As Bernie Sanders rises, attacks from the right get ugly

[babylonsister]

Posted with permission.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/bernie-sanders-rises-attacks-the-right-get-ugly?cid=sm_fb_maddow

As Bernie Sanders rises, attacks from the right get ugly
07/21/15 02:08 PM—Updated 07/21/15 02:13 PM
By Steve Benen


Last September, facing an unexpectedly tough re-election fight, Sen. Pat Roberts was getting a little desperate. The Kansas Republican, struggling in the polls, decided the way to hold onto his seat was to become as brazenly right-wing as possible, telling one audience, “We have to change course because our country is heading for national socialism.”

It was a curious moment. Pat Roberts, after spending more than three decades on Capitol Hill, was either arguing that America is headed towards Nazism or was using the phrase “national socialism” without knowing what it means.

About a year later, the phrase has popped up once more. National Review, ostensibly one of the leading media outlets in U.S. conservatism, published this piece from Kevin Williiamson about Sen. Bernie Sanders’ (I-Vt.) presidential campaign.

In the Bernieverse, there’s a whole lot of nationalism mixed up in the socialism. He is, in fact, leading a national-socialist movement, which is a queasy and uncomfortable thing to write about a man who is the son of Jewish immigrants from Poland and whose family was murdered in the Holocaust. But there is no other way to characterize his views and his politics.

Is that so. When describing the Vermont senator’s liberal approach to politics, Williiamson and National Review are effectively powerless – they must reference national socialism. There is, the author assures us, “no other way.”

Remember, unlike Pat Roberts, Williiamson isn’t just throwing the phrase around unknowingly. This is deliberate – the conservative is connecting the liberal candidate to the phrase most commonly associated with the Nazi’s political system.

That members of Sanders’ family were murdered during the Holocaust apparently didn’t stop Williiamson – or his editors, or the fact-checkers, or the publishers – from making the connection anyway.

Indeed, the same piece goes on to say Sanders would like to criminalize dissent.

His pose is not the traditional progressive managerial-empiricist posture but a moral one. He is very fond of the word “moral” – “moral imperative,” “moral disaster,” “moral crisis” – and those who see the world differently are not, in his estimate, guilty of misunderstanding, or ignorance, or bad judgment: They are guilty of “crimes.”

And criminalizing things is very much on Bernie’s agenda, beginning with the criminalization of political dissent. At every event he swears to introduce a constitutional amendment reversing Supreme Court decisions that affirmed the free-speech protections of people and organizations filming documentaries, organizing Web campaigns, and airing television commercials in the hopes of influencing elections or public attitudes toward public issues. That this would amount to a repeal of the First Amendment does not trouble Bernie at all. If the First Amendment enables Them, then the First Amendment has got to go.

Sanders and his supporters will very likely find this criticism infuriating, and with good reason. But what’s striking to me is the fact that the criticism exists at all.

It wasn’t long ago that the Republican establishment and conservative media were content to ignore Sanders and his ideas. If his name came up at all, it was used as a punch-line – Sanders was a liberal caricature, not to be taken seriously.

That’s obviously changed. As Sanders’ crowds grow and his poll standing improves, the Vermonter has positioned himself as worthy of National Review condemnation. To be sure, it’s unpersuasive, needlessly provocative condemnation, but it’s also evidence of a prominent national figure whom the right is no longer inclined to discount as irrelevant.

[sabrina 1]

1. Yes, did you know that he is now a 'Nazi'?? What a vile attack but then politics

seems to attract some pretty vile characters.

I learned that this morning and won't be surprised to see it again, and again. Despite the utter incongruity of it, it doesn't seem to stop those who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

[uhnope]

13. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

[daybranch]

161. The right wing oligarchy in our country and around the world created the Nazis

it is truly amazing how few people do not know how the rich of this country and the crown heads of Europe prior to WWII financed Hitlers rise to power and his major infrastructure improvements such as the Autobahn, in order to provide a buffer to the communists. Clearly when the Czar and his family were executed, their relatives occupying other thrones, such as the English throne felt legitimately threatened. For the oligarchy to call Bernie a Nazi to work depends on our willingness to accept blindly definition of a candidate by his enemies rather than his ideas and in Bernie's case, I think we can call them ideals.

Today we are told Hillary is smart, intelligent, informed, and can handle tough negotiations, and we are also told she is strong on women's issues and other forms of discrimination. I agree with all of these characterizations and if she were only running against Chuck Schumer or Claire McCaskell or Klobuchar or Ron Wyden for example I would support her.
But fundamentally I see her as the latest offering from the oligarchy and running against democracy due to her stands on major economic issues which favor the oligarchy over the rest of us. These include support of Mandatory Minimum Sentencing, her willingess to take Money from Private Prison bundlers, non- support of Glass-Steagall, support of Trans Pacific Partnership and Keystone Pipeline, unwillingness to criticize NAFTA, non-support regarding ending Citizens United, support by Wall Street and big banks, failure to support CAP and Trade and Environmental regulation to any significant degree generally her failure to admit her class is destroying our country, our people and many other people around the world, and including the world itself. I just cannot see Hillary as a supporter of working people based on an ever increasing list of things. Bernie seems to be a much better democrat.

[daybranch]

162. The right wing oligarchy in our country and around the world created the Nazis

it is truly amazing how few people do not know how the rich of this country and the crown heads of Europe prior to WWII financed Hitlers rise to power and his major infrastructure improvements such as the Autobahn, in order to provide a buffer to the communists. Clearly when the Czar and his family were executed, their relatives occupying other thrones, such as the English throne felt legitimately threatened. For the oligarchy to call Bernie a Nazi to work depends on our willingness to accept blindly definition of a candidate by his enemies rather than his ideas and in Bernie's case, I think we can call them ideals.

Today we are told Hillary is smart, intelligent, informed, and can handle tough negotiations, and we are also told she is strong on women's issues and other forms of discrimination. I agree with all of these characterizations and if she were only running against Chuck Schumer or Claire McCaskell or Klobuchar or Ron Wyden for example I would support her.
But fundamentally I see her as the latest offering from the oligarchy and running against democracy due to her stands on major economic issues which favor the oligarchy over the rest of us. These include support of Mandatory Minimum Sentencing, her willingess to take Money from Private Prison bundlers, non- support of Glass-Steagall, support of Trans Pacific Partnership and Keystone Pipeline, unwillingness to criticize NAFTA, non-support regarding ending Citizens United, support by Wall Street and big banks, failure to support CAP and Trade and Environmental regulation to any significant degree generally her failure to admit her class is destroying our country, our people and many other people around the world, and including the world itself. I just cannot see Hillary as a supporter of working people based on an ever increasing list of things. Bernie seems to be a much better democrat.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. No major surprise, the anti-Semitism was expected to come out.

The only possible interesting part was that they felt it had to come out so soon. The Right must really want to make sure they face Hillary, for whom they've got piles of attacks left over from past runs.

[Zorra]

3. The deceitful attacks from the DU right have been ugly for months. nt

[navarth]

6. +1

[lewebley3]

10. No, there are progessives that dont' agree with Bernie: We are for Hillary!

[RoccoR5955]

16. I think that they are more of the third way crowd myself n/t

[lewebley3]

47. No, we are the real Dem: not left wing Sanders crazy: Bernie's not a Dem

[RoccoR5955]

50. No, Third Wayers are not real Dems

They want to compromise. They are not willing to fight for what they know is correct.
Sorry, but in my not so humble opinion Mrs. Clinton is the one who is crazy.

