Its so obvious now...its not BLM vs the Establishment....

[Joe the Revelator]

Last edited Sat Aug 8, 2015, 07:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Its BLM vs Bernie. After Netroots it was easy to say that BLM was going after all democrats, and since Hillary was unable to attend, she was just able to dodge having to answer to BLM.

After the events in Seattle, that argument can no longer be made. After Netroots I made a post hypothesizing that this was some BS political jiu-jitsu from Hillary's camp. Now I am even more sure.

After her and Bill's racist comments in '08, she knows she has a problem with her own words. Now she's taken what should be a strength for Bernie, his actual record, and turned it against him.

Just Clinton politics as usual.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/bill-clinton-i-am-not-a-racist/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race/

[msongs]

1. has clinton actually put herself in an environment where such protests could occur and/or does

she have better security and planning, including secret service?

[Joe the Revelator]

3. Does she speak publically? Even the president has been shouted down.

The fact she hasn't, and is such a 'clear frontrunner' is telling.

[PoliticAverse]

7. Clinton has Secret Service protection and much greater security around her events. n/t

[RoccoR5955]

39. I for one, don't believe that this is fair

It's not a fair game if one candidate gets taxpayer funded security while the other has to pay out of pocket.
Even if she is the former FLOTUS.

[Historic NY]

72. Hey Rocco it looked like he had a couple highway workers for security...

he was in a public place why not have the Portland cops there....its either his choice or he has a bunch or morons for staff.


Yes Hillary has SS protection and the campaign has to reimburse costs too.

[Divernan]

44. White protestors w/signs on road to HRC's fundraiser

When HRC attended a fundraiser at the home of a multi-billionaire in Fox Chapel, PA, security blocked off a private road on which the estate was located, but protestors appeared at another road anyone could figure out she would have to travel.

Shortly after 11 a.m., Clinton pulled into the driveway of the Shapira estate, nestled at the end of a private road lined with big houses and plush, green lawns.

A few blocks away, five protesters carrying signs reading “Stop Hillary” high-fived passers-by and elicited a few honks from cars outside Fox Chapel Presbyterian Church.
http://triblive.com/politics/politicalheadlines/8761531-74/clinton-fundraiser-hillary#axzz3i8yPjDrQ

The location of her Portland, Oregon fundraiser (at another billionaire's estate, of course)was well advertised weeks in advance. And guess what? no BLM protesters. It would have been so simple for them to station themselves with signs &/or loudspeakers for a few hours on Clinton's path between the airport and the elite estate.

Clinton flew into Portland in the early afternoon after appearing at a fundraiser in Park City, Utah. She visited with donors at the Dunthorpe home of major Democratic donor Win McCormack and political consultant Carol Butler for just under two hours before returning to the airport to attend an evening fundraiser in Atherton, Calif.

http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2015/08/hillary_clintons_portland_fund.html

But no-o-o-o-o-, not a single one. Connect the dots campers - BLM is being deliberately used, or complacently allowing itself to be used to attack Bernie. If BLM has not and does not condone the blatant bias of attacking only HRC's primary opponents, they would obviously speak up. But the silence is deafening.

[GitRDun]

101. Clinton also has a much more diverse campaign staff

I'm not in the Hillary camp.

Bernie and his supporters need to start looking in the mirror if they feel they aren't getting enough support.

[lunamagica]

2. I thought in America you were innocent until proven guilty. eom

[Joe the Revelator]

4. This isn't a court room.

[Bubzer]

41. And, perhaps more importantly, this is politics.

Virtually no one is innocent in politics

[NCTraveler]

79. This isn't the legal system.

It's what comes out of the space between their ears. It's opinio... It's specula....It's wild speculation and are the thoughts of the author. Very far from the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

[cali]

5. I don't think it's fair to blue this on Clinton.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. It's really the only theory that makes sense..

...given the lack of veritol aimed at Hillary herself. And her past political maneuvering. You can't discount it.

[cali]

10. no. it is not. but I'm not going to get into other theories.

[winter is coming]

11. No, it's not the only theory that makes sense.

The GOP could be doing it, to sow division/dissension in our party. Bonus points if it damages Bernie, as his message is even more of a threat to them than it is to Hillary.

[Joe the Revelator]

12. The republicans have their own issues nt

[emsimon33]

91. You are right.

The Hillary people don't want to hear it, but look who Hillary has running her campaign! (Can we say "Monsanto"! Enough said) The only other explanation is that these poor, ignorant saps are being controlled by the Republican machine to discredit Democrats so that African Americans do not vote. Both the Hillary Campaign and the RNC are very Machiavellian. I put nothing pass either of them.

