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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 07:54 AM Jul 2015

How the Clintons are using the Shock Doctrine on the issue of prison reform

Recently Bill Clinton came out with -well if not a mea culpa- then at least a mild admission that his policies put way too many people in prison. So much, in fact, that there wasn't enough money leftover in the budget for social programs...

But while it is definitely a wise call on the part of the Clintons and their advisers to "get ahead of the issue" before it bites them in the ass, they are really only telling a small part of the tragedy of the US's mass incarcerations, their role in it and the massive damage it has done disproportionately to the poor and minorities.

Over the last several decades the U.S. prison population has increased by over 400 percent. It began to escalate wildly with Ronald Reagan and his war of drugs, but continued its sharp rise under Clinton with his 1994 Crime Omnibus which included the three strikes and mandatory sentencing which have now been struck down by some courts as unconstitutional. And less you think that Hillary had no part in this, she was in fact a powerful lobbyist for the crimes bills both as a First Lady and then later as a NY Senator, saying:

“We need more police, we need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders. The three strikes and you’re out for violent offenders has to be part of the plan. We need more prisons to keep violent offenders for as long as it takes to keep them off the streets.”



WHY DO I SAY SHOCK DOCTRINE?

First, a reminder of what the Shock Doctrine is:
"The shock doctrine is a theory for explaining the way that force, stealth and crisis are used in implementing neoliberal economic policies such as privatization, deregulation and cuts to social services. "

The crisis facing mostly minorities today as a result of the unprecedented mass incarcerations and their ripple effects is now something that Hillary, as a candidate in 2016, is all fired up to tackle! Yes, you could say that it is yet another case of evolving, or you could say that it bears a strong resemblance to the other cases of Shock Doctrine we have seen that probably don't need mentioning. Still, there is something nauseating about seeing one of the architects of this misery now stand up as a champion of the very people that suffered the most, and use their own bloody bodies as bait to earn her votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

The effects of such high incarceration rates are also shown in other ways. For example, a woman who has been recently released from prison is ineligible for welfare in most states. She is not eligible for subsidized housing, and for Section 8 she has to wait two years before she can apply. In addition to finding housing, she also has to find employment, but most likely she can not find a job because she has a criminal record so no one wants to hire her. Essentially, a woman who has been recently released from prison comes into a society that is not prepared structurally or emotionally to welcome her back.

Marc Mauer, assistant director of the non-profit group Sentencing Project, has remarked that "[...] what we don't see are the ripple effects of what they mean: For the generation of black children today, there's almost an inevitable aspect of going to prison". For every mother that is incarcerated in the United States there are about another ten people (children, grandparents, community, etc.) that are directly affected.

In The New Jim Crow in 2010, legal scholar and advocate Michelle Alexander contended that the U.S. incarceration system worked to bar black men from voting. She wrote "there are more African Americans under correctional control -- in prison or jail, on probation or parole -- than were enslaved in 1850, a decade before the Civil War began". Alexander's work has drawn increased attention through 2011 and into 2013.

What is the effect of mass incarceration on urban black families?
http://urbanportal.org/issues/entry/what_is_the_effect_of_mass_incarceration_on_urban_black_families/

More than seven times as many people are incarcerated in the United States as in Europe. The main victims of the prison boom are minority, particularly African American, men, who, as sociologist Bruce Western has found, are eight times more likely to have served time in prison than white men. The effects of mass incarceration extend beyond the prisoner and his immediate experience of confinement, and can have a significant impact on the prisoner’s family. A slew of recent studies by Western and others suggests that the wave of mass incarceration contributes to the decline of families and the social fabric that binds them, leading to the further disintegration of already-disadvantaged inner-city neighborhoods.