[lewebley3]

57. There is only one Dem party: Hillary has been a loyal Dem leader

I will not compromise in risking having a GOP person in the White
House

Bernie has never had any responsibilities out side of 620,0000 the population
of Vermont.

Bernie is just not ready nor is he the right person to be President.

[RoccoR5955]

58. Oh, I thought that the Democratic Party

was for WE THE PEOPLE. Since when is it that all the money in politics, with super pacs, and such part of the Party's morals?

Bernie is more like an old style Democratic candidate than Mrs. Secretary Clinton is. Bernie reminds me of FDR. Mrs. Secretary Clinton reminds me of no politician in my memory.

There are Democrats, there are Third Wayers, there are Blue Dog Democrats, and there are DINOS. Yes it is one party, but it is quite diverse. My take is that we have got to get back to the old ways of doing some things, so that there can be more jobs, and more innovation here in the US. If we constantly give the Republicans any part of what they want, they win, even if it's only a little. It's a death by a thousand paper cuts, and the Republicans know this. This is why I despise these third wayers. They are not willing to fight for what they believe in, they are willing to give up their morals, to get some of what they want. I am not willing to compromise my morals. Never was, never will be.

[lewebley3]

59. Bernie is not an old style Dem: He refused to be a party of a party!

FDR believed in the party! Hillary and the Obama's have been
working for the party:

The Dem party is the only viable party that is working for the
people.

Bernie rejected this until he was 73, sorry to little to late.

[RoccoR5955]

64. Please explain why you think that

Bernie is not like an old style Democrat?
Inquiring minds want to know.

[lewebley3]

144. Obviously, he has not ben a Democratic party member

Last edited Thu Aug 6, 2015, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)

[RoccoR5955]

148. So, in order for someone to be an old style Democrat

They must be loyal to the party, even though the party has gone away from the old style for about 30 years?

Then tell me, when Bernie gets the nomination, will you be voting for him, or will you sit home and let a Republican win, or will he be a Democrat enough for you.

You do know that there is no formal party registrations in Bernie's state of Vermont, and they have open primaries. People in Vermont can call themselves whatever they want. As long as they get the petition signatures, they get on the ballot.

[daybranch]

160. Do you want to see his Bernie's birth certificate?

Most dems are not party members. Bernie Sanders is invigorating non-participating young people to become democrats, and as such he is the best democrat we have had in my party history. Most of the workers in the democratic party are progressives who see the class struggle. As I have went to doors over the decades selling our party as better than the other guys, I have been troubled by this so called big tent approach which in itself is pandering to those of any persuasion without any call to values. Frankly I have often been ashamed of our candidates unwillingness to take and state strong positions in order to avoid alienating some crazy group. I have heard party members repeat to potential democratic supporter right wing talking points of lower taxes and too much government regulation. The democratic party will either start standing with the people or in a decade, a stronger more vibrant third party that is more democratic will arise. The fight is on for the hearts of the democratic party. The old establishment party members who clamor for supporting Democrats In Name Only at any cost are battling with old activists whose progressive values have become recognizable as the majority view of our country's people no matter how loudly so called centrists within the party and main stream media deny it. Coupled with the excitement and enthusiasm generated by the millenials as they recognize the old democratic party did not work for them or society, progressives are running amok amongst local party organizations and spreading ideas of democracy both within and outside the party.
Do not complain that we have not paid our dues. We have paid them year after year and with our support of candidates you selected to call democratic. But paying dues and canvassing do not allow us to say someone who does not do that is not a democrat, it is the values he or she supports that should define him or her as a democrat.
In that regard, we progressives see Hillary as a social liberal but a conservative on economic matters and suppporting of the oligarchy. We see nothing in her support of the oligarchy as being democratic. In many ways, we find the name Hillary Clinton and the her own characterization as a democrat a contradiction. Her views on Glass-Steagall, on the Trans Pacific Partnership, CAP and Trade, the proposed Iranian nuclear treaty, her support of Minimum Mandatory Sentencing, and her collection of money from Wall Street, Bankers, and other members of the Oligarchy, not to mention the bundlers which appear to be from the Private Prison lobby, all cause one to ask is she really a democrat? Has your tent grown so big, that the basis of the democratic party - support for working families versus the oligarchs was shoved aside in our need to fund our candidates?
As Bernie says "Enough is enough". That is why we are taking our country and our party back. Join us and do something great, make the democratic party support working families and our people rather than kissing the boots of the oligarchs to get DINOs elected. Go Bernie!

[RoccoR5955]

65. Tell me how

TPIP and other trade deals are for WE THE PEOPLE
Bailing out the big banks is for WE THE PEOPLE
Superpacs are for WE THE PEOPLE.
Thanks for your prompt response.

[lewebley3]

66. He has never been a part of a party: He has never lead;

Last edited Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:48 AM - Edit history (1)

or had real responsibilities

[RoccoR5955]

69. So...

Being the mayor of the largest city in Vermont, is not any kind of leadership or responsibility?
Please explain how this is possible.
Thank you.

[lewebley3]

74. No, I would not count Vermont as leadership: The Whole state is 620,000 libs

[DisgustipatedinCA]

149. Libs, huh? Welcome to Democratic Underground.

[lewebley3]

151. Bernie preached a Vermont choir: A President has to deal with everyone

[daybranch]

67. He had to wait until the party was ready to stand with people again

many so called Progressives do not understand that everything is connected. You cannot really be a Progressive on social issues and a supporter of Wall Street and the status quo and really be a Progressive.
I believe there is a litmus test for Progressives. They have to stand up for the people in all situations especially in regards to billionaires. Bernie does, Hillary won't/. Obama did good things to help people but he never really works to change the status quo in regards to economics and political power.
Bernie is the kind of Democrat we want. Not a female version of Bill Clinton, who really does not qualify as a Progressive either.
Yes Bernie waited until we dems had had enough of the 3rd way and the DLC mentality and were aware of the tremendous threat billionaires pose both to our democracy and our quality of life.
Bernie has said he favors policies like those of democratic socialists. I actually believe democratic socialism is a proper name for policies followed by Franklin Roosevelt. Democrats are now ready for Bernie and his socialist ideas just as the people were when they elected Franklin Roosevelt over and over because he instituted socialist ideas.
I am actually a little sick of party over people, although I consider myself a democrat in good standing with the party. I will continue to try to push as best I can the party to the ideas advocated by Bernie a s I believe this is my patriotic duty. I find that Bernie's willingness to forgo the democrat label until it fits, a mark of integrity. Go Bernie!

[RoccoR5955]

71. Thank you for that. I couldn't have said it better! n/t

[lewebley3]

76. Bernie is self serving he, wants to use Dem's accesses to the ballot: That cost money!

Last edited Wed Aug 5, 2015, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

I am a Dem and I don't support Sanders! I don't
want my money to go to supporting him.

I think Dem's who have been loyal to party, doing fund raisers,
and talking to donors should be the ones on the ballot.


Not Bernie: His followers have bash the leaders of the Party,
Obama, and Hillary.

