Bernie Sanders Parrots the NRA

[oberliner]

So why on the issue of guns is he parroting wholly inane, sometimes racist talking points from the National Rifle Association?

“If somebody has a gun and it falls into the hands of a murderer and the murderer kills somebody with a gun, do you hold the gun manufacturer responsible?” he said to Jake Tapper on CNN. “Not any more than you would hold a hammer company responsible if somebody beats somebody over the head with a hammer.”

Now listen to one of the most viciously stupid men in Congress, Representative Louis Gohmert of Texas, a mere few weeks after the Sandy Hook Massacre.

“I refuse to play the game of ‘assault weapon.’ That’s any weapon. It’s a hammer.”

Sanders was defending his vote for a 2005 law that protected gun manufacturers from lawsuits by victims of gun violence in a manner that big corporations in no other sector of the economy have received. It’s the same law that has prevented parents of the Aurora massacre victims from suing the manufacturer who didn’t think twice about selling 4,300 rounds to James Holmes via the Internet without so much as a cursory check. Whether marketing guns to kids or bullets designed specifically to kill cops, there is no getting around the fact that Sanders joined Blue Dog Democrats and right-wing Republicans in giving arms-dealer conglomerates a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Meanwhile, Sanders sells himself as an anti-corporate warrior who tells inconvenient truths, bows to no special interest, and abides no corporate malfeasance. Yet he still defends this breathtakingly corporatist vote. It’s a vote he’d be savaging in every speech, had it been Senator Chuck Schumer voting to provide blanket immunity for Wall Street or Senator Mitch McConnell voting to put a force field around Big Coal.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/12/bernie-sanders-parrots-the-nra.html

[House of Roberts]

1. Sounds to me as if Cliff Schecter thinks

Ford should be held liable if someone steals a Ford car, and runs over someone else and kills them.

[pscot]

5. I Fords were built for the expres spurpose of runing over people

and other living things you might have a point.

[beevul]

6. Why, empirically, does that make a lick of difference?

Explain that, and you might have a point.

[pscot]

7. Cars are for driving

Guns are for killing. It's a design feature.

[beevul]

10. So what?

Why does that make a difference?

On edit, guns are for accurately propelling a projectile at a target of the users choosing.

[Duckhunter935]

17. The key point is

"Users choosing"

[beevul]

21. Yup.

Talking point destroyed.

[MJkcj]

50. not really

You are missing the point that guns can be used to kill and that many many people are not responsible enough to handle guns safely.

Everyday children die because guns are left sitting out by parents, neighbors, relatives, friends etc. Curious children find them and kill themselves or others by "accident" due to the owners negligence. domestic abusers can get guns without a background check. just today I read the story of a woman who bought herself a gun for self protection and when her ex boyfriend broke into her apartment she tried to shoot him and he overpowered her, took away her gun purchased for self protection, and killed her with it. an all too common tale.

So we have no background checks, no permit required, no mandatory training and open carry in public places like libraries and public playgrounds and Kroger grocery stores.

Its harder to get a drivers license than it is to get a gun.

And the technology is there for smart guns but guess what, gun lobbists don't want that.

its a sickness in this country

[beevul]

92. Yes. Really.

You are missing the point that guns can be used to kill and that many many people are not responsible enough to handle guns safely.

Yet most guns are not being used to kill, and most gun owners are not killing anyone.

So we have no background checks..."

Um, yes, we do. Everytime a new firearm is sold, a background check on the buyer is done.

no permit required..."

Theres no permit required to own a lot of things. So what?

no mandatory training

Theres no mandatory training to own a car either.

And the technology is there for smart guns but guess what, gun lobbists don't want that.

I think most aren't willing to trust it.

[MJkcj]

40. You are now parroting the NRA

The NRA propaganda loves to argue that guns are not responsible for killing, that people kill, not guns.

The bill that would have allowed the sandy hook people to go after gun manufactures could have opened the doors to changing our gun culture but instead the NRA swiftly shut it down and since then we've had Isle Vista, the killing in Washington State high school,Charleston etc and hundreds of domestic violence victims and accidental shootings by negligent gun owners etc. We have sued car manufactures for ignoring safety measures, if we sued gun manufactures we'd have more smart gun technology. We sued cigarette companies and that was unheard of at the time. no good reason not to go after gun manufactures and lots of good reason to do it.