182 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How the Clintons are using the Shock Doctrine on the issue of prison reform (Original Post) Bonobo Jul 2015 OP
K&R...n/t ms liberty Jul 2015 #1
Sigh..she said "violent crimes" more than once. Her stand was about violent crimes Sheepshank Jul 2015 #93
I wonder if she will address this FlatBaroque Jul 2015 #2
In the meantime we all can read The Full Text Of Hillary Clinton's Prison Reform Speech riversedge Jul 2015 #34
Yep. this is what FOX HATE NEWS does 24/7 underthematrix Jul 2015 #112
Legacies of the Clinton Administration Martin Eden Jul 2015 #3
Is Hillary Clinton answerable to her husband's administration? 6chars Jul 2015 #8
No, she's answerable to her own. Martin Eden Jul 2015 #16
Hillary lobbied for the Crime Omnibus in 1994. Bonobo Jul 2015 #19
K+ zentrum Jul 2015 #23
Your OP is bashing and disingenuous...look at Bernie's record in 1994! NOTHING on crime!! Sancho Jul 2015 #56
HRC sulphurdunn Jul 2015 #20
Silence is support zentrum Jul 2015 #24
Except she wasn't silent. She was an active lobbyist for the bill. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #29
Dead on. zentrum Jul 2015 #32
support is support lol she's guilty here. elehhhhna Jul 2015 #54
Totally agree. zentrum Jul 2015 #59
As was Bernie since he vote in favor or the bill Sheepshank Jul 2015 #131
Support is voting for it- as Bernie did. So there's that. bettyellen Jul 2015 #63
Did he lobby aggressively for it as well? Bonobo Jul 2015 #73
I seem to remember the phrase "two for the price of one" being tossed around a lot. winter is coming Jul 2015 #40
Of course she is, she was part of every bit of it arikara Jul 2015 #43
Certainly not when it's an inconvenience, as it is in this instance. frylock Jul 2015 #46
Do you think a strong person like her wouldn't have any effect on her husbands policies? nm rhett o rick Jul 2015 #96
the problem of prison reform is way beyond "the Clintons". procon Jul 2015 #4
It started with Reagan as I noted in the OP. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #5
And here we see the inextricable link between economic and social justice Fairgo Jul 2015 #6
When a business sector arises on the foundation of other people's misery FlatBaroque Jul 2015 #11
and yet she will get away with claiming to want to end mass incarceration Doctor_J Jul 2015 #7
To them, it's a greater virtue to have evolved to support those positions. frylock Jul 2015 #47
I have many concerns about the increases brer cat Jul 2015 #9
"“We need more police, we need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders. " Bonobo Jul 2015 #12
You still deliberately cherry pick to press an untrith Sheepshank Jul 2015 #90
It's a quote. deal with it. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #92
It's part of a quote....I am dealing with it by trying to insert some honesty Sheepshank Jul 2015 #97
Three Strikes. Bonobo Jul 2015 #100
*Another* hit piece ismnotwasm Jul 2015 #13
I agree. brer cat Jul 2015 #15
It burns you up, doesn't it. Bonobo Jul 2015 #17
This would have been a perfect opportunity to Correct the Record then, right? frylock Jul 2015 #48
Plez feel free to make your case. nm rhett o rick Jul 2015 #98
I knew a lot of people were going to prison LuvNewcastle Jul 2015 #10
Read The Full Text Of Hillary Clinton's Prison Reform Speech riversedge Jul 2015 #14
She's right. It's just she fails to mention she was one of the architects of the current mess. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #18
Anyone who cast a vote sulphurdunn Jul 2015 #21
Like Bernie fails to mention that he voted FOR the bills that created the current mess? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #111
Which ones in particular. TM99 Jul 2015 #155
You are becoming a parody of the intellectual left ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #160
Well, personal insults TM99 Jul 2015 #161
The parody of the intellectual left snark ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #165
I don't lay all blame on Clinton. TM99 Jul 2015 #166
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #168
Clinton wasn't a senator? TM99 Jul 2015 #169
I'm a quick study ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #171
You are welcome to make such a demand. TM99 Jul 2015 #172
I would have thought you'd be a bit gun shy splashing stuff from blogs ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #173
Thanks. so Bernie voted yes for these crime bills. riversedge Jul 2015 #162
Yes he did ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #167
talk is cheap questionseverything Jul 2015 #36
How the Bernie supporters are using "concern" for the poor and "minorities" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #22
Yes, because Bernie supporters can't possibly have real concern for the poor and minorities. Vattel Jul 2015 #25
Sucks having your own tactics used against you, doesn't it? Fumesucker Jul 2015 #26
Is that an admission? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #28
I don't think I've ever deleted a post on DU Fumesucker Jul 2015 #35
You post is unresponsive to my post ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #38
One candidate supported a policy that helped to severely damage the black community Fumesucker Jul 2015 #44
Still unresponsive to my post 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #51
I don't care if you think my posts are unresponsive to yours Fumesucker Jul 2015 #64
It took you this long to come up with that? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #75
this young man gets it questionseverything Jul 2015 #37
Some would argue, so does the woman in the first frame ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #39
The man in the first frame got it a long time ago and has consistently done so for decades Fumesucker Jul 2015 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author historylovr Jul 2015 #42
Respectfully, I will offer one more time ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #50
This message was self-deleted by its author historylovr Jul 2015 #55
He talked about the justice system and incarceration in his Madison speech BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #57
Less than 30 seconds in an hour long speech ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #58
If you disagree with the OP, make your case. nm rhett o rick Jul 2015 #99
Bernie supporters are trying to hang the mass incarceration of the poor and Black folks on HRC ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #106
Let me guess your point. It's not all the Clinton's fault. nm rhett o rick Jul 2015 #115
Well ... That would be a guess ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #117
If you really wanted to reduce the populations in prison in the USofA, I wouldn't vote rhett o rick Jul 2015 #119
We have one candidate ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #128
Besides, please explain what you mean by "status quo" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #137
A million people in jail who shouldn't be there Man from Pickens Jul 2015 #27
And according to the person quoted in my OP, that's 10 million affected. Bonobo Jul 2015 #30
It could be a case of act in haste, repent at leisure Ligyron Jul 2015 #31
OP hits out the park CTBlueboy Jul 2015 #33
"For profit" corrupts almost everything. CrispyQ Jul 2015 #41
K & R. Sponsor education and jobs creation not Prisons, as Bernie said. Appalling what this appalachiablue Jul 2015 #49
This OP is pretty weak sauce. JoePhilly Jul 2015 #52
She lobbied for the 1994 bill. Need a link, pal? Happy to oblige. Just ask. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #60
And Bernie voted "Yay". Oops you did it again! bettyellen Jul 2015 #62
Yes, he did. Along with Kweisi Mfume and the CBC. Bonobo Jul 2015 #66
Why... His vote is the Clintons fault now. Is Sanders really that weak? bettyellen Jul 2015 #69
It's nice that we seem to agree. Bonobo Jul 2015 #74
Omfg Sheepshank Jul 2015 #104
If you can organize that question into intelligible English, I will respond. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #107
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #114
. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #120
It is not nice to use facts like that. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #72
I love facts! Let's keep talking about them. Bonobo Jul 2015 #76
Yet here you are with one of your Hillary is a bad person posts about something you say she pushed hrmjustin Jul 2015 #77
She did push it. Bonobo Jul 2015 #78
Again you change the subject and bring it to iraq while we are talking about the 1994 crime bill. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #79
Look, nothing you have said absolves HER of responsibility. Bonobo Jul 2015 #80
If you actually cared about this issue you would have added the fact in your op that Sanders hrmjustin Jul 2015 #81
Yeah, it's all about ME, Justin. Bonobo Jul 2015 #82
It is about you because it is your op. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #83
Keep making it personal. Shows your class or lack thereof. nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #84
You can dish out criticism but you can't take it that is the lack of class. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #85
I criticized a political candidate on a Political Discussion Board. Bonobo Jul 2015 #86
And if you were honest you would have mentioned your candidate played a part in this law in your hrmjustin Jul 2015 #87
Got it! You are calling me dishonest! Nice defense and really classy! Bonobo Jul 2015 #88
You could just say, Justin you have a point that Sanders had a part in this and I should have hrmjustin Jul 2015 #89
I didn't lose any argument. You made it personal. Here is your logic: Bonobo Jul 2015 #91
Where in your op did you mention Sanders? hrmjustin Jul 2015 #94
I didn't. In fact I didn't know Sanders had voted for it when I wrote the OP. Bonobo Jul 2015 #95
So basically you didn't do your homework. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #101
You never addressed Hillary's responsibility. You never ever do. Ever. Bonobo Jul 2015 #102
For the record that crime bill deserves criticism and those who pushed for it and voted for it hrmjustin Jul 2015 #103
That has nothing to do with "proving that I am concerned with the issue". Bonobo Jul 2015 #105
My suggestion to you is do your homework before you regularly scheduled OP about how hrmjustin Jul 2015 #108
I did enough homework to know that the historic law she and Bill ushered in Bonobo Jul 2015 #109
Try reading what I wrote please. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #110
And I said please try to deal with your candidate's actions and not attack me. Bonobo Jul 2015 #116
Again is it too much for you to read what i actually write? hrmjustin Jul 2015 #118
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #121
. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #122
You did a good job of what? Bonobo Jul 2015 #123
When are you going to start an op critisizing Sanders for his vote? hrmjustin Jul 2015 #124
When are you? nt Bonobo Jul 2015 #125
You are the one who started this topic. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #126
I am pissed at his 1/600th role. NOW...You know who wrote the bill? Bonobo Jul 2015 #127
I have no idea who wrote the bill. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #129
All the taking on this thread and you did not do enough research to find out who wrote it? Bonobo Jul 2015 #130
So basically you continue your Hillary is bad memd and minimize Sanders role. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #132
How many personal attacks is that now? Bonobo Jul 2015 #133
Again changing the subject is a sign that you are losing. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #134
I keep talking about politicians and you keep talking about me. What is THAT a sign of? Bonobo Jul 2015 #136
I know you don't like her. We all know. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #138
You attacked me personally. Bonobo Jul 2015 #139
Can't wait. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #141
You will have to. Bonobo Jul 2015 #143
Lol. I shall endevor to give you something to complain about. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #146
Good luck trying to find something to attack Bernie over. Bonobo Jul 2015 #147
I love Sanders. Lol you are wrong if you think otherwise. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #149
Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #150
It's not personal or many. Your omission of Sanders vote costed you credibility. bettyellen Jul 2015 #170
Every vote on every bill counts. It counts big. Sheepshank Jul 2015 #142
I didn't say it didn't matter. The opposite in fact. Bonobo Jul 2015 #145
You are the one that said Bernies votes were not as important as others' votes Sheepshank Jul 2015 #148
I said they were EQUALLY important. Bonobo Jul 2015 #151
That's not how I read your post 130 Sheepshank Jul 2015 #154
How do you interpret "1/500"? Bonobo Jul 2015 #157
You make up a number out of thin air on a different post and think it has some value? Sheepshank Jul 2015 #158
435 congressmen + 100 senators = 535 Bonobo Jul 2015 #159
This message was self-deleted by its author Bonobo Jul 2015 #156
Jury Results oneshooter Jul 2015 #174
Sanders actually voted for it. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #70
Looks like this part of the thread did not go as you planned. JoePhilly Jul 2015 #177
"Whoever wrote this is a clown." Really. You don't have a response so you namecall? rhett o rick Jul 2015 #113
Read the sub-thread and get back to us. JoePhilly Jul 2015 #178
I wonder if this thread means the HRC Iraq war vote can be forgiven? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #180
youth with any drug convictions cannot legally receive Fed student aid... elehhhhna Jul 2015 #53
You know what's great about message boards? You can spin any narrative you wish ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #61
Well said! hrmjustin Jul 2015 #65
Don't worry ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #67
Well unfortunately facts get in the way of good old Hillary bashing. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #68
Sadly, you are right. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #71
did you see the Mia Farrow thread ? JI7 Jul 2015 #135
Nope. I haven't ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #140
now deleted JI7 Jul 2015 #144
I guess when shiny objects appear ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #152
What's interesting is that someone could wrote such venomous hatful things toward a woman and then bettyellen Jul 2015 #153
Yuuuup. Agschmid Jul 2015 #175
Unhealthy displays of anger, yet the ill will is completely forgotten bettyellen Jul 2015 #176
I get the sense that the blizzard of words in the OP is intneded to obscure ... JoePhilly Jul 2015 #179
And pointing that out somehow puts me in the tank for HRC. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #181
BIll Clinton and Janet Reno totally made a friend of mine into Public Enemy Number One. truedelphi Jul 2015 #163
Wow! Crazy. Just for trying to ease others suffering. Sick. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #164
Ahhh, it appears that I missed your, veiled, but main point of this OP ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #182
 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
93. Sigh..she said "violent crimes" more than once. Her stand was about violent crimes
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:30 PM
Jul 2015

