2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumJoe Stiglitz Gives Thumbs Up To Clinton's Economic Plan
New YorkRoosevelt Institute Chief Economist and Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz released the following statement following Hillary Clintons economic address. Stiglitz and Roosevelt staff have held multiple briefings with Clinton campaign staff over the past several months on Roosevelts Rewriting the Rules of the American Economy agenda.
This speech showed a clear understanding that our economy is no longer working for most Americans, that the rules of the economy matter, and that we need to fundamentally rewrite the rules to ensure our nation and its people can live up to their full potential. Growth is not achieved by pulling a number out of thin air but by focusing on and investing in our families and communities, ensuring Americans can earn enough to afford a middle-class life, and making our financial markets work for everyday Americans rather than the short-term interests of CEOs and speculators.
Today Hillary Clinton began to offer the kind of comprehensive approach we need to tackle the enormous economic challenges we face, one that is squarely in line with what we have called for at the Roosevelt Institute.
http://crooksandliars.com/2015/07/joe-stiglitz-gives-thumbs-clintons
djean111
(14,255 posts)And many of us are wary of campaign rhetoric.
I do believe that the trickle-down of corporate profit-sharing is a joke.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)wayer because of her economic positions?
djean111
(14,255 posts)advisers in order to come up with campaign blather is just saying what she has been assured the people want to hear. IMO and all that. And, again, touting corporate profit-sharing is just tone-deaf. The corporations are not really going to do that, and it would not benefit that many people if they did.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Come on. You seem like a reasonable person.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)But if saying 200 makes you feel better perhaps you can list at least 10 of her economic adviser's?
Jakes Progress
(11,122 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)I read what they have to say, and compare that with past deeds and associations. And, of course, I have been advised, over the past few years, that campaign speeches are what politicians have to say in order to get elected, and one is just being picky if they expect them to actually follow through.
That is how I decide MY vote. Others decide theirs differently. C'est la vie and all that!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I don't believe any sentient person believe Joe Stiglitz is a 3rd Wayer.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)And that makes me sentient doesn't it? Cogito ergo sum.
And while I don't really know what a 3d wayer is, exactly, Joe's position is that capitalism would work fine if only we had a government that would restrain what he calls "rent seeking." Tinker with the details, don't change anything fundamental.
And I could give a long list of Nobel Prize-winning economists who are way to the right of Joe -- the Nobel Memorial Prize for Economic Science has honored economists at every point on the spectrum.
Here are just three:
James Buchanan
Milton Friedman
Edmund Phelps.
Check'em out and think a little about how a Nobel qualifies an economist as a progressive.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Robert Solow -No
Paul Krugman-No
Paul Samuelson-No
I suspect most economists are garden variety Keynesians like Stiglitz, Solow,Krugman, and Samuelson with a few who belong to the Austrian School Of Economics.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)I would say Krugman and Samuelson (and Akerlof, who shared the Nobel with Joe) probably are to Joe's left, though that's a pretty blurry comparison. And Krugman has evolved.
I suspect that most of the economists I hang around with are "New Keynesians" (which puts them well to the right of Keynes -- in economics "new" means "not really" or free marketeers, and since I listen to many of their research papers, I'm pretty confident of that judgment. The only Austrian economist I've met recently was an undergraduate student. Brilliant young man, though.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)My friend was a professor at USC who recently moved to Thailand to teach...I did post grad work in Poli Sci in the 80s and took several courses in Economics...It seemed most of my professors were garden variety liberals with the occasional small c conservative or Republican and the even more occasional Marxist.
