thread, we've got a poster claiming that Sanders' vote against DOMA

wasn't pure enough. This follows a consistent pattern of regurgitation of Clinton campaign talking points about Sanders' alleged indifference to civil rights issues. In that context, it's fair to consider Hillary's public statements while in the Senate.

[onehandle]

6. Our Nominee!

And next President!

Thanks for promoting our Choice!

[Bonobo]

8. Happy to let people see what they would be voting for.

Our vote is by far our greatest tool we have for effecting change in our country.

It should not be exercised lightly nor thrown away with a sense of helpless surrender.

Votes represent our hopes and our aspirations for the future, particularly the primaries when we have the opportunity and responsibility to vote for someone we think best matches our ethical outlook.

[Divernan]

79. You're too generous in crediting some people with having an ethical outlook.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

81. And nobody should EVER forget it!

[Duckhunter935]

9. And not an LGBT supporter

That she tries to pass her self as being. She is being disingenuous at best and at worst she is Ly*****

[frylock]

43. yipee!!!

[Depaysement]

11. Blowin' with the wind

Goin' with the flow.

Rolling with polling.

Of course, that was the position of most politicians at the time.

[PowerToThePeople]

12. it now goes this way.

[colsohlibgal]

14. It Is Dated

But it shows there is some intolerance is in there.

More deadly was her vote in favor of bombing/invading Iraq. Her supporters are saying she's handled this by her admission that she was wrong.

But...I'm sure most of us could see then this war was bogus, the USA does not initiate war. That the thought that they had anything to do with 9/11 was so wrong.

It showed a combination of bad judgment and a willingness to get swept along in a rush to war. Bernie saw through it. And Hillary might already be president but her democratic challenger in 2008, Obama, saw through it as well. He didn't have that "scarlet letter".

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

82. You're so right. And how long did it take to force that admission out of Hillary? How come others were so right from the beginning? Just sad.

[boston bean]

17. OP is probably hoping people don't watch the entire video..

You have to go to the very end.....

In 2000-2012 that is where the bulk of the difference was between the parties and the nation. Republicans no to civil unions, Democrats for civil unions with full equality under the law, but not marriage...

People want to wrap themselves up in some bubble like history and political realities didn't exist and that the world is what it is today.

This issue has morphed in warp speed, and thank god for that!

Then try to make it seem throughout this thread, that Hillary couldn't say she would not support an anti choice nominee for SCOTUS.... also, a bunch of bullshit, if you actually watch the video posted.

[Bonobo]

19. In another thread, you said Hillary has always supported gay rights.

That isn't true.

[frylock]

45. When she openly opposed same-sex marriage?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. Let's hope she doesn't change her mind again

[BrotherIvan]

90. +1

Let's hope on the next really important issue, the wind isn't blowing the wrong way, because you just never know. How messed up is that??

[frylock]

46. what percentage of people supported desegregation?

[BrotherIvan]

88. So you're cool with leaders thinking you aren't equal

for decades? I'm not. Not at all.

[HereSince1628]

16. Marriage licenses for all, protected by the 14th Amendment, were inevitable

Support of that by every politician at every moment in time wasn't, and still isn't, inevitable but is contingent upon it's being a 'winning position'.

Winning, as we have repeatedly been told by the Democratic establishment is the most important thing.

[Evergreen Emerald]

20. She was an elected official representing her constituents

So, when Bernie votes against gun control--because that is what his constituents want, that is ok? But when Clinton represents her constituents, it is intolerance?

Quite the double standard.

Further, it was a different time. Our society was coming around. It took time, just like it is taking time for gun control.

[Bonobo]

21. So why was Bernie not against gay marriage when Hillary was?

Are you saying NY was anti-gay marriage but VT was pro?

Had Hillary polled the entire NY state? Did she ignore gay marriage supporters in her state?

Are you saying she was actually pro-fay marriage but wasn't courageous enough to take that stand (Bernie was) or are you saying this was "pre-evolution"?

Which defense are you going to go with for this?

[Evergreen Emerald]

23. I am curious to know how old you are

You would have understood the time. Bernie was radical by those standards and not the norm at all. You are attempting to use historical standards to judge someone today. It is a superficial look at the world.

[Bonobo]

24. Sorry, my mom's calling.

I have to go clean my room.

