2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDNC Accused of Rigging Debate Schedule to Benefit Hillary Clinton
We certainly don't want any pesky debates to slow down Hillary's Inevitability train.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/17/1403055/-DNC-Accused-of-Rigging-Debate-Schedule-to-Benefit-Hillary-Clinton
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)sell themselves, have the record to back themselves, having experience and the ability to be president. The DNC doesn't need to try and match the GOP clown car. How many debates do you think people are going to sit down and hear the same questions over and over,
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)In 2007 there were 5 debates by the end of July.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)think something like this. She sure isn't afraid of the debates.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)The DNC is responsible.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)giving at his rallies.
London Lover Man
(371 posts)I expect Bernie to completely demolish Clinton in the debates, prompting DNC to schedule more debates in the hopes of turning around Clinton's nosedive after that.
Bernie doesn't bullshit, and cuts through the bullshit to inform you the truth.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Hillary is very strong and smart, she can handle herself.
London Lover Man
(371 posts)And what context?
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)London Lover Man
(371 posts)Hecklers gotta heckle, and Bernie's right because he's trying to deliver what he had to say.
When Palestine gets their own state created, let us know. Otherwise, the state of Palestine is a pipe dream.
I'm saying as a supporter of the two-state solution. It's the propaganda war that's pissing me off.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)No, sorry. He lost it there.
Temperament will make or break any candidate.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)still_one
(92,303 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 01:03 PM - Edit history (1)
republicans, as though they have their act so well together, but the facts are just the opposite. Fox, not the rnc, has already decided to screen out those in the first several debates that do not fit into THEIR filter. In this case they us poll numbers, which are not always the most accurate to determine who will be in the first debate. What would make it more frustrating to a republican candidate is that one of the best ways to introduce themselves to the American public is through the debate structure.
As far as I am aware, the Democrats are including ALL Democratic candidates in the primary debates, and excluding no one.
In addition, Markos Moulitsas has made his dislike for Hillary for decades, so while he is entitled to his opinion, it is not without bias
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)said what the threshold to participate is.
What have they done? Nothing.
still_one
(92,303 posts)believe in my view.
The first primary will be in February next year, and I have no doubt that the debates will follow the last last scheduled debates which were:
August/September 2015: Iowa
August/September 2015: NH
October/November 2015: South Carolina
November/December 2015: Nevada
January 2016:
January 2016:
While this makes good fodder for KOS to insinuate that the DNC and Clinton campaign are rigging the debates, I believe it will become a non-issue within a couple of weeks when a schedule is announced, and this KOS can claim credit for it I am sure
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)just politics-
still_one
(92,303 posts)Arkana
(24,347 posts)other than your own bias?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)If Hillary wanted to debate, 2008 Hillary Co-chair and current DNC chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz
would have scheduled it.
DWS is Hillary's Randi Weingarten in the DNC.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Innuendo followed by "HURF DURF WELL HILLARY'S JUST A BIG OL' SCAREDY CAT"?
You don't like Hillary Clinton, ergo she must be afraid to debate your candidate because she hasn't asked the debate schedule to be altered.
Better question: why would you WANT Hillary to control the debate schedule in such a manner? Wouldn't you prefer she stayed out of it?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)she isn't cowering in a corner.
she simply knows that every debate is a risk, frontrunners prefer to avoid risks like that.
I don't care what Hillary does, I want the DNC to schedule the debates.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)She won a lot of votes. Her only mistake was not taking the caucus' seriously. If there were primaries in every state, I believe Hillary would be finishing up her second term. She will take the caucus' seriously this time.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)she does not want to debate Bernie now.....she doesn't want him to have any additional exposure.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Once his policies and name gain exposure her vague non-committal responses will be laid bare.
Unless of course the DNC imposed ground rules prevent certain hard core policy discussion, which could happen.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The conventional political wisdom is that front-runners should debate as little as possible, because a debate can give a trailing candidate an opportunity to shake up the race.
In her Senate re-election campaign, Clinton had a primary challenger from the left, but had a big lead over him in the polls. She adhered to the conventional wisdom and did not debate him one single time.
In her current campaign, Clinton has a primary challenger from the left, but has a big lead over him in the polls. There's good evidence for the inference that she would prefer to debate as little as possible. The tradition of debates in presidential campaigns is well established, so it would be very difficult for her to get away with not debating at all, but certainly she would not want two dozen debates as there were in 2008.
Clinton would prefer minimizing the number of debates. The DNC, which is heavily pro-Clinton, is, for the first time ever, attempting to limit the number of debates, and is setting a limit that is substantially lower than the number held during last open contest.
To say that Clinton is "afraid" is a loaded word. I'm not pretending to speculate about her emotional reaction to this or anything else. The totality of the evidence suggests, however, that the DNC is motivated by its pro-Clinton bias, and is acting to help her campaign.
