Do you think Hillary was copying Bernie everytime

[boston bean]

she voted the same way he did during her Senate term (2001-2009)?

She voted the same as him 93% of the time.

Do you think she was that prescient that she would face him in a primary in 2015-2016? And was stealing his platform in anticipation of this race?

I read all the time here that she is just copying him and doesn't really mean anything she says...

If she has that capability, it's even more of a reason to vote for her!

[Prism]

1. That 7% contains some biggies

Iraq, for a start.

Which really, honestly should disqualify any politician from ever serving again, IMO.

If your fuck up kills a million people, you're done.

[LittleBlue]

8. I can never tell which Hillary excuse is worse

That she voted for the IWR because she was afraid to vote no, or she genuinely was bamboozled by chimpy of all people. Neither is much of an endorsement.

[HooptieWagon]

10. +1

[840high]

68. +2

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. +1

[arcane1]

50. One thing they have in common: they're both lies

So at least she's consistent

[elehhhhna]

58. that and her "Bobby Kennedy was assasinated in June" remark

Told me all I need to know.

[Ed Suspicious]

69. Yup. Sickening. I've read a few times today about Bernie's impending doom if he turns this

momentum into a legitimate run to the White House in the general.

Obviously not from Clinton, but people are aware and willing to admit now more than ever the danger a true president of the people poses to the powers that be and the those in power will go to in order to ensure their continued dominance. Clinton's words on Kennedy speak to that reality, in my opinion.

[Smarmie Doofus]

54. The other 93% was about declaring National Librarians' Day and such.

My god .... her advocacy cadre is just ridiculous.

Keeeeerist.... is this the best they can do?

[a2liberal]

75. This. (nt)

[Beagle One]

2. Why the hell would I vote for a triangulator

when I can vote for the authentic item and he means what he says, not what the 300 political advisors and focus groups tell her what to say.

Psst... Clinton had to change some of her positions so she APPEARS to be populist.

I know she is merely giving lip service to the progressives and would abandon them the minute she is nominated.

Right now, I'm not very impressed with her and there are still questions to be answered that Clinton has been avoiding since her kickoff.

[RufusTFirefly]

89. Why indeed? Shame on you for spoiling the latest meme

"Hillary is almost like Bernie but more electable."

The desperate efforts to transform a corporatist triangulator into a principled progressive are transparent and pathetic.

[Iliyah]

3. K & R

How are you doing today!

[boston bean]

4. Howdy! Good you!?

[Iliyah]

29. Getting ready to watch current movies that are now playing in the theaters at home - LOL

[boston bean]

31. Pick a good one and have FUN and enjoy! nt

[Iliyah]

46. Sweetie, I have them all!

Thanks

[we can do it]

5. Stop copying me!!!! Sounds like first grade.

[boston bean]

6. Right!!!!!!!!

[passiveporcupine]

72. did Bernie ever say that?

No, but some of you are giggling here as if he did and his supporters are all being childish like he is. Thanks for showing us you can be adults about this. I may not like Hillary, but I don't disrespect anyone here who favors Clinton. I may not understand how you can be so "against" Sanders, but I still respect your choice and your right to be/believe different than me.

I may post things about Bernie that I like and maybe even question things about Hillary, but I don't need to put you down to make my point.

[BainsBane]

7. I thought elections were supposed to be about issues?

And folks wanted the Democratic party to adopt more leftist positions?
No so much, I guess.

[NanceGreggs]

11. There are a lot of "issues" posters here.

That's why the important "issue" of Hillary's campaign logo was discussed extensively.

You wouldn't want the nation to be led by someone with the "wrong logo", would ya now?

[ismnotwasm]

15. !!!!

So true

[boston bean]

17. It's pointing right and it's red!!!!!!!

Funny!

[ismnotwasm]

22. Oh Noos!!1

A secret message!

[boston bean]

26. Bad optics..

[Iliyah]

30. commie

[boston bean]

32. LOL!

[sheshe2]

39. You copied me!

I was going to post that.

[brer cat]

62. I am not even going to ask.

omg.

[SunSeeker]

84. LOL nt

[NanceGreggs]

28. Well, you have to keep your priorities straight.

The wrong logo could lead to democracy - and civilization itself - being utterly destroyed.

Thank the universe for those who are on top of these issues, and aren't afraid to speak up!

[Thinkingabout]

9. If she makes a speech such as voter suppression and in a short time later Bernie sponsors a bill, it

Would seem Bernie is following Hillary.

[elehhhhna]

59. there's talk and there's action

Her preference is clear. So is his.