I don't think Dem's should do anything to help him on the ballot,
let him raise is own money:

[RoccoR5955]

87. The same Party leaders

Who are the heads of banks, and corporations?
That just makes one a corporatist, not a Democrat.
So I guess to some of us it's only all about the money, and how loyal you are to the corporate masters.
Thanks for that.

[lewebley3]

91. Neither Hillary or Obama has ever head a banks or a corporation!

Also are the Obama's and Hillary are the head Dem's in the
country.

Bernie's taking Dem money I quess he is a corporatist too.

This is why I can't support Sanders, this talk about bashing
the Dem party, the only party that has a chance to keeping the
White House, it just nonsense!

I am happy fight Dem like Hillary, not just a left wing heckler!

[Fawke Em]

99. Ugh... HRC sat on Walmart's board of directors for years.

So, yes, she did head a major corporation.

The board helps the CEO helm the company.

[lewebley3]

107. Hillary was not the Head of War mart ever! She sat on the board a curtesy position

She was the governor's wife, and it was good thing she
could recommend good policy for the workers, and
learn how the largest employer in the state ran
their company.

She was smart; but she had no power in the company!

She was very young and it was a good experience, she
opted for public service instead of private.

[cascadiance]

127. So she was "very young" in 1992 when she was still at Wal-Mart...

... and the year before she and Bill were in the White House? HUH?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/31/clinton-remained-silent-a_n_84246.html

In six years as a member of the Wal-Mart board of directors, between 1986 and 1992, Hillary Clinton remained silent as the world's largest retailer waged a major campaign against labor unions seeking to represent store workers.

The DLC was funded and influenced by Koch Brothers' people...

https://samsmitharchives.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/6467/

And the Clintons were a creature of the Koch Brothers' funded DLC as noted here...

http://www.gregpalast.com/i-want-my-fair-share-and-thats-all-of-it-the-kochs-the-xl-pipeline/

...
Bill Clinton's Administration, though nominally Democratic, went easy on Koch interests. Vice-President Al Gore especially, head of the Reinventing Government Commission, attacked regulations with more verve than Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher. Gore's anti-regulation guidebook was the "Mandate for Change" drafted by the Democratic Leadership Council. It was the DLC that had launched the career of the previously unknown Bill Clinton, its first chair, and Al Gore's career as well. The DLC was created with $100,000 of Koch money.

The Kochs use of fronts for corporate donations to politicians was plain illegal—until, in 2010, the US Supreme Court decriminalized this game in the Citizens United case. The lawyer for Citizens United is Ted Olson, whose day job is representing Koch Industries.

Note: The Kochs are bi-partisan employers. They also retain lawyer Bob Strauss, former Chairman of the Democratic Party.
...

[lewebley3]

145. When Hillary was on the Board, the Wal-mart product were made in American

Hillary didn't own the company, when a company goes public
is gives curtsy position to big names in the state. They
don't have any power. Hillary, to have husband run
for office had to get to know the players in her state.
(it is a good idea)

It is good that Hillary had an experience with how large company
works. She will know how to deal with them, she will be able
to use the her education to work for American people.

Hillary is well be one of most educated person in American
politics and business to ever run.

She is the perfect person to out smart the GOP.

[okasha]

140. Sitting on the board

of any organization does not make one its "head."A board makes policy by majority vote. How much power over policy an individual member has varies from none to almost all. Perhaps you can locate Hillary on that spectrum for us?

[artislife]

100. Boy they sure liked him when he voted their way, though

Don't vote for him.


We are getting younger, older, more fed up with the status quo people, anyway. The safety net is gone for us and now for Hillary, too.

Adapt and change or get left behind.

[hedda_foil]

121. Oh can it, lewie.

The repetition of HRC's and Repubicans' memes of the day or week won't make anyone change their position here. We're a great deal too well informed. You might have better luck on Yahoo. Sorry if you've been assigned to DU and are stuck with us. That could become really frustrating really fast.

[Puglover]

123. LOL

Perfectly said!

[beam me up scottie]

124. LMAO!

[Nite Owl]

156. +1

You pinned it!

[cascadiance]

126. Then you must have LOVED Strom Thurmond before he became a Republican!

After all, he had all that he needed for that loyalty with a D next to his name in the old days!

[lewebley3]

141. You don't know your history: Strom was never a liberal, like Hillary!

The Dem party since Kennedy has been liberal , and for
the working class.

[cascadiance]

146. But you weren't critiquing Bernie for being a liberal, but being a Democrat!

You can't have it both ways here... Bernie is FAR MORE of a liberal than Hillary is, or at least someone that espouses traditional Democratic values that we had from greats like FDR. You and others here are saying that Bernie is a lost cause simply because he's not a Democrat. And I'm throwing right back at you that just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean that person is who we want as president, as Strom Thurmond demonstrates here.

The reason for being a Democrat, or running in the Democratic Party primary, is to not be screwed by our two party system where additional candidates are "spoilers". If you really would rather have Bernie run as a third party and not be a spoiler like Ralph Nader was, then you should have long ago advocated the Dems put in place instant runoff voting, so that Bernie could run as an independent, and not send a Republican to the White House as a spoiler.

Otherwise, suck it up when someone is trying to show how a real voice of the people can get elected by running in the Democratic Primary with real Democratic values despite the corporate 1%'s efforts to BUY our two parties off and have corporate control (aka fascist control) over our government. At least by Bernie running as a Democrat and not a Republican its a semi endorsement for Hillary that the Democrats still run better candidates than the Republicans do even if it is for many the lesser of two bad candidates.

[lewebley3]

153. You don't understand what the term Dem meant when Storm used it!

Lincoln was the first GOP President he was a liberal!

[cascadiance]

154. Just like Democrats are now in many cases corporatists masquerading as liberals...

The Democratic Party has changed over time. Even in FDR's day, there were faults such as how they treated minorities and also Japanese Americans in WWII. But the fundamental ways that it protected and grew the middle class created a strong nation whose basis was felt and the concern for economic justice was echoed by Martin Luther King which he felt was just as important as civil rights and social justice that he was a champion for then.

The problem is today that the Democratic Party, for many who espouse traditional middle class values of FDR's day that served us the 99% of Americans, no longer prioritizes supporting the 99% of Americans when it looks to serve it's 1% campaign donors to get elected and prioritize what they want instead. Bernie like us, wants someone to appropriately call these 1%ers that want to BRIBE the party for special treatment for themselves at the expense of all of us economic royalists just as FDR did in his day, and not feel like he has to "join" them and be labeled as serving them too by those who want to manipulate his message.

As I said before, if he can get elected, and we can get a wave of more progressive politicians serving the people more than these 1% campaign contributor/bribers, I think that will be the day he would strongly consider becoming a Democrat, which I think waiting until then to make that move would serve him, the party, and all of us a lot more as a more significant statement then when we have won the goal of kicking out the corrupting cancer we still have in our party today.

I think he brings in more voters from independents and even Republicans to vote for him as a Democrat in the general election if he is still an independent then, as he will be seen as seeing someone who really wants to make the changes they want to see happen in Washington before they will re-engage and help take away Washington's record low approval ratings that are in place today.

[lewebley3]

63. The Dem party is only path to the Presidency for people: Regardless of money!

[pnwmom]

83. Ted Kennedy was not a real Democrat by your definition.

"Politics is the art of compromise." I don't know who originated that quote, but that's how Ted Kennedy got things done.