[MyNameGoesHere]

51. That's not a theory

maybe wishful thinking, or sour grapes. But no where near a theory. I doubt if it would even make a blip on Conspiracy Theory daily.

[azurnoir]

8. Hillary has Secret Service protection because she is a former FLOTUS, Bernie does not, it that said

it's curious that these 'BLM' reps seem more concerned with what a guy who maybe possibly might could be POTUS in a year and a half is saying than what either currently sitting POTUS is doing or the one we're told will be POTUS has to say

[zeemike]

70. And even more curious about the silence on a black Attorney General

Who actually has the power to do something about it right now and in the past, and has done nothing.

[GoneFishin]

93. If they were really driven by the urgent need for immediate action they would target the AG, not

the "might be the Democratic candidate someday" guy.

It's an anti-Bernie smear tactic.

[restorefreedom]

9. i have been thinking the same thig for a while now

he is their target. since he is for equality and police reform, that can only leave one reason

and i don't need to say her name......

[emsimon33]

92. The One whose name must not be spoken

[nashville_brook]

13. it's sad that a few people calling themselves BLM are discrediting the movement

the things that BLM originally stood for are critically important, but this maniacal focus on Bernie (who was a member of SNCC) is beyond ridiculous. it's making the whole movement appear that they just don't like a single candidate. that's a shame.

[Joe the Revelator]

17. This is also true...if this is a 'spinoff' of BLM then they are doing much more harm than good....

I saw a video of a lot of liberal, multi-colored people chanting "LET BERNIE SPEAK". Why turn those people off?

[nashville_brook]

23. precisely. if their intent is to divide and conquer the Dems -- it's not going to work.

and, i don't believe this is a "sanctioned" BLM action. i don't even think there's an official BLM organization that would "approve" or "disapprove." this is just 2 yahoos advancing their own agenda, and it's appalling obvious that it's anti-Bernie, or else they would be protesting Republican candidates who are/were governors and actually had direct oversight of law enforcement.

it doesn't pass the smell test...and it's bad for The Real BLM Movement.

[LiberalElite]

63. IMO someone is

attempting to "kill two birds with one stone".

[emsimon33]

89. Perceptive point!

[HooptieWagon]

76. No spinoff. That was BLM Seattle founders that hijacked the event...

...to throw their temper tantrum.

[nashville_brook]

86. wow. that's...

telling.

[cheapdate]

26. Truth. n/t

[jeff47]

65. Oh, they like a single candidate. There's one they haven't tried to disrupt. (nt)

[Fred Sanders]

14. "Bill and hers racist comments in 2008".... smacks of a desperate and utterly unhelpful argument.

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Thats cool that you think that.....but the facts are the facts...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/bill-clinton-i-am-not-a-racist/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race/

[Fred Sanders]

18. Opinions are opinions, the Internet is full of millions of them...some are even wrong!

How about listening to BLM this time instead of insincerely pandering to them?

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Its not an opinion though....at least not if

your argument is that the Clintons didn't run a disgustingly racist primary campaign in 2008.

[Fred Sanders]

21. I rest my case.

[cheapdate]

29. Holy crap.

Have you actually looked at any of those links?

Do you understand that every ridiculous spat or "controversy" that gets picked up by Politico, or a NYT blogger, or HuffPo isn't necessarily worth the (virtual) paper it's printed on?

In 2008, Hillary Clinton answered a reporter's question about MLK and she ended her remarks with this statement:

"...but it took a president to get it done. That dream became a reality -- the power of that dream became real in people's eyes -- because we had a president who said we're going to do it."

That forms the basis of about 50% of the "reporting" on the "controversy" in those links.

I can't believe we're having a discussion about whether or not Bernie Sanders, an early member of SNCC, or Hillary Clinton, a tenacious champion of women's and minority rights around the world, are racists.

[Joe the Revelator]

34. First of all, I remember 2008...the allusions to RFK's assassination, both Clinton's dog whistles...

second of all "BUT THE SOURCE SUCKS" isn't an argument.

[cheapdate]

62. Questioning the source was absolutely NOT the crux of my argument.

I specifically questioned the content of the reporting. I read the links, watched the embedded video, followed several of the embedded sub-links. I transcribed the quotation from Hillary Clinton myself.

Any of those sources is capable of excellent reporting; they are also capable of reporting topical "gossip".