Bernie compared guns to baseball bats. This is the language that all the gun nuts love to use all day long. Deeply disturbing to see Bernie parrot it.

[beevul]

93. To posters like you, anything remotely pro-gun is "parroting the nra".

Bernie compared guns to baseball bats.

No, he compared the misuse of guns to the misuse of baseball bats.

Not exactly the same thing.

[Wilms]

16. Hunting is legal.

So is using a gun in self-defense. I'm not big on either, but I'm capable of noting distinctions.

[House of Roberts]

30. I don't agree that guns are built for the express purpose,

of killing people.

Sanders was defending his vote for a 2005 law that protected gun manufacturers from lawsuits by victims of gun violence in a manner that big corporations in no other sector of the economy have received.

Actually, I think the same legal principle would apply to Ford, as in my example, or any number of corporations whose products could be used to commit crimes of many types, not just murder. Bernie might have voted in favor of limiting their liability as well. It wasn't part of the bill.

A Taser, for example, could be used for self-defense, as could a gun, but I hardly think an argument could be easily made that one could be used for any other purpose, unlike a gun. I admit, when certain elements of society become intoxicated, all bets are off concerning the use intended by the manufacturer.

[Duckhunter935]

2. What's racist

About holding a criminal responsible for the crime and not allowing third party suits for a legal product. Do you sue the car manufacturers if a person gets runs over a person deliberately with it. Gun manufacturers can not sell to the general public, they must sell to a government authorized dealer. T

[oberliner]

3. Yes, I don't really see the racism

But it is the standard-issue NRA talking point on the topic.

[Duckhunter935]

22. What is that

Why should be able to sue a manufacturer that can only sell it's legal product to a government approved business. They do not have any culpability in what the third person end user does with that legal product. They have been the victim of SLAPP suits in the past. No SLAPP suits and no protection required.

[oberliner]

36. The whole "guns don't kill people, people do" or "should we ban knives and hammers?" line

That's a standard issue NRA argument.

[Duckhunter935]

38. even they are right some times

a stopped clock is right at least once a day you know.

[MJkcj]

43. But they are not right on this

[Duckhunter935]

45. On this we will just have to disagree

They are also right with their gun safety programs and training.

[MJkcj]

41. exactly!

thank you for explaining the obvious

[DanTex]

23. The borderline racism comes later in the article when he blames gun violence on gangs in

Chicago and LA. I don't think Bernie meant any racism by it, of course, but this is straight out of the NRA playbook, and "gangs in Chicago" is a way saying "it's the black people causing the problem."

BTW, the "gangs" talking point, like everything else the NRA says, is plainly false. Gangs account for something like 15 percent of homicides in the US. Even if we had no gangs at all, we would have a huge gun violence problem much greater than any other first-world country.

[Duckhunter935]

24. But do you agree

Gang killings are a much higher percentage in some areas? Gangs also are of all races and it is a problem. The biggest thing to help on this problem is end the drug war.

[DanTex]

25. Yes, but trying to blame "gangs" for gun violence is a false NRA talking point.

Like I said, gangs account for a small fraction of gun violence. Europe has gangs. Europe has drugs. But they don't have anywhere near the gun violence we have here.

Bernie has every right to parrot the NRA if he wants, but people concerned about gun violence are right to call him on it.

[Duckhunter935]

26. But a lot of our gun violence is gang related

And in certain areas it is more prevalent. We have a much higher gang population than Europe does and it is concentrated in certain areas just like the mobs were in the 20's and 30's. Then it was alcohol and gambling. People should not just stick there head in the sand and pretend it is not true, I am sorry.

[DanTex]

28. About 15 percent of it, according to stats. And I don't know that we have a

"much higher" gang population that Europe. There are plenty of gangs in London. But the homicide rate there is tiny. Why? Guns.

[Duckhunter935]

31. 15 percent total

Concentrated in a few areas makes those areas much higher. We also have a different culture than the English.

[randys1]

101. White america needs to be grateful that minority communities often direct their

violence against each other, which is normal human behavior, Black on Black crime and white on white.

But if the minority communities wanted to dish out violence against their oppressors, nobody would be happy, right

[arcane1]

52. Sanders=NRA; NRA=racist; therefore Sanders=racist. That's the scam they're trying to sell n/t

[HooptieWagon]

4. NRA rates Sanders an F.

So the "parroting the NRA" claim is hyperbole at best, and bullshit pulled out of ass at worst.