Ted both fought for what he believed AND compromised as necessary to make progress. Everyone old enough to remember him remembers how politics used to be fought.

[RoccoR5955]

86. No, Third Wayers don't want to fight

I have even seen this in my local Democratic Party. These Third Wayers don't want to fight because as they say, "We don't want to upset anyone." Yes there was some compromise with Kennedy, but NOT on the core principles. Oh, and I was at Ted Kennedy's funeral. I have pictures to prove it. I drove all the way from New Paltz, NY to Boston.
Don't try to tell me that Ted was a Third Wayer.

[pnwmom]

88. Many DUers accuse President Obama of being a Third Wayer because he entered office

proclaiming that he wanted to reach across the aisle and get things done.

Are you in this camp, too?

[cascadiance]

128. Hmm... Him pushing TPA and TPP harder than anything else begs this question though!

[RoccoR5955]

158. Bull shit!

Ted Kennedy knew when to compromise and when to fight. He fought more than he compromised!

[Nite Owl]

157. Third Wayers are NOT for the

People. They are for Wall St. Or anyone who will give them money.
Corporations first.

[lewebley3]

79. Whatever they were the Dem party and they were winners!

The Clinton's were progressive they raised taxes on the rich,
and chose not to start a war with Iraq.

Historically the best economy ever for the middle class.

[RoccoR5955]

80. Yeah, winners for the 1%

With the trade policies more jobs kept going overseas, and with the repeal of Glass Steagall the banks were headed for the crash of 2007.
Progressive? If you call "ending welfare as we know it" progressive, than I guess it is. As a matter of fact, in Europe, policies like Clinton's are called "neo-liberal."
I don't know about you, but here in NY, more jobs left when Clinton was president, and even more when Clinton was senator. So I don't see where it was so good for us in the lower end of the middle class. Perhaps if you were closer to the top it was better, but not for us working slobs.

[lewebley3]

93. No, you are completely wrong: The Clinton's help rebuild the middle Class

Clinton raised taxes on the rich, and spent money on the
poor and helped build the middle class. That is why
American has most successful economies it helped
most if not all American.

Bush, cut the rich 1% of their taxes 35% 58,000.00 factories were closed:
this is what the GOP wanted


Bush was President in 2007, and the years before that!
You are like Bush trying to blame 911 on Saddam to start war.

The Clinton's not responsible for Bush and GOP policies eight years later

[RoccoR5955]

95. No I am not.

Please cite sources. I know that Clinton got rid of Glass-Steagal, which helped create the issues we had in 2007, when, yes, Bush was president, but Clinton signed the law into effect which led to it. If you do not think that the abolition of Glass-Steagal did not contribute to the economic downfall of 2007, please examine the regulation further.

Clinton lowered the Capital Gains Tax, and lowered the inheritance tax to those with more than $1,000,000. This helped the 1%, and not the middle class in 1997, in case you forgot.

Sorry, but I saw my taxes go up, not down during Clinton's term. He cut spending to the States, so people in my state had to pay more state taxes in order to make up for it.

[lewebley3]

97. Clinton's left office in 2000, not 2007: The Economy was great and we had a surplus!

Glass-Steagal is a left wing talk show pet issue it didn't bring down the economy!

Bush and GOP policy brought down the economy, they were the same as
Hoover's that brought on the great depression



The reason there was a surplus was the Clinton's put American's back to work!


Those just fact!

[RoccoR5955]

98. Glass-Steagal did so lead to the economic collapse

Had banks not been able to invest in sketchy things that they did, because they were banks, and not investment houses, the whole thing would not have collapsed. This is what happened in the first place. Go back and see the history of the great depression.
Profits got big, then too big, and it was because banks didn't have the assets to pay off their depositors. They used it to invest. This is what brought on Glass-Steagal in the first place. Take that away, and you get the depression all over again.

I guess it is correct that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.

[lewebley3]

108. Bush and his buddies were charge of the sec, they wanted all that sketchy things!

In a 14 trillion economy with GOP in charge, Glass-Steagal
is nonsense moot point.

The Glass-Steagal is a left wing talk show host pet issue.

[RoccoR5955]

109. So no blame whatsoever goes to the parties

who actually repealed the law.
That, if you ask me is not at all responsible.
Left wing right wing upper wing lower wing or whatever wing. It was just an irresponsible act. A giveaway to the banking industry.

[lewebley3]

110. Laws don't mean anything to the GOP: they did want they wanted for friends

[lewebley3]

111. One law did not bring the down any 14 trillion economy: That is ieft wing nonsense!

Last edited Mon Aug 3, 2015, 11:07 AM - Edit history (1)

Bush and GOP crashed the economy, just like Hoover did before FDR.

I don't respect people Sanders people when the help the GOP by
attacking a successful Dem Administration.

I am loyal progressive, I don't' attack the people working for the Dem's,
if you think you could do better and get elected be my guest.

[RoccoR5955]

112. It is a fact that the repeal of Glass-Steagal did cause the banking crisis of 2007

To quote a hedge fund manager, James Rickards:
"The oldest propaganda technique is to repeat a lie emphatically and often until it is taken for the truth. Something like this is going on now with regard to banks and the financial crisis. The big bank boosters and analysts who should know better are repeating the falsehood that repeal of Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with the Panic of 2008.

"In fact, the financial crisis might not have happened at all but for the 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall law that separated commercial and investment banking for seven decades. If there is any hope of avoiding another meltdown, it's critical to understand why Glass-Steagall repeal helped to cause the crisis. Without a return to something like Glass-Steagall, another greater catastrophe is just a matter of time."

Here's a link to the entire article: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/08/27/repeal-of-glass-steagall-caused-the-financial-crisis

I am loyal to WE THE PEOPLE, not them, the corporations, regardless of Party affiliation. AFAIC, Clinton was one of the best Republican presidents ever.

[lewebley3]

113. No, is not a fact is your opinion that's all: and it was 8 years later!

[RoccoR5955]

114. Yes, and only YOU know the truth,

because you are a banking expert. Did you even read the article? I didn't think so.
Denial is not a river in Africa. And I see that you subscribe to the teachings of Lenin, who told us "A lie told often enough becomes truth."

Perhaps if you were to read and understand history, this would not be so.

I base my opinion on history. What is your "fact," opinion, or whatever based on? Just the fact that something didn't happen when someone was in office? I guess you do not understand that these things take time. Oh well, I guess everyone cannot learn.

[lewebley3]

115. I know the truth of the successful Clinton Administration: it is now almost 16 years later

Last edited Wed Aug 5, 2015, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I was able to build saving so that I could live through the
GOP years.

[cascadiance]

129. And we now have only 4 companies owning most of our media now too thanks to Clinton!

... when he signed the Telecomm Act communications industry giveaway to consolidation instead of keeping a diverse set of ownership of 50+ companies prior to that actually allowed the press to do some investigative reporting that they did for "All the President's Men" that is a lost art these days when all they talk about is what Lindsay Lohan is doing today or the like.

Even John McCain had the good sense to vote against that POS then that made Clear Channel ('er IHeartRadio as it is disguising itself as today) the monster it is now that has shut down so many avenues for progressive voices over the years (KLSD, KPOJ, etc.) for political and not economic reasons.

