I would rank the candidates at the Iowa Dinner as follows:

[brooklynite]

1. O'Malley: polished, natural speaker

2. Clinton: less natural but strong energy, solid audience response

3. Sanders: definite energy, but an angry tone that works well at a rally but I don't think was appropriate here

4. Webb: Lacked energy, no attempt to engage the audience

5. Chafee: poor, disjointed delivery

[elleng]

1. I pretty much agree with you, brooklynite,

but would switch the #s for 4 + 5, and thought Clinton sounded uninspired, leaving that impression about her overall.

[Iliyah]

4. Nope she did not and thats my opinon and I'm sticking with it.

[SunSeeker]

48. O'Malley looked nervous. His hands shook. He didn't memorize his speech.

His forehead was shining with sweat. He had to glance at his notes on the podium. He started off his speech with "I need your help," which sounded weak. He did not strike me as a natural speaker.


Hillary looked great. She had her speech down, no reading from papers on the podium or teleprompter. She went after the Republicans and talked about building up the Democratic party, putting more Dems everywhere from the School Boards to the Congress. That is how change happens. I found her speech inspiring and her delivery strong and positive. She also brought up local Iowa issues and bashed Iowa's Republican governor, which got big applause. She did her her homework on what mattered to her audience. And they appreciated it. Lots of standing Os. After she finisheded, the crowd was chanting, "Hill-A-Ree! Hill-A-Ree! Hill-A-Ree! Hill-A-Ree! Hill-A-Ree!" Sure seemed like she hit it out of the park to me.

[elleng]

49. I guess this is what makes ball games, or is it horseraces,

as I disagree with you 100%.

[delrem]

2. Sanders got standing ovations.

Sanders was specific on substance.

Hillary got a lot of pauses and a fairly tepid response.
Hillary was general, mostly just naming issues that she'd "fight for", not saying anything specific about how. She didn't fire anything up, that's for sure.

I've yet to listen to O'Mally and Chafee, and of the two I'm only interested in O'Malley. Something about Chafee won't let me get past an initial impression that he's just an opportunist.
I listened some way into Webb's speech but ... I don't much like Webb. MFG but he started reminding me of Oliver North, of all people!

[elleng]

3. Please watch O'Malley, delrem.

He got more and stronger ovations than others, and heavy on substance as usual.

[Luminous Animal]

16. I like O'Malley, but he did not, flat out, get more standing Os when measured by the

majority.

[elleng]

17. Measured by what?

[Luminous Animal]

21. Did you watch? The video evidence is a start.

[delrem]

18. OK, I was impressed.

It was an exciting speech.
O'Malley said nothing w.r.t. foreign policy.
That's unfortunate, because
http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Martin_O%60Malley_Foreign_Policy.htm
paints an at best apathetic picture, and as everyone knows, the USA is the sole super-hyper-power militarily in the world, and the USA runs a war economy.

In a big way I thought O'Malley was channelling Bernie. But because he doesn't address the primary fact that the USA is a war economy, and he doesn't address foreign policy at all, I'm dubious.

[elleng]

24. Here he is on foreign policy, delrem:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1281&pid=1622

[delrem]

36. Serious questions about US foreign policy aren't solely about "Benghazi".

Nor are they about tactics.

Before the W. Bush Iraq war (which was after overt hostilities started approx. 1990, if not earlier) a mainstream meme in the US MSM was about how a ground invasion could be "paid for" by gov't contracts for "rebuilding Iraq". Really. The meme stressed how much private profit could be made. Really. Yes really, the USA was totally in the face of the world pushing this score, as if the rest of the world would approve just as much as the wannabe profiteers in the "homeland".

The US "War on Terror" is a sick system of profit making, and the consequences of it go deep into the US economy. And even deeper into the US psyche.