The fact that incarcerations rose so dramatically for non violent crimes needs to addressed for sure but not as a Hillary blame game. That is completely disingenuous. Or maybe you k&r this for honesty sake to draw attention to the misleading hit piece?

riversedge

(70,242 posts)
34. In the meantime we all can read The Full Text Of Hillary Clinton's Prison Reform Speech
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:49 AM
Jul 2015




http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hillary-clinton-remarks-prison-reform-speech



Read The Full Text Of Hillary Clinton's Prison Reform Speech


By Daniel Strauss

April 29, 2015, 1:27 PM EDT 1272 views

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton delivered a major policy speech on prison reform and the criminal justice system amid a week of rioting in Baltimore.

Read the full text of Clinton's speech below:

Thank you so much. I am absolutely delighted to be back here at Columbia.....................

Because surely this is a time when our collective efforts to devise approaches to the problems that still afflict us is more important than ever. Indeed, it is a time for wisdom.

For yet again, the family of a young black man is grieving a life cut short.

Yet again, the streets of an American city are marred by violence. By shattered glass and shouts of anger and shows of force.

Yet again a community is reeling, its fault lines laid bare and its bonds of trust and respect frayed.

Yet again, brave police officers have been attacked in the line of duty.

What we’ve seen in Baltimore should, indeed does, tear at our soul.

And, from Ferguson to Staten Island to Baltimore, the patterns have become unmistakable and undeniable...............

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
112. Yep. this is what FOX HATE NEWS does 24/7
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:57 PM
Jul 2015

misrepresenting the facts. HRC said "violent offenders." It is very clear she's talking about "violent offenders". Here's a great article about the primary race. http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2015/07/bernie-hillaryand-joe.html?spref=tw

HRC will be fine. Right now it's hard to see that through all the noise.

Martin Eden

(12,870 posts)
3. Legacies of the Clinton Administration
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 08:29 AM
Jul 2015

Add this to "free" trade and repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.

Clinton's neoliberal policies were followed by GW's neoconservative policies. History will decide which was more destructive.

Martin Eden

(12,870 posts)
16. No, she's answerable to her own.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:14 AM
Jul 2015

I won't vote for Hillary Clinton in a Democratic primary because of her vote for the Iraq war and her cozy ties to big Wall Street donors.

But my post was intended to point out the legacy of president Bill Clinton's policies, some of which have lasting negative impact.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
19. Hillary lobbied for the Crime Omnibus in 1994.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:23 AM
Jul 2015

She also campaigned on anti-crime legislation as a Senator.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
56. Your OP is bashing and disingenuous...look at Bernie's record in 1994! NOTHING on crime!!
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 03:38 PM
Jul 2015

H.R. 695 (102nd): Guard and Reserve Family Protection Act of 1991
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jan 29, 1991
Referred to Committee: Jan 29, 1991
H.J.Res. 132 (102nd): To designate March 4, 1991, as “Vermont Bicentennial Day”.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Feb 19, 1991
Referred to Committee: Feb 19, 1991
H.R. 1353 (102nd): Entitled the “Taconic Mountains Protection Act of 1991”.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Mar 7, 1991
Referred to Committee: Mar 7, 1991
H.R. 2304 (102nd): To restore reductions in veterans benefits made by the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: May 9, 1991
Referred to Committee: May 9, 1991
H.R. 2373 (102nd): Escrow Deposit Act of 1991
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: May 16, 1991
Referred to Committee: May 16, 1991
H.R. 2439 (102nd): Cable Television Subscriber Protection Act of 1991
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: May 22, 1991
Referred to Committee: May 22, 1991
H.R. 2530 (102nd): National Health Care and Cost Containment Act
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jun 4, 1991
Referred to Committee: Jun 4, 1991
H.R. 4030 (102nd): Marsh-Billings National Historical Park Act
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Nov 26, 1991
Referred to Committee: Nov 26, 1991
H.Res. 359 (102nd): To express the sense of the House of Representatives regarding breast cancer.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Feb 7, 1992
Referred to Committee: Feb 7, 1992
H.R. 4206 (102nd): Cancer Registries Amendment Act
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Feb 7, 1992
Referred to Committee: Feb 7, 1992
H.R. 5131 (102nd): To amend the Solid Waste Disposal Act to regulate the manufacture, collection, and disposal of batteries.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: May 11, 1992
Referred to Committee: May 11, 1992
H.R. 5186 (102nd): To provide financing incentives to promote energy efficiency in residential buildings, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: May 14, 1992
Referred to Committee: May 14, 1992
H.R. 5207 (102nd): To provide that elections for President, Vice President, and members of the Congress be held on Saturday and Sunday.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: May 19, 1992
Referred to Committee: May 19, 1992
H.Res. 515 (102nd): Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives regarding the need for the President to seek the Senate’s advice and consent to ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jul 9, 1992
Referred to Committee: Jul 9, 1992
H.R. 6041 (102nd): Workplace Democracy Act of 1992
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Sep 25, 1992
Referred to Committee: Sep 25, 1992
H.Con.Res. 15 (103rd): Expressing the sense of the Congress regarding the need for the President to seek the Senate’s advice and consent to ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jan 6, 1993
Referred to Committee: Jan 6, 1993
H.R. 692 (103rd): Liveable Wage Act of 1993
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jan 27, 1993
Referred to Committee: Jan 27, 1993
H.R. 1299 (103rd): Resolution Trust Corporation Fair Funding Act of 1993
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Mar 10, 1993
Referred to Committee: Mar 10, 1993
H.R. 1791 (103rd): To restore reductions in veterans benefits made by the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Apr 21, 1993
Referred to Committee: Apr 21, 1993
H.R. 3323 (103rd): To provide that rates of pay for the President and Members of Congress shall be made equivalent to the rates of pay for their counterparts in the United Mexican States if legislation implementing the North American Free Trade Agreement
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Oct 20, 1993
Referred to Committee: Oct 20, 1993
H.R. 3370 (103rd): Milk Supply Management and Nutrition Assistance Act of 1993
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Oct 26, 1993
Referred to Committee: Oct 26, 1993
H.R. 3866 (103rd): To provide certain employee protection benefits for railroad employees.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Feb 11, 1994
Referred to Committee: Feb 11, 1994
H.R. 4024 (103rd): National Community Health Advisor Act
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Mar 11, 1994
Referred to Committee: Mar 11, 1994
H.R. 4618 (103rd): Bovine Growth Hormone Milk Act
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jun 21, 1994
Referred to Committee: Jun 21, 1994
H.R. 4669 (103rd): Bovine Growth Hormone Milk Labeling and Residue Test Act
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jun 28, 1994
Referred to Committee: Jun 28, 1994
H.R. 4710 (103rd): Fair International Standards in Trade (FIST) Act
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Jun 30, 1994
Referred to Committee: Jun 30, 1994
H.R. 5093 (103rd): To amend the Public Health Service Act to provide a 1-year extension of the applicability of certain provisions in the programs for block grants regarding mental health and substance abuse, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Sep 23, 1994
Referred to Committee: Sep 23, 1994
H.R. 5094 (103rd): To provide a 1-year extension of the applicability of the authority to transfer funds under the programs for block grants regarding mental health and substance abuse.
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Sep 23, 1994
Referred to Committee: Sep 23, 1994
H.R. 5126 (103rd): Workplace Democracy Act of 1992
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Sep 28, 1994
Referred to Committee: Sep 28, 1994
H.R. 5278 (103rd): Jobs and Investment Act of 1994
Sponsor: Sen. Bernard “Bernie” Sanders [I-VT]
Introduced: Oct 7, 1994
Referred to Committee: Oct 20, 1994