[lewebley3]

142. Yes, and l know there is no such thing as a free market: Hillary is a leader!

When she has power, she will have the companies right where
we wants them. She will give the American people a place in the seat of
power. FDR said that to be good President you must be good
poker player. Bernie has no political skills, he would be
a weak player. Sanders has almost no experience dealing with
real opposition. Now is not the time to let him practice on the
Dem party's chances.

We cannot risk the white house with an armature:

[cascadiance]

147. Then why doesn't she want to enable the people's representatives to control it?

We cannot risk the white house with an armature:

Why are you saying that someone needs to be talking about sculpting or or the mechanics of an electric motor to be in the White House. Or is it that YOU are an *AMATEUR* speller trying to pass yourself as an expert in everything else and failing.

You really don't understand that companies and those like the Koch Brothers with their money have politicians like Hillary right where they want her to be in political office the way she's attached to them, or she has suckers like you thinking that she's controlling them, when she and they are really controlling YOU!

FDR also knew when to call "economic royalists" out in public, which today's corporatist candidates really don't do. It falls to people like Bernie to take them on when he's not dependent on their money the way Hillary and so many of the others are.

I think Bernie is showing how he has MORE experience in dealing with real opposition, when he's willing to take on that "opposition" of the corporate money entities that hardly any pol from either party is willing to do these days. And with the support he's generating as more people start to get to know him, I'd say he's succeeding!

If she's so good at dealing with real "opposition", then why doesn't she have a weekly townhall where she has to answer random questions from almost anyone in America the way Bernie has for the last decade or so on Thom Hartmann. The fact is she CAN'T and therefore that is why she won't do that.

Bernie has worked with Republicans like Ron in getting us to audit the Fed in a way that hadn't been done before. That's working with the opposition to get things done!

I think you are showing you have no clue about who "has no political skills"!

[lewebley3]

152. She is a Dem, that means she believes in caring and sharing politics:

You have run out of ideas and arguments when you attack the messenger.

You know I am right, Bernie doesn't have what it takes to be President.

[cascadiance]

155. As Strom Thurmond was in "caring and sharing" because he was a Dem

Dude being a democrat is a LABEL!!!!!!

What is really important for most Americans is the meat and potatoes behind the label, and this party's label has been suffering a lot lately because of the corruption with the likes of the 1%ers that haven't been prosecuted at all by the current Democratic Administration when collapsing our economy with their CRIMINAL acts in both collapsing our economy AND buying off our administration and its employees to not prosecute them even to the extent of what Ronald Reagan did for the Savings and Loan crisis in his day.

I know you are NOT right, even if you have an overinflated sense of what your knowledge is on the subject.

Tell me when Hillary Clinton has the courage to talk to us about most issues like the TPP, H-1B, involvement in war in the middle east, why she wants to through her own actions have our national government's internet and email infrastructure moved towards unaccountable private solutions, etc., amongst many other things that can show that she really "cares" about the future of this country's middle class more than her wealthy buddies, who were the only ones she wanted to talk to here in Portland last night when she told everyone it would cost $2.7k to speak to her when she came here. Bernie's going to be in a forum where the seating capacity is 20k for people to attend this weekend by comparison. THAT is caring more about the average American in my book!

[lewebley3]

163. Storm that was a racist fascists: He belong to the kkk

[daleanime]

22. Sure there are, and you have every right to do so....

and we have every right to say why we think you're wrong.

[Scootaloo]

77. Specifically, you're for Hillary running as an incumbent, unchallenged

Yes. really.

[lewebley3]

78. Hillary: has never been unchallenged: She is always fighting and working

[RoccoR5955]

81. If Mrs. Secretary Clinton is "always fighting and working,"

Please tell me at least three things that she has fought and worked for in the past year?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
Thanks for your prompt response, and have a great day.

[lewebley3]

92. Easy she fought for the Obama's administration, and

Hillary has been preparing for a major fight to take the
White house, and it looks like she did a good job
so far.

It is always a Sanders supporter who wants to start Hillary
political career the day Sanders declared he would run.

That works for you because Sanders has never done anything
but talk in the Senate. ( Hillary is real worker)

Hillary, and other Dem's have leading the Dem party for
30 years, and Sander is just now getting started at 73

[RoccoR5955]

105. Sanders has done more than talk

He has sponsored countless legislation for the middle class.

The Clintons may have been working for 30 years, but where has the middle class gone in the US in the past 30 years.
I want someone who is not the status quo. Someone who is not tied to the large financial institutions, who screwed us over.
I want someone who did not vote for two wars based on lies.
I want someone who marched for human rights in the 60s, not some Goldwater girl.

If Mrs. Clinton has worked for so much, tell me at least three things that she has worked for.
Thank You.

[lewebley3]

106. Legislation that went Know where: Nancy Pelosi has put forward and passed Bills!

The middle class went down under Bush, not the Clinton's,
The Clinton's were a reprieve from GOP policies that why
they were so successful.

Hillary has worked for: Children, women, minorities, the Dem's
the Obama Administrators, the list would fill a library

Bernie has nothing to offer, but he is a nice man!

I want some one competent and a skilled politician to get things
done. Hillay is already loyal to the Dem's!

[RoccoR5955]

116. I don't know who this loyal person you describe as Hillay is but

I don't care about a a person who is loyal to a PARTY, I care about if a person is loyal to WE THE PEOPLE, without ties to them, the corporations.

[lewebley3]

117. I do care what the Dem party is: and I know it stands: Just like Hillary and Obama!

The Dem party is only party large enough to fight the GOP, its
this country only chance to keep the white house

As big as Dem party is, is has chump change to work with,
most Dem's have to go begging; The GOP just has to
call the Koch to write a check.

Thank God for Trump he is going bash the GOP at the debate,
he saving the Dem's a lot of money.

[RoccoR5955]

118. Why do folks think that it is all about money.

I have seen many a local race won by a person who has raised much less money than the opponent.
If this is possible on a local, congressional, or state race, why shouldn't it be possible on a national race.
More volunteers, less paid staff, fewer TV attack ads = less money spent on campaign.
With more volunteers knocking on doors, and doing other things like registering voters, there is a better chance to overcome an opponent with lots and lots of money.
I have done it myself in my local town. I am certain that it can be done on a national level.

[lewebley3]

119. Money is the milk of poltics: Obama got elelcted with piles of money, and Team work

[RoccoR5955]

120. Well if you ask me...

A lot of us are lactose intolerant and need to get off of the milk habit. Besides it is healthier to not drink as much milk when one gets older. There are better ways to get calcium without the lactose and fat in milk!

[lewebley3]

125. Your are in crazy land, it takes money to become President that is a fact.

This why I cannot support people who support Sanders , they
don't live in the real world.

Hillary is actually in the fight to keep the white house out
of GOP hands.

[Indydem]

132. Whoever alerted on this post:

You are a nice, upstanding, important contributor to the DU.

[arcane1]

133. And one of the jurors needs to learn the difference between socialism and facism

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Aug 5, 2015, 12:17 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nope. I will never hide a post critical of Not-A-Democrat Sanders or his fascist supporters.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Depressing rationalization of the status quo, but not seemingly.hideworthy...
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Terrible alert.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an ignorant post, but if ignorance was hide-worthy there would be much less to read on DU. Sincerely, a real-world-dwelling Sanders supporter.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Partisan alert, nothing more.

[William769]

134. Looks like they were not referring to Senator Sanders.

Just saying.

[arcane1]

135. No, but facists don't vote for socialists, and vise-versa :)

[William769]

136. You are correct.

Point driven home.