[sadoldgirl]

16. Unfortunately BLM or those representing the

movement seem to have only one target.
It seems to me that Bernie now has to make sure
that they will not be allowed to take over wherever
he visits. That could simply be done by surrounding
the mics with people, who can be trusted.

If they keep shouting anyway, the people around them
will have to shout them down, but keeping them away
from the mics just might work alone.

[BainsBane]

28. No, they have only one you care about

They've been doing protests for a year all over the place.

[roguevalley]

33. against which presidential candidate besides sanders? It would be reasonable to expect

the pugs get the action, not him. The result is that he is being made to look like a racist by this shit and it is shit.

[ljm2002]

75. Please cite news stories...

...about the other campaign events that have been disrupted by BLM.

Waiting...

[HereSince1628]

74. That's the image they want to create...it perpetuates the notion Sanders is against them

That's intimidation.

[dsc]

19. clenis clenis clenis

next you'll be selling us tapes about how Hillary killed half of Arkansas.

[LittleBlue]

22. How strange that these protests against Bernie come now

And not in the years prior to becoming presidential contender. If Bernie and his followers really are white racists who don't believe black lives matter, why did it take so many years to protest him? To make accusations against him


The answer is quite simple. He wasn't running for president against the establishment. ALL OF A SUDDEN BERNIE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK LIVES, RIGHT? Yeah sure. My only question is how dumb someone has to be not to see it. Do they really expected us to believe Bernie flew under the radar as a someone indifferent to black lives right up to the moment he ran for president, then suddenly BLM saw the truth? Laughable.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. Hillary's team have pointed out so many times that

Bernie has not been getting the Black vote. The H team is terrified because they are relying on that vote to win the election. In my experience Black people here are getting pissed off with Hillary. Bernie is the only one who is sincerely speaking on their behalf not pandering.

[Divernan]

68. My experience is the same.

The black people I know, such as my good friend's law professor husband, my niece, and a few others are enthusiastically pro-Bernie. The other day I was wearing my Bernie Sanders tshirt to the local grocery store, and two middle-aged black men stopped to tell me what a great man Bernie was. I asked if they were Dems and up-to-date on their voter registration. They both said yes, and that they were voting for him. I'm curious to hear their reaction to this latest guerilla action by people claiming to represent BLM.

[Metric System]

25. BWAHAHAHAHA!!! That's the only sane response.

[NanceGreggs]

27. What utter bullshit.

"She knows she has a problem with her own words. Now she's taken what should be a strength for Bernie, his actual record, and turned it against him."

Hillary's "problem"? She has support from the vast majority of AAs and minorities. That doesn't sound like much of a "problem", does it?

So HRC has taken Bernie's actual record and turned it against him? How did she do that? BS's "actual record" has obviously not resonated with AAs and minorities - and it's Hillary's fault?

Jesus Hussein Christ.

[Divernan]

46. That's "Senator Sanders" to you, not "BS". Have a little class, umkay?

Or call him Bernie. But "BS"? You demand respect for HRC? It's a 2-way street.

[NanceGreggs]

48. I didn't "demand respect" for anyone.

And I often refer to Hillary as HRC - in fact, I do so almost invariably. I also refer to JFK, RFK, FDR, MLK, etc.

Honest question: Do you think BS honestly cares about being referred to by his initials on a political message board? Do you think he believes that is important?

If so, that would demonstrate his being a bit too thin-skinned to assume the responsibilities of leading a nation - dont'cha think?

[Divernan]

59. I asked if you demanded respect for HRC. That's why the question mark.

"You demand respect for HRC?"

I don't know what Bernie Sanders thinks about the question. I'm telling you what I think. We both know what the term "BS" has long, most commonly referred to. As the Church Lady would say of your disingenuous use of it, "how conve-e-e-e-enient."

Whatever turns you on.

[NanceGreggs]

64. And whatever you think ...

... is important enough to make an issue of, regardless of how trivial it is.

[Joe the Revelator]

53. This will be used against her at some point...other dems have more class

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/bill-clinton-i-am-not-a-racist/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race/

[NanceGreggs]

69. Well, so far ...

... HRC is waaaay ahead of BS with AAs and minorities.

Are you suggesting they don't know anything about her? I've seen a lot of this bullshit here - the "oh, when people find out about Hillary, they'll change their tune" meme.

Guess what? HRC's past isn't late-breaking-news to anyone.

[John Poet]

95. Two words: NAME RECOGNITION.

'Nuff said.

