Racism is a tool of the wealthy used to keep poor people from uniting.

[hootinholler]

If you think about it, it wasn't until Martin had a really good shot at uniting the poor of all colors that he was assassinated. The social (racial) justice thing was acceptable, the economic justice thing was not.

This guy has a pretty good primer on what is happening:

I believe the current attacks on Bernie about race are designed to accomplish the same old goal, keeping the poor poor and the rich in charge.

[wendylaroux]

1. Excellent!

thank you !

[ruffburr]

2. Divide and conquer

This is and has been the motis operandi of the 1 percent for many many years keep the Black folk fighting with the Latino folk ,the whites fighting against both by saying" they are taking your jobs with illegal immigration or affirmative action" It's all bull shit designed to keep the masses from fighting the 1 percent, Wake up don't let this charade go on, Bernie is being attacked by the status quo who's main interest is to keep the divide going between the people, Look at history and it becomes obvious who's pulling the strings of this puppet show, They will use BLM and illegal immigration to maintain the divide while they laugh at the foolish suckers behind closed doors.

[el_bryanto]

3. I don't agree or I don't think that explains all of it

I do agree that Republicans and the media slamming Bernie on this issue are a bit of that. But I think that there are plenty of Clinton supporters who are opposing Sanders for more practical reasons (i.e. he isn't as likely to win, and if he does win, he isn't as likely to get get his program passed through congress).

We'll see what happens if Bernie starts doing better and particularly if he wins the primary; but already his campaign ahs had the effect of pulling Clinton more leftwards; a trend that I hope continues.

Bryant

[JI7]

14. sanders supported the 1994 crime bill

[TM99]

47. Yes, he did because

it also included the COPS program and a violence against women act.

If he voted against those things, you would be bleating on about that.

So this meme has lost its legs so to speak.

[George II]

89. "he did because it also included the COPS program and a violence against women act"?

That's the ONLY reason? Hardly.

But that COPS program aided the ability of police officers to incarcerate hundreds of thousands, probably millions, of minority men?

Your excuse sounds good when trying to justify voting for that legislation.

How about the Brady Bill? The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act?

[TM99]

126. I have explained this several times for you

Clinton hacks.

It was an omnibus bill. There was shit in it. There was good in it. Only y'all think he is or should be a purist. He voted for the good like all the other liberals in congress. Give shit to him, give shit to your beloved Clinton and the rest of the D's in congress.

Bringing up the Brady Bill and PLCAA are red herrings. They have ZERO to do with this sub-thread. But hey nice try.

[SonderWoman]

15. Hillary speaks to the minority community, not at them.

If you can't understand why we support her you probably never will. It is astonishing that people think minority communities want less policing and more crime. I'm active in my community meetings and the #1 topic at every meeting is calling for more policing and less crime, including less drug dealing. We want a good relationship with police, just like every other community is afforded.

[JI7]

19. its not Sanders who is the problem

He isn't claiming certain groups owe him support.

[Adrahil]

58. No he isn't, but....

the fact is AA's in the Democratic party are supporting Clinton in huge numbers, to the consternation of some of his supporters. Many of them are perplexed as to why. I'd say that the perception that Bernie's focus on racism as a consequence of economic inequality is part of the explanation. Note that I say perception. I won't argue here whether that perception is accurate or not.

[George II]

129. Really? How many times have we heard "I marched with MLK in 1963"?

[Sunlei]

134. I never get tired of hearing that because in 1963 not many * Americans wanted to march with MLK

*non- black

[SonderWoman]

20. That makes no sense to anything I posted.

I stated Hillary talks to our community, with them, not at them.

[AgingAmerican]

25. Hillary thinks what the focus group of the moment

...tells her to think.

[7962]

29. And thats the perfect way to put it.

Which is why its SO hard to get her to do appearances that are not controlled by her group. No unscheduled questions. When she goes off script, she slips up and tells the truth. Or puts her foot in her mouth

[SonderWoman]

31. Not at all true. She speaks and listens with passion.

[AgingAmerican]

35. She robotically repeats whatever her handlers tell her to say

She is a corporate candidate. Follow the money.

[SonderWoman]

39. She's been speaking to minority communities since the 90's.

It's obvious you are biased against her and won't listen to reason. As a minority myself, you should pay attention, instead of talking at us.

[AgingAmerican]

41. She will not talk about economics

And she refuses to state her opinions on many issues. She is the corporate candidate. Follow the money.

If you want a continuation of the corporate status quo, support Hillary.

[SonderWoman]

46. She doesn't speak about economics?

She has already released economic plans and many other plans. You may need to brush up a bit.

[AgingAmerican]

50. Because her economics are crap

And won't fly with most Democrats. She supports economics that directly harm minorities, like the TPP. So she just doesn't talk about it.

Follow the money. Look at the issues she refuses to discuss.

[SonderWoman]

55. Again, perhaps brush up a bit?

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/the-four-fights/economy-of-tomorrow/

And trade deals benefit minorities here and around the globe.

[calimary]

87. Welcome to DU, SonderWoman!

Glad you're here. But just understand, you're wasting your time and your breath on arguments like this. Those you're hoping to reach here are not listening. Nor are they receptive. They're already devoted to the candidate they prefer.

[Skittles]

137. agreed

I will never forgive Hillary's IWR vote but the folk who give her credit for nothing completely SUCK

[BooScout]

111. Welcome to DU....

It's nice to see facts and reasonable discourse. It's hard to find around here lately.