My guess is that there was no express communication from the campaign to the DNC asking for such a rule. There didn't need to be.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Could be coincidental, but the start of the debates is where Obama passed Clinton.
Since she's running a campaign of "Do the opposite of what hurt in 2008", limited and late debates makes sense.
George II
(67,782 posts)What's the point in delaying these debates?
To put it in your terms, if she has something to lose, wouldn't it be beneficial to have them as early as possible so she can overcome any mistakes she makes in them? If they're later and she screws up, the screw ups are more likely to be remembers on primary day.
Seems logical to me.
This is all fake controversy to take yet another false jab at her.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)it isn't a slight to Hillary personally....anyone with a large lead in the polls prefers to avoid debates.
Bernie is all down with debates, so lets go. All she ever does is very scripted media pieces.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Sounds like the Bernie camp is trying to rig the debates.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Debbie Wasserman Schultz will be scheduling debates out the wazoo.
Response to virtualobserver (Reply #64)
Snotcicles This message was self-deleted by its author.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)He needs exposure! The DNC is taking him out.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)amount of campaign funds is not adequate in giving him exposure. Six debates would give exposure, 26 would not be listened to anyway. If he can not do the job in 6 then 26 debates isn't going to help.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Obviously it also matters how many Americans can and will watch at the chosen times. Arbitrarily limiting the number of debates decreases new exposure for all participants, and favors those who already have it.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 7, 2015, 01:22 PM - Edit history (2)
No one is buying it.
1) It's been pointed out to you that simple math says the fewer the number of debates, the fewer the aggregate viewers. People work late, have long commutes, make dinner, forget it's on... If they catch two that's pretty good.
2) No one is demanding we have 26 debates, that number simply serves as a stark contrast to what we have scheduled now, which is 0.
3) The format, scope and number of debates is important. Evaluating candidates requires more information than an encapsulated "message" or bullet point list of promises and desires. Even if the same policy ground is repeatedly covered, I learn something new in every debate. Often new details of their positions emerge in subsequent debates. Then there are the intangibles; how poised they are responding to hard questions and challenges, their ability to stay focused and succinctly deliver their message, how well they think on their feet... so yeah, more is better.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)what is being said. Who needs 26 times?
think
(11,641 posts)so they don't know & understand many issues that effect them. Even here where people are debating the issues every day it's apparent people don't always understand the issues. I know I don't understand all the issues as best as I could and I still learn much here everyday.
With so many complex issues of great importance shouldn't the Democrats be doing their best to get information and their views out to the less informed general public as much as possible?
And with 6 debates it will limit the exposure of ALL the Democrats as whole to get their message out.
6 is a far cry from 26 especially when the DNC doesn't even have the debates scheduled this far into the primary season.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)people are interested they will listen to the debates. I don't need 26 debates and show a DNC clown car campaign. Not hearing the debates is not a problem if one is interested.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Then there are the voters that want to be well informed so they can make the best decision possible so we should let them have as many debates as possible. You and other low information voters on the other hand shouldn't care because you don't plan on watching most anyway.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Perhaps you post should go to low information voters, I do my research.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)How democratic of you.
Also having your mind made up is not the same as being informed. How do you know what will come up during a debate? Then again perhaps that is the problem for you and Hillary, afraid of what may come up.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)and that every American will be able to watch them all.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)address a lot of issues.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)You don't think they are going to allow Bernie to talk nonstop do you?
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)other issues, this may be the reason Bernie will fail in debates, issues which he has been leaving out maybe not to expose his position on those issues.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)as a matter of fact he often expands on the issues in question.
George II
(67,782 posts)....from old articles (May 2015)
olddots
(10,237 posts)of non democracy .
Scuba
(53,475 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I'm sure the crew will be here shortly to provide patently absurd justifications and excuses.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Another assault against the little people.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)no proof, no smoking gun, not a damned thing but innuendo.
ooohh republicans have theirs scheduled... hell, someone needs to call the FBI on this conspiracy.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)and they add up to either incompetence or manipulation. You choose.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)are you claiming incompetence by the DNC?
99Forever
(14,524 posts)same old, same old.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)PATRICK
(12,228 posts)This issue is so old and undealt with it almost seems fresh. All parties game the debates. Giving it 100% to a third party like the league of Women Voters seems to have gone with the wind. Dealing with media unfairness might make this sort of control generally pragmatic anyway.
Pretty good use of the frontrunner express so far without appearing too arrogant or fearful. This is one of the many false backdrops in the election game that still is of benefit. They are not really debates in too much of the sense of the word. Real debates for the real people of course are one of those issues that only get mentioned to push the chances of challengers.
