A Plea for Rationality and Sanity...

[Rosco T.]

The 2012 election comes down to a simple choice -

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

There is no third/fourth/fifth party, not a chance that a one could muster enough support. It won't happen.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

The "I'm not going to vote, I'll teach Obama to not give me my pony when I demanded it" crowd are doing nothing but weakening Obama's position.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

That's not 'fear mongering', it's simple math.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

We've seen what 8 years of the Shrub did to this country.. and now GOPTeaParty is on steroids, ready not just to tear down what Obama has accomplished, but roll back almost everything done in the last 50 years.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

"Obama hasn't done enough". Simple answer to that. Bullshit. Considering what he's had to fight against, he's done miracles. You want more? Second term and take back the House, hold and increase the Senate. No Brag, just fact.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

"Obama did this wrong, or that wrong or ..." No one is perfect and that includes YOU. Another term, with the House/Senate in our corner.. you might be surprised what might get redone.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

This is a simple choice between two KNOWNS...

You KNOW where Obama stands, you KNOW the unchecked batshit insanity the GOP promises to bring.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

There is no third choice that matters, you have only two.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

I know where I stand.

[demtenjeep]

1. spot on

don't forget the supreme court

[Rosco T.]

2. yes, the SCOTUS

the next president will most likely appoint 2 justices.

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

who do you want with that power?

[woo me with science]

3. Your plea for "rationality" went out the window

when you resort to the incredibly stale and insulting "wanting a pony" crap. We have heard enough about perfection and ponies.

It is a sad day on DU when Democrats who are deeply offended by policies like indefinite detention, settlements for corrupt banks, increase of the surveillance state, expansion of the MIC into new countries, and Republican-style trade and budget policies are scorned as merely "demanding perfection."

Committed Democrats care about these issues and always have. It is a duty of all citizens to push our elected representatives to do better. The calls to shut up about these things grow very old and tiresome.

[Rosco T.]

5. No one said a word about 'shutting up'

I gave you science.. simple math

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

You've proved my point very well.

[Lionessa]

9. Exactly!

[zipplewrath]

4. Try again

Only don't post one long straw man.

Here's an idea, actually respond to someone elses position, instead of making one up yourself and then arguing about it.

[Rosco T.]

6. Here's my position

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

Those are your choices. Period.

[zipplewrath]

7. False dichotomy

You're just racking up the logical fallacies. You wanna go for three?

[Rosco T.]

8. You wanna keep making false statements?

Obama or Romney/Gingrich

One of those sets will be the next president.

Please, explain how that is not the truth?

[zipplewrath]

10. Well first of all

The GOP primary isn't over, and considering how fickle the GOP has been, I wouldn't put a Santorum surge out of the question.

Furthermore, it's a 50 state "race" and the situation in every state is a tad different. One can make very credible cases in several states for various votes (or non-votes) that would be more effective for an individual's goals than the false dichotomy you are creating.

Oh, and accusations with no support is known as another logical fallicy. You're up to 3, wanna go for 4?

[Rosco T.]

11. Santorum would be the trifecta of bad...

.. you call that a defense?

and your '50 state' argument... Obama, Romney/Gingrich/Santorum will be on the ballot, hence the same choice remains...

Obama or Romney/Gingrich/Santorum

still the same choice, no matter what state you are in (except for you, you appear to be in the state of Denial)

wanna try to discredit a simple two choice solution and the results thereof again?

[zipplewrath]

12. I'll try

Not sure you'll understand

A vote has several effects. One of them is in the margin of victory. Professionals study the voting patterns looking for issues and positions for the next election. For example, you can bet that when this is over, there will be alot of folks looking to co-opt the Ron Paul folks as much as possible. Not all of them, but the "convertible" ones. Several folks I know here are planning on voting for Paul because they don't want to "annoint" Romney or Newt, but they don't think Santorum has a prayer. So they accept that one of the two they don't want will win regardless of how they vote, but that the pros will notice who got the rest of the votes, and why.

Now, in the general. Suppose you live in a solid blue state. A state so blue that the GOP isn't even spending money there. You can vote for Obama, and well do nothing, or, you can vote for a candidate that is closer to your positions, and let folks know. Conversely, suppose you're in a state so Red that Obama doesn't campaign there. You can vote for him to no effect, or you can vote for someone else and have people notice why.

Now, these can be risky strategies. You'd hate to wake up and find out that you lived in Florida in 2000 or something. Furthermore, you're hoping that the pros understand WHICH aspect of the candidate for which you voted was the message you were trying to send.

But alternately, to just blindly vote democrat is to ensure that no one is even able to listen to you, because they can't hear what you are saying.

Where I live, I'll be voting for Obama. But I'm not ready to tell everyone, in all 50 states, that they only have one choice. "With us or again' us"! That's the language of the extreme right.

[Rosco T.]

13. Well, you failed...

I never said "With us or against us"

I said, there are two choices...

Obama or the "Insane Clown Posse of the GOP" (don't feel like doing Romney/Gingrich/Santorum/Paul/etc...)

those are the two choices for what leads the country.

Period.

[zipplewrath]

14. And that's false

It's the false dichotomy you keep repeating. I can be "for" anything, not merely those two things. I can make many choices, each coming with their own risks. Your black and white world does not exist.