[sheshe2]

12. Hey boston!

[boston bean]

13. Hey sheshe!

[sheshe2]

18. You~

[boston bean]

27. I'm here

to PUMP YOU UP!



GO HILLARY!!!!!

[sheshe2]

41. ...

[zappaman]

14. Yes. Undoubtably.

[boston bean]

16. I bet C-Span probably has some hot footage of the deed! nt

[zappaman]

21. Good luck finding that footage.

[boston bean]

24. Beautiful pic! She is going to make a great president! nt

[Bonobo]

19. For the most part, Dems vote with Dems and Repubs with Repubs.

It is the 7% that scares me. A lot.

[DanTex]

35. Yes. This is why the important thing is electing a Dem. And not a Rep.

[Bonobo]

36. I agree, but swimming is preferable to treading water. nt

[rhett o rick]

20. So if I get this right, she voted with him 93% of the time then one might think she

is 93% as good. But wasn't one of those votes that they didn't agree on, the AUMF? The biggest mistake in a century if not longer? Maybe it isn't the number of correct votes she made but how many helped the 99%. The vote for the AUMF not only lead to the deaths of maybe a million Iraqi's, it devastated our middle and lower classes (Goldman-Sachs, Dick Cheney, and the Wall Street boys made good), it left thousands of our vets wounded and fighting for jobs and health care, it gave the CIA and NSA carte blanche to spy on Americans. Amazing that some can forget and forgive that decision.

[Agschmid]

42. Man that's a stretch.

Who knew the AUMF gave the NSA and the CIA their power!

The conspiracy theory around here is OTT.

[Bonobo]

64. The 93% reminds me of the CLAIM that 90% of the donations were $100 or less

It's umm, true, but it's also deceitful in all likelihood for the reason you suggest.

90% of the donations, NOT 90% of the money.

93% of the votes which includes really inconsequential shit for the most part and then stuff like the AUMF and other deplorable stuff.

No, not all bills are equally important.

Sorry to use logic.

[passiveporcupine]

67. Was recently reading a topic on National Geo (I think)

about how to read charts to avoid propaganda and actually get to the truth, because lots of times charts are made in such a way they exaggerate and/or distort the truth. This 90% of contributors (not of money) is a perfect example of how charts can do this...but too many people just buy it without questioning it.

[awoke_in_2003]

80. Because we still like to believe the BS

"One person, one vote"

[Gothmog]

23. Hillary Clinton has some of the best proposals on voter protection that I have seen

Voting rights will be an important issue. First, Hillary's attorney has been suing Ohio and Wisconsin to protect voting rights. Then HRC made some of the most sweeping proposals for voter protection that I have seen from a national poltician https://www.hillaryclinton.com/the-briefing/fact-sheet-voting-rights/

In a speech in Houston today, Hillary Clinton laid out her vision for how to expand access to the ballot box for all Americans and how to defend against Republican assaults on voting rights.

She specifically focused on protecting and expanding the franchise of young and minority voters, seniors, and other underrepresented groups disproportionately impacted by harmful Republican efforts to restrict voting.

She called for universal, automatic voter registration, where every citizen in every state in the union would be automatically registered to vote when they turn eighteen – unless they actively choose to opt out.

She called for a new national standard of no fewer than 20 days of early in-person voting in every state, including opportunities for weekend and evening voting.

Additionally, she called for:

Congress to move quickly to pass legislation to repair the damage to the Voting Rights Act done by the Supreme Court in 2013; and,

Implementation of the recommendations of the President’s bipartisan presidential commission to improve voting, which includes expanding early, absentee, and mail voting, providing online voter registration, and establishing the principle that no one should ever have to wait more than 30 minutes to vote.

[boston bean]

25. Yes!!!! and you know that Citizens United Case?

It was brought on because of a hit piece movie on her, that was not allowed to be aired.

She must be copying Bernie Sanders, when she calls for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United!

Who'd a thunk it???

[Iliyah]

40. Well with the GOPers voter suppression laws being implemented all

over the country and especially in Electoral College states that in the past determines the Presidency, you can have 300 million people showing up but if you can't vote, than the GOPers win.

HRC know this.

[virtualobserver]

48. my favorite moment of her campaign

excellent leadership on her part

[Rosa Luxemburg]

33. Xeroxing?

[orpupilofnature57]

34. Your a Trooper !!! God Bless

That's some logic, I love it .

[sufrommich]

37. .......