[jwirr]

60. Exactly what does talking at mean? Does it mean that if I disagree with you I am talking at you?

Have lived with my family in a family of POC since the 60s and have never been accused of talking at them or any of the members of our community. So I am really curiously how this is done.

Hillary makes a speech. Bernie makes a speech. O'Malley makes a speech. I do not see Hillary talking any different about any of the issues. I mostly see her ignoring most of the issues of today and saying no more than the others on race.

And do not tell me passion. I do not listen to tone of voice or some portrayed emotion that may or may not mean anything. I listen to the issues. All the issues that matter to the future of America and the world. That includes BlackLivesMatter but does not exclude a lot of other issues that are of vital importance to our country.


Since all the candidates pretty much say the same things on racism and police brutality then I want to know about the other issues from each candidate. And I want that is detail just like I want the BLM issues in detail.

These other issues are not unimportant. They affect POC also - I give a damn that my great grandchildren do not have enough to eat. That they live in substandard housing, That their parents do not make enough to live on even when both of them are working full time. I care that they can get a good education. And I care that they will have a world left over when the rich stop polluting it.

And yes, I care that they are not safe from police violence and mass incarceration when they walk our of the door every day.

[1StrongBlackMan]

125. Talking AT someone is ...

speaking your piece ... hearing that they disagree (or not) ... and continuing to say the same thing because you know what is best for them, or because don't care that they disagree with your conclusion ... because you know what is best for them.

[sheshe2]

130. Drop the Mic.

[bettyellen]

143. I have to laugh that someone insists you explain it to them....

I am working on a good friend who does that, because it's obnoxious- and I can;t abide it during our poker games anymore.
Good lord how he goes on about the oligarchy. And I'm like, I know dude, the twelve points are drilled into my damned head already. LOL.

[bobbobbins01]

64. "It's obvious you are biased against her and won't listen to reason."

Says the person making the appeal to emotion. When you throw around meaningless phrases like "talking at vs talking to" you have no business trying to pretend you're the one using reasoning skills in the argument.

[sheshe2]

95. Actually, I agree with SonderWoman.

Says the person making the appeal to emotion. When you throw around meaningless phrases like "talking at vs talking to" you have no business trying to pretend you're the one using reasoning skills in the argument.

I have used that phrase myself. When you talk "at" you are telling them how they should think and feel. It is a speech. When you "talk" to them, it becomes a conversation. Talking with someone and listening to someone makes a huge difference.

[bobbobbins01]

139. I do know what it is.

And it doesn't apply one bit here, which makes it meaningless.

[George II]

108. Probably even earlier.....good observation on the bias, though.

By the way, welcome to DU! Enjoy the site.

[BooScout]

104. Handlers?

You really don't know Hillary at all. Enlighten us all with who her handlers are. Do you think Hillary waited for a handler to tell her what to say when Jeb Bush stuck his foot in his mouth about women's health issues?

Well pardon me but bullshit, Hillary is not 'handled' by anyone.....and anyone who mistakenly makes that assumption about her will never get the fact that she speaks her mind and doesn't wait until she is told what to say.

[jwirr]

42. Well then a lot of us are not seeing that passion.

[tularetom]

106. How does someone listen with passion?

Just curious.

[George II]

48. That idea is getting a little worn out.

[SonderWoman]

57. Especially since that idea has no factual basis.

[NanceGreggs]

90. Links?

Why not try backing-up that statement with some actual facts? You know what facts, are don't you?

So let's hear it - and BTW, by facts I don't mean "everybody else on DU is saying it, so it must be true."

Please post links to the focus groups you're referring to, and any communications between those groups and the HRC camp. And kindly include any statements made by HRC herself, or anyone on her behalf, referring to what they've been told by these "focus groups", and what their reaction/response has been.

It's easy (especially hereabouts) to say things like "Hillary does what her 'handlers' tell her to do." So while you're at it, you might also provide links to who HRC's "handlers" are, and exactly WHAT they've told her to say - just so we all know you're not just making shit up.

There was a time on DU - seems so long ago now - that if you posted totally fabricated crapola like that, especially about a Democrat, you had to back it up or shut up. I realize that no longer applies, and anyone (Dem or otherwise) can now post whatever bullshit comes into their head. But that doesn't stop me - or anyone else here - from challenging you to provide the actual FACTS that support your assertions.

So go to it. Tell ALL of us here about how Hillary is being led by the nose by her "handlers", and provide the details of what you KNOW (not think or surmise, but KNOW) and how you know it. Name names, meeting times and places; provide email exchanges, and the times and content of phone conversations.

We're all waiting ...

[sheshe2]

97. Goddess forbid, a woman is to stupid to speak for herself? WTF?

Women need handlers.

Is this really what some believe here? Sad, isn't it Nance?

I await with you for all the links they will provide.

[NanceGreggs]

102. Well, if you're waiting ...

... I suggest you don't hold your breath.

So tired of this bullshit - not only about Hillary, but about Obama and pretty much any Democrat.

How many times have we all seen "Obama didn't get single-payer through because he didn't try"? I guess we're all meant to assume that dozens (if not hundreds) of DUers were privy to ALL of Obama's meetings, phone calls, email exchanges, etc., which puts them in a position to know exactly how much time and effort he exerted on the issue.

It's amazing how much "insider info" people on DU are privy to - and yet they never seem to be able to back up a thing they say.

Go figure!

[sheshe2]

115. Ha!

The only time I hold my breath is when I have hiccups. Dayum hiccups are irritating.

Yes, so 'They' know the inside story. I want them to name names and site links.