[arcane1]

137. Exactly. Reminds me of freepers calling Obama a fascist commie

[ismnotwasm]

139. Factually correct of course

But I think the comment was more a rhetorical device.

[lewebley3]

143. I hope this site become valueable, so that Dem's have place to go!

We have a lot of people post, for whatever reason, DU can
raise some money.

With Jon Stewart going, their are few places for non GOP people
to go.

[hedda_foil]

122. If it went know where, please tell us where.to look. If it's nowhere to.be found, that's different.

[RoccoR5955]

15. agreed. n/t

[starroute]

4. They're also equating any opposition to Citizens United with Nazism

That's what the "people and organizations filming documentaries" part means. For anyone who's forgotten, the Citizens United case was about Hillary: The Movie. And they're preemptively trying to head off any attempt to keep the billionaires from buying the candidates of their choice by calling it criminalization of dissent.

[Volaris]

25. Yah thems some Weasel Words right there...

Lol it means they're scared shitless. It also means their WeaselTears will taste that much better.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

34. Precisely. Bernie believes, IMHO correctly, that allowing

Unlimited, anonymous campaign contributions is bad for the electoral process. It's not about "outlawing dissent", it's about restricting the right to buy elections.

[beam me up scottie]

5. He was called a Nazi in the National Review.

They will say and do anything to try to marginalize him.

The fringe candidate who tells the truth and never goes negative.

He'll rise above this too.

[JHB]

32. They've been working the "liberals are the REAL Nazis" for years

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:57 AM - Edit history (1)

NRO editor Jonah "pantload" Goldberg put out a several hundred page doorstop on that subject a few years ago. It was garbage as an historical argument, but then, he wasn't really making one. He was spinning a yarn for people who already wanted yet another excuse for a 24/7 two-minute hate.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

35. It is an article of faith among certain conservatives that the Nazis were leftists

My favorite argument for this view is "Look at the name, National SOCIALISM". Of course, the response to that is "So you must believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy. Look at the name."

I am reminded of a bit from the British political sitcom, Yes, Prime Minister:

Richard: Its full name is the Peoples Democratic Republic of East Yemen.
Humphrey: Ah I see, so it's a communist dictatorship.

[JHB]

38. And if one was talking about the 1920s Nazis, there's a case to be made...

...but they're not interested in such distinctions.

A previous post on the subject:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2836023

But by the time the Nazis became what we Americans know them as (i.e., after Hitler had taken power), Hitler had purged the "socialism for real Germans, and fuck everybody else" faction of the NSDAP during the Night of the Long Knives and its follow-ups.

But that doesn't fit the "liberals are the real fascists" story, so, like good Soviets, they edit out inconvenient history.

[beam me up scottie]

70. They want to turn the word 'socialist' into a slur for 'Nazi'.

The religious right is doing the same thing to liberals, I heard a local minister compare us to ISIS saying we want to "eliminate" Christians who oppose same sex marriage the same way they want to rid the world of Jews.

[47of74]

7. Fuck the National Review.

[stevenleser]

8. Welcome to a national campaign vs the GOP. Sanders supporters need much thicker skin.

Bernie has no doubt reached a threshold in the polls where he has attracted attention from the conservative right.

We have seven months to go before a single primary or caucus. Expect the nastiness from them to escalate.

If you freak out from BLM and need to take timeouts, etc., things are not going to get better.

[nikto]

24. Thanks for the reminder

You may need to keep reminding people of this in the weeks and months ahead.

With Bernie surging, surely great ugliness awaits.

We'd best steel-ourselves a bit, and be ready.

[TM99]

26. Hell this is peanuts

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2015, 06:51 AM - Edit history (1)

compared to what the GOP, Fox News, and MSM have in store for Clinton if she wins the primary.

[Cosmocat]

27. Bernie wont get a pass from the stupid

BHO is a genuinely decent guy, incredibly reserved and conciliatory, a perfect family man, charming and had literally no history and it has been one circus like attack after another.

If he continues to build into a truly viable threat to be potus, they will turn from hill toward bernie with all their vile bs just like they did w bho.

[TM99]

30. Never said he would.

But Clinton has a long history of real and false scandals that will be chump for the sharks if she is the primary winner. That is just the reality.

[Cosmocat]

37. "Reality" is Bernie will get it just the same

Like BHO, the moment Bernie becomes the democratic front runner, they will drop the Hill hate crush like a rock and turn full barrels on Bernie, and it will be his flag pin, his jeremiah wright, etc.

Lots of reasons to argue for Bernie, but this channels repubilcan memes, that it is about Hill.

It isn't, Bernie will get the same bullshit thrown at him that Hill gets thrown at her, BHO gets thrown at him, what Gore, Dean, Kerry got ...

People want to have it both ways, say he is somehow different and won't get attacked like hill, then get all histrionic when there is something that isn't glowing praise of him.

[TM99]

39. Only to Democratic Party partisans

is the idea that Clinton is going to get more shit in the general a 'GOP meme'. It is not.

I know long time party faithful who will never vote for Clinton. I know Republicans who literally despise Clinton.

You are creating a whole of straw men in this post to deflect from this truth.

Yes, they will attack Sanders. Yes, they will attack any Democrat. Some attacks are going to be harder to fend off when they have some basis in reality which Clinton's do.

[Cosmocat]

40. Have you not been awake the last 8 years?

BHO has seen every bit of the vile stupidity that Hillary Clinton would have.

Sorry, it is channeling a republican meme to say that Hillary is to blame for republicans being jackasses.

[TM99]

41. How old are you kid?

If you were around in the 1990's with the Clinton's you would have seen shit that makes the few things the GOP have done to Obama look like flower parades.

She is not to blame. She and her husband simply have 40 years of baggage.

Take you blue team red team bullshit elsewhere.

[Cosmocat]

43. Last go around on this

I was there for the 90s, and unlike you I have been here the last 8 years.

And, save your red team, blue team quip.

Part of why I turned to support bho was that I thought they might be a less of jackasses to him than they would have been to hill.

What the last 8 years has taught anyone who isnt biased on this is that if they treat a truly decent guy with "no baggage" with evry bit of jackassery as they treated bill, they will treat ANY democrat the same way.

John kerry served, was wounded in battle and received honors for his service.

When the rs and msm got done with him, he was an unpatriotic, weak coward.

You arent dealing in "reality" if you think like kerry, like gore, like bho they wont tear bernie apart somehow.

[TM99]

44. Whatever.

Seriously, I know the reality.

No need to go back and forth.

[dbackjon]

48. If they will not vote for the Democratic Nominee

And thus helping usher in a President Cruz or Walker, then they are not long-time party faithful.

[TM99]

55. Or they are sick of the Clinton lies and bullshit?

Or maybe they don't want another New Dem?

[dbackjon]

60. So if Clinton wins the nomination

They are going to help Scott Walker destroy America?

Have him appoint 3-5 SCOTUS nominees?


That attitude does not belong in the Democratic Party, or on this website.


If you are not willing to vote for whomever wins the primary, you need to find another place to spew.

[TM99]

61. Not this tired shit again.

If Clinton wins, to meet the TOS requirements I must not work against her or support another candidate. Likely I will just leave for a few months and come back after she has lost.

That is all.