The problem here is a lot of folks don't operationalize their terms and just use terms as epithets like neo-liberals which I don't believe there are many here.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)The House is gerrymandered for another decade.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)...but not any more I guess. Hmmm, I wonder why.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)...here on DU? Yep, and his sharp fall can be summed up in one name. Hillary. Any support for her will result in a target on their backs, including teachers, black people,, and women, and referred to as low information people who base their support on "name recognition". In other words, they're stupid if they don't support Bernie Sanders. Real honesty can be rather elusive here at times, but I'm pretty sure that most of DU knows that there are those who have a pure hatred of HRC, and no matter what she says, or does, won't alter that. These are the ones who skim the edge of the Randi "Hillary is a fucking whore" Rhodes line, lightly brushing, but not crossing it for fear of being banned. Better to Live on the edge free to express their hatred, than going all in with one big punch. These are the people whose animosity toward Clinton runs far deeper than their support for their chosen candidate. If anyone can't tell, I only dance around things when the music is playing, and right now I don't hear any.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Cha
(297,237 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Posted: 07/05/2015 10:50 am EDT Updated: 5 hours ago
Democratic presidential candidate and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders (I) offered a first glimpse on Sunday of some of the people he might consider for his cabinet in a potential Sanders administration, and a few that he certainly won't.
"My cabinet would not be dominated by representatives of Wall Street," Sanders said on CNN's "State of the Union." "I think Wall Street's played a horrendous role in recent years, in negatively impacting our economy and in making the rich richer. There are a lot of great public servants out there, great economists who for years have been standing up for the middle class and the working families of this country."
Prompted by host Jake Tapper, Sanders went on to praise Paul Krugman, the New York Times columnist and Nobel Prize-winning economist. Krugman is a vocal opponent of tax cuts for the rich, and he has warned readers for years about the dangers of income inequality. "Krugman does a great job," Sanders said.
Also doing a great job, Sanders said, is Columbia University economics professor and Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz, whose recent work has focused on the perils of radical free markets, such as those espoused by some in the libertarian wing of the GOP.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/05/bernie-sanders-cabinet_n_7730208.html
to Jefferson23:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251426778
I've said for a while, since HRC helped fund Bernie's Senate run, they don't have core differences. They merely have a difference in how to get to the same goals. They both support Israel, with Bernie being the one who elucidated his best, saying they protected us from ISIS, who he says must be wiped out.
He's not against sending tax dollars to defense corporations or funding wars he may not have approved of; he's even for using drones to prevent employing ground troops, but not ready to leave the theater of war in the Middle East. He voted for the bombing of Kosovo, too.
They're both for public schools, unions, free college and pre-school; increasing taxes on the rich and expanding the social safety net; and rebuilding infrastructure, both physical and social; they both see working on climate change and more positive foreign policy as goals.
There are other similiarities. I'm comfortable whatever either of them do. Clinton has been closer to seeing the responsibilities of POTUS. Let's not delude ourselves that voting for POTUS is voting for the Prince of Peace. That eagle holds olive leaves in one claw and arrows in the other.
I see him as just as 'hawkish' as she is but he seems less open about his foreign policy than she has been. After all, she was SoS and followed Obama's orders to keep us out of warfare not bound by treaties. Both support NATO.
Add to that, the GOP has long framed Clinton because of her community organizing, push for the rights of women and children; and other things that Democrats want, as a wild eyed socialist. A democratic socialist, with universal coverage of social services.
She has had to deal with the Gingrich majority and the Bush years. And then the Tea Party but less directly. The Koch front groups have been working on the American mind to get them to distrust and loathe her as much as Rush and RW fundies do. As Mike Malloy said:
"Clinton haters are the scum of the Earth."
Most of us who were of age when Bill was elected, saw the Starr Chamber, its intimidation and persecution of those who didn't say what they wanted them to say, terrorizing people and destroying lives, in order to derail his agenda, then shut down the government causing people to die, literally, and all they did to degrade the office of the POTUS, know just what has been said and done.
And virtually all the cable and radio pundits that made their start in media going after Bill daily, along with RW fundies, are still influencing the mind. This is the machine going after her, and it's just as effective as it has been since the Nixon era. I'm sure the RW cabal has not forgotten that HRC was right up there in D.C. trying to get Nixon impeached, but he resigned and was immediately pardoned by Ford.
And so they got away with it. I'm not content to let them get away with it again.
sheshe2
(83,770 posts)Thank you freshwest!
I heard before that BS supports drone usage, but wasn't 100% sure. I'm surprised to not hear pundits like Ed and Thom touch often on his stance with that, considering that they both oppose drone usage and have criticized Pres. O for using that strategy.