When Kerry in substance and style crushed the bumbling wired Bush the effect was pissed away in the media response. In Gore versus Bush pretty much the same. The whole process needs big change from donors to donuts.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'm looking forward to the update to this article when DWS responds to the email.
2016 Democratic Presidential Debate Schedule
Could you please give me any and all details you have on the scheduling of the Democratic Presidential debates?
I am writing a story for the DailyKos pointing out the fact that at this time, no debates have been scheduled and no plans have been forthcoming.
The RNC has already scheduled it's first debate that will occur on Aug 6th, and other debates dates are already scheduled.
Although I understand 6 debates are planned, you have yet to actually schedule a single one. It takes time to organize a debate. It is important that our voters hear the positions of our candidates and hear them debate their proposals with one another.
Much of my research indicates there are some who believe the DNC is intentionally manipulating the debate schedule to benefit Hillary Clinton. Those claim that the reduced number of debates and the late scheduling is meant to deprive lesser known candidates of "less screen time" with the voters.
As much as I would like not to believe the DNC would engage in such tactics, all visual appearances seem to indicate that is exactly what is occurring.
Please respond at your earliest convenience. Our democracy and the integrity of our election process is at stake.
Thank you for your consideration and responses.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Wake me up when there's a smoking gun. The election is almost 2 years away. No one wants this starting now. Plenty of time.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Looking for controversy where there is none.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)But I am glad a spotlight is being put on this; that will make it harder for the DNC to get away with something if it turns out that they are up to no good.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)It's also pretty silly since she'll win easily without cheating.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)It's not a stretch to predict her doing the same with the '12 debates.
The crowds and social media attention that Sanders is drawing is scaring the crap out of the Third Way Corporatists that control the party. They severely underestimated the anger of the base, and probably didn't envision Sanders ever getting above 5%. They're living in a DC/Wall St bubble. Right now, at DNC HQ, there's no doubt a lot of finger-pointing and "who the fucks idea was this?".
corkhead
(6,119 posts)No reason to wonder, it is obvious. The DNC has already chosen their candidate and they don't give a shit what the electorate thinks.
Sidebar: It is amusing to read the comments on that Kos thread, looks like they have their own parallel universe primary wars going on.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I am willing to bet big money that Sanders will satisfy the DNC's criteria for being in the debates.
The fact that the debates will start later than last year and that there will be fewer of them is worrisome. It is possible that the DNC is strategizing here to boost Clinton, but the evidence of that is pretty scant right now.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Anyone who doesn't see this is either willingly not seeing it because they're tied so tightly to Clinton's cult-of-personality or they're just plain, well, how shall I put it, not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)The DNC is closely associated with Hillary Clinton, and I'm sure they figure, "What's good for her is good for us." This is not based on any particular animus to the other candidates, but more one the feeling that Clinton will be the nominee, and whatever they can do to help her helps the party in the general election. Yes, of course there are those who would like to swat down the annoying fly Bernie Sanders, who keeps landing on the fried chicken at the Clinton picnic, but they figure they're just doing the right thing by trying to minimize his opportunities. People get intensely invested in their candidates.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)But the Democratic process is not democratic, if you get my drift. The twists and turns of the party mechanisms are highly undemocratic, always have been, and probably will be. The system is rigged to reward loyalty above principle, etc. It's also very friendly to "smoke filled room" bargains, quid pro quo, and all sorts of other stuff we regard as shifty. That's not the way it should be, but those are the rules, and we have to live with that.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and stop using "we are figuring out our criteria" as a cover.
dws is trying to shield hillary from a debate with bernie and omalley for as long as possible.
fine, deb. just postpone the nosedive.
London Lover Man
(371 posts)I'm all for prodding DWS to do her effing job. Dump the exclusivity rule, and get the debates underway, like ASAP. And schedule 20 more.
antigop
(12,778 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 01:35 PM - Edit history (2)
from kos:
You can reach the DNC at their website Democratic National Committee
You can find the email address for Debbie Wasserman Schultz here.
There is also a change.org petition you can sign Give Senator Bernie Sanders a Fair Chance by Increasing Number of Sanctioned Debates
And for you Facebook fans, you might want to check out this page which is organizing a protest at the DNC demanding more debates
Please take action! The integrity of our election depends on it.
eta: kos as in the dailykos.com website, which the OP linked to
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/17/1403055/-DNC-Accused-of-Rigging-Debate-Schedule-to-Benefit-Hillary-Clinton
brooklynite
(94,657 posts)This is not from "kos"; "kos" is the handle of Markos Moulitas, who has not opined on this issue. This is the comment of "refelctionv37", an anonymous blogger on the DKos site (hmm, interesting comparison)
Walk away
(9,494 posts)all about income inequality and "the banks" because that and the price of cable tv is 99% of his message. That works for the folks here at DU but might not fly during a debate. I'm sure Bernie will try pushing Hillary into echoing his unattainable promises and I doubt if she'll bite. She has her own ideas about income inequality and she has been answering questions about it all month.