I don't have a problem with Sanders gun-control position. I agree with much of it, and find it refreshingly moderate and pragmatic, which might lead to some improvements in gun control.

Keep in mind, there's a whole lot of Democrats who own guns. Most of them would likely support reasonable legislation, but won't support an extremist position like repealing the 2A.

[wyldwolf]

8. Actually a D- , and he had a 'C' as recently as 2006

No one knows how the NRA grades. Sanders might score low because he isn't a Republican.

[pscot]

11. I agree

I think Hilary is making a mistake by going after guns. Al it accomplishes is turning of Democrats and Independents who either own them or are indifferent. She's not going to alter the shape of the debate, she won't be able to get gun contros enacted if she wins, I just don't think it's a good strategy.

[tularetom]

18. Her hands aren't exactly clean on guns either

Check this out:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/12/clinton-touts-her-experience-with-guns/

and this:

She'll back away from all that gun control talk if she gets the nomination, I guarantee. Too late for everybody who is buying it now of course.

[arcane1]

55. I'm sure she "evolved" since then.

Or something.

[HooptieWagon]

27. She's just pandering.

Even if every single Democratic voter supported a gun ban, and it was a popular vote victory, it couldn't happen. A Constitutional Amendment repeal is not done by popular vote, it requires the approval of 38 states. By the simple numbers, there aren't 38 states that will approve.
And gun-banners may not even be a majority in the Democratic Party.
Rather than tilting at windmills, the effort to reduce gun deaths is much better directed towards reasonable measures that might get Congressional approval. Eliminate the gun show loophole, require background checks for private sales, tighten the cracks in background checks....those might get support from many gun owners, and perhaps can get through Congress.

[pscot]

35. I don't think she's said anything about a ban of any kind

But this is an issue that can only hurt her. There's no up side to it. It just feeds the trolls; never a good idea.

[Duckhunter935]

39. She is for the assault weapons ban

however an assault weapon is actually determined?
I might be wrong but I think that is a BAN

I do not like bans using cosmetic features and the identical functioning weapon is not banned. The Sandy Hook rifle was not an assault weapon, according to the law.

[MJkcj]

47. Assualt Weapons ban was in effect

There was an assault weapons ban. Diane Feinstein authored the bill. It expired a few years just before sandy hook. It is my understanding that the weapon used in sandy hook was one of the ones that had been banned under the previously expired law.

[Duckhunter935]

49. And you would be incorrect

Yes the ban did sunset as it was not renewed. Connecticut however as a state keep the same assault weapons ban in place. It was in place during Sandy Hook. The weapon used was not classified as an assault weapon under either the 94 AWB or the Connecticut version that followed and was the same, just at the state level. That is the issue with cosmetic feature bans. Remove the bayonet lug and flash hider and it is no longer an assault weapon. Look at the NY SAFE compliant weapons, they just changed the pistol grip and now are fully legal. The function is the same as any of the banned ones.

[MJkcj]

53. thank you for the clarification

so basically the manufacture found a way around the ban, same functionality but changed just enough cosmetic features to avoid the ban. great, gotta love the gun culture.

[Duckhunter935]

56. No, they followed the law as passed

That is why I do not agree with cosmetic feature bans. If you want to do it correctly it must be function based.

[MJkcj]

60. OK so the law needs to be written better

doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a ban on weapons designed to kill mass numbers of 'targets" in short time. you don't need them for hunting.

[Duckhunter935]

62. So that would be all semi-automatic weapons

Pistol and rifle? How about pump action weapons?

[MJkcj]

65. yes

I believe the purpose of this particular law was to ban weapons that are designed to shoot mass numbers of people very rapidly. I would imagine the pistol and rifle would not qualify.

[Duckhunter935]

68. Why would they not qualify

Functionally the same, same rate of fire. Look up mad minute used in bolt action training.

[MJkcj]

71. omg

are you sure you are not an NRA troll?

[Duckhunter935]

73. Nope do not belong to the NRA

But I am former military with 30 years of experience in weapons and a democrat. Basic knowledge helps if you want to draft good legislation that will actually do as you intend. You know, you can be a democrat and own firearms.

[MJkcj]

77. Never said you cant be a good democrat and own a firearm

what i am looking for is regulation of firearms. Perhaps you could use your extensive knowledge to help the cause rather than play the poke holes at it game. Or perhaps you think the gun violence in this country is not a problem?