And this is somewhat unrelated to your post, but I also was unaware that BS didn't vote in favor of shutting down GITMO when it was up.
http://archives.politicususa.com/2011/07/16/dont-blame-obama-only-6-democratic-senators-voted-to-fund-closing-gitmo.html
LW pundits talk about the need for him to pull HC to the left, but he has room to move leftward on an assortment of issues, as well.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I will rely on the judgment of the Nobel Prize winning economist and not the judgment of some angry internet posters.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)puter screen.
This person loves Stiglitz, and to hear him say something nice about Clinton.... LOL
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And they are very upset at anyone who points it out!
Wilms
(26,795 posts)You have Clinton's attention!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Could you please share with me any noted economists who have embraced Senator Sanders' plans.
Thank you in advance.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)on Hillary to match.
BI: Which candidate (or potential candidate) do you think is best for the economy in 2016?
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nobel-laureate-joseph-stiglitz-2015-4#ixzz3ft821mS0
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)This speech showed a clear understanding that our economy is no longer working for most Americans, that the rules of the economy matter, and that we need to fundamentally rewrite the rules to ensure our nation and its people can live up to their full potential. Growth is not achieved by pulling a number out of thin air but by focusing on and investing in our families and communities, ensuring Americans can earn enough to afford a middle-class life, and making our financial markets work for everyday Americans rather than the short-term interests of CEOs and speculators.
Today Hillary Clinton began to offer the kind of comprehensive approach we need to tackle the enormous economic challenges we face, one that is squarely in line with what we have called for at the Roosevelt Institute.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)rogerashton
(3,920 posts)Of course Sir Arthur is deceased, but his democratic socialist ideas were very congruent with Bernie's, then and now.
Here is another:
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/1974/myrdal-facts.html
Also deceased, alas. On the other side, here are 5 Nobel economists who endorsed Romney:
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2012/08/five-nobel-prize-winning-economists-endorse-mitt-romney-2461890.html
Well. Actually, I think Stiglitz IS one of the good guys in economics. But "in economics" is a strong limitation.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)rogerashton
(3,920 posts)Granted, dead men can't endorse. But we can learn from them. (Even dead white men: that would apply to Myrdal.)
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)BI: Which candidate (or potential candidate) do you think is best for the economy in 2016?
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nobel-laureate-joseph-stiglitz-2015-4#ixzz3ft821mS0
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)That means a lot vis-a-vis commitment to change.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)She is keeping everything very low key as she begins to outline each of her ideas and how to accomplish them. It is almost non-political the way she is approaching this campaign. Instead of ginning up crowds with talking point she speaks in "learning points" as she explains each challenge.
I am looking forward to the next few months and hearing more about her plans before things get crazy in the general. I am sure she will still come off as the adult in the room but, odds are, her opponent will be a jerk or a lunatic!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)It demonstrates what kind of president she would be.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)and reactive. Even my 89 year old Dad finds it clear and compelling. She isn't playing into peoples ideologies or fears, she is outlining how our approach to the economy needs to change in order for every American to live, work and enjoy health care in a fair and reasonable way. If anyone can make it happen, I believe she can.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 14, 2015, 01:50 PM - Edit history (1)
wherein Dems brings life back into it. All the negatives from both left and right, total obstruction of the GOPs, but Pres O is marching on although many roads have been blocked. I'm positive preferably with HRC in the WH, America will continue on a path of betterment for the poor and middle class.
Cheers!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)rogerashton
(3,920 posts)He might not want treasury. That would probably be a demotion relative to CEA.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The CEA gives advice. The Sec. of the Treasury holds the money.
Clinton makes these proposals (which by the way do nothing to make the too big too fail banks less risky for our economy and which do not go into enough detail about what taxes will be raised and what programs CUT to fund the new policies) easily enough, but really appointing the people to her cabinet to put them into practice is something I do not see her doing. Cabinet positions are often given to big donors or to the picks of big donors. And Hillary has a waiting line of big donors (and big payers for her speeches) wanting to "serve."
I just don't trust Hillary to put even this platform which is modest compared to Bernie's into action. Nice talk. But look at Bill Clinton's term. He cut aid to poor mothers.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Look at Bill Clinton's term(s)
-Twenty eight million new jobs
-Lowest unemployment rate in a generation
-Longest economic expansion in the history of the republic.