I am a whole lot more interested in Martin O'Malley and Hillary debating since they are both more rooted in reality. O'Malley has accomplished a lot as a governor that would be great to translate to a national level.
I understand why Bernie desperately needs the exposure that debating Hillary will give him but he should be able to get his point across in 6 debates.
Frankly, I think if Bernie doesn't like the way the DNC runs the debate schedule he should go back to his own party and debate the other Independents. Crickets!!!!
Response to Walk away (Reply #71)
think This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(94,657 posts)Was Clinton afraid of debating in 2008?
And if this is a real story, why hasn't Bernie Sanders complained?
But I suppose if an anonymous political aide says so, it must be true.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)brooklynite
(94,657 posts)...he has said nothing about the the conspiracy theory allegation that the schedule debates aren't being held, or are being delayed, or that he won't be allowed to participate.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)he wanted more debates and earlier debates....maybe even ACTUAL SCHEDULED DEBATES.
the DNC.......it's Ready for Hillary.
brooklynite
(94,657 posts)...DNC knows how well received Sanders is; DNC has welcomed Sanders into the Democratic Primary. You seriously believe they would try to block him from participating?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)They are not finalizing either the debates or the "threshold" that candidates have to meet....
That is just part of the political game playing.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)because we ran a candidate elected in a competitive primary: since then they've been trying to roll back the whole "democratic excess" through the "moderate" Scoop Jackson faction or the "fiscal moderates and social liberals" (I mean like Pelosi and Newsom, not the full Third-Wayers)
since '06 we've had the examples of Cegelis, Lamont, McKinney, Halter, Romanoff, Sestak, Grayson, Kucinich, Buono, Lutrin, Sykes, Weiland, Wendy Davis, and Grimes to go against their whole "we only care about getting Dems into office" and "the GOP won because you swine didn't turn out" schticks (not to mention the little pre-blaming song-and-dance they do whenever their polls look bad--was it gays, young people, or greedy geezers we have to worry about this year?)
George II
(67,782 posts)"DNC Accused of Rigging Debate Schedule......"?
WHO is doing the "accusing"? At first I didn't see that in either the dailykos piece OR their linked "DNC released it's schedule on May 5th 2015" article. But then about 2/3 down there is mention of the accusation (is it customary and/or good journalism to get to the "questionable" point of the headline toward the end of the article????) and another link to ANOTHER May article quoting a "Democratic 2016 campaign adviser" who has requested anonymity.
Excellent journalism!!
This is another contrived controversy and yet another Clinton hit piece, plain and simple. Sad it has to spiral down to this.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Who cares WHO is accusing? The only thing questionable is the fact that the DNC isn't scheduling debates.
The poster on dailykos is accusing.....I....am accusing.
Hillary's friends..... Board member of Hillary's PAC Priorities USA Action Randi Weingarten ....
and 2008 Hillary Co-chair and current DNC chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz.... have a more Hillary friendly way of operating, apparently
Endorsements months earlier than in 2007, debates months later than in 2007.
When the DNC schedules a debate, get back with me.
George II
(67,782 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I guest that Democratic aide had a point.
George II
(67,782 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Response to virtualobserver (Original post)
AtomicKitten This message was self-deleted by its author.
George II
(67,782 posts)....contained in the dailykos article and the lack of substance for this so-called "accusation".
It's total BS, but it makes for a volatile headline.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)maybe we should look at that.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)She has the BIG money...she has cozy chums and old-entrenched "Dems" already coming out for her...he has DINO's galore in Congress glowing for her...not to mention the Attack Dogs that are already out claiming all sorts of whackyness about Bernie...
Why would this be surprising...don't want anybody disturbing Her Royal Annointed One's climb to the throne.
BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)nice flamebait.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,370 posts)a headline is used to cast aspersions on one candidate with no proof of her involvement.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)but they are acting on her behalf.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)for President, but then all of a sudden his supporters decide they don't like that party's rules for debates?
Why not run as a Democratic Socialist and set the rules for debates exactly as he wants them?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)and I support Bernie Sanders, who is running for the Democratic nomination for President.
Bernie has endorsed every Democratic nominee going back decades. He has been as reliable a vote for Democrats as anyone could ever ask for.
So, my apologies if it offends you that I have certain expectations from the DNC.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)And when Dummie Loserman Schitz is involved, incompetence is always part of the equation.
On the other hand, Clinton is notoriously uncomfortable in uncontrolled public appearances, so it's possible her campaign put the DNC up to holding back on a debate schedule.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I just think that it is pure politics.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)If in fact they are incompetent.