I am a progressive leftist independent, and I am as welcome here as you are not withstanding my 'party loyalty'.

[dbackjon]

62. Again, you are going to help a Republican appoint the next 3-5 SCOTUS Nominees

No, attitudes like that are NOT welcome here.

[LordGlenconner]

85. Some covet the struggle

You presume this poster cares about a Walker or Cruz in the WH. The reality is they do not care.

[artislife]

101. Faithful to what???

The are a lot of people hurting here and the view between the difference of a Bernie and Hillary is huge.

[dbackjon]

103. And a President Walker would be better??

Get a grip on reality. Support Bernie. Convince people to vote for him.


But if Hillary wins the nomination, she is 1,000,000 times better than the best GOP Candidate.

[artislife]

104. Sadly...that is probably 100% true.

And still so in the middle.

When I get my absentee ballot, I will hopefully choose for the greater good. If I survive the primaries.

[stevenleser]

53. The Socialism meme vs Bernie has "some basis in reality" too. And that trumps everything else.

Everyone from center left to far right will hold that against Bernie.

[stevenleser]

42. No, Clinton hate is a hobby for the GOP. Hatred of Socialism, now that is a religion for them.

Even if Bernie never reaches higher than he has gotten now in the polls, it's too convenient for Conservative media folks and Republican politicians to bash the person who has the word Socialism in their self identified party affiliation and belief system.

The whole Democratic Socialist vs Social Democrat distinction is a nuance that will never get as much play as "HE'S A SOCIALIST!!!!!!11!!1!!"

They want to run against someone who self identifies as a Socialist. Nothing will gin up their base more than that, not even another Clinton running.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

49. Not only do they not distinguish between Democratic Socialism and Social Democrats

The vast majority of them don't have a clue about socialism. They just know "socialism bad juju."

I recently had a conservative tell me he was an expert on Marxism because he had read The Communist Manifesto. Since I knew this man was a Catholic, I replied that this was the equivalent to declaring oneself an expert on Catholic theology on the basis of having read The Baltimore Catechism (a simplistic outline of Catholicism aimed specifically at children).

[stevenleser]

54. Exactly right, well said. And it will be almost impossible to explain that in the heat of a campaign

No one will care, or at least very few folks will care.

Bernie folks are concerned with the trouble they are having with the #Blacklivesmatter issue, they're finding out that once that kind of a thing gets started, trying to hold it back is like a puppy trying to hold back a tsunami (which by the way they SHOULDNT be trying to hold that back, they should listen and ride the wave, not try to oppose it, but that is another issue). That is NOTHING compared to what will happen with the Socialism meme if and when it comes to that.

[kenfrequed]

131. Too true

I would further point out that ALL Democrats are socialists today which makes the "socialism" accusation just a bunch of bunk.

[Cosmocat]

28. Been saying this all along

The histrionics and ginned outrage in the VERY eary hours of a fairly non descript primary to this point ...

Not even 1/100 of the stupid bernie faces if he continues to build into a truly viable threat for the nomonation.

[marble falls]

9. What a low life scum sucking attack in a time of monumental low life scum sucking attacks.

[Enthusiast]

36. I like the way you said that.

[MisterP]

11. can't these pants-pissers even get their bigotries straight? it's Communism that you're supposed to

tar with the "Yid" brush and vice versa!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

12. This was to be expected

They are very afraid of his message.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win

[uhnope]

14. so embarrassing. It's like there is no Conservative voice left that's not idiotic and/or nuts

[turbinetree]

17. The National Review.....................

where do you begin with an organization that was founded during the Goldwater days running around with there fellow John Birchers screaming and yelling

And this little tid bit about the National review:

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/09/racism_and_the_national_review/

[awoke_in_2003]

18. Republicans do projection...

better than Sony.

[V0ltairesGh0st]

19. FUCK NRO

[YOHABLO]

20. Well to be honest I don't think many Americans really know what National Socialism entails.

To equate Sanders to Nazism is ludicrous, but these people are desperate so we'll be hearing the word ''socialist / and socialism'' brought up more and more. And not just by the right, but it's already used by the 3rd way shill Clair McCaskill.

[appalachiablue]

73. IL Duce! Benito Sanders- run for your life!

[LiberalElite]

21. He's finally arrived.

IMO after six years of calling Obama a Nazi that pejorative has had to have lost some sting.

[nikto]

23. National Review is actually *The National Socialist Review*

[Cosmocat]

29. Neither the conservatives or the lapdog media are going to genuflect Bernie

The histionics here in the early stages of what has been a fairly non descript primary to this point have been surreal.

You havent seen anything yet if Bernie continues to build, and sorry, the nazi stuff is weak sauce for them, just their standard fair throwing around bad sounding political prejoratives they dont have the first what they mean.

Such time as he reaches that point that they truly see him as this partys candidate they will drop hill as their hate crush and trun on him with everything they have like they did on bho 7 years ago.

Bernie "has nothing to attack" is fantastical thinking.

Hes a democrat, they dont need anything reality based to attack him.

Hell, kerry served, was wounded in battle and received honors and when theywere done w him he was some weak, america hating coward.

[Enthusiast]

31. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

On the political spectrum Bernie Sanders is the exact opposite of a Nazi.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of Kevin Williamson and the National Review.

[jtuck004]

33. Reminds me of FDR. And he welcomed their hatred <G> n/t

[W T F]

45. They would call the Pope a Nazi if it served their agenda.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

52. Rush Limbaugh called Pope Francis a Marxist

Basically because Francis is not a cheerleader for laissez-faire capitalism

[d_legendary1]

46. Way to kill whatever credibility the NR had left

Never read it so who cares what they think.

[RKP5637]

51. Sen. Pat Roberts, Kansas. LOL! His own state is so F'en bad he doesn't even live there. n/t

[JNelson6563]

56. I can smell their fear.

I predict another excellent vintage!

[stuffmatters]

68. Nazi "national socialists" were socialists as much as "arbeit macht frei"

I spent a majority of the seventies researching, interviewing and writing about the prominent artists, scientists and intellectual Hitler Exiles (from Freud to Billy Wilder.) This equation of 30's socialists in Germany with Nazi National Socialism is not only the height of ignorance and stupidity, it's also totally offensive to all those millions of victims of Nazi genocide.

In PostWWI Germany, socialism was the widespread political equivalent of our current democratic party...the majority of educated people who believed in social and economic justice defined themselves as socialists. The socialist party in postWWI Germany unilaterally opposed the rise of Hitler, corporate fascism and Nazi Germany. Those who didn't escape suffered Nazi atrocities.

Rightwing ignoramuses seem to have no ability to decipher propaganda phrasing even from Hitler's machine.

Moreover I've never seen any Rightwing discussions of Grandpa Prescott Bush's support of the Nazis or Papa Koch's fortune building with both Nazi Germany & Stalin. If they want to talk ideological ancestry, and connect some factual dots, start there.

[renegade000]

82. hell, it doesn't even require the ability to decipher propaganda

It just requires the ability to read a goddamn history book, or Wikipedia, or something other than their own propaganda.

Hell, I'm not going to say anything that you don't already know, but I was likewise outraged by this. It is indeed both "the height of ignorance and stupidity" and "totally offense" as you put.

The stalwart defender, right up to the bitter end, of the Weimar Republic was the Social Democratic Party (SPD). It's right there in the damn name. "Social Democrat", you know the thing Sanders self-identifies with.