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
20. HRC
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:29 AM
Jul 2015

has been an uber member of the political elite for 25 years. She's been a first lady, a senator and a secretary of state. As to your question, she was not a passive first lady. She supported and is absolutely culpable for the positions of her husband. As to "making out her own positions," she has a long track record, and it is far more revealing than her campaign rhetoric.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
24. Silence is support
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:46 AM
Jul 2015

….in this case. Don't forget, she had all of 2008 when she ran the first time, to address this issue. And she didn't. She ran on the "Clinton record". And on her "experience" as an active, agentive and involved First Lady. She keeps trying to have it both ways.


zentrum

(9,865 posts)
32. Dead on.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:24 AM
Jul 2015

What I meant was that when she was silent during her candidacy, it amounted to consent. And when she wasn't silent, she was actively bringing up some past Bill Clinton policy as a personal credential.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
73. Did he lobby aggressively for it as well?
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:26 PM
Jul 2015

He shouldn't have supported it. True.

But he didn't lobby for it aggressively like Hillary.

She helped push it through and they got 189 members of the house to vote for it, along with the Congressional Black Caucus.

The Clintons had, and have, a lot of influence.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
40. I seem to remember the phrase "two for the price of one" being tossed around a lot.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:49 AM
Jul 2015

And people telling me in 2007 that Hillary's time as First Lady counted as political experience. Either it counts or it doesn't. She doesn't get to have it both ways.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
43. Of course she is, she was part of every bit of it
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 12:46 PM
Jul 2015

You would never be able to convince me that she and Bill didn't discuss ideas and made decisions together. She's no shrinking violet, does anyone imagine she was content picking out silverware and putting on teas as first lady? They were a team for pete's sake, she is a political animal and I remember hearing that she figured she should have been president not Bill but the country wasn't ready to accept a woman at that time.

I think the country is ready for a woman, just please not Hillary. The world had enough Clintons... along with Bushes and their destructive policies.

procon

(15,805 posts)
4. the problem of prison reform is way beyond "the Clintons".
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 08:32 AM
Jul 2015

Its disingenuous to try to shoehorn something as complex and well as entrenched over many decades, as this issue on to a single political figure. I acknowledge your partisanship, but to hold a serious discussion on how to institute thebroad range of interconnected reforms needed to modernize our outdated judicial and prison systems will require a far more realistic view than the one you are trying to promote here.

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
6. And here we see the inextricable link between economic and social justice
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 08:37 AM
Jul 2015

An industry that extracts profit from liberty...creates employment in misery...and expands its market in poverty.

FlatBaroque

(3,160 posts)
11. When a business sector arises on the foundation of other people's misery
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:04 AM
Jul 2015

misdeeds and misfortune, things are not going to turn out well for society as a whole.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
7. and yet she will get away with claiming to want to end mass incarceration
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 08:41 AM
Jul 2015

Just like with gay marriage and TPP and the middle east war. Her fans just don't want to hear the truth.

Rec

brer cat

(24,576 posts)
9. I have many concerns about the increases
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:01 AM
Jul 2015

in prison populations, and particularly how it impacts black families. However ignoring the fact that Mrs. Clinton was referring to violent crime, stated twice in that brief quote, while including a graph showing a huge increase in prison population due to non-violent crime makes this more of a hit piece than anything worthy of consideration or discussion.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
12. "“We need more police, we need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders. "
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:06 AM
Jul 2015

Dude, do you know what the Three Strikes law was about?

It wasn't restricted to violent crimes.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
90. You still deliberately cherry pick to press an untrith
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:24 PM
Jul 2015

But it's what you have been doing a lot of lately. HDS hit pieces in full effect on DU these last few days, and your contribution is exceptional.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
97. It's part of a quote....I am dealing with it by trying to insert some honesty
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:34 PM
Jul 2015

She said Violent crime...violent crimes, violent crimes. Non violent crimes went through the roof on your chart and must be addressed. but her earlier stand was on VIOLENT crimes.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
100. Three Strikes.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:35 PM
Jul 2015

The three-strikes law significantly increases the prison sentences of persons convicted of a felony who have been previously convicted of two or more violent crimes or serious felonies, and limits the ability of these offenders to receive a punishment other than a life sentence.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
13. *Another* hit piece
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:09 AM
Jul 2015

There is actually a bit more to the story here, as least as far as Hillary goes, but one actually has to go beyond wiki.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
17. It burns you up, doesn't it.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:21 AM
Jul 2015

It's not a hit piece.

Ot's the truth and I researched far beyond Wiki.

It is discussed all over.

Hillary isn't fooling anyone that actually reads or doesn't have their fingers stuck in their ears.

LuvNewcastle

(16,846 posts)
10. I knew a lot of people were going to prison
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:02 AM
Jul 2015

when he announced that he wanted to hire 100,000 cops. Hire a bunch of cops and have their funding dependent upon how many arrests they make and you're going to see an explosion in the prison population. Then legislatures keep making more laws so that more people can be arrested so that people will talk about a crime wave and want to hire more cops. It's a cycle that will continue until everybody is jailed or a jailer.

riversedge

(70,242 posts)
14. Read The Full Text Of Hillary Clinton's Prison Reform Speech
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:10 AM
Jul 2015

I think this problem of prison reform is one of the most serious issues the US faces:


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hillary-clinton-remarks-prison-reform-speech



Read The Full Text Of Hillary Clinton's Prison Reform Speech



By Daniel Strauss

April 29, 2015, 1:27 PM EDT 1272 views

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton delivered a major policy speech on prison reform and the criminal justice system amid a week of rioting in Baltimore.

Read the full text of Clinton's speech below:

Thank you so much. I am absolutely delighted to be back here at Columbia.....................

Because surely this is a time when our collective efforts to devise approaches to the problems that still afflict us is more important than ever. Indeed, it is a time for wisdom.

For yet again, the family of a young black man is grieving a life cut short.

Yet again, the streets of an American city are marred by violence. By shattered glass and shouts of anger and shows of force.

Yet again a community is reeling, its fault lines laid bare and its bonds of trust and respect frayed.

Yet again, brave police officers have been attacked in the line of duty.

What we’ve seen in Baltimore should, indeed does, tear at our soul.

And, from Ferguson to Staten Island to Baltimore, the patterns have become unmistakable and undeniable...............

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
21. Anyone who cast a vote
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:37 AM
Jul 2015

for a professional politician based upon campaign rhetoric rather than voting record is one of those customers P.T. Barnum described. I know, I've been one.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
155. Which ones in particular.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:06 AM
Jul 2015

You simply linked to a long list of crime bills.

I seriously doubt that you mean that his yay vote on Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2013 is to blame for the current mess.