[NanceGreggs]

96. Oh, no, my sweet ...

... not nearly 'nuff said.

Please explain how AAs and minorities are less aware of politics, and specific politicians, than white voters.

Please elucidate as to why AAs and minorities are only aware of HRC's "name" and nothing else about her.

Please enlighten us all as to how AAs and minorities are incapable of investigating and assessing any politician's past record, behaviour, statements and positions, and are therefore reduced to supporting a candidate based solely on "recognizing" her name.

I look forward to your response.

[John Poet]

97. I didn't say any of that. YOU did.

Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:53 AM - Edit history (1)

The vast majority of white voters and AA and minorities are EQUALLY paying less attention at this early stage of the game, than they will be later on.

You're the one citing poll numbers here. Surely you don't deny that name recognition plays a role in the results?

And BTW--- you can take your superior, know-it-all attitude and.....
Well, I don't like it.

[John Poet]

102. You put a bunch of words in my mouth,

Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:44 AM - Edit history (1)

and now you're calling me a racist based on things I never said?!
Sorry, but that is complete BULLSHIT.

I'm not trying to wiggle out of anything. You're just making up facts to suit you so you can post this attack on me, when you basically know nothing ABOUT me.

Does the FACT that name recognition plays a part in ALL polls, piss you off that much?

The fact is, Bernie doesn't yet have close to the name recognition of Hillary at this point, so he would naturally score lower than Hillary
this early in the campaign in polls of ANYONE, white, black, yellow, purple, space alien or otherwise.

The fact that he shows less support in this poll than a REPUBLICAN normally gets from AAs, just PROVES that it has to be a matter of his low name recognition.

[NorthCarolina]

30. Hillary's events are safe from this tactic

since most disruptors are unable to afford the $2,700.00 entrance fee.

[cantbeserious]

43. ^^^ This ^^^

eom

[hifiguy]

73. HRH scrupulously avoids the commoners.

[flamingdem]

31. Find out who they are

and you'll have the answer. bernie does not deserve that bs and Hillary would not be stupid enough to endorse that behavior.

[rocktivity]

32. UPDATE: They've issued an apology

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141170737


rocktivity

[Joe the Revelator]

37. This would be a pretty awesome strategy....call all Bernie supporters White Supremacists...get that

idea percolating, then retract it afterwards after the damage is done.

I'm not a Sanders partisan, so I can't speak to whether they should or shouldn't accept the apology.

[dreamnightwind]

38. Oh well that fixes everything - not

They perhaps might have stepped over the line by calling people who wanted to hear Sanders speak "white supremacist liberals". So they apologize for that. Give a f'n break.

[Divernan]

45. NO, "THEY(blm) DID NOT ISSUE AN APOLOGY!

Is it too much to ask you to actually read the link in that thread before making a critically incorrect statement. If you did, you would have seen this:

The person "apologizing" NOT EVEN A MEMBER OF BLM!

View profile
BlackLivesMatter-WA ‏@blm_seattle 1h1 hour ago

@ThePoliticalRev @urmomshouse2nte

No, I'm not an official member. But I'm working hard to be I don't want people to think this about BLM

0 retweets 1 favorite

[HooptieWagon]

87. No, that was some teenage kid.

[dreamnightwind]

35. I agree - eom

[Starry Messenger]

36. There's going to be a shortage of tinfoil this year.

[Bubzer]

40. "this was some BS political jiu-jitsu from Hillary's camp"...

I have this impression too. Why else is BLM not be going after HRC? Why are they JUST going after Bernie?

[cantbeserious]

42. Agreed - BLM Seems To Have Become A Willing Pawn In A Larger Game Of Chess

eom

[restorefreedom]

47. someone posted this to the blm facebook page

there were many pro bernie posts, so it sounds like a non cohesive effort by just some disruptors


:large

[NanceGreggs]

52. You can flash that poster around ...

... and talk about "Bernie marching with MLK" all you want.

The FACT is that HRC has the support of the vast majority of AAs and minorities. Bernie doesn't.

Whose fault is that?

Is it Hillary's? Bill's? Obama's? The DNC's? The PTB? The media's? The pundits'?

Class, anyone? Bueller?

[Joe the Revelator]

55. Thanks for proving the point.....Hillary has a weak record on racial issues..so she makes

Bernie out to be a racist. That's the definition of political jiu-jitsu.

[NanceGreggs]

61. Oh, yes, of course ...

Hillary has a "weak record" on racial issues. I guess that's why her poll numbers are so strong among AAs and minorities - right?