[boston bean]

38. I think my logic is intact, even if others are having difficulty following!

[CTBlueboy]

43. Cant wait

to cast for my vote for Bernie Sanders knowing he didn't vote for to give the Bush regime authorization to invade iraq

[orpupilofnature57]

53. + 1000 Well Put !!!!!!

[arcane1]

45. A logical fallacy, on DU? I never thought I'd see it.

Great way to twist people's words for dishonest ends

[randys1]

47. I am not sure why all the arguing over these two candidates, who here is gonna change their minds?

Almost nobody.

So why not support your candidate, vote for your candidate, and when one has been chosen, go from there.

Why all the fighting?

[orpupilofnature57]

49. I agree .

[randys1]

51. thanks

[brer cat]

63. I haven't decided.

But then, I don't plan to make my decision based on what a DU member says, so fight on or whatever.

[snagglepuss]

65. Because people who havent made up their minds need convincing.

Also the fighting here, though brutal at times, really helps hone arguments that will be really important in the general no matter who the candidate is.

[840high]

70. 100% correct.

[hrmjustin]

52. It is not nice to use logic.

[Vattel]

55. no

[McCamy Taylor]

56. Watch out, you will make some heads explode if you use logic.

[winter is coming]

73. I think we're safe. n/t

[virtualobserver]

57. Obviously not

but copying can be a wonderful thing

For example, in the 1992 campaign...both Paul Tsongas and Ross Perot campaigned on reducing the deficit.

That was not Bill Clinton's primary focus initially in the 1992 election period, he was focused on middle-class tax cuts.

Once elected, he did in fact balance the budget.

It was balanced for so many years consecutively that the discussion during the ridiculous 2000 election was on how to spend the gigantic surplus.

[elehhhhna]

60. he's not running.

[awoke_in_2003]

82. Isn't he? nt

[GeorgeGist]

66. I've never heard any Hillary supporters claiming ...

that Bernie's following her lead.

[upi402]

71. she supports the disastrous tarde agreements... NAFTA etc.

she is a corporatist where it counts.
telecommunications act was fine by her too!
how's all that working out?

was that prescient?

[onecaliberal]

74. The corporate money is a deal breaker for me.

We said Obama needed to do it to beat Mitt 4 years later, same story. You are either for corporations buying elections and candidates or you're against it. You can't honestly believe those people are giving her millions out of the goodness of their hearts and they won't be wanting anything in return.

[frylock]

76. The Senate Votes That Divided Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders

Hillary Rodham Clinton is a liberal Democrat on domestic matters, and Bernie Sanders is a socialist. They voted the same way 93 percent of the time in the two years they shared in the Senate.

<snip>

In many of the cases in which she differed with Mr. Sanders, who represents Vermont and is also running for the Democratic presidential nomination, Mrs. Clinton went with the crowd. She voted with an overwhelming majority of her colleagues, including Republicans. Her positions on the votes that differed from Mr. Sanders represented policy differences, but they may have also reflected political calculations by Mrs. Clinton, who was preparing for a presidential run in 2008.

The 31 times that Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders disagreed happened to be on some the biggest issues of the day, including measures on continuing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, an immigration reform bill and bank bailouts during the depths of the Great Recession. Mr. Sanders, who formally kicked off his campaign Tuesday evening in Burlington, Vt., was opposed to all these actions.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/upshot/the-senate-votes-that-divided-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders.html?referrer=

[davidpdx]

85. One of those times was the bankruptcy bill in 2005

[frylock]

93. That bill had a direct and negative impact on my life..

and for that, I could not, in good conscience, vote for Joe Biden either.

[Cheese Sandwich]

77. She should have copied his vote against the Iraq War, and the bank bailouts,

These candidates are so different they are barely in same political party.

[RufusTFirefly]

90. Yawn! Not that old IWR chestnut again!

It's not as though anyone died or any money was spent thanks to her politically expedient vote.

By the way, what kind of pony do you want?



Reminds me of the old joke: "Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

[RufusTFirefly]

78. Who co-sponsored a bill to criminalize flag-burning?

And who voted FOR the PATRIOT ACT?



Anyone? Anyone?

[MADem]

79. She sponsored that bill to avert a Constitutional AMENDMENT PROHIBITING flag burning.

And if you bother to read the bill she co-sponsored, it says NOTHING. It prohibits flag burning ON FEDERAL PROPERTY.

Guess what? That was already prohibited! Her bill was sop and bullshit, to get a bunch of morons off a bad idea.

What she did was wave a red flag in front of a bunch of GOP bulls, and they stomped off and voted for that bill, which changed NOTHING. It was all noise, smoke and mirrors....and it stopped the GOP from amending the Constitution with a dumb-ass Scalia-like amendment.