Yup, they hate Hillary and Obama. Nooooo, don't even get me going on all the Obama crap. A poster here mentioned the feet to the fire shite. That they not only held his feet to the fire, they burnt his feet to a crisp, yet Bernie gets a pass on.....well everything! Everything!

[George II]

93. Totally false....sounds good to the "masses", but totally false.

[1StrongBlackMan]

123. What is the purpose of focus groups and how are they pulled together ...

I think if you weren't just "BettyEllening" a talking point, you would realize that focus groups are truly democratic and facilitate true representation.

Which I would prefer over a "representative" that follows his/her own mind.

[freshwest]

77. IDK what it said, but MIRT removed that poster. Welcome to DU. n/t

[AlbertCat]

21. Hillary speaks to the minority community, not at them.

Oh please!

Keep those RW talking points a-comin'!

[SonderWoman]

30. My comment wasn't intended to be nefarious and certainly not right wing.

Hillary has always graciously and enthusiastically accepted any invite to speak with members of our community.

[jwirr]

43. None of the other candidates have been running for president since their husband was president.

[okasha]

112. Possibly because they're all male.

And nobody's wife has been elected, yet. Next year will change that, and open up a whole new world to husbands.

[AgingAmerican]

53. Then she will 'graciously and enthusiastically' invite BLM onstage with her...

right?

Wrong, they won't be allowed into her 'invite only' events. If they did get into her events she would have them dragged out by white guys in suits and sunglasses. This always happens when someone shows up at one of her events to protest or speak out.

Protesters are only allowed in 'free speech zones' just like Bush used to do.

[SonderWoman]

56. Most likely she will. She has already started outreach.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/27/hillary-clinton-campaign-starts-black-lives-matter/

[ismnotwasm]

80. She certainly did

[bravenak]

101. I keep trying to explain this to people. Nice to see someone else give it a try.nt

[AgingAmerican]

85. Washington Times is a right wing rag, FYI

It won't happen with her because they are coordinating with her campaign.

And she won't discuss economics, because the economic theories she latches onto disproportionately harm POC.

Cognitive dissonance

[sheshe2]

131. Welcome to DU.

I haven't been home from work long, from what I have read. I am loving your voice.

[Ken Burch]

88. So does Bernie.

He has never refused invitations to speak to PoC audiences-it's just that there aren't many in Vermont and that's where he's focused his efforts until recently.

Bernie's record in public life is more anti-bigotry than any other current Democratic candidate. And he was one of only two white elected officials in the whole country to endorse Jesse Jackson in 1988.

[Cha]

135. How disingenous was that? Accusing you of using a rw talking points when you say.. "Hillary

speaks to the minority community, not at them."

As IF.. a rw would say that..

They have not one clue between them. Notice when they have nothing they resort to personal insults.

Welcome to DU, SonderWoman in Harlem.

Aloha.. I'm way out here on Kauai

[fbc]

28. Like Dubya for the white community... there's a guy you could have a beer with.

Not like how that elitist Obama talks down to people.

It turns out that might not be the best indicator of presidential success.

[ismnotwasm]

79. You are probably better off ignoring some of these folks

They will absolutely not listen and will continue to goad. Many of our AA community members have tried to explain just as you are. (I don't know your ethnicity obviously) They not only refuse to listen, they will explain why, as a person of color, you are wrong, your feelings about your experiences as a person of color are wrong, your political choices are wrong.

There are still people hear who listen, and I'd like to welcome you to Democratic Underground

[artislife]

82. As a brown Poc

I disagree with Hillary.

I do not think I am wrong.

I know that I have seen other PoC at events that also think Bernie is better.

You support Hillary and that is okay. But please do not make a blanket statement of PoC because we don't like it whether it is good or bad.

We are all individuals. I just have a sneaking suspicion that certain segments of the Hillary suppporters are loving this, with kind of the same glee that other groups like division along race lines.

I am not targeting you to be feeling that way, but I have read enough in this OP and your response was kind of one sided. So I took the opportunity.

[ismnotwasm]

92. That's nice

This new poster -- A black woman, does NOT agree with the OP, and is getting the same kind of crap other people of color, especially Black people-- who don't agree with it get. She's new. She's being treated rudely, although she is holding her own. When talking about a people -- at this point the majority of Black people do NOT support Sanders. They do NOT think he listens. Statistically PoC are supporting Hillary. That could, of course change but it is what it is.

You don't have to agree with Hillary, or #BLM, go ahead and think economic equity will fix all racial ills--I don't give a shit, and (no, I'm not given you "permission&quot ---or I give enough of one to respond to you, which is actually sort of a compliment.

You're the one who thinks snark is fun right? Wasn't that you? Silly little back and forth exchanges that mean exactly nothing?

[artislife]

96. That's nice

I will withhold responding to you again.

[ismnotwasm]

98. Thank you

I appreciate it.

[George II]

100. +1

[George II]

99. +1

[artislife]

105. I said nothing about you....heh

[Bobbie Jo]

124. Just want to say...

thank you.

This one only has a few weeks in herself.

[sheshe2]

132. My dear ism.

I applaud you.

[SunSeeker]

122. Welcome to DU, SonderWoman!

[William769]

140. Welcome to DU SonderWoman

Glad to have you hear.

As you can see you will earn quickly who's who, and who you can trust & who you can't.

[cascadiance]

141. In many cases she avoids speaking to or at them...

She AVOIDS being at events where they are present.