So please be more specific so we can discuss those.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
160. You are becoming a parody of the intellectual left ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:30 AM
Jul 2015


Go ... TO ... THE ... LINK ... LOOK ... FOR ... "OMNIBUS CRIME BILL" (the fourth from the bottom) ... and for good measure, look at the second one from the bottom, the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. Both, have Bernie voting for the laws that created the maa=ss incarceration of the poor and PoC, that he now decries ... and his fans would hang upon First Lady (and non-legislator) Clinton's neck.
 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
161. Well, personal insults
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:52 AM
Jul 2015

and snarky bullshit are what passes for Clinton supporter's communications these days apparently.

Read the whole crime bill. Aspects were good. Other were bad. I accept that he had a bit role in the over all matter.

You and your ilk have decided that Clinton has none even when she is on record supporting some of the most odious parts such as three strikes for drug related offenses. Hillary fucking LOVED the Reagan war on drugs.

But laugh it up funny man. Shit like this is going to sink the Clinton ship yet again.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
165. The parody of the intellectual left snark ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:25 AM
Jul 2015

is completely appropriate, where 2 or 3 Bernie supporters attempting to hang responsibility for the mass incarceration of the poor and PoC, go to a link that lists Bernie's votes filtered for "crime" and listed in (reverse) chronological order, can't seem to find the part that says "Omnibus Crime Bill" and "Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994."

It is made even more appropriate, when Bernie supporters say stuff like:

I accept that he (Bernie) had a bit role in the over all matter.


In a discussion holding HRC (a non-member of Congress) to account for the actions of her President husband; but, the legislator that actually voted for the bill that is proximate caused the mass incarceration is termed, as "having a bit role in the over all matter" ... (noted: voting for something is having a bit role in the over all matter ... like ... perhaps, HRC's Iraq War vote?) ... Are you serious?

You and your ilk have decided that Clinton has none even when she is on record supporting some of the most odious parts such as three strikes for drug related offenses.


Let's see ... being on record supporting something, as the wife of the President vs. being on record VOTING for that thing, as a sitting legislator ... hmmm ... who &quot had) a bit role in the over all matter"? Me and my ilk understand just now ridiculous that is!

Hillary fucking LOVED the Reagan war on drugs.


Apparently, so did Bernie ... see the Omnibus Crime Bill and Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 votes.

But laugh it up funny man. Shit like this is going to sink the Clinton ship yet again.


Okay.

ETA: Oh yeah ... Now go alert on that!
 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
166. I don't lay all blame on Clinton.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:29 AM
Jul 2015

Do you have any legislation or public admissions to her mea culpa for supporting the war on drugs, the crimes bill, and mass incarceration?

I'll wait.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
168. Well ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:46 AM
Jul 2015

If I understand your request ... HRC is not a legislator, so nope; there is no legislation.

But as far as public admissions ... I do recall HRC speaking to the horror of mass incarceration ... about 2 months before Bernie.

No perhaps, you'll be so kind as to list all the (hell, any of the) legislation Bernie has sponsored and, MORE importantly, gotten passed that reversed the war on drugs, the crime bills and the mass incarceration? ... There must be a bunch ... he's been in Congress the entire time.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
169. Clinton wasn't a senator?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:46 AM
Jul 2015

So one public speech on the horrors. But nothing on how she and her husband contributed with the policies of the 1990's?


Voted YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program. (Mar 2007)
Voted YES on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime. (Jun 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining right of habeas corpus in Death Penalty Appeals. (Mar 1996)
Voted NO on making federal death penalty appeals harder. (Feb 1995)
Voted YES on replacing death penalty with life imprisonment. (Apr 1994)
Rated 78% by CURE, indicating pro-rehabilitation crime votes. (Dec 2000)
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes. (Apr 2001)
Require DNA testing for all federal executions. (Mar 2001)
Increase funding for "COPS ON THE BEAT" program. (Jan 2007)
Reduce recidivism by giving offenders a Second Chance. (Mar 2007)


http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
171. I'm a quick study ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:24 PM
Jul 2015

Please provide a link, a citation, a clue as to the votes that are represented here:


Voted YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program. (Mar 2007)
Voted YES on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime. (Jun 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining right of habeas corpus in Death Penalty Appeals. (Mar 1996)
Voted NO on making federal death penalty appeals harder. (Feb 1995)
Voted YES on replacing death penalty with life imprisonment. (Apr 1994)
Rated 78% by CURE, indicating pro-rehabilitation crime votes. (Dec 2000)
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes. (Apr 2001)
Require DNA testing for all federal executions. (Mar 2001)
Increase funding for "COPS ON THE BEAT" program. (Jan 2007)
Reduce recidivism by giving offenders a Second Chance. (Mar 2007)


http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm


No longer will a accept "facts" as facts until they are demonstrated as so. And without a reference, how is anyone to draw comparison between records?

Remember that is what started this whole thing "HRC is responsible for the mass incarceration of the poor and PoC!!!!!" ... and Bernie's vote for the stuff responsible for the mass incarceration of the poor and PoC (when discovered) became a bit role.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
172. You are welcome to make such a demand.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 09:15 PM
Jul 2015

I have provided you some facts to go on. Now research it yourself AND then provide your own for all of your assertions about Clinton.

You are big on snark, defense of Clinton, and very shy on facts.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
173. I would have thought you'd be a bit gun shy splashing stuff from blogs ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:14 PM
Jul 2015

without check it out. (That's how we got here) ... But I guess not.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
22. How the Bernie supporters are using "concern" for the poor and "minorities" ...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:43 AM
Jul 2015

to, transparently, score anti-HRC political points.

An apt sub-title to the OP.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
25. Yes, because Bernie supporters can't possibly have real concern for the poor and minorities.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:59 AM
Jul 2015

And pointing out a candidate's weak record on an issue that impacts the poor and minorities to convince people not to vote for that candidate is so transparently . . . blah blah blah.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
26. Sucks having your own tactics used against you, doesn't it?
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:00 AM
Jul 2015

I'm not referring to you specifically but to the HRC camp in general.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
28. Is that an admission? ...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:05 AM
Jul 2015

You had better self-delete before your team mates take you to the wood shed for loose lips.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
35. I don't think I've ever deleted a post on DU
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:10 AM
Jul 2015

You're more than welcome to search my posts for anything alertable, I think I've had either five or six hides total since DU3 and never had a time out so I'm not one of the more egregious offenders.



Bear in mind that the hyper incarceration of black men is a subject I've posted about on DU in the past, well before the current focus on the subject, here's one of my posts from 2012 and it's not the only one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1364125

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
38. You post is unresponsive to my post ...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:27 AM
Jul 2015

and, BTW, I wasn't questioning your concern for the hyper-incarceration of Black men. I was just commenting on the use of that issue to score, transparently thin, political points, is the OP does ... and you seemed to recognize what I was commenting on, before you came to your senses.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
44. One candidate supported a policy that helped to severely damage the black community
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 01:50 PM
Jul 2015

The other candidate did not support that policy and spoke out against it.

Why you appear to favor the first candidate I have no idea, it seems a bit ironic given your handle.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
64. I don't care if you think my posts are unresponsive to yours
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:07 PM
Jul 2015

Pointing out that both sides are doing the same thing is not an admission of anything except both sides are engaging in the same behavior.



Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
45. The man in the first frame got it a long time ago and has consistently done so for decades
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 01:53 PM
Jul 2015

The woman on the other hand is a newcomer to "getting it" and arguably only because it is politically expedient for her to appear to "get it".

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #22)

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
50. Respectfully, I will offer one more time ...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jul 2015

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT BERNIE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK FOLKS. Nor, are we questioning Bernie's past or present social justice stances.