Bernie isn't perfect by any means, but he's the closest of all the candidates from any US political party to actually want to tackle root problems - and not be satisfied with fluff talk, with bullshit statements about "fighting the good fight for the cause" but not actually naming the essence of the cause, the reason for the problem in the first place.

[JaneyVee]

13. The op nailed it. Watch them all.

[Renew Deal]

29. Red Meat

Any one of us can pick up 100 recs on DU just by saying the right things.

[delrem]

32. WTF has "picking up 100 recs on DU" got to do with this discussion?

You're way out to lunch.

[Renew Deal]

34. I think you got my point exactly.

Anyone can say things that excite. It doesn't make them presidential or electable.

[delrem]

42. OK. Got it. You're a wet blanket, by trade.

And you like to throw out wet blankets to advertise it.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. There seems to be some of this "anger" that you speak of

amongst many, perhaps even most Proles. Some prattle about "rich people stealing all their stuff".

I'm sure the Proles will get distracted soon by a blonde girl being kidnapped, or by having to work a third job to make ends meet... but it's something I worry about sometimes, at night as I lay in my Dux bed and gold-filagree linens.

Regards,

TWM

[brooklynite]

14. Perhaps so...but that anger isn't appropriate for every crowd.

[Luminous Animal]

22. Seemed to be A-Ok with this crowd. Could you point out where it wasn't?

[delrem]

23. Why not?

You seem to want to predefine "the crowd" as being opposed to Bernie's sentiments -- but that's an obvious projection.

The crowd wasn't giving Bernie standing ovations because some terrorist was forcing it to do so at gunpoint.
The ovations were because the audience agreed.
Not all of them, of course, and if you were there I'm sure you'd have hung your head and afterwards commiserated with the few others who didn't understand. Nobody's denying your right to cry tears at Bernie's success at getting his message out.

[Recursion]

6. I thought it was a tremendous showing by O'Malley

Between this and his speech at La Raza he's definitely answered my main fear about his campaigning skills.

[Agschmid]

10. Yup. He is solid so far.

[elleng]

12. Yes and NO FEARS AT ALL!

[restorefreedom]

7. pretty close to my ranking

except i would swap 2 and 3. hillary had some good fighting words and a nice narrative about her mom, but bernie had more specifics and substance on policies imo. they were actually very different speeches. and for this particular occasion hillarys tone might have been a bit better, so i could call it a tie.


almost couldn't watch poor chaffee. it was almost painful.

[msongs]

8. agreed O, HRC, BErnie and that's the end lol. Bernie needs a new speech tho. to be

fair I have not heard a political pitch from HRC or O this cycle.

CSPAN recorded version cuts off the end of Webb's presentation

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. I am not a Webb fan but he seems comfortable in his own shoes. He isn't changing...

[JaneyVee]

11. Same here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. These events are like Rorschach Tests./nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

19. These are my rankings

1. Sanders: Ready to tear some shit up, all power to the people, fuck the 1%

2. Chafee: Business-oriented classic New England Republican. Lame but at least he's honest.

3. Clinton: Cold and robotic. Seems annoyed she has to go through all these steps before her coronation

4. Webb: Safe and boring speech of someone actually just trying to get picked as vice president or high cabinet office

5. O'Malley: Uncomfortable delivery of poll-tested talking points. Beady, shifty eyes indicate phony liberal posturing.

[Luminous Animal]

27. I agree with everything except O'Malley. I think he is sincere and he has compelling and

well detailed policy but he has no populist skills. If he got the nomination, he'd be John Kerry redux. A big giant fucking snore.

[Cheese Sandwich]

39. Make sure you're getting both sides of the story

Clinton and Sanders both get intense scrutiny, including here on DU, as you know. O'Malley has't really got much scrutiny as far as looking into his record. There are a lot of questions about his illegal mass arrests and civil rights violations in Baltimore. He was actually sued by the NAACP and ACLU for that. He's spoken at the centrist neo-liberal Third Way think tank multiple times and has connections to Wall Street funding sources where he raised a lot of money as head of the Dem. Governors Association. Even though he claims to be against TPP now, in the past he acted like he was supporting it, having written that it should include stronger intellectual property protections for drug companies. Don't take my word for it you can check these things with google. You may still decide to like the guy but that's why I say get both sides and read some criticism before jumping on the O'Malley train. If you haven't yet.