So, many here claim that Bernie was "talking at" POC at Netroots Nation. That's a matter of interpretation, when a crowd of people starts yelling at you when you are giving a scheduled speech on the topic of immigration and doesn't give you a chance to talk WITH them when you can't even say anything once they start yelling. And Hillary? Was she even THERE to "speak to the minority community" at Netroots? She was ABSENT!!!! That's NOT talking with anybody there, let alone POC!

Here in Portland this week, Hillary last night talked with people here, but only if they shelled out $2.7k to meet her at a private fundraiser party in a wealthy neighborhood. Now, is that talking with POC? How many POC can afford to spend $2.7k to speak with her?

Bernie's coming here to Portland on Sunday, and already looks to fill up the 13,000 capacity Memorial Colliseum, and they might even move it next door to the Moda Center if people coming keep building up where the Blazers play that seats almost 20,000 people, after it was just announced a week ago. He's speaking to everyone that comes for free. POC will be able to attend as will any one else. How is Hillary's "conversation" with Portlanders more reaching out to POC than what Bernie is doing here on Sunday?

[artislife]

4. ^^^this.

He has another good video, that I tried to post here but couldn't, about how to handle being stopped by the police. The aim is to come out alive and not physically as damaged as possible.


Anyone who hasn't read or listened to, here you are
https://zinnedproject.org/materials/a-peoples-history-of-the-united-states-updated-and-expanded-edition/



We have to elevate Black lives in America. Anything else will not do.


And for anyone thinking, "What about me and my issues?" If we elevate Black lives, trust me, everyone else will rise.

[jtuck004]

5. Oh brother. Another white person telling us all about racism. Can hardly wait. n/t

[hootinholler]

7. Thanks!

What is wrong with what he said?

Is it not factual? Is it a lie? Which parts are those?

It pretty much sums up where I am on this stuff, but with new facts I can change my opinion.

[jtuck004]

13. Nothing wrong with him having an opinion. White folks have had opinions for several hundred

years.

I always go to someone who, being a member of the privileged class, is least affected by something to get their take on it.

[Ed Suspicious]

22. I think, just maybe, black people are not the target audience of this piece.

[jwirr]

32. Well then you need to avoid all politicians not just Bernie. Hillary has much to gain in this

election as well.


Using races against each other is far from new. The Buffalo Soldiers (Black soldiers) who fought the Native American's after the Civil War are a very good example. And for many many years that was a real sore spot even to some extent right up to the Civil Rights movement of the 60s.

Today not so much. Intermarriage has made a big difference in attitudes. Opening minds to the reality that we are all human beings.

The poverty thing has been the weapon since the 60s. In some ways this issue has also been used to turn all of us against each other. That is one of the reasons that many white poor vote against themselves - because they think they are voting against people of color.

[jtuck004]

40. "then you need to avoid all politicians not just Bernie" > That's some sage advice right there.n/t

[jwirr]

61. Well is was your advice.

[AlbertCat]

23. white people can't talk about race.

because. y'know Hillary is black.

[jwirr]

33. And she was married to the First Black President.

[azurnoir]

67. I used to cringe everytime I read that

[jwirr]

70. Me to - especailly after the crime bills that passed back then. I will take President Obama over

Bill Clinton every day.

[romanic]

86. LMAO

I'm gonna use this whenever a Clinton supporters says Sanders or any other white person shouldn't talk about race.

[Bobbie Jo]

138. Why?

What do you mean, "use this?" There's no gotcha moment to be had here.

Is this some sort of game to you?

[1monster]

11. Did you even watch this video? Because if you did, you seem to

have entirely missed the point.

[Zorra]

63. The History of Racial Economic Inequality

Feb 6, 2013
By Nicole Kenney, NAACP, special to BlackAmericaWeb.com

Poverty, unemployment, home ownership, wealth – for each of these economic indicators African Americans fare worse than other racial groups. But why? During Black History Month the NAACP will delve into four major U.S. periods (Slavery, the New Deal, the Reagan Era, and the 2008 Housing Crisis) that have shaped many of African Americans’ economic realities. These stories are not of victimization – African Americans have triumphed and excelled despite centuries of exclusion and oppression. By providing this historic framework, we hope there will be more appreciation for African Americans’ economic contributions to this country; greater understanding of the grave institutional economic challenges facing African American communities; and support for policies to remedy racial economic inequities in acknowledgement that helping the minority will ultimately help the majority.
snip---
Our country has made tremendous progress, which is evident with the inauguration of President Barack Obama into his second term. However, the racial wounds and vestiges of centuries of institutional racism and economic oppression remain. In 1865, just after Emancipation, African Americans owned .05% of the nation’s wealth; by 1990 African Americans only owned 1% percent. If wealth is the indicator by which we measure a person, a family, and a community’s economic security, then this stark disparity in wealth gives us insight into why African American communities continue to struggle.

We cannot achieve economic parity until we work to advance policy that explicitly includes African Americans and tackles the centuries of racial economic exclusion. “Django Unchained” and “Lincoln” have opened the door to having a thoughtful and honest conversation around slavery. Now, we must keep that door open, acknowledge slavery’s economic impacts and discuss real solutions to closing the racial economic divide.

http://blackamericaweb.com/2013/02/06/the-history-of-racial-economic-inequality-part-1-slavery/

[Zorra]

6. So very true...

With national borders destroyed ( for merchandise) the globalized market organizes the global economy: research and design of goods and services, as well as their circulation and consumption are thought of in intercontinental terms. For each part of the capitalist process the "new world order" organizes the flow of the labor force, specialized or not, up to where it is necessary. Far from subject ing itself to the "free flow" so clucked-over by neoliberalism, the employment markets are each day determined more by migratory flows. Where skilled workers are concerned, whose numbers are not significance in the context of global migration, the "crossing of brains" represents a great deal in terms of economic power and knowledge. Nevertheless, whether skilled labor, or unskilled labor, the migratory politics of neoliberalism is oriented more towards destabilizing the global labor market than towards stopping immigration.