[Duckhunter935]

84. I have and so have many other

Firearms owners here. We are dismissed, insulted and call names like gun humper, ammosexual, delicate flower, future killer of course target shooting is only practicing to kill people. You have been very cordial and I appreciate that. Take a minute to just look at the two gun related groups.

[TeddyR]

70. And not only those weapons

But revolvers as well, since revolvers have been used in mass murders. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/weapons-and-mass-shootings/

[MJkcj]

48. i think you misunderstand

I don't believe Hillary is talking about repealing the 2nd amendment.
She is just hearing the many people who want sensible gun laws and are tired of the NRA controlled legislature making it easier and easier for any idiot to own a gun without any background check, permit or training required (as in recent legislature passed in texas, florida and georgia)
I am THRILLED to FINALLY see a candidate talk about taking on the NRA. I am not alone.

[MJkcj]

44. I am proud of Hillary for going after guns. Finally a politician willing to stand up to the NRA

There are more than a few of us out there who care deeply about this issue.

[frylock]

98. Will you be just as proud when she drops the subject after winning the nomination?

[oberliner]

14. That rating is from 2003. In 2006, they rated him a C-

I think since "On the Issues" still has the F from 2003 people repeat that like it's current, when in fact, it is very outdated.

These ratings also fluctuate wildly. They will take someone who they rate an A and knock them down to an F based on one vote or one statement.

[MJkcj]

42. And I find it "refreshing" to finally have a candidate stand up to the NRA

Hillary isn't supporting repealing the 2A. She is however the only candidate standing up to the NRA. Most Americans support stronger gun control legislation like universal background checks. Bernie has gone on record saying that gun control legislation wouldn't have prevented the mass shooting tragedies. Lots of voters disagree with him on that.

And when you say what a "whole lot of democrats" will or wont support - keep in mind that a lot of democrats don't support socialists ideas. Just saying. before you attack me let it be known that I actually identify as a socialist, so I am not speaking about myself, but pointing out that Bernie's appeal is hardly mainstream. I find irony in the fact that Bernie supporters defend his pro gun/NRA stance by declaiming it more mainstream when his whole appeal is built on bucking the mainstream.

[beevul]

9. I see alot of 'nra talking point' accusations...

I see alot of 'nra talking point' accusations, yet I see no one saying this so called 'nra talking point' is wrong in principle.

Meanwhile, Sanders sells himself as an anti-corporate warrior who tells inconvenient truths...

Perhaps its because this so called 'nra talking point' is an inconvenient truth, and all the 'talking point' accusations are...shall we say...evidence...of just how inconvenient a truth it is.

[MJkcj]

46. NRA talking points are bullshit

Really? I need to explain to you why the NRA talking points are BS?
No they are not an inconvenient truth.
The inconvenient truth is your candidate is on the wrong side of this particular issue.

[Duckhunter935]

51. Where can I find this list

Of NRA talking points. The only ones I have actually seen are the talking points put out by the pro control side

[MJkcj]

54. go to the NRA site.

NRA facebook page. NRA sends out regular emails. NRA robo calls to members.

[Duckhunter935]

58. Never seen a list of talking points

The NRA lobbying arm has some position pages and I very rarely agree with them. The main NRA safety arm has great and informative articles on firearms safety. The Poe control AstroTurf organizations have talking points like use emotion in your argument. They also have no gun safety training materials even though they want to be called "gun safety" organizations.

[MJkcj]

63. I have a relative who is a member of the NRA

She forwards me their emails on a regular basis. The "talking points" are the propaganda they send out to their membership. Then the membership like to use them on facebook pages or send them to their gun control advocate relatives like me to aggravate us. they love to aggravate us "libtards&quot The propaganda states these so called "facts" that guns don't kill, people do. That more people die in car accident so why don't we ban cars? That spoons cause obesity, so should we regulate spoons now too? That the only way we can be safe if everyone has a gun. They get more and more ludicrous.

[Duckhunter935]

66. Do cars kill people?

Or is it the drivers fault?

[TeddyR]

72. Well

Based on controller theory, it is the car manufacturer's fault, or perhaps Jim Beam should be sued because it flooded the market with a legal product that was misused by the driver. In any event, we can't blame the person who pulled the trigger, because . . . gunz.