The SPD were the only ones with enough chutzpah to vote against the Enabling Act of 1933, despite the inception of the Nazi reign of political intimidation and power consolidation. Their leader at that time, Otto Wels, gave one hell of a swan song and final F-you to the Nazi's in his speech opposing the act (http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/docpage.cfm?docpage_id=2262). Ending with this:

The gentlemen of the National Socialist party call the movement they have unleashed a national revolution, not a National Socialist one. So far, the relationship of their revolution to socialism has been limited to the attempt to destroy the social democratic movement, which for more than two generations has been the bearer of socialist ideas and will remain so. If the gentlemen of the National Socialist Party wanted to perform socialist acts, they would not need an Enabling Law. They would be assured of an overwhelming majority in this house. Every motion submitted by them in the interest of workers, farmers, white-collar employees, civil servants, or the middle class could expect to be approved, if not unanimously, then certainly with an enormous majority.

And yet, they first want to eliminate the Reichstag in order to continue their revolution. But the destruction of that which exists does not make a revolution. The people are expecting positive accomplishments. They are waiting for effective measures against the terrible economic misery that exists not only in Germany but in the whole world. We Social Democrats bore the responsibility in the most difficult of times and for that we had stones cast at us. Our accomplishments for the reconstruction of the state and the economy, for the liberation of occupied territories, will stand the test of history. We have established equal justice for all and a social labor law. We have helped to create a Germany in which the path to leadership of the state is open not only to princes and barons, but also to men from the working class. You cannot back away from that without relinquishing your own leader. The attempt to turn back the wheel of history will be futile. We Social Democrats know that one cannot undo the facts of power politics with mere legal protests. We see the power-political fact of your present rule. But the people’s sense of justice is also a political power, and we shall not cease to appeal to this sense of justice.

The Weimar Constitution is not a socialist constitution. But we stand by the principles enshrined in, the principles of a state based on the rule of law, of equal rights, of social justice. In this historic hour, we German Social Democrats solemnly pledge ourselves to the principles of humanity and justice, of freedom and socialism. No Enabling Act gives you the power to destroy ideas that are eternal and indestructible. After all, you yourselves have professed your adherence to Socialism. The Socialist Law has not destroyed social democracy. German social democracy will draw new strength also from the latest persecutions.

We greet the persecuted and the oppressed. We greet our friends in the Reich. Your steadfastness and loyalty deserve admiration. The courage of your convictions and your unbroken optimism guarantee a brighter future.

I think it's pretty clear that the SPD took a dim view of the purported socialism of the NSDAP. They certainly hated Hitler and the Nazis and their allies. Which is another aspect of that horrible piece. The equation of political hatred (either of ideologies or individual political personalities) with ethnic hatred of the sort manifested by the Nazis. If you hate Nazis, it means I get to call you one .

If only the other parties of the Weimar coalition had such a hatred.

[stuffmatters]

89. On MTP Bernie should remind all that German SocialistDs were The AntiHitler Party

Isn't it amazing how the vile RW has incorporated this NAZI tactic of factual perversion into their labeling...I think of it every
time I see the title of a repub bill ...women's "protection acts", "right to work", "taxpayer relief", "environmental protection", "save social security/medicare"... always completely the opposite in content and anti women, anti worker, anti majority taxpayers, anti
soc sec & medicare.

I don't know how it's become such a frequent and easy "thing" for the RW to make such an ignorant, counterfactual and vile "literal" connection between Nazi's & Socialism. But I see this breathtaking stupidity from the RW contributors more and more in mainstream blog sites. It's truly sickening.

I hope Bernie specifically calls out this National Review editorial tomorrow and denounces it for the disgusting lie and hideous stupidity it represents. He would do well to remind everyone that it was the Socialist (Dem) Party which fought the hardest against Hitler & fascism. And they were murdered for it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Well I am not surprised

Sorry. I expect it. And I expect it soon to be far more widespread.

[Sancho]

75. Seems like the far right has seen Bernie now!

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ted-cruz-bernie-sanders-is-the-only-democrat-standing-up-to-corporate-cronyism/

Ted Cruz: Bernie Sanders Is the Only Democrat Standing Up to Corporate Cronyism

During an interview with Chris Matthews on Hardball, Ted Cruz called out the Democratic Party for using a lot of rhetoric about opposing big business and big money, while at the same time supporting welfare and corporate cronyism.

Cruz said that amongst all the Democrats and Republicans indulging in this practice, Bernie Sanders is the only 2016 candidate who admits that he’s a socialist as a way of identifying with frustration about such practices amongst voters.

“The difference is I think there are an awful lot of crass in the United States Senate, whose policies are every bit as liberal or socialist but they don’t admit it,” Cruz said. He went on to describe how he was enjoying watching Hillary Clinton trying to play up the same points as Sanders, while at the same time, trying to not appear like too much of a socialist herself.

“The reason I focused on Bernie Sanders is he is one of the few to stand against it,” Cruz said. The senator then described how Sander’s strategy was similar to President Obama‘s in the sense that he was honest enough to examine and channel that angst.

[BainsBane]

84. That may be because they fear he is drawing too many of their voters

Hillary 57% overall support
64% identifying at very liberal
58% identifying as liberal
59% identifying as moderate
37% identifying as somewhat conservative
27% identifying as very conservative

Sanders 22% overall support
26% identifying at very liberal
19% identifying as liberal
16% identifying as moderate
31% identifying as somewhat conservative
42% identifying as very conservative

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_72215.pdf

[Comrade Grumpy]

90. Why do you think that is? Seriously. I find it somewhat mystifying.

I can't think of any way his message or his policies can be called conservative.

Maybe there are economically-challenged conservatives who agree with his economic message?

Or is it the old white guy with white hair factor? (That would be dumb enough for conservatives to go for it.)

Or are these conservative Democrats?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

94. Economics. I work with a guy...

from Nicaragua. His family were wealthy landowners and they all loved Ronnie Raygun. He's a great guy, but has had some challenges over the years. He talks -- A LOT -- about Sanders and his positions on a $15/hr minimum wage, plus 6-weeks' paid vacation. He's well-travelled and all for BIG investment in public transportation and infrastructure. He believed in "trickle-down economics" at one time, but realizes that oh, yes, he's been trickled down on alright. We all have, at least the 99%. There are A LOT of people out there for whom the system is not working, and Bernie's message will resonate with them. The stock market may be soaring, but that doesn't mean shit when you're trying to scrape by on $10.50/hr.

[dionysus]

96. dunno, but calling Bernie conservative (rofl) in a desperation move to support hillary has me

laughing my ass off....

[artislife]

102. I don't mind the attacks from the right

It is the attacks of the middle that set my teeth on edge.

[ibegurpard]

138. they're not middle

They are the Rockefeller Republicans who abandoned the increasingly crazy Republican party along with the "go team" faithful who are OK with anything as long as a Democrat is the one doing it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

150. Strictly speaking, if you're on the left (as I am), all of those attacks are coming from your right.

It's a matter of degrees--a centrist Dem is still ten times better than a typical whack Republican, but all of them are off to the right of Senator Sanders, to the right of me, and of you.

[NCTraveler]

130. Welcome to the national stage Sanders.

Republicans don't play nice.

[Autumn]

159. The attacks from the Left are getting ugly too.

Those I find disgusting.