The Fourth World War, with its process of destruction/depopulation and reconstruction/reorganization provokes the displacement of millions of people. Their destiny is to continue to wander, with the nightmare at their side, and to offer to employed workers in different nations a threat to their employment stability, an enemy to hide the image of the boss, and a pretext for giving meaning to the racist nonsense promoted by neoliberalism.

http://struggle.ws/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

Proof: Racism and hate are increasing exponentially every year. Look at Europe right now, it's a hatefest. Look at Ferguson, and Baltimore. Anti-Semitism is running rampant. Look at all the anti-Hispanic nutjobs in the GOP.

Why?

Because there is soooo much profit to be made from hate and war.

[Metric System]

8. That's an interesting theory.

[silverweb]

12. Howard Zinn documented that very clearly.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]His book, A People's History of the United States, describes it exactly.

In the section relating to this, Zinn explains and documents how and why racism was engineered in the plantation days. It was precisely to make poor whites and black slaves/former slaves fear and hate each other, to keep them fighting with each other over crumbs - and to take their focus off the rich.

I can't recommend this book highly enough for everyone - and it's available for free at the link!

[rurallib]

18. and it goes on to this very day

separate the vast majority that is poor or middle class into silos based on many different things, throw some crumbs out and watch them beat the hell out of each other for those crumbs.
Meanwhile the rich steal us blind.

[silverweb]

59. Exactly.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]That's always been the plan, and it's worked all too well.

[ismnotwasm]

71. I've read it several times

I was wondering why I got lectured by a poster suggesting I read it. Now I know.

This is is a simplistic take away from his premise. You all are making it sound like "Ethnic America" by Thomas Sowell--whose conclusions follow the economic theory more precisely. He's also An AA right leaning Libertarian

Here's a book, a text book actually I highly recommend to supplement Zinn's excellent book

The Meaning of Difference: American Constructions of Race, Sex and Gender, Social Class, Sexual Orientation, and Disability Paperback – February 11, 2011

The meaning of difference focuses on the social construction of difference as it operates in American formulations of race and ethnicity, sex and gender, social class, sexual orientation, and disability. The conceptual structure of this text-reader comes from four framework essays that addressing the construction of difference, the experience of difference, the social meaning of difference, and social actions that might bridge differences. Each framework essay is followed by a set of readings selected for readability, conceptual depth, and applicability to a variety of statuses. Boxed inserts throughout offer first-person accounts, many of them from students. The readings in this edition, which include twenty-four new readings and ten new personal accounts, have been selected to speak to contemporary assumptions of a Post-racial America

http://www.amazon.com/The-Meaning-Difference-Constructions-Orientation/dp/0078111641
}

[DemocraticWing]

142. Having read both these books, it's important to note how things intersect

The OP is technically correct in how racism is used in some cases, but fails to grasp the distinct nature of the two forms of oppression. However I think the opposite side of the coin is being pushed by some people too, an idea that the two are distinct and therefore can be solved one-by-one. Yes and no: while theoretically possible, economic conditions also need to be addressed because poverty perpetuates both hatred and privilege/lack thereof.

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. WOW ...

Since you posted the video, I assume you watched it. But your take away is "the current attacks on Bernie about race are designed to accomplish the same old goal, keeping the poor poor and the rich in charge."

I'm sorry, but ...

[hootinholler]

36. Please enlighten me then.

How is it that the one candidate who has done more with both words and deeds to address racial and economic disparity is getting the most flack about not caring about these issues?

BTW, that isn't my take away from the video, the video is to support my assertion that Bernie is being attacked by proxy. If you drop enough smallish stones at the top of a cliff, an avalanche can result.

Seriously, explain it to me in a way that includes all of the rocks that have been dropped by Clinton surrogates and supporters since Bernie announced his candidacy. How is this tactic not in play?

[Juicy_Bellows]

54. There have been a lot of rocks dropped.

I don't speak openly here about my race because I don't think it defines me as a person. I don't think I've mentioned my sexual orientation or my gender. I have mentioned my age because of a poll I posted (40yrs) and I've eluded to my lack of faith in other threads. I've never been asked. I would prefer not to use those truths as some sort of cudgel to give my argument more or less weight in the eyes of the reader. If I can't make my point as simply human than my point isn't strong enough (thanks Dad!).

Back to the point.

Divide and conquer is as old as mankind. How anyone can not see that whatever gaffe football popped out at Netroots wasn't immediately picked up and ran with by those looking for anything to smear Sanders with is beyond me. Interestingly, O'Malley hasn't gotten near the amount of flak and he used the all lives matter line. That right there should be enough to tell you everything you need to know.

The division on here over this is disingenuous I think. Shit flinging at Sanders supporters and nothing more.

Black Lives Matter.

[George II]

110. Damn, you hit the nail RIGHT on the head!

[moobu2]

26. whitesplained

whitesplain ‎ third-person singular simple present whitesplains, present participle whitesplaining, simple past and past participle whitesplained)
(colloquial, chiefly Internet) To explain (something) condescendingly to one who is not Caucasian, especially regarding race relations or minority behavior, presuming the listener's inferior understanding because of their race.

[winter is coming]

37. You left out...

Often applied inappropriately in an effort to dominate a narrative.

