This entire presidential campaign season is turning out to be a clusterf**ck of epic proportions

[Yavin4]

Do you agree?

[brooklynite]

1. No.

I think the Democratic Party process is running very smoothly.

[Thinkingabout]

2. Agree.

[NCTraveler]

3. I think it is great and will flush out the best the party has to offer in the end.

It's a clusterfuck on du. The rest of the country is being presented with Clinton, O'Malley and Sanders. Three excellent people presenting excellent ideas. The clown car is also on parade and the difference on display is a thing of beauty.

[Cracklin Charlie]

9. Hilarious to watch!

It seems like the media, national and local, is desperate to make the clowns in the car appear to be serious candidates. Which means, of course, that there is no time to present any information about the contenders that actually know how to govern.

You couldn't mash the clowns all up together and make one decent candidate!

[NCTraveler]

10. In my opinion, many of the GOP are using citizens united....

are using citizens united, and the changes it brought, as a way to run for their senate or house seat. They see the ability to raise funds in a manner that appears to be for a presidential campaign, while using said funds to simply promote themselves in their next election. Not sure if it is good or bad that many dems aren't following suit.

[underpants]

26. The media sells drama

Without a supposedly viable opposition there is no drama.

[ismnotwasm]

32. Now THAT is an excellent point

[FSogol]

4. Maybe for the GOP, we have 5 candidates, each who would make a decent president

and are light years better than the best GOP candidate.

Not seeing a clusterfuck on our side.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. "Goat rodeo" is the term I usually use for such situations

but I'm applying it only to the GOP. The Dems' campaigns, OTOH seem to be going well, involving sane, normal people.

[2naSalit]

6. I thnk that

the RWers have been trying to destroy the democratic process for decades and this is just part of the program, make everything so ridiculously outrageous that it becomes one gigantic fail. That's what I've noticed since the impeachment of Clinton. Seems to be working to some degree.

[SalviaBlue]

21. I agree.

The Cons hate government and are doing everything they can to destroy our democracy.

... make it so small it can be drowned in a bathtub...

[el_bryanto]

7. Well . . . no more so than usual. nt

[sufrommich]

8. No, not on the democratic side.The GOP has been heading for

a clusterfuck of a primary since 2008,so it's not surprising.

[earthside]

11. Yes.

The Repuglicans, well, for them it is a disaster of epic proportions no doubt.
Still, their nominee could very well get elected President -- don't doubt that for a second.

For the Democrats, it is mostly just depressing and uninspiring up to this point.
Unless rank-and-file activists get out of their conservative funk and tell Hillary Clinton to take a hike, then the 2016 contest will be a catastrophe of epic proportions for the party and the nation.

The Sander's candidacy offers some hope that Democrats have not become completely moribund and captives of Wall Street ... but let's face it, the corporate power in the Democratic Party is very strong and may be unstoppable.

[Juicy_Bellows]

22. I agree.

Unless rank-and-file activists get out of their conservative funk and tell Hillary Clinton to take a hike, then the 2016 contest will be a catastrophe of epic proportions for the party and the nation.

Yes, I think if we can get Sanders through to the general there may be enough groundswell to truly change things within the party. I feel that he would bring people to the general that haven't voted in their entire lives. His message resonates and the more that hear it the better.

[LuvLoogie]

34. There are rank and file activists that have been and will be

working for Hillary's election. They are real people, with real brains and real commitment, and they are really excited. Sorry if you are in a funk.

[Juicy_Bellows]

36. Of that I have no doubt.

However, I always keep it funky.

Cheers!

[LuvLoogie]

38. Now THAT was fun!

[Vattel]

12. If you mean on DU, not really.

The war between the Sanders clan and the Clinton clan is not surprising because many of the belligerents have been at it for years on DU. That's because, to over-simplify a bit, the more leftwing types have mostly joined the Sanders clan while the more mainstream types have mostly joined the Clinton clan. (I tried my best to find neutral language here to describe the types; so give me a break if the labels aren't perfect)

War is hell, but I wouldn't call a war that could not possibly have been avoided a clusterfuck. So no, the campaign season on DU has not been a clusterfuck. I am open to the possibility, though, that my use of the term clusterfuck is too narrow.