I'll get back to you when I finish my chores.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

80. LOL!

[rock]

29. Obviously you meant

the poster's mental age.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. Apparently!

[Exultant Democracy]

103. Way to raise the bar champ. You sure knocked his block off with that zinger.

It was true in 2008 and surprise surprise it is true today, you can always count on the Clinton folks to class up the joint.

[Fumesucker]

44. Being right too soon is socially unacceptable

Really we should be shunning Bernie for his stuck up and superior "I've been right all along" attitude, what a know it all. Who the hell wants someone who has been right so many times on so many issues for so long as President, I bet he doesn't even _drink_ beer.

[frylock]

72. Sanders' kneejerk reaction to rush headlong into doing the right thing should be scrutinized..

Do you really want a President that doesn't take time to make those Hard Choices™ by monitoring polls, or soliciting opinions from focus groups?

[hifiguy]

75. You mean someone still has, umm, actual

principles, and has the ridiculous audacity to consistently uphold them? Horrors!

[totodeinhere]

94. It was never radical to support gay rights. Your comment is an affront to all of

us who worked so hard for so long to change this country. Bernie was with us back then. Hillary not so much.

[Bonobo]

100. You make 2002 song like ancient history.

I'll tell you my age. I am 49. And to me, 2002 is a very short time ago. Hillary is the same person despite what she may pretend.

Now tell me how old YOU are. Because to me, YOU sound like the one who is so young that they imagine things were so different just a short time ago.

[Exultant Democracy]

102. The dark distant times we called 2002...

The people were real crude back then so you can't expect our future leaders (who were also elected official way back then) to think gay people should have equal rights.

Of course that begs the question as to why some people were able to understand right from wrong even in those distant backwards times.

Should we vote for the person who can understand right from wrong even in the dark ages, or vote for the person who is ten years behind on the curve of justice.

[davidpdx]

110. That last line says it all

Hillary Clinton was in the Senate for almost the entire "dark age". She voted for the IWR and the bankruptcy bill (which made all student loans non-dischargeable).

[Mnpaul]

33. Hillary was in favor of states rights concerning gun control as well

What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that they’re going to try to impose, I think doesn’t make sense. 2008

[frylock]

58. Was she representing her constituents when she voted for Bush's IWR?

[frylock]

59. It was a different time when Sanders was an activist for equal rights for black Americans as well..

I suppose he could've waited until it was socially acceptable to fight for their rights too.

[Paladin]

22. I'm supporting her, anyway.

You Bernie Acolytes, get back to the rest of us when you discover a candidate without flaws in their past---very much including the man you're supporting now.....

[frylock]

61. Never mind that Clinton's "flaws" show how incapable she is as a leader

[Paladin]

63. You're entitled to your opinion. (nt)

[frylock]

65. And you're entitled to your rationalization

[Paladin]

66. That's what I get for trying to keep things civil.

Bad showing, on your part.

[frylock]

67. Yes. Poor form indeed, especially when you're trying to "keep things civil"..

with your crack about Bernie Acolytes.

[cantbeserious]

27. Duplicity - The Video Never Lies

eom

[Thinkingabout]

32. Bernie thinks his record negatives is a smear, here you go with another smear.

We know Hillary's record, the situation has changed, the SC ruling is the law. With the shooting in Charleston and Bernie voting with the NRA against the Brady Bill and other gun control issues is still a problem.

[tularetom]

34. I doubt that she ever opposed gay marriage nor do I believe she supports it now

Frankly, I don't think it matters to her except as an issue she can use to get elected which is pretty much the standard for any stance she takes on any matter that is presented to her.

She really has no core beliefs, she's a chameleon.

[Bjorn Against]

42. Yes, she supported a seperate but equal policy for gay couples

[Bjorn Against]

56. Thankfully we have a candidate in Bernie Sanders who was not a part of that majority

I would prefer a candidate who does the right thing even when it is not popular to a candidate who will oppose equal rights for a minority group when it is popular to do so.

[Renew Deal]

47. You voted for Obama twice when he had the same position

[Reter]

48. Nearly all of us opposed gay marriage back then

It's ok, people evolve and change.

[AuntPatsy]

51. I never opposed equality , but that's me

[Duckhunter935]

53. I did not

But that is my true belief, I do not stick my finger in the air.