[Luminous Animal]

43. Thanks for this. I am solidly in the Bernie camp and have donated and volunteered and

have gone to a meet up but happy to research O'Malley.

[elleng]

45. Ignore the man behind the curtain.

Here are FACTS about Governor O'Malley: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1281

[Renew Deal]

28. "Beady, shifty eyes"

That's weird. I'm surprised you didn't call him satan.

[elleng]

46. Exactly, Renew Deal.

Thanks.

[Cheese Sandwich]

50. Not surprising.

Satan is imaginary.

[Luminous Animal]

20. 3. Sanders. Got standing O after standing O and walked out on an on their feet crowd.

[Renew Deal]

25. He's loud

[Luminous Animal]

31. Horrors. And the crowd responded loudly with him. Over and over and over again.

[Renew Deal]

33. It's a tricky problem

Remember the Dean "Scream"? In the hall he didn't know there was a problem, but it came through differently on TV. I'm not saying Bernie hurt his campaign, but he's not as polished as some of the other experienced politicians (Hillary, O'Malley, Webb).

There are criticisms of the others. Chaffee is a snooze. O'Malley doesn't seem fully comfortable. Clinton sounds like she's been giving the same speech for a long time. Webb has a small range.

[Paka]

38. I don't want polished.

I want honest and sincere and I think a lot of folks are with me on that.

[Luminous Animal]

40. TV made the Dean scream a problem. The media took an isolated mike and amplified it.

This is a fact. If you look at any honest footage. Dean's yell was just a part of the crowds yell.

Get it? The media catapulted the propaganda that Dean screamed at the crowd but the truth was, Dean cheered with his crowd and his cheering was no louder than his crowd. But the media CHOSE to amplify his dedicated mike and play that as reality.

[JI7]

41. the Dean Scream was after he had lost and he wasn't talking that way before

in sanders case they would just see it as part of his natural self rather than going crazy .

[Prism]

26. I'll agree slightly about Sanders' tone

I might - might - swap 2 and 3, but Sanders' tone seemed a little disjointed for the occasion. I found myself kind of leaning back from the screen given the setting. His policies and rhetoric were spot on, and the American people certainly have much to be angry about, but I'm a bit with you on that tone within that setting. Maybe it's because I was a TV viewer - the audience seemed to enjoy him - but his delivery kind of struck me as a weird fit for some reason.

I'm undecided between Sanders and O'Malley and like Bernie very much, but I kept kind of cringing.

This could also be an issue of sound mixing. I don't know about anyone else, but the clapping/audience response seemed very muted compared to the candidates' mics. So it was weird to hear Sanders be so strident, and then quieter applause following. I could see the ovations, but they seemed muted.

Or I'm just wildly overthinking this, lol.

[askew]

30. My rankings:

1. O'Malley - Fired up, passionate speech and was most optimistic of the speeches.

2. Sanders - Passionate speech. A little to yelly for my tastes, but still good.

3. Webb - Don't like him as a candidate but he brought up some interesting issues.

4. Hillary - She talks about herself too much. Running a "Me" campaign instead of a "We" campaign. Plus, she is still boring as hell.

4. Chafee - I got embarassed for him. That was bad.

[virtualobserver]

35. the weird thing about watching this....all of our candidates seemed sane

It was nice to see them all together.

[JI7]

37. imagine a Chafee v Pataki Race

how exciting would that be

[Cha]

47. It won't happen.

[PowerToThePeople]

44. Well, the audience appeared to like Bernie best

He had more standing ovations than all the other candidates combined and lots of cheering.