What I/we HAVE been/are saying is Bernie's clear concern/priority is economic justice, and taking on the oligarchy. Neither of those efforts address the matters that most directly affect my/our lives.

And his campaign's framing of the Black condition in economic terms, signals to me that his policy efforts to address the sorry treatment of PoC will be focused on economics, with little time or effort spent on other things.

I don't know how to make it more clear.



Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #50)

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
57. He talked about the justice system and incarceration in his Madison speech
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 04:54 PM
Jul 2015

He talks about police brutality and mass incarceration in every longer event speech I have seen.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
106. Bernie supporters are trying to hang the mass incarceration of the poor and Black folks on HRC ...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:45 PM
Jul 2015

because her husband, the President at the time, signed the Omnibus Crime Bill ... well, it seems HRC, well, actually, Bill got some help. Guess how Bernie voted on that, and the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994?

https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders/20/crime#.VZconelRHIU

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
119. If you really wanted to reduce the populations in prison in the USofA, I wouldn't vote
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:05 AM
Jul 2015

for a candidate that represents the status quo. But maybe the status quo is just alright with you.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
128. We have one candidate ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:21 AM
Jul 2015

whose husband signed the law(s) proximate to the mass incarceration of poor and "minorities" ... we have another candidate that VOTED for the law(s) proximate to the mass incarceration of poor and "minorities" ... we have a third candidate that was in the politic farm system (i.e., the Baltimore City Council) and therefore unassociated with the law(s) proximate to the mass incarceration of poor and "minorities." (I'm not going to go into "broken windows" here)

Both candidates are denouncing the mass incarceration of poor and "minorities"; but, this OP (and those seeking to come to its ahistoric defense) only hold one candidate to account for their indirect association to the laws; while, neglecting to mention the other candidate's direct association.

Funny that, huh?

BTW, what candidate do you have me voting for? ...

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
137. Besides, please explain what you mean by "status quo" ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:43 AM
Jul 2015

All of the candidates running for the Democratic nomination for President have platforms that calls for changes to the current state (in this case the end to the mass incarceration of the poor and PoC); but, then again, all of the candidates advocate implementing these changes within the current political structure ... so arguably, each of the candidates are either, in opposition to the status quo (though perhaps to differing degree), or all of the candidates stand for the status quo.

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
27. A million people in jail who shouldn't be there
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:01 AM
Jul 2015

all to further the Clintons' ambitions

Will you, or someone you love, be the next sacrifice so they can add another zero to their net worth?

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
30. And according to the person quoted in my OP, that's 10 million affected.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:07 AM
Jul 2015

And when I say affected, I sorta mean "lives ruined or brought to near ruin"

...And those affects would be for multiple generations.

Repeat. Multiple generations. Think about that, Hilllary.

Ligyron

(7,633 posts)
31. It could be a case of act in haste, repent at leisure
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:22 AM
Jul 2015

and I'm cool with people attitudes and stances evolving, I know mine have.

As long as they evolve in the right (i.e., Left) direction, of course.

But, like many here, I'll vote for Bernie in the primary and support HRC in the general if it comes to it. One can only hope he drives her sincerely left and that she perhaps has evolved in the right, errr... I mean left direction after all.

 

CTBlueboy

(154 posts)
33. OP hits out the park
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jul 2015

Well this black guy sees thru the Clinton BS and will not have wool pull over his eyes

In addition to her support for Crimes Bill of 1994; I will never forget in 2008 she was attacking Obama for being against federal mandatory minimums and trying to label him as "soft on crime" The GOP used to do same thing with The Willie Horton ads shameful HRC tried to do the same.

I suggest every single person read Michelle Alexander "New Jim Crow"

If Her and Bill are really sincere , they would write or visit the families that were ruined because of their support for archaic legislation

CrispyQ

(36,478 posts)
41. "For profit" corrupts almost everything.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 12:28 PM
Jul 2015

Add to it our punitive culture and it makes for a really bad mix.

"there are more African Americans under correctional control -- in prison or jail, on probation or parole -- than were enslaved in 1850, a decade before the Civil War began".






Doing time together

In Doing Time Together, sociologist Megan Comfort examined how wives and girlfriends are affected by the incarceration of their male partners. She uncovered that the women’s experiences were characterized by costly travel to distant prison facilities, expensive collect calls, long waiting times during visitation hours, and disrespectful treatment by prison staff. Comfort argues that these experiences constitute a “secondary imprisonment” of the women who wait for and visit their incarcerated partners.


disrespectful treatment by prison staff.


And this sentiment regarding HRC is spot on.

...there is something nauseating about seeing one of the architects of this misery now stand up as a champion of the very people that suffered the most, and use their own bloody bodies as bait to earn her votes.


Kick. This should be at the top of the Greatest.

appalachiablue

(41,144 posts)
49. K & R. Sponsor education and jobs creation not Prisons, as Bernie said. Appalling what this
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:09 PM
Jul 2015

has done to individuals, families and communities in the last 20 years. End the neoliberal US PIC!

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
52. This OP is pretty weak sauce.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:39 PM
Jul 2015

First, Hillary had nothing to do with a bill passed in 1994.

Then, you jump forward, to a quote from Hillary about repeat VIOLENT offenders.

Given the number of words in the OP, this quote from Hillary about repeat violent offenders was really the best one you could come up with?

It doesn't really sell your point.

But who cares. One quote about repeat violent offenders, clearly makes Hillary an ARCHITECT of the Prison Industrial Complex. Hell, she's responsible for the huge spike in minority incarceration, right?

Then, you have lots of stuff that has nothing to do with Hillary, positioned as if it does.

Whoever wrote this is a clown.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
66. Yes, he did. Along with Kweisi Mfume and the CBC.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:13 PM
Jul 2015

The Clintons were very successful in their lobbying.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
74. It's nice that we seem to agree.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:28 PM
Jul 2015

It looks like we both think it was a horrible bill that the Clinton administration rammed through.

Sanders was responsible for his own vote, no doubt.

Was Hillary responsible for her lobbying? If so, I guess you can't really object to the OP.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
104. Omfg
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:42 PM
Jul 2015

You are saying that Bernie was stupid enough to follow a Clinton lobby machine? Do you realize on how many levels of stupid this isn't what happened when Bernie voted? At the very bottom of the stupid list is that Bernie cannot think for himself...is that what you are trying to say?

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
76. I love facts! Let's keep talking about them.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:31 PM
Jul 2015

We seem to agree that the Crime Omnibus that the Clintons pushed was a terrible thing that has destroyed millions of live needlessly.

A nice bookend, domestically, to her and Bill's destroying the loves of so many people of color overseas as well.

Can't blame THAT one on Bernie, even in part/

Oooops, facts.

500,000 dead Iraqi children under the age of 5 because of the Clinton's sanctions against Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
77. Yet here you are with one of your Hillary is a bad person posts about something you say she pushed
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:36 PM
Jul 2015

yet your candidate actually voted for the damn thing.

Yet i can't see that anywhere in your op.

But of course you need to change the subject.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
78. She did push it.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:44 PM
Jul 2015

I invite you to start an OP claiming that as a congressman voting with 188 other Dems, that HE is the one who bears the burden of responsibility for it as opposed to the Clintons.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
79. Again you change the subject and bring it to iraq while we are talking about the 1994 crime bill.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:48 PM
Jul 2015

Why is that?

Is it because we brought up the uncomfortable fact that the law you are decrying here was supported by your candidate?

I am sorry this fact was brought up to you. Clearly it made you uncomfortable and you had to change the subject.

Cheers Bonobo.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
80. Look, nothing you have said absolves HER of responsibility.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:52 PM
Jul 2015

If the best you can do is say that Sanders shares some responsibility, I will agree that he shares approximately 1/500-600th of the responsibility of the Clintons.