[Android3.14]

44. How does it feel to be a pawn?

Your response is, in the microcosm, exactly what the video illustrates at the macro level. It only creates greater distance between individuals so the PTB can keep us down.

[Bobbie Jo]

45. Please note Exhibit A

posted above.

See, now you're doing it wrong again.

Please learn the appropriate application, thank you.

[ellennelle]

27. thx for this, but

your final comment is a bit narrowly informed.

i don't think there is any design of this sort in the reactions of the BLM to bernie whatsoever. blacks are pissed, and i so do not blame them. the only blacks who are not angry are the rich, the comatose, and the uncle toms, as far as i can tell.

that said, i think it's also important for all y'all black folk dismissing any damn thing a white person has to say on the matter of race just, you know, out of hand, is not just too often ignorant of the facts about the white person you might be targeting, but also short-sighted.

now, far be it from me to tell someone how to be angry, and far be it from me to claim to know squat about that anger about being black in this country. i give every person of color that fully and completely; that anger is yours, it is so understandable, and you have a right to it.

my only question to you is this: what are you gonna do with that anger? anger can be a great motivator, but as an emotion with any positive potential, that is just about it - motivation.

so i ask you, what do you plan to do with that anger? make presumptions about every single white person out here? i can understand that, as presumptions have been made about folks wearing black skin forever, and it ain't right! just ain't right. in making such presumptions, do you plan to disregard every single white person's history wrt racism, just y'know based on the color of their/our skin? if so, you face at least two situations. on the one hand, you might have to disregard some of the whitest bigots ever to walk the face of the earth, and i don't think that would be wise or fruitful. on the other hand, you might have to disregard folks who have highlighted and focused and actively worked for decades, longer than many of you young 'un's been alive, to reverse the very problems that those white bigots create and make you so justifiably angry. guys like bernie.

see, this is the danger of letting anger cloud your thinking, being the powerful and irrational emotion that anger is, however justifiable. when we fail to keep that emotion in check, we lose sight of the real goal. we fail to fulfill dr. king's dictum: keep your eye on the goal. we then run the risk of forgetting the point is not to exact some dictum corrective that will balance all the wrongs; that is just a sugar-coated vengeance, and serves no good purpose. the goal has to be more comprehensive, to overcome all prejudice and all the things that feed it, including ...anger.

anger can be a great motivator, but in order to harness the great power of that emotion, you have to be morally and spiritually very strong, very steadfast, very smart. otherwise, anger can make us all at the very best rude, insensitive, and alienating. but in every case, it can make us stupid, very stupid, and extremely dangerous.

and before you reject out of hand what my white ass is saying here, just because it's you know, white - i hasten to remind you i learned this wisdom from dr. king, nelson mandella, rosa parks, cesar chavez, mario savio, leonard pelletier, crazy horse, chief seattle, gandhi.....

the list is long, but sadly not endless, because truly, that list of the wise should include each human who has ever walked; but the list is relatively short because we are human, and we are so failed and flawed. i may not know much as a 'privileged' white person, but i do know this much: it is not just suffering that elevated these individuals to such stratospheres of wisdom, though it does appear to be an essential ingredient (chew on that one for a bit). what is more powerful for achieving wisdom is suffering with dignity, never losing touch with dignity.

the moment you become angry, your hold on dignity loosens, and you risk losing your grip.

this is not white man's wisdom (au contraire; see above); this is simply the face of wisdom, and should speak to us all.

[sadoldgirl]

34. It is one part,and it is clearly used by TPTB,

but one should never forget, that the human being
is just as tribal as the chimpanzees. "The other" is
always interpreted as a danger or inferior.
I am not sure how you are treated as a white
person in Japan or in a small village in Egypt.

I have not been in the army, which seems to force
different people to work and live together. Does it
work after the soldier reenters civilian life?
I don't know.Social evolution may be far far
slower than a lot of us wish for, just look how
the Serbs still hate the Albanians, and for how
many centuries.

[BainsBane]

38. I believe the current attacks on Black Lives Matter

are intended to silence people of color. Privileging a single politician's political fortunes above a social movement protesting the hundreds, if not thousands, of people of color being killed by police reveals an inegalitarian notion of society n which the desires of a few white people trump the lives of people of color. I no longer and going to try to convince people to listen to the concerns of people of color. It has become clear to me that the exclusionary position is not incidental but rather central to a certain political ethos. We are witnessing a movement by the white upper-middle class and middle class, predominately male, to reestablish their own privilege, while working to silence and discredit the subaltern. It is not leftist, liberal, or progressive. It is reactionary. It is sad that has what has become of a presidential campaign that might have offered voters a true leftist alternative, but his supporters are far to wedded to their own entitlement and thus express open hostility to anyone who stands in the way of reclaiming their position atop the capitalist world order. I once thought Bernie deserved better than what is being perpetrated in his name. I no longer am so sure, simply because he has not clamped down on his supporters efforts to drive off any potential support from people of color.

Also note that the poor by and large do not support Sanders. His supporters are whiter and more affluent than the population at large, even if they fret about how exploitive an internship's wage of $60k a year is or hard it is to get by on $150k, a household income greater than 90% of the country. Claims that discrediting black activists helps the poor is patently false. There is only one group being promoted here, and they as in aggregate (though not to the person) are far from poor.

We do indeed have people preying on racial division for political gain, but it is not Black Lives Matter. People of color cannot maintain racism or divide to promote the interests of a few. Such an ethos exists ONLY to maintain white supremacy. Even if people are not aware of it, that is precisely what they are engaged in when they work to delegimate social activism in defense of black lives.