Jeez, it's not cool to be proud of advertising that one does not know their recent history.....

She PREVENTED the Hatch Flag Amendment. She made BAD law go away by creating law that said and changed NOTHING.

Hatch has said he believes he has 66 senators who will vote for the constitutional amendment - one shy of the 67 that would be needed to pass it through Congress and send it to the states, where 38 would have to ratify the measure. The House embraced the amendment last year.

"I would say it's a critical debate," Hatch said. "Should this amendment pass, we will restore . . . the power of the people over their own Constitution. We will make it clear that it is the people, not the judges, who are sovereign."

The issue puts the two Utah colleagues in opposing corners - Hatch leading the Constitutional change, while Bennett has steadfastly opposed an amendment.

Hatch insists that, because of the Supreme Court's rulings defending flag burning, a statute would be inadequate. Bennett argues that flag desecration is wrong, but is not a serious enough problem to require tinkering with the Constitution.

"I am upset about people who burn the flag, but I took an oath to uphold the Constitution, not the flag," Bennett said earlier this month.

Bennett's statutory flag protection was introduced last year and is co-sponsored by Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. It prohibits desecrating a flag with the intent to breach the peace, threatening anyone by burning a flag, or stealing and burning a flag on federal land.

Very specific legislation, and it covers things (breach of the peace, threatening, or lighting fires on federal property) that are ALREADY prohibited.

[RufusTFirefly]

83. Wow! Multi-dimensional chess!

Too bad her home paper, The New York Times, wasn't smart enough to notice

Senator Clinton, in Pander Mode
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/opinion/senator-clinton-in-pander-mode.html

Nor was the Washington Post's Richard Cohen

Star-Spangled Pandering
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/14/AR2005121401887.html

Was she playing a similar game as recently as 2013 when she opposed gay marriage?

Hillary Clinton's Gay Marriage Problem
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/hillary-clintons-gay-marriage-problem/372717/

Can't determine her true motivation? Whoops!! Time's up!!

[MADem]

86. NYT--Bush mouthpiece, Judy Miller-ville. And you're surprised they'd put her down?

You like the NYT? Tells us all we need to know!

[RufusTFirefly]

88. Whoops! Guess who Judy Miller-ville endorsed in the 2008 primary?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/opinion/25fri1.html

[Sheepshank]

95. So MSM is revered, right up unil the moment they are not?

Sometimes the flip flopping is head dizzying.

Can't you just admit you were wrong about the motivations on the flag burning without digging in your heels and moving the goal posts? The nyt follow up just makes you look petty and defensive.

[RufusTFirefly]

96. That's right. Keep digging

The point is that the same editorial board of the New York Times that endorsed Clinton for Senate in 2000 and endorsed her in the New York Presidential Primary accused her pandering on the flag issue. The New York Times is an Establishment paper and Hillary Clinton is an Establishment candidate.

The notion that she is some sort of fiery populist is absurd. One look at her campaign contributors should quickly disabuse you of that delusion.

The idea that she is received more warmly by the non-mainstream media is ludicrous.

[MADem]

97. She was trying to crawl her way back--no one bought it.

Colin Powell endorsed Obama--none of that got on POTUS, either.

So, not sure what you're whoops-ing about, there...! Hope it makes you feel important!

[frylock]

81. well???

the suspense is killing me!

[Sancho]

87. Correct, Bernie and Hillary have very similar voting records. Bernie has been ineffective.

One difference is clear to me. Bernie's reputation was an ineffective obstructionist over many years in the House followed by the current Senate run.

In her time in the Senate, Hillary was much better at working for effective legislation that helped people. Even though many Bernie supporters won't admit it, he is almost unknown nationally even though he was in the House since 1990 followed by the current Senate run. That is partly because Bernie had few original bills that even got out of committee or caught on with anyone.

It's interesting that Hillary, Warren, and Grayson (for other examples) seem to have been more visible in a few years (and Grayson is in the Progressive caucus too) than Bernie was over many years. Warren and Grayson are also "loud mouths", but as members of the Democratic Party they have been better at moving legislation it appears. It takes a lot of time to go through hundreds of bills over the years, but that appears to be the picture. Hillary was very active in the Senate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grayson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
https://www.govtrack.us
http://correctrecord.org

[RufusTFirefly]

91. Chimps, Humans 96 Percent the Same, Gene Study Finds

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0831_050831_chimp_genes.html

[QC]

92. You win the thread!

[MoonRiver]

94. A psychic president!

I can get on board with that!