The only "political jiu-jitsu" going on here is pretending those numbers don't exist.

[restorefreedom]

56. you might want to check out the blm fb page comments

a lot of positive bernie stuff and some skepticism of hillary

not gonna be as easy a road as you think....

[NanceGreggs]

58. Looks like the "not easy road" here ...

... is Bernie's.

And BTW, the nominee for the Democratic Party will NOT to be determined by FaceBook, but by actual voters.

[restorefreedom]

60. last time i checked, fb users were allowed to vote

so we will have to see

[NanceGreggs]

67. Sure they are.

And if so many of them are for BS, you have to wonder why his poll numbers don't reflect that.

[Purveyor]

80. The 'not easy road here' will be IF clinton gets the nomination, getting the Bernie supporters to

actually turn out and vote for her.

At this snapshot in time, I can't say I would do that.

[ljm2002]

81. So do you approve of the tactics...

...at the Seattle rally today? If so, why? Do you think it is fair to single out Bernie for this treatment, out of the entire field of Democratic candidates -- not to mention the Republican candidates? Even if you are supporting Hillary rather than Bernie in the primaries, I should think that a sense of fairness would make you wonder why he and he alone is getting disrupted in this way.

I have said before, and I will say again: Yes, black lives matter. Yes, the issue is important enough to bring up independently of other issues. Yes, there is a severe problem and it is a very urgent problem and I'm glad people are speaking up about it.

But I cannot for the life of me figure out why the rage has centered on Bernie Sanders. Of all people / candidates. Just, wow.

[NanceGreggs]

83. I would suggest ...

... that if you want to know why Bernie is "being singled out", you ask the people who were involved.

[ljm2002]

84. First I asked you...

...whether you approved of the BLM Seattle tactics today.

Then I asked you whether you think it is fair that Bernie Sanders is being singled out in this way -- not why (although clearly I wonder why, but that is not the question that I posed to you).

I then *stated* that *I* cannot figure out why the rage of BLM has centered on Bernie Sanders.

Your snippy non-answer says all I needed to know. TTFN

[NanceGreggs]

85. Whether I approve or disapprove ...

... is of no consequence.

I wasn't in Seattle protesting. If you want to know why the people who were there did what they did, ask them. They are in a much better position to know than you or I.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

49. If BLM wanted to have an real impact

to the movement, they could start following cops around like the Panthers did in the sixties.
Lets see how the media would deal with that.

[NCTraveler]

82. Yes. Let's put it on POC to...

Yes. Let's put it on POC to follow the people who the state has often given a free pass in murdering in order to promote positive change. Did you ask LGBQT to go into bars yelling "who hates me, I'm making a list and am going to follow you in order to promote change!!!!"

Really offensive to say that is how they can have a real impact. They are having a real impact. The three candidates who we discuss most have all increased their rhetoric on this important issue, with BLM playing a major role in that. In the case of O'Malley and Clinton, they have actually released excellent and broad plans encompassing many of their concerns. THEY ARE HAVING A REAL IMPACT.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

94. I was thinking more of the right wing candidates and media.

Forcing them to acknowledge the issues.

[Gman]

50. That's pretty convoluted

Don't know what racist statement in 08. Must be pretty obscure as she has very deep AA support.

[Joe the Revelator]

54. Oh, I'm sure you remember....

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7845.html
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/bill-clinton-i-am-not-a-racist/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clint_n_81205.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race/

[Gman]

57. The NY Times and Politico

Talking to Bill in Monrovia and asking if he's racist? Seriously?

[ericson00]

66. Blame Bill Clinton First

love that attitude, very Republican...

[hifiguy]

71. Yep. If it looks like a ratfuck

and smells like a ratfuck, it IS a ratfuck. And this is beyond obvious.

[NCTraveler]

77. If you are going to contort yourself....

To this level in order to take a shot at Clinton, try to at least make it entertaining or use a shitload of smilies so I feel like it's a party. Thanks.

[Joe the Revelator]

78. Sorry

[emsimon33]

88. My thoughts in just the same order as yours

They are simply too obvious. However, it is a tragedy that they hijacked what could have been an effective movement for much needed change.

[sabrina 1]

90. Yep! You got that right.

[Arugula Latte]

99. It seemed like something worthy of Karl Rove.

[Skwmom]

100. Well, if they target someone else, the question that should be asked is who does it benefit?

We've already made our predictions in my house.

[stevenleser]

103. Kick nt