This entire ethos belongs to the 19th century. It deserves to be defeated, and it will be. It is sad they have chosen to saddle Bernie with this association because in doing so they have doomed his candidacy. Americans who seek an egalitarian society do not tell black activists to keep their mouths shut because they fear a political hero can't take criticism. That very argument is as profoundly anti-egalitarian and reactionary as any that exists in this country.

[1StrongBlackMan]

62. But what do you know ... Your a woman! ...

For those that require:

Righteous Post.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

118. You're

[1StrongBlackMan]

128. Thank you for that important contribution to this sub-thread ...

Ms. DiSilva, my 3rd grade grammar teacher, shares your embarrassment.

[ismnotwasm]

66. Another one out of the ballpark

Excellent

[JustAnotherGen]

68. A great deal of truth here!

[bravenak]

91. Perfect!!!nt

[okasha]

107. Thank you for this.

I'm a bit stunned right now because of all the "you're only hurting your own cause" speeches I've heard from white people, this is the first time I've been told to fold my hands and behave like a lady in the face of genocide and institutionalized violence against people of color.

It's--astonishing.

[Number23]

119. Your post will be ignored because you are a Hillary supporter. And that's a shame because it is

NOTHING but the truth. And I say this as someone who is not a Hillary supporter but am neither anti-Hillary.

It is sad that has what has become of a presidential campaign that might have offered voters a true leftist alternative, but his supporters are far to wedded to their own entitlement and thus express open hostility to anyone who stands in the way of reclaiming their position atop the capitalist world order.

Also note that the poor by and large do not support Sanders. His supporters are whiter and more affluent than the population at large

This post is brilliant. And NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

[BainsBane]

127. Hillary or Sanders are far less important than Black Lives Matter

and the epidemic of police violence against African Americans. The candidates are only politicians. BLM is about human lives. Combating lethal racism matters far more than one man or woman's political fortunes. Yet too many don't see it that way.

[Cha]

136. "Americans who seek an egalitarian society do not tell black activists to keep their mouths shut

because they fear a political hero can't take criticism."

Well done, Bains.. Mahalo for your post.

[WillyT]

49. Yep...

From George Carlin:

Now, to balance the scale, I'd like to talk about some things that bring us together, things that point out our similarities instead of our differences. 'Cause that's all you ever hear about in this country. It's our differences. That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about--the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money! Fairly simple thing. Happens to work. You know? Anything different--that's what they're gonna talk about--race, religion, ethnic and national background, jobs, income, education, social status, sexuality, anything they can do to keep us fighting with each other, so that they can keep going to the bank! You know how I define the economic and social classes in this country? The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class. Keep 'em showing up at those jobs.

Link: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Carlin

[JustAnotherGen]

51. The economic justice thing for BLACK men was what was not acceptable in Memphis

What were the names of the two sanitation workers in Memphis that were killed?

Why were they in the malfunctioning garbage truck?

What was on the 'sign' the black men (1000 black men in Memphis) held - what did it say?

These three things should accompany the video

It wasn't until King got real pissed off about how black workers - state employees - not corporate or business - were getting treated - that he got killed.

Loeb, the white mayor of Memphis who entered office in January 1968 - refused to recognize the rights these men had that white sanitation workers had around America.

Loeb:
Refused to take dilapidated trucks out of service (the malfunctioning garbage truck Echole and Walker were hiding from the elements in. ***Note - they were not allowed to say - stand on a porch of a white owned home to hide from a rain storm. The color line remained even for those who were employees of a government. That's why they were in the back of the truck.

Refused the men overtime who worked late into the night.

Hundreds of HARD WORKING BLACK MEN who were employed by the city in the state of TN in the country USA relied on welfare and food stamps because their wages were so low.

Then Echole and Walker are killed - and get this: Their families were not given the same kind of workers comp that say - a white male city employee would received when killed on the job due to unsafe working conditions. Because they were black men though -can we just go on ahead and point out how uppity and racist the white folks were in Memphis? Good enough to pick up their garbage - yet disposable when working in inclement weather. You can't make this shit up - this is America. *sigh*

And that's where it came from.

Had the white leadership - elected leaders - of government treated their TAX payers and citizens fairly without regard to the color of their skin . . . had they treated them like men -

MLK would never have been on that balcony and he never would have gotten shot.

This is basic knowledge that black Americans are given to them by their parents because the white owned/managed public school system doesn't want white kids learning the truth about their grandparents.

Heaven forbid people are taught that those 1000 workers up against 4K armed national guardsmen were black folks. We'd need a helluva lot of smelling salts if this information got out.

[JI7]

69. great post

It will be ignored or disputed by the usual ones.

But it's important to know what actually happened.

[ismnotwasm]

73. I recommend this post nt

[freshwest]

81. Who's kidding who. 'Get Ready For The Pain.' n/t

[artislife]

83. ^^^this.

It is true, there is a serious lack of self awareness and self examination by this country. We rah rah rah and yell We're number one.

We can't handle our truth.

But we must.


The veils are being lifted, they cannot go back down. None of us wants to feel "bad" but that's too bad. This fairytale is ending.

We cannot shift this unless we fully examine our part, whether it is silent assent or out rigtht choice of behavior.

The only way to get to heaven on earth is to start revealing to ourselves our demons.


The thing is, it isn't history. It is now. Right this minute. The sh*t has never let up.

[Raine1967]

84. BIG HUGE KICK for this post.

After reading most of this thread, speechless —

WEll, thank you for this.