[Duckhunter935]

75. Yes, the hypocrisy

Is astounding to me.

[MJkcj]

78. The lack of compassion is astonishing to me

[frylock]

99. Where, specifically, is the lack of compassion?

[MJkcj]

74. WELLLLL

One of the big differences is cars are designed for the purpose of transportation. guns are designed to kill.
before your drive a car you must get a license. No one under a certain age can drive. the restrictions on getting a license are getting tougher and tougher. laws were enacted to improve car safety due to pressure from the public and responsible government. cars now have airbags and seat belts. neither existed when I was a child. There are all kinds of safety regulations in place. laws have been enacted and become increasingly stricter regarding the use of alcohol and driving. in short - driving cars is regulated to increase the safety and decrease the risk and the use of cars has a functionality beyond killing or recreation.

The same should apply to guns. more regulations on use and better safety

[Duckhunter935]

80. Sure I agree, let's treat guns like cars

No license required to own. No insurance required to own. No background checks required to own. Renew my CCW license online, no more fingerprints and $200 dollar fee. I will pay the $25 gladly. Any license issued is recognized in all other states. Of course there are already thousands of federal, state and local laws and regulations for gun ownership.

[TeddyR]

81. Guns are highly regulated

And I have no problem with a background check or frankly a license requirement. I do have a problem with a licensing system like they have in DC, which makes it almost impossible to purchase a pistol and takes month to go through the process. If you want to make the licensing requirement similar to that for cars - I go to DMV, take a test and an hour later have my license then I'm all in. I will not support any law that attempts to keep weapons out of the hands of law abiding citizens (nor would our Founding Fathers).

[MJkcj]

85. You asked

I copied this from Scootaloo's post in case you missed it:

Since it seems some people are very confused...

Wayne LaPierre:
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

“We have blood-soaked films out there, like ‘American Psycho,’ ‘Natural Born Killers’ that are aired like propaganda loops on splatter days.”

“And throughout it all, too many in the national media, their corporate owners and their stockholders act as silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators.”

“But since when did the gun automatically become a bad word? A gun in the hands of a secret service agent protecting our president isn’t a bad word.”

“With all the foreign aid the United State does…can’t we afford to put a police officer in every single school?”

“Politicians pass laws for gun-free school zones. They issue press release bragging about them. They post signs advertising them, and in doing so, they tell every insane killer in America that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk.”

“How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame from a national media machine that rewards them with wall-to-wall attention and a sense of identity they crave?”

“There exists in this country, sadly, a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people through vicious and violent video games.”

“We can’t lose precious time debating legislation that won’t work.”

“I call on Congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed officers in every single school in this nation.”


Ted Nugent:
"Where you have the most armed citizens in America, you have the lowest violent crime rate. Where you have the worst gun control, you have the highest crime rate. "

"Every study on crime and or firearms proves time and time again, that 99.99999% of American gun owners do not commit crimes or use our firearms in any dangerous or improper way."

"There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period. "

"The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil. "

"Americans have the right to choose to be unarmed and helpless. Be my guest. "

Decked out in full-on camouflage hunting gear, Nugent wielded two machine guns while raging, "Obama, he's a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary," he continued. "You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch." Nugent summed up his eloquent speech by screaming "freedom!"


Charlton Heston:
"Let me make a short, opening, blanket comment. There are no "good guns". There are no "bad guns". Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody — except bad people"

"You could say that the paparazzi and the tabloids are sort of the "assault weapons" of the First Amendment. They're ugly, a lot of people don't like them, but they're protected by the First Amendment — just as "assault weapons" are protected by the Second Amendment."

"You do not define the First Amendment. It defines you. And it is bigger than you. That's how freedom works. It also demands you do your homework. Again and again, I hear gun owners say, how can we believe anything the anti-gun media says when they can't even get the facts right? For too long, you have swallowed manufactured statistics and fabricated technical support from anti-gun organizations that wouldn't know a semi-auto from a sharp stick. And it shows. You fall for it every tim"

"I simply cannot stand by and watch a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States come under attack from those who either can't understand it, don't like the sound of it, or find themselves too philosophically squeamish to see why it remains the first among equals: Because it is the right we turn to when all else fails. That's why the Second Amendment is America's first freedom."

"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder. Yet in essence, that is what you have asked our loved ones to do, through an ill-contrived and totally naive campaign against the Second Amendment."

