Bernie v. Hillary.

[rateyes]

It has been pointed out here that Hillary and Bernie agreed 93% of the time while in the Senate together. Therefore, I think it important, as we choose a nominee, to see where these two differed the other 7% of the time.

TPP and Fast track- Bernie against. Hillary not committed either way, though she did call the TPP the gold standard in trade deals at one point.

Breaking up the Big Banks- Bernie says do it, that too big to fail is too big to exist. Hillary refused to answer that question recently. It seems unlikely that she is in favor of this, however. She did support the repeal of Glass-Steagall, which Bernie opposed.

XL pipeline- Bernie opposed. Hillary has not given a definitive answer, but did indicate she leans toward approval.

Gun Control - Bernie has not supported some of the tougher restrictions on guns. Hillary favors tougher restrictions.

Gay Rights- Bernie voted against DOMA while Hillary favored DOMA. More recently, both have said they are glad gay marriage is now legal in all 50 states.

Citizens United- Bernie has called for a constitutional amendment to overturn it. Hillary has not gone that far, but says it might come to that.

Minimum Wage- Bernie in favor of raising it to $15 per hour. Clinton says she favors raising minimum wage, but doesn't seem to want to go that far.

Social Security- Bernie for lifting the cap and expanding Social Security. Hillary has indicated she might agree to tax hikes and reduced benefits.

Healthcare- Bernie for single payer. Hillary has said that she never wanted to go that far, favors Obamacare as it is.

Iraq War. Bernie against. Hillary voted to authorize.

Patriot act- Bernie voted no. Hillary voted to reauthorize.

[DanTex]

1. Hillary: can win the general election. Bernie: not so much.

[DanTex]

9. This is wishful thinking. I really don't see independent voters going for Bernie.

The country just isn't as liberal as you and I would want it to be. A recent Gallup poll found that only 48% of Americans would consider voting for a socialist. Given that a GOP presidency would be a disaster, nominating someone with a built-in cap of 48% of the electorate is a really poor strategy.

[DanTex]

11. An 800-person sample gives a margin of error of about 3 or 4 percent.

This isn't some big mystery, it's basic statistics.

[Le Taz Hot]

15. I was with you right up until this:

"Progressives . . . decides to sit home again.

We're progressives. We're activists. We NEVER stay home on election day. We may not vote for the corporate-selected "Democrat" but we vote. ALWAYS.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Excellent synopsis, thanks! nt

[arcane1]

3. What are the actual votes they differed on? Does anyone have that?

I suppose my lazy ass could compile it myself

[LWolf]

4. One very clear difference

that I think means something is that Bernie doesn't hesitate to declare a position on most issues, while Hillary avoids making those statements. Bernie is clear, where Hillary is vague. Triangulation involves being vague, but I think voters like clarity.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. A president needs to be forthright

A president needs to have a view on policies. How can the executive branch function without decisiveness?

[Man from Pickens]

5. what that stat really means

> It has been pointed out here that Hillary and Bernie agreed 93% of the time while in the Senate together.

is that the vast majority of votes in the Senate are party-line votes

the two couldn't be farther apart on the most important issues of the day, and where she has changed her policies to match his, they couldn't be farther apart on credibility

[BrotherIvan]

7. +1

The most important issues are what we should be looking at. That is the difference between a conservative and a liberal Democrat. I am actually surprised at the 93%. I would think that a "liberal" "progressive" would be much higher.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KeQod1WZYXMJ:blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpolitics/2009/07/how_blue_are_the_blue_dog_demo.php+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Congressional Quarterly's vote study for the first half of 2009 is in the books, and finds that House Democrats overall supported Barack Obama 91.1 percent of the time in which the President stated his clear policy preference on legislation that received a floor vote.

But what about the Blue Dog Democrats? How frequently did they part ways from the President?

More than a quarter of the Democratic Upper Midwestern delegation (4 of 15) belongs to the Blue Dog coalition: Collin Peterson (MN-07), Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (SD-AL), Earl Pomeroy (ND-AL), and Leonard Boswell (IA-03).

The 52-member coalition touts itself as fiscally conservative and representing the center of the House. Blue Dogs also claim to represent the mainstream values of the American public and are "dedicated to a core set of beliefs that transcend partisan politics."

Blue Dogs did indeed show less support for their President's policy preferences than House Democrats as a whole, but not by a substantial amount: Blue Dogs still voted in accord with President Obama 85.7 percent of the time (just 5.4 percentage points less than House Democrats overall).

[dreamnightwind]

8. Yes, excellent points

and unfortunately, not even voting records are a reliable measure of where they stand.

I don't fully understand how it works, but there is a lot of "vote switching" and certain people who have higher office ambitions or constituents they need to not offend are, in some circumstances, given permission (I think by their party leader in whatever house they're in, in the case of Bernie and Hillary that would be (o would have been in Hillary's case) Harry Reid) to cast CYA votes.

I think the circumstances for this are things like they have the votes and can allow a few people to defect for appearances sake, or they don't have the votes and defection is also allowed.

Sounds like tin foil hat stuff, but it's all too real, voting records are not the last word, you have to really find out where a candidate stands on an issue and not just look at their votes. You can sometimes watch this happen in real time on C-SPAN, the votes just start changing near the end of the process as people with permission are allowed to change their votes, though it isn't just done that way, they are also allowed to initially vote a certain side and no actual changing of their vote will happen. Not the best explanation, sorry, but it's real and we need to be aware of it.

Re the TPP, I think people give Hillary way too much slack when they say she has not committed one way or another but appears to be for it. She is absolutely for it, and this kind of agreement is her very political essence. We shouldn't let her get away with appearing to not take a stand on it, she's been instrumental in its creation and promotion, she just does her work behind the scenes out of the eye of the voters but her corporate backers know she is on their side. She might play the game of well, I like it but there are a few things I don't like about it, to escape the wrath of the voters, but it's that kind of disingenuous positioning that corporate Democrats use to win elections and work against our interests at the same time, not good enough.

These two candidates are not similar at all, the 93% thing is a joke, as you pointed out. The choice could not be clearer.

[99Forever]

14. Exactly.

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. True dat.

[JaneyVee]

16. Hillary has 100% rating for protecting SocSec. And...

Did not support repeal of Steagall and didn't agree with DOMA.

[kath]

17. Thank you. Very informative!

[Scuba]

18. Bernie: A trillion bucks for infrastructure to create jobs. Hillary: Tax credits for corps ...

... that hire interns.