[Number23]

116. If I can get to NJ, will you marry me? Yeah, I'm married and you're married but I think we can make

this work, girl. I really do.

Then Echole and Walker are killed - and get this: Their families were not given the same kind of workers comp that say - a white male city employee would received when killed on the job due to unsafe working conditions. Because they were black men though -can we just go on ahead and point out how uppity and racist the white folks were in Memphis? Good enough to pick up their garbage - yet disposable when working in inclement weather. You can't make this shit up - this is America. *sigh*

Had the white leadership - elected leaders - of government treated their TAX payers and citizens fairly without regard to the color of their skin . . . had they treated them like men -

MLK would never have been on that balcony and he never would have gotten shot.

THANK YOU.

FUCK THE NOISE. I am so sick of this web site distorting King's legacy, even what and who these sanitation workers are, I could scream. So sick of the IGNORANCE that blankets this web site like kudzu.

Our history is not for sale and we are damn sure not about to let it be minimized, distorted and lied about without a fight.

[bravenak]

120. Marking this thread for this post.

I think this info needs to be repeated. Constantly.

[1StrongBlackMan]

121. So you got tired of the stolen ...

Sanitized and reinterpreted legacy, too?

But rest assured ... this will be read (maybe) ... the "enlightened shift in focus to economic justice" lie will die down for 2-3 weeks ... then, will re-surface ... all brand new ... by the same posters.

[99th_Monkey]

133. Thank you - this information is very powerful

and because of that, will not be welcomed by some who have already decided
for everyone else that "social issues" reign supreme, and "economic issues" must
ride in the back of the bus.

[Scalded Nun]

52. Make no mistake, this is real

But, without trying to diminish that fact, I would like to add that this is only one tool in the box. The whole 'divide and conquer' strategy is what is in play. US against THEM (white/black, rich/poor, union/non-union, public employees/private employees, and the list goes on to include whatever works for them at the time).

What we as a nation have to do is to not allow that tactic's success, and that is no easy thing.

[99th_Monkey]

65. Yep and "no easy thing" may be an understatement -nt-

[ismnotwasm]

72. Interesting Cooke feels republicans and Democrats are the same

Very interesting.

[JustAnotherGen]

74. You picked up on that too?

Because any member at DU who believes as this man does -

Has no business shaking their fingers in the face of black DUers - and chastising us for not blindly supporting Senator Sanders.

[ismnotwasm]

75. Well it's on his website so I cheated

And I agree--plus the video was painfully obnoxious. I'd have to write many paragraphs about how it slants facts and how I feel about that.

[Scootaloo]

76. I hear he metabolizes glucose too. He might even be a mammal. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

78. ??

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[bettyellen]

144. Anyone who says that is flat out trying to suppress the Dem vote. And full of shit.

My friend said that to me, and I said yep- if you are a white dude. You have a whole fuck ton less worry about the USSC too.

[gollygee]

94. The obvious answer to this is for everyone to join together in speaking out against racism.

We should be joining people of color in their struggle, not asking them to drop it.

[KoKo]

103. There are definite hints of that that younger DU'ers might not be clued into.

Not blaming them for not knowing...because they see their world in their own eyes. But, often discount the history and record that is now available on the Internet of the paths their candidates have taken and and can't see beyond their current ANGST...to see how that has been manipulated before.

Wish they would read more and do more digging since there's so much more available to get "up to speed" on the History of US Movements for Change than many of us had when we were young and working to make our "Own Change."

Just saying....from my perspective of "been there and done it" and wish we'd had "Instant Tools" to know what we were up against.



And...no I wasn't a "Flower Child" lost in dreams...(nothing wrong with that, either when one is young) but, was part of those "Working for Change" without the Media Factor that seems so much a part of that time that distorts what else was going on.

[artislife]

109. What I take away from this and other OPs replies

Is that if you have a Sanders banner....just don't talk about it.

Doesn't matter, this site doesn't want to hear it.

So I am taking myself out of any posts that has to do with race, even though I am not a middle class white person. There is nothing at this point that can add anything positive.

[KoKo]

113. I know....I see so much ANGST...that has gone before...

and...to them it's old news. But, I just don't see DU as the place to fight it out without causing so many hard feelings that causes people not to engage.

That's another part of how the "System Works." Turn off people from engaging with each other and then you have nothing but chaos that can be "MANAGED."

Seen it before. Many "old timers" here have warned about it..and the literature is out there with a SEARCH of what has gone on before for those who can look for it in the keywords. But, one needs to know how to enter topic and weed through the searches...and who has time when its easier to just throw things (arguments) out here on this site....and feel one has conquered the world.

Good Resources here from those of us know where to look (from past history of 15 years here)...but, many don't want to listen.

[artislife]

114. It feels completely like being managed

I care about this and I am so upset. The worst thing is that I tried within a day to stop all the crazy OPs and replies...but it doesn't matter here. It is like a cold fury that causes one not to be able to hear. And that is on many sides of this. Too bad.

The good news for me, I will be at Bernie's Event this Saturday and will meet a lot of happy, enthusiastic and diverse people who want to change the world.

We may not do it.

If we don't, I really don't forsee much good coming our way. I don't think we will be able to even maintain where we are.

But winning the battle is more important than winning the war for some.

[KoKo]

117. Good for you getting to go to Bernie Event..."Keep Your Eyes on the Prize"...

whether we win the prize or not....we will have made a difference. Restructuring the Dem Party is worth the effort...even if we don't win now...we've got to try to make it close enough to get the help to begin the Reform!

Can't wait for him to hit my state. Until then the videos will be good to watch to keep in the loop of support.