"I remember a decade ago at my first annual meeting in St. Louis. After my banquet remarks to a packed house, they presented me with a very special gift. It was a splendid hand-crafted musket.
I admit I was overcome by the power of its simple symbolism. I looked at that musket and I thought of all of the lives given for that freedom. I thought of all of the lives saved with that freedom. It dawned on me that the doorway to all freedoms is framed by muskets.
So I lifted that musket over my head for all to see. And as flashbulbs popped around the room, my heart and a few tears swelled up, and I uttered five unscripted words. When I did, that room exploded in sustained applause and hoots and shouts that seemed to last forever. ... So as we set out this year to defeat the divisive forces that would take freedom away, I want to say those words again for everyone within the sound of my voice to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. Gore: From my cold dead hands!"

[Duckhunter935]

86. Nice, lots of quotes.

I will have to find the link to the Bloomberg PDF that has instructions and acual talking points to use on firearms. The have been linked several times on DU and will see if I can find them later tonight.

[Le Taz Hot]

12. "Parrots" the NRA.

LOL! Colorful word, "parrots." As if he is incapable of original thought.

[tularetom]

13. It's hardly "parroting the NRA" to exempt a manufacturer from liability arising from

the illegal use of his product.

Other posters have cited the ridiculousness of holding an automaker responsible for the use of a stolen car in a homicide, but there are many silly examples.

If some nut uses his iPhone to remotely trigger a bomb that kills a bunch of people, should Apple be held liable? Or maybe you could sue AT&T or Verizon if he uses their network to transmit the signal. Maybe you could even sue the US government for creating the rules that allowed Apple to outsource their manufacturing operations to China. See how stupid this can get?

Not to worry, however, under Obamatrade, nobody will ever be able to sue any corporation for anything so the whole question is probably moot.

[oberliner]

15. I think the "parroting" is with respect to the hammer comparison

Both used the exact same analogy, which is a talking point the NRA uses.

[Wilms]

20. I came up with that analogy, too.

I was unaware that Sanders and the NRA had done so.

So I'm a parrot now?

(Wilms thinks 101 Logic should be part of compulsory education.)

[artislife]

19. On the questions of guns

I don't own one, probably won't and I hate the assault and semi automatics.

That being said. I do agree that people can own guns. I worked for 1-594 in Washington State
Bullet Points of I-594:

The initiative is simple: it makes sure that anyone buying a gun in Washington State passes the same background check, no matter where they buy the gun and no matter whom they buy it from.
When a private seller and buyer arrange to meet in person to conduct the transfer, they would meet at a licensed dealer, instead of in a parking lot or another public place.
The buyer and the licensed dealer would proceed as if the buyer were trying to purchase from a dealer. The buyer would complete the proper forms, and the dealer would call in the background check—in the exact same way as if the dealer were selling a firearm from its own inventory.
This initiative simply has private sales go through the same process people have been using successfully for years when purchasing from a licensed dealer.
This is an accessible process. 98% of Washingtonians live within 10 miles of a dealer. In fact, there are twice as may licensed gun dealers in Washington as there are US post offices.
Private parties complying with the background check requirement are exempt from sales tax.



Do you know how hard that was to get passed. And the assault to get it weakened. I believe in gun control. If I lived 15 miles further out of the city than I do now, I may have a gun on the property. Probably not, but I understand why someone would want to. We have all kinds of dangers from break ins to wild animals.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. And

another Hillaryite off to the ignore list.

[William769]

32. Kick & highly recommended!

[Scootaloo]

33. Meanwhile, here's what the NRA actually sounds like

Since it seems some people are very confused...

Wayne LaPierre:

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

“We have blood-soaked films out there, like ‘American Psycho,’ ‘Natural Born Killers’ that are aired like propaganda loops on splatter days.”

“And throughout it all, too many in the national media, their corporate owners and their stockholders act as silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators.”

“But since when did the gun automatically become a bad word? A gun in the hands of a secret service agent protecting our president isn’t a bad word.”

“With all the foreign aid the United State does…can’t we afford to put a police officer in every single school?”

“Politicians pass laws for gun-free school zones. They issue press release bragging about them. They post signs advertising them, and in doing so, they tell every insane killer in America that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk.”

“How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame from a national media machine that rewards them with wall-to-wall attention and a sense of identity they crave?”