[Prism]

14. This is my perception as well

The same amorphous groups that disliked each other before the primaries don't seem to like each other now. There are just fresh fights to be had now. It's the same Ideological Left vs Democratic Partisan break down. The one place I see a little bit of movement is from people who really love President Obama and retain their negative perception of Secretary Clinton from the 2008 primaries. I've been surprised by more than a few Obama partisans who are pro-Sanders. I just assumed they would've been for Clinton. But, that's what I get for making assumptions. What I assumed was party partisanship was actually just strong Obama support. Misreading on my part.

[Vattel]

18. Yes there is that sort of exception.

What is kind of interesting (in an anthropological sort of way) is that some of the Obama partisans who have declared their support for Sanders have written a lot of posts that make them seem more like supporters of Clinton. It seems like they are torn between their disgust towards Clinton and their hatred of most members of the Sanders clan.

[Prism]

25. We need more beserkers

Who will flail in all directions, bringing chaos and disorientation in their wake.

Just for the unpredictability factor. Most threads, I can glance at the names and surmise everything that's being said without reading. Zzzz.

[Vattel]

37. I definitely agree that we need more beserkers!

Edited to add: Then again, the problem with being a beserker is that your sincerity will be doubted because you don't consistently side with one of the warring clans. Before long you will be universally despised, having pissed off everyone. Then you will be written off as a shit-stirrer or troll, and then you will be one misstep away from a tombstone that, if there were justice in the world, would read: Here lies someone that had too much intellectual integrity and independence of thought to survive at DU.

This is tongue-in-cheek of course, although there is a little truth in it. In reality, I like DU partly because I learn a lot from the many very intelligent and thoughtful people who post here, and partly because I just like debating shit.

[Maedhros]

35. That declared "support" for Sanders is a smoke screen

so that they can insert their pro-Hillary talking points into Sanders threads.

[Prism]

13. I'm really glad gay marriage is resolved

I would not want to watch that issue footballed the way racial issues are by partisans. I'd have an aneurysm.

[randome]

17. The GOP hasn't made an insulting comment about gay marriage for about a week now, have they?

Strange. I wonder what's up with that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Prism]

23. I honestly don't think the Establishment cares

Most Establishment Republicans are wealthy DC insiders who spend far more time in cities among the educated and the monied classes rather than doing ranch work in some rural backwater. They have gay friends and family who they socialize with, invite into their homes, share meals with. It's like with Bush. From every single account I ever read about the man, he just never seemed very bothered by actual gay people. It didn't stop him from pushing the FMA, but it was purely a cynical Rovian calculation to whip up the bigoted base for the 2004 election (and it definitely had an effect).

So, I don't think the masters of the party really care. Even the Koch brothers have publicly stated they really couldn't give a fig.

With the cultural shift towards acceptance and the historical trend line of that acceptance undeniable, I don't think the GOP sees it as a long-term winning issue. They want it to go away. Several responses in the aftermath of the SCOTUS decision by the more "mainstream" candidates seem to bear this out. It was very, "I don't agree with this activist court, but it's done now. Let's move on." (the right-wing religious candidates of course went apeshit, but none of them outside of maybe Walker have a prayer of being a serious candidate).

Unless Walker turns out to be the nominee, I don't expect to hear much about it outside of insincere pandertastic muttering.

[Adrahil]

15. Over at the GOP? Yup. Among Dems? Nah.....

There is a little (and by a little, I mean a lot) nastiness here, but so far, the Democratic Primary process is going fairly well.

[Armstead]

16. Isn't it always? The names and campaigns change, but the cluster and the fuck are ever preent

[Android3.14]

19. As opposed to other campaign seasons?

Seems about par for the course.

[AJH032]

20. I'm actually very proud of our candidates

They aren't attacking each other like those in the Republican primaries. There appears to be a good level of mutual respect.

[ericson00]

24. see, that's why I'm for keeping the Democratic nominating process nice and orderly

as possible, unlike the GOP Barnum & Trump circus.

[villager]

27. I think the *country* is turning into that.

Alas.

[RandySF]

28. No

[Scootaloo]

29. Only because the clusterfucking started six months ahead of schedule n/t

[Cheese Sandwich]

30. It's just a feeling but, this is already a particularly nasty primary season.

2008 was kind of like that too. Mrs. Clinton was a common element in both. I feel like the Clinton campaign will do anything to win.

I don't recall too many very tense or nasty primaries on the Democratic side, besides those. I'm thinking back through 1992, 2000, 2004, 2008...

[Metric System]

33. Outside of DU, the Democratic primary has not been nasty at all. There was fighting on DU during the

2004 primaries as well.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Showbiz and advertising. Same as most other campaigns.

This one might be a bit more entertaining than most.