[GeorgeGist]

105. You say that like you're not gay.

[bunnies]

57. Who is "us"?

I dont ever remember thinking it was any of my concern who married who. Id argue that most liberals were never anti-equality.

[winter is coming]

70. No. Just no. n/t

[frylock]

73. or nah.

[Fumesucker]

83. I had a bunch of gay customers back then

My next door neighbor's business partner was a lesbian carpenter and I ended up doing a lot of custom work for her gay clientele. Their money was better than a lot of straight's money at the time, if they wanted to get married, hey no problem, married people spend more on renovation and building and less on partying.

[BrotherIvan]

89. See that's the problem

You can rationalize it away. If someone thought I was not an equal person, with rights and dignity, as some do, I would not forget that. Especially not someone who wants the highest office in the land. She was just wrong. She SMILED and nodded ruefully. Yup, I'm a bigot, deal with it! And now she's a champion????

[totodeinhere]

96. Not true. Since it's founding DU has been a bastion of support for LGBT rights.

And the quickest way to get tombstoned was to oppose rights for all Americans.

[noiretextatique]

98. all of who?

certainly not gay democrats.

[RandySF]

52. How did you vote in the 2008 primary and general?

[BrotherIvan]

91. In 2008, we didn't have a choice on this issue

But a hell of a lot of us decided on her IWR vote alone. A politician can't be wrong on a majority of the issues and try to pretend like it never happened. Her record is there for all to see.

[Sunlei]

62. In 2002 she was most of the population., Today, Hillary Clinton Praises Gay Marriage Decision and Ho

Hillary Clinton Praises Gay Marriage Decision and Hounds GOP

http://time.com/3938898/hillary-clinton-gay-marriage/

[stranger81]

69. But . . . . but . . . .

She had to burn the village in order to save it!

[orpupilofnature57]

76. Third Way is another K-Street Way of being ambiguous politically, not sexually like a three way, What

Voltaire said about Absurdities & Atrocities comes to mind .

[olddots]

84. I'm almost as old as Hillary

if she didn't have her shit together then I would never back her in a million years.

[orpupilofnature57]

86. Oh

[Admiral Loinpresser]

95. I'm almost as old as HRC.

And her shit is all over the map. And all over the graveyards of the Middle East.

[hrmjustin]

97. I am a proud Gay man who just spent the weekend celebrating Gay Pride.

And i love Hillary and glad she stands with us on Marriage Equality.

It was a great weekend.

Cheers.

[morningfog]

99. This is why using her "H>" branding for the 'history" rainbos was offensive and exploitative.

Using her "H" in a rainbow "HISTORY" banner that still is displayed on her twitter page is just offensive. Like she had jack shit to do with this HISTORY. I'm surprised she hasn't been taken to task for it yet.

[davidpdx]

108. +1

[itsrobert]

101. Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Nominated by a Clinton.

http://time.com/3937882/ruth-bader-ginsburg-gay-marriage-ruling/

It’s official: gay marriage is now a Constitutional right everywhere in America, thanks to the Supreme Court’s landmark ruling in the Obergefell v. Hodges case on Friday. While there was a majority decision of 5-4, there is one justice who has stood out above the rest as a steadfast and fierce supporter of marriage equality, and you might know her as the Notorious RBG. Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s support of gay marriage has been crucial, from her personal opinion of the American public’s shifting attitude to April’s oral arguments and, ultimately, the historical decision that says anyone in any state can marry the person they love. Justices Anthony Kennedy, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan joined Ginsburg in agreeing that gay couples should be free to marry in all 50 states.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4542420

Hillary supported and encouraged the President's the decision. Without Hillary, we maybe waiting another 20 years for this historic decision.

[askew]

104. Give me a break.

Hillary's supporters want it both ways. They want to credit Hillary with all of Bill's positive accomplishments but cry sexism when Hillary is blamed for Bill's mistakes.

Let's make it really easy. Hillary doesn't get the credit or the blame for Bill's decision as president. And she most certainly doesn't get any credit for RBG's appointment to the SC or for the gay marriage decision.

[davidpdx]

109. +1

[raouldukelives]

106. Yeah sure, but if you look at things on the cosmic calendar.

She didn't evolve that long after Bernie.

[L0oniX]

107. Ouch!