“There exists in this country, sadly, a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people through vicious and violent video games.”

“We can’t lose precious time debating legislation that won’t work.”

“I call on Congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed officers in every single school in this nation.”

Ted Nugent:

"Where you have the most armed citizens in America, you have the lowest violent crime rate. Where you have the worst gun control, you have the highest crime rate. "

"Every study on crime and or firearms proves time and time again, that 99.99999% of American gun owners do not commit crimes or use our firearms in any dangerous or improper way."

"There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period. "

"The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil. "

"Americans have the right to choose to be unarmed and helpless. Be my guest. "

Decked out in full-on camouflage hunting gear, Nugent wielded two machine guns while raging, "Obama, he's a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary," he continued. "You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch." Nugent summed up his eloquent speech by screaming "freedom!"

Charlton Heston:

"Let me make a short, opening, blanket comment. There are no "good guns". There are no "bad guns". Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody — except bad people"

"You could say that the paparazzi and the tabloids are sort of the "assault weapons" of the First Amendment. They're ugly, a lot of people don't like them, but they're protected by the First Amendment — just as "assault weapons" are protected by the Second Amendment."

"You do not define the First Amendment. It defines you. And it is bigger than you. That's how freedom works. It also demands you do your homework. Again and again, I hear gun owners say, how can we believe anything the anti-gun media says when they can't even get the facts right? For too long, you have swallowed manufactured statistics and fabricated technical support from anti-gun organizations that wouldn't know a semi-auto from a sharp stick. And it shows. You fall for it every tim"

"I simply cannot stand by and watch a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States come under attack from those who either can't understand it, don't like the sound of it, or find themselves too philosophically squeamish to see why it remains the first among equals: Because it is the right we turn to when all else fails. That's why the Second Amendment is America's first freedom."

"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder. Yet in essence, that is what you have asked our loved ones to do, through an ill-contrived and totally naive campaign against the Second Amendment."

"I remember a decade ago at my first annual meeting in St. Louis. After my banquet remarks to a packed house, they presented me with a very special gift. It was a splendid hand-crafted musket.
I admit I was overcome by the power of its simple symbolism. I looked at that musket and I thought of all of the lives given for that freedom. I thought of all of the lives saved with that freedom. It dawned on me that the doorway to all freedoms is framed by muskets.
So I lifted that musket over my head for all to see. And as flashbulbs popped around the room, my heart and a few tears swelled up, and I uttered five unscripted words. When I did, that room exploded in sustained applause and hoots and shouts that seemed to last forever. ... So as we set out this year to defeat the divisive forces that would take freedom away, I want to say those words again for everyone within the sound of my voice to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. Gore: From my cold dead hands!"

[MJkcj]

83. K&R

good post. thank you.

[gregcrawford]

34. Specious reasoning at best...

... I could render a much harsher assessment, but then the PC police would be all over my ass. I'm a Liberal down to my DNA, a Vermonter, and a lifelong gun owner. I also despise Wayne LaPierre and how he's corrupted the NRA.

Vermont is a largely rural state with a long history of gun ownership and hunting. Bernie represents his constituency responsibly and ethically. I disagree with him on the deployment of the F-35, but no decent person would disagree with his positions on the really big questions, like income disparity, the cancer of corporatism, or the malevolent evil of the Big Banksters.

No one disputes the greed, malice, and mendacity of the NRA or the firearms manufacturers they shill for, but if you're going to sue gun makers for any harm inflicted by those who buy their products, you have to do it to ALL manufacturers, and that dog won't hunt.

[MJkcj]

59. I disagree.

When they sued tobacco industry for causing cancer they didn't have to go after all manufactures. Starts with one specific lawsuit.

You say "no one disputes the greed malice and mendacity of the NRA or firearms manufactures" and yet I hear a whole lot of apologists for them posting here on this page.

I actually like Bernie's positions on income disparity and corporatism but I think if he is going to be taken seriously on a national stage he has a long way to go on a lot of issues, and his "parroting" the NRA was very damaging in the eyes of many.

[Duckhunter935]

64. The tobacco companies

Had the information on the health issues and deliberately misled the consumer and hid it from the government. Weapon manufacturers advertise the specifics of the weapons and can not sell to the genes republic but only to a government authorized dealer.