But it is a very weak argument and makes it clear that you agree with the premise that she is now reaping the Shock Doctrine rewards of the hell she helped create.

If she had any class, she would comment that she had a big role in the what Bill just recently admitted he was wrong in.

Where are YOUR ethical beliefs, Justin? Do they just go away when you are asked to reflect on what YOUR candidate does?

Changing the subject? No, the subject for me is Hillary's 1) Lack of ethics and 2) Lack of taking responsibility for 1)

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
81. If you actually cared about this issue you would have added the fact in your op that Sanders
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:02 PM
Jul 2015

voted for it. You would have denounced his vote.

And he is more guilty because he was an elected official and voted for it. She may have pushed it but Sanders is more guilty because he could of stood on principle and stopped this.

No this was not about the issue but this was about bashing Hillary.

But you got called out with facts and your responses show you don't like that.



And for your info I actually got off my ass to protest Hillary, chuck Schumer, and my congressman vito Fossela when they voted for the war. I protested in several marches in DC and NY.

And i lost cousin in the war so I know what the horrors of the war was. I suffered them with the pain of losing Louis.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
82. Yeah, it's all about ME, Justin.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:05 PM
Jul 2015

I can see why you keep wanting to say that it is about me, that I don't REALLY care...

But I can't imagine what or why you think that has anything to do with the election that is going to choose a POTUS...

I can't imagine how you think that -even if you could show that I don't REALLY care about the deaths and destruction of millions of people - that that actually matters wrt the choosing of someone ethically suitable to being the leader of the country.

My suggestion? Stop trying to defend Hillary by trying to impugn my motives.

How about that?

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
83. It is about you because it is your op.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:08 PM
Jul 2015

And if you actually were concerned and pissed about this issue you would have been honest and mentioned the fact your candidate supported this.

But you didn't because you wanted this to be all about that evil Hillary.

I know you are upset i am using a fact against your op but facts are facts.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
86. I criticized a political candidate on a Political Discussion Board.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:14 PM
Jul 2015

You are trying to make a point -some point - that I don't really care about the issue.

That is low and personal.

And wrong.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
87. And if you were honest you would have mentioned your candidate played a part in this law in your
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:15 PM
Jul 2015

Op.

But you didn't and when it was pointed out to you, you act petulant.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
89. You could just say, Justin you have a point that Sanders had a part in this and I should have
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:23 PM
Jul 2015

criticized him in my op. That would be honest.

But when challenged you are acting like I committed a crime for doing so and cha ge the subject.

That is a sign you lost the argument.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
91. I didn't lose any argument. You made it personal. Here is your logic:
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:27 PM
Jul 2015

HRMJustin "Your criticism of Hillary is not valid because: A). Bernie voted for it and B) Because you don't REALLY care."

I addressed Bernie's vote for it and stated outright he bears some responsibility.

Then you doubled down on personal attacks on me as if that has ANYTHING to do with Hillary's responsibility.

If you were honest, you might have said: "You know what? Hillary WAS wrong to push that bill. But Bernie was too."

Did you say that? I didn't see it. What I saw was an attack on my integrity and a double down by calling me petulant for not accepting a personal attack.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
95. I didn't. In fact I didn't know Sanders had voted for it when I wrote the OP.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:33 PM
Jul 2015

When it was brought up, I acknowledged it.

When you brought it up, I acknowledged it and suggested you write an OP about it.

That doesn't justify your personal attacks or make them relevant.

You have shown what you're made of, Justin.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
101. So basically you didn't do your homework.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:36 PM
Jul 2015

Basically it was attacking Hillary and not checking the facts before I do it.

And sir i took you on and did very well. Your responses are testimony to that.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
102. You never addressed Hillary's responsibility. You never ever do. Ever.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:39 PM
Jul 2015

What YOU did was make it about me. You think that my not doing my homework absolves Hillary of her role?

If you are proud of that, you are doubling down on a rather disgusting personal trait.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
103. For the record that crime bill deserves criticism and those who pushed for it and voted for it
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:41 PM
Jul 2015

deserve criticism.

Now if you are truly concerned about this isxue you would start an op condemning Sanders vote on this issue.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
105. That has nothing to do with "proving that I am concerned with the issue".
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:44 PM
Jul 2015

If you looked, you would see I have written about the growing prison industry before on DU, many years ago.

It is an issue I care very much about.

And you continue to have this bizarre belief that my PERSONAL CONVICTION about something is somehow a defense of Hillary's vote.

My suggestion is that you leave your personal attacks out of your responses, it makes YOU look emotional and stridently petulant yourself.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
108. My suggestion to you is do your homework before you regularly scheduled OP about how
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:46 PM
Jul 2015

bad Hillary is.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
109. I did enough homework to know that the historic law she and Bill ushered in
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:49 PM
Jul 2015

was massively damaging.

That is enough homework.

The BEST you can say is that I should equally oppose Bernie for it.

THAT though is not a defense of the massive crime law that the Clintons gave us that had caused so much damage.

My homework has nothing to do with it.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
110. Try reading what I wrote please.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:52 PM
Jul 2015

I said write an op critisizing Sanders for voting for it.


And if you did your homework you would know Sanders voted for it.

You just said you have been posting about this for years so one would assume someone as knowledgeable as you would have known this.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
116. And I said please try to deal with your candidate's actions and not attack me.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:02 AM
Jul 2015

You may have revealed that I -gasp - learned something on DU about Sanders making a bad vote.

But what you have dealt with most dishonestly and rudely is in trying to absolve Hillary of her very large role in the mass incarceration of Americans.

That, Justin, has literally nothing to do with me. A fact you continue to ignore.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
118. Again is it too much for you to read what i actually write?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:04 AM
Jul 2015

I never absolved her.

I challemged you and did a damn good job of it and you could not take it.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
123. You did a good job of what?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:09 AM
Jul 2015

When you mentioned Sander's vote (not the first person to do it in this thread btw) I acknowledged it. What else could you possibly expect?

I have read every word you have written here and I see, over and over, personal attacks.

But let's keep this going, Justin. I am happy to keep this kicked.

Hillary AND Bill are essentially doing what Halliburton did. They destroy and then they capitalize off that destruction.

Create more criminals, create more prisons, create more police, then rebuild that which you have helped destroy.

Waiting for your next personal attack.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
126. You are the one who started this topic.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:17 AM
Jul 2015

You are the one pissed at the Clintons for giving us this law.

You now know your candidate supported this law.

Since you were so pissed at the Clintons you should be pissed at Sanders.

Be fair and criticize fairly.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
127. I am pissed at his 1/600th role. NOW...You know who wrote the bill?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:18 AM
Jul 2015

Let's see if you can answer without googling, smart guy.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
129. I have no idea who wrote the bill.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:22 AM
Jul 2015

Criticize Hillary. Your good at it.

Once and awhikd she deserves it too.

Your candidate voted for it and you want to minimize that.

I am not minimizing Hillary's role in this.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
130. All the taking on this thread and you did not do enough research to find out who wrote it?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:25 AM
Jul 2015

I will gladly educate you.

Joe Biden.

And I will not write an OP on him or the other several hundred people who were wrong enough to trust a newly elected Democratic president on this turd of a Crime Omnibus.

Yes, the lion's portion of blame falls on Bill and Hillary and nothing you can say will convince anyone that Sanders tiny vote carries the same level of responsibility as the duo of Bill and Hillary.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
132. So basically you continue your Hillary is bad memd and minimize Sanders role.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:28 AM
Jul 2015

Forgive me if I don't take you at your word that your motives here are pure.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
133. How many personal attacks is that now?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:33 AM
Jul 2015

I understand that you cannot possibly accept the idea that yes, Hillary is responsible for her actions.