-Lowest poverty rate in a generation-
-Lowest levels of African American unemployment in history
-Lowest levels of Hispanic unemployment in history
-Highest level of African American home ownership in history
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)What is Hillary saying about the outsourcing of American jobs, our trade deficit, the H1-B visas, etc.
Clinton's presidency saw a huge dot-com bubble, and his signing of the repeal of Glass-Steagall freed the banks to use federally insured money to gamble on derivatives. That was wrong, completely irresponsible. The outcome was predictable.
And now Hillary does not want to reinstate a Glass-Steagall restraint on the banks. At least so far she has not as far as I have heard agreed to do so. That is vital.
And we need to know more specifically just how Hillary would deal with trade. The TPP was in part negotiated while she was at the State Department, and her husband signed NAFTA.
NAFTA meant the export of a lot of American industrial jobs to Mexico. We need those jobs here.
And the repeal of Glass-Steagall allowed Bush to just let the banks do what they wanted. We are still paying for the mistakes of the Clinton administration and the horrible irresponsibility and meanness and greed of the Bush bunch.
Bernie will not make the mistakes that Bill made. Hillary will -- and possibly worse. She is no match for Bernie.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Bill Clinton presided over the longest economic expansion in the history of the republic and I eagerly look forward to Madame Secretary ushering in a new one.
I will add that as a Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz is aware of probabilities and that is why he is throwing in his lot with Madame Secretary because she is the Democrat most probable to be our forty fifth president.
ismnotwasm
(41,980 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That's the question. It's one thing to prepare a half-way decent economic platform to run on (half-way because there is no mention of passage of a new Glass-Steagall Act which we need and no stated intention to break up the big banks which we also need), but it is quite another to actually run the country while keeping enough distance from the big banks like Citigroup and Goldman Sachs and the various Chase banks, to put that platform into action.
Bernie has listed the people he will appoint to the top economic posts -- Robert Reich is one. Hillary needs to list her picks too.
That's where Obama went wrong. He is a wonderful person and has done well with foreign policy, cleaning up the Bush messes about as well as any president could, but his economic appointments, his failure to impose limits on the bankers' bonuses, his failure to come out stronger for improving Social Security benefits, etc. were not good policies.
If I thought Clinton would appoint Elizabeth Warren, Stiglitz, Krugman or Robert Reich or some critic of our financial sector to the top economic posts in her cabinet, I would feel more positive about her candidacy. There is still the problem about her many bad votes, demonstrations of poor judgment (like her yes on the Iraq War Powers resolution) and her very convenient (and dare I ask if they were opportunistic?) epiphanies or "evolutions" on social issues like gay marriage, etc so I probably would not vote for her, but I am happy to see she has Stiglitz on board -- if only for show.
I wonder how much money it would take to persuade Hillary to "evolve" on this economic platform. And does it include putting Social Security money in a lock box so that Social Security benefits cannot be cut to pay for other social programs. And where are the cuts to our excessively large military budget?
ananda
(28,860 posts)Thanks
Laser102
(816 posts)She has met with economists and used their advice to form her economic policies. She has always been a very intelligent woman. I'm looking forward to her presidency.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)My favorite part was "Today Hillary Clinton began to offer..." as in finally
William769
(55,147 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)of her speech. What he said: Today Hillary Clinton began to offer the kind of comprehensive approach we need to tackle the enormous economic challenges we face, one that is squarely in line with what we have called for at the Roosevelt Institute.
What he is saying is she accepts his ideas, which would be a relief if she wins the nomination and then the WH
and puts them into practice.
A little bit more for clarity here in this interview with Stiglitz..the title is a little deceiving..he is
stating she is better than all of the Republicans, he is not talking about any of the Democrats
running:
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/archive/segment/55380d0dfe3444bbe40002b4
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)president, this is what a real leader does. There will be more details given in the future, great job.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I want to make it my avatar.
Go Hillary~
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)There's a great story behind it...I will tell you it if you want...
Cha
(297,237 posts)"authoritarians" that so many like to call others who don't agree with them?