[MJkcj]

69. it would be the first step in enacting safety regulations

Yes, it would be a different law suit but the same idea still applies. Even if they lost the law suit (as was the case with the first couple of times they went after the tobacco companies) it would open the door to challenging the manufactures to use smart gun technology, to ensuring more safety measures are in place. it would have been an important first step just to have the people challenge the manufactures.

[artislife]

67. But when you over drink they don't go after Smirnoff. nt

[AgingAmerican]

37. With a D- rating

[MJkcj]

57. Or is it a C rating?

Or is it an F rating?
Or what exactly is his rating at this particular point in time. seems like it changes daily.
And what is it based on?
Because looking at his voting record he has sided with the NRA and gun manufactures more than voted against.
But glad you find it so amusing.

[MannyGoldstein]

61. Which votes are you looking at?

Not these, I think:

https://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/27110/bernie-sanders#.VaJ559_D_qD

[AgingAmerican]

95. I agree with him

Nt

[aikoaiko]

76. Some Democrats don't know what to do when faced w/a thoughtful moderate on gun control

Except to shriek NRA! NRA! NRA!

Even when there is no connection between the NRA and Bernie.

[MJkcj]

79. Some democrats think gun control is an important issue

[aikoaiko]

82. Democrat are for gun laws but it's not really all that important except for an extremist few

You have to scroll all the way down to get to gun control.

[MJkcj]

87. According to this poll social security doesn't resonate with any democratic voters either.

or does abortion.

Funny, I thought social security and abortion were hot button topics that were very important to voters

who'd they poll?
likely voters?
how was the question worded? did they just ask people to name their number one concern or did they give a list and have people rank them?
we all know the way a poll is worded can greatly influence the way people respond.

I don't believe I am among an extreme few. I may be proved wrong but I think gun control is actually an issue that a lot of voters care about.

[Duckhunter935]

89. part of the issue is

It might a mile wide in gun control support but most do not follow though with any action. When they tried an ammunition ban, the backlash from people that actually follow through and vote, it was dropped immediately. This has what has happened in most gun control legislation. Most people including me support UBC as reasonable, but when certain people over reached and tried to push for an AWB the support vanished and the opposition showed up.

[aikoaiko]

90. there aren't important when you've reached an equlibrium.

As we have with abortion, social security, and gun control.

[ronnykmarshall]

88. THIS POST NEEDS TO BE REPORTED!!!

[RichVRichV]

91. Your very anti-capitalism.

Your starting to sound like a socialist.

The simple fact is that someone who makes a legal product free from defect and sold in a legal manner, should not be able to be sued for said product's use by third party. That's a very basic capitalist principle. If you don't like it then make the product illegal or tighten restrictions on selling it (I'm generally for either on guns).

And if you think I'm pro-NRA, think again. I doubt you'll find a bigger gun control advocate here. I want to see the second amendment abolished even.

However I can seperate commerce issues from gun control issues.

[X_Digger]

94. Drunk driver kills your kid? Sue Smirnoff! Or the state liquor board for issuing a store license.

That Bernie actually uses logic to arrive at a decision rather than polling and/or knee jerk platitudes? That's a plus, not a minus.

[uponit7771]

96. Yeap, if Smirnoff is knowingly making their product more dangerous... But humpers know that...

... and throw stupid ass'd strawmen up as soon as they can

[X_Digger]

100. Lol, and you still can't address it.

It all boils down to.. "CAUZ GHUNZ, DAS WHY!1!"

[Duckhunter935]

102. Yes they are

They knowingly keep the alcohol content high enough to cause drunkeness. They should and could cut the alcoholic content Down. They also knowingly sell in bottles that have very high doses of alcohol and do not provide serving sizes.

I think it should be only sold in those little airline bottles. Nobody needs any more than one of those and anything bigger than that is a safety and health issue.

[uponit7771]

103. Good points about Smirnof

[Damansarajaya]

97. The biggest issue of our times is the destruction of the middle class. It's not guns.

Focusing on guns alienates tens of millions of rural people who grew up with guns and actually LIKE them.

If you want to save children's lives, focus on swimming pools. They kill more kids than guns.

We have much bigger fish to fry in this election. Guns just aren't that important.

[uponit7771]

104. Soooo, communities drenched with gun violence should vote Sanders?!?!

[Duckhunter935]

105. yep

in my opinion

[Damansarajaya]

106. How about communities drenched in swimming pool drownings? nt