Whether you are apologizing for her AUMF vote by saying she (and you) are from NY, so she was representing her constituents (against IRAQ!? Why?)

or excusing her tacit approval of the deaths of 500,000 children in Iraq for her husband's sanctions... (Wait, I thought she was a strong person and part of a team?)

or excusing her lobbying for a crime bill personally that increased the federal prison population by 650,000 or so during their administration (as opposed to about 400,000 during Reagan's reign!)

Yes, you will forgive me if I question YOUR sincerity... there is no comparison to be made between Hillary's hawkishness and the amount of damage she has done...None at all.



 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
134. Again changing the subject is a sign that you are losing.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:35 AM
Jul 2015

And i answered you already 8n her vote on the Iraq war.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
136. I keep talking about politicians and you keep talking about me. What is THAT a sign of?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:39 AM
Jul 2015

Let's keep this kicked!

I am supporting my candidate by pointing out what a bad, bad choice Hillary would be.

She would be a vote for war, a vote for the prison system, and a vote for Wall street.

I will blast her anywhere, any way I can. I consider it a service to the Democratic Party to strengthen those that represent it best.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
138. I know you don't like her. We all know.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:44 AM
Jul 2015


I challenged you and you didn't like it. It showed.

It has been fun but I think we are done.

Cheers.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
147. Good luck trying to find something to attack Bernie over.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:54 AM
Jul 2015

You will need it.

Expect me to NOT attack you in the personal way you have done to me, though.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
149. I love Sanders. Lol you are wrong if you think otherwise.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:56 AM
Jul 2015

And you don't take criticism well.

You should reflect on thst.

Response to hrmjustin (Reply #149)

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
170. It's not personal or many. Your omission of Sanders vote costed you credibility.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:09 PM
Jul 2015

loads of credibility. That's not personal.

And it's pretty amusing to see you contend Sanders votes actually do not matter!

I see lots of linking back to you saying that in the future.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
142. Every vote on every bill counts. It counts big.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:50 AM
Jul 2015

We hear that all the time when it comes to lambasting Clintons voting records. Now it doesn't matter because it's your precious? That seems a little off.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
145. I didn't say it didn't matter. The opposite in fact.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:52 AM
Jul 2015

The "off" smell might be the bullshit being flung all over to distract from Hillary's outsized role in this.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
148. You are the one that said Bernies votes were not as important as others' votes
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:55 AM
Jul 2015

Just trying to keep it honest. Now you appear to agree. Truly dizzying.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
157. How do you interpret "1/500"?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:11 AM
Jul 2015

Does it mean that the "1" has a higher value than the other "1's" in the fraction?

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
158. You make up a number out of thin air on a different post and think it has some value?
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:14 AM
Jul 2015

Not sure how your personal rating system ranks as having value....especially when later on you admitted that all votes count and all votes are important.

Response to Bonobo (Reply #151)

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
174. Jury Results
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:24 PM
Jul 2015

On Sat Jul 4, 2015, 07:18 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Keep making it personal. Shows your class or lack thereof. nt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=424173

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling another DU'we classless, out of line and over the top especially since up to this point this sub thread had stayed civil. Please vote to hide this uncalled for insult, thank you.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jul 4, 2015, 07:23 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's not personal.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I have seen DU members call others"assholes" and a jury let it slide. Because of that, this is a no brainer.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You simply have to shrug this stuff off. It's the internet, you can't be alerting on every little slight.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: hrmjustin, you have to stop alerting on every little thing
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
177. Looks like this part of the thread did not go as you planned.
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 11:07 AM
Jul 2015

When you provide the link to Hillary lobbying for this bill ... please also include one with Bernie actually voting for this bill.

Thanks.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
113. "Whoever wrote this is a clown." Really. You don't have a response so you namecall?
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 11:58 PM
Jul 2015

If you have a case against the OP, why don't you put it forward?

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
178. Read the sub-thread and get back to us.
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 11:09 AM
Jul 2015

The OP has made a weak attempt to blame Hillary for a 1994 law ... a law that Bernie actually voter for.

Now ... if THAT makes Hillary responsible, Bernie is just as responsible, if not more so.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
53. youth with any drug convictions cannot legally receive Fed student aid...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 02:49 PM
Jul 2015

Loans or grants. Incredibly punitive for those whose parents can't afford good legal representation. More tough on crime b.s.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
61. You know what's great about message boards? You can spin any narrative you wish ...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:05 PM
Jul 2015

and those that agree with that narrative, will just accept it ... and on most occasions, no one will look into the claim.

Here we have HRC being responsible for the mass Black incarceration created by the Omnibus Crime Bill that her husband signed ... because she may, or may not, have promoted it (I haven't found much on that point); but, you what I DID find?

I seems HRC ... well, Bill ... had a little help with creating the wave ... Guess who voted "YEA" on, both, the Onmibus Crime Bill of 1994 AND the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994?

That's right ... Bernie.

https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders/20/crime#.VZconelRHIU

Oops!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
67. Don't worry ...
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:19 PM
Jul 2015

I won't go with the "So he was for the mass incarceration of Black folks, before he is against it" line that is begging to be put out there.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
68. Well unfortunately facts get in the way of good old Hillary bashing.
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:20 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Fri Jul 3, 2015, 10:50 PM - Edit history (1)

This is what DU and this forum has become.

JI7

(89,252 posts)
144. now deleted
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:51 AM
Jul 2015

but it was about how great the mia farrow's support for sanders was . but before that he thought differently of her as shown in some of the replies in that thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251420631

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
152. I guess when shiny objects appear ...
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:01 AM
Jul 2015

some just grasp onto them. But those that do that tend to have very short attention spans and short term memory issues.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
153. What's interesting is that someone could wrote such venomous hatful things toward a woman and then
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:02 AM
Jul 2015

Last edited Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Apparently completely forget they did that. And then used that same woman as an endorsement?

That says something pretty disturbing to me. Incredible.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
176. Unhealthy displays of anger, yet the ill will is completely forgotten
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:12 AM
Jul 2015

When they need something from that person!
Creepy shit.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
179. I get the sense that the blizzard of words in the OP is intneded to obscure ...
Sun Jul 5, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jul 2015

... the simple fact that Bernie voted YES on this legislation.

And as you correctly note, very few of those jumping on the anti-Hillary band wagon have any clue on that point.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
163. BIll Clinton and Janet Reno totally made a friend of mine into Public Enemy Number One.
Sat Jul 4, 2015, 03:18 AM
Jul 2015

Lynnette Shaw was one of a handful of activists responsible for Prop 215, which gave Californians the right to possess medicinal cannabis.

Shaw opened the first medicinal dispensary in Fairfax, Calif. Over the years, the business was audited numerous times by the IRS, yet Bill and Janet continually went after her, finally succeeding in taking away her car, and they also zeroed out her Social Security funds. She is to my knowledge the only American who has ever had their Social Security funds zeroed out. I mean, there have been cartel folks that have been caught and they didn't get treated in that manner. Because of court decisions that have recently gone more favorably toward other medicinal cannabis activists, Lynnette now believes that she will have her Social Security funds restored.

But neither Clinton will ever get any approval or any vote from me.

I am pretty confidant that Hillary will not be the Primary winner - she couldn't win in 2008, and she won't pull that off next year either.

Bill got away with a great deal during his two terms, in large part because the internet was not as effective during those years in disseminating information. Most of us progressives are hugely disappointed in Obama, and we now know & understand that both Bill and Obama are all about the quid pro quo, that will keep both families very very wealthy, come what may, during their "retirement" years.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
182. Ahhh, it appears that I missed your, veiled, but main point of this OP ...
Mon Jul 6, 2015, 08:23 AM
Jul 2015

(seriously, the facts got in the way) ...

You were attempting to use the mass incarceration thing to imply that HRC is racist, right?

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