Sanders: Obama lost touch with grass-roots movement!

[KoKo]

Sanders, the top-ranking minority member of the Senate Budget Committee, said change is possible only when millions of people are involved.

"If you say, 'Thank you for electing me, now I'll go back and I'll see you in two or four years,' that is a recipe for failure," he said.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Sanders said there's a "huge dichotomy" between what grass-roots America feels on many issues, including pay equity for women and workers, and what happens in Washington.

"Political leadership has got to be in touch with people at the grass-roots level if anything is going to be accomplished, and Obama made a mistake in that," he said.

Sanders acknowledged that Obama has actively used social media to maintain ties with young voters, and he said most Americans support much of the president's agenda. But he noted that Republicans took control of the Senate in the last election by linking Democratic candidates to that agenda.

Sanders said the nation's leaders need to make a "revolutionary change" in how they inspire the public by encouraging people to lobby lawmakers and stage large public demonstrations to rally support for causes.

"We have to figure out how you make that connection between the American people and the legislative process," he said.

Sanders, 73, the son of a Polish-Jewish immigrant father and a New York-born mother, is a former mayor of Burlington who has served in Congress longer than any other independent. He has caucused with Democrats since his days as Vermont's lone congressman, beginning in 1991.

A self-described democratic socialist, he said lessons can be learned from the Scandinavian approach to governing — focusing on health care as a right, free higher education and an emphasis on environmental issues and childhood poverty.

Sanders said the middle class is collapsing and the gap between rich and poor is widening. The country is moving toward allowing a small number of billionaires — such as Republican brothers Charles and David Koch — to control the economic and political systems, he said. Sanders called that "absolutely a frightening scenario."

He said that process was aided by the Supreme Court's ruling in 2010 allowing corporations and unions to raise and spend unlimited amounts of money to influence elections.\

"It may well be that within a couple of years, the Koch brothers themselves, just themselves, will have a political organization stronger than either the Democrat or Republican Party, and of course, they're working with the Republicans," Sanders told the USA TODAY editors.

Sanders has been testing his message in early-voting states, including Iowa, which holds the nation's first presidential caucus. He said working people have "a hunger" for political leaders to start "taking on the billionaire class," and he predicted a "very significant rebellion" will happen as the wealthiest 1% of Americans get richer and everyone else gets poorer.

"I think the pot is boiling, and the American people are saying enough is enough, this country belongs to all of us and not just the top 1%," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/02/23/bernie-sanders-obama-grass-roots/23877153/

[ibegurpard]

1. I don't think he lost touch with it.

I think he used it.

[jaysunb]

5. You're wrong. n/t

[AgingAmerican]

190. As in intentionally

Oligarchist trojan horse.

[apnu]

195. I disagree.

For evidence I give you the 2010 mid-term elections.

[SMC22307]

250. The one we lost because the nation was pissed off about Obamacare?

The one where liberal Democrats won, but Sensible Centrists lost? Those 2010 mid-term elections?

[rhett o rick]

207. Used it to get what? Higher profits for Wall Street? That's what he got. nm

[Bjorn Against]

2. He is right

Obama had enormous grassroots support in 2008 and I believe that if he would have encouraged his supporters to take to the streets and counter the Tea Party he would have seen much better results in 2010 and 2014.

[ibegurpard]

3. he couldn't

He muscled through a Republican Healthcare "reform" idea in the Democrats' name that we are still paying the political price for.

[jaysunb]

6. Both you and Bernie are wrong. n/t

[Bjorn Against]

7. So what do you think he should have done differently to prevent the losses of 2010 and 2014?

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. Well ...

There's probably nothing he could have done ... as Democrats (that lost) ran away from him.

[Bjorn Against]

18. So you don't think he could have done anything to rally people?

[JI7]

22. he lost most of those areas himself

[delrem]

95. He was elected and then re-elected by Democrats.

Congressional and Senate Dems were pathetic in their failure to back him on anything remotely "progressive" or "leftist", allowing an ever changing fringe of "centrists" to cross the floor to stonewall everything, so the threat of a Republican filibuster became a joke. So nobody had any BELIEF left. He appointed all these "centrists" in banking, and stinkwads like Rahm who made no pretense of having anything but contempt for "the left". He appointed HRC as SoS, and all of Hillary's people from the Bill Clinton admin came along to make economic and war policy. Geithner, Rubin, Summers - Victoria Fucking Nuland.

So now, HRC is gone and LOOK HOW MUCH BETTER HIS ADMINISTRATION IS DOING!
Night and day.
Listen to the applause, from "the left". From the people that you, too, seem to have such contempt for.

We love Obama. It'd be a different universe without him as president of the US.

[1StrongBlackMan]

96. I don't have contempt for the left ...

Just that part of the left that has contempt for me.

[malokvale77]

99. That's twice.

Do you want to make it a trifecta?

[JI7]

14. those elections were mostly in conservative areas that obama lost

In his own elections

[BuelahWitch]

189. I agree. He had enormous support from the people

From the throngs who braved freezing temperatures to go to his swearing in, to those of us at home watching it. All he would have had to do was put the call out, and he would have had an army of bodies to support him in progressive legislation. He chose to "reach across the aisle" to people who did not want to work with him instead, indeed made a pact to thwart him at every turn.
The opportunity was his to waste, and he did.

[bvar22]

204. I agree.

President Obama had an ARMY standing in the streets.
[font color=white]......[/font][font size=4]Obama's Army for “CHANGE”, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]

[font color=white].....................[/font][font size=4]"Oh, What could have been."[/font]

He could have marched at the head of this Army.
Instead, he told them to go home,
and abandoned the Political Field to the Teabaggers for an entire Summer.

[Stardust]

206. I watched in dismay as he avoided any mention of voting for the down-ballot candidates.

I was ecstatic that he won, but wondered, where is the love for your fellow Dems? Surely he knew without Congress on his side, it would be next to impossible to get anything accomplished. It was, and still is, the ACA notwithstanding.

[Metric System]

4. Attacking President Obama is definitely a winning strategy.

[Number23]

8. He'll figure that out soon enough.

[giftedgirl77]

10. Lolol, I laughed out loud for real when I read that.

Boy whoever made this call fucked up big time. Mark my words how long did we talk about the social justice piece before it blew up in his face? Bernie better get on that social media also, he's going to be left in the dust real quick just trying to drive around the country.

[Fawke Em]

41. Um... he'd better get on social media?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12805515

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128014288

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128034006

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251483828

(I could go on and on, but, that's enough to make my point).

[heaven05]

215. you hang on

you're telling the truth and offending genteel privileged sensibilities that cannot be worried about ANYMORE for any reason. Our lives matter and we are important to the overall health of this political Party called Democrats, period.

[SMC22307]

251. LOLOLOL... now we're "genteel."

The insults smack of desperation.

Go, Bernie.

[heaven05]

252. not really

just a description of a long lost time in which genteel was attributed to a whole class of people, that I would call privileged today...lol Same type of people.

[SMC22307]

255. Yeah, really.

As best I can tell, the only person on this board who could be considered "genteel" is the Hillary supporter who boasts of his 1%ness. There may be more, but his posts stand out for the sheer fantasy factor.

High social status, elite, aristocratic, landed gentry, patricians, upper class... DU? Not getting that vibe at all, based on the posts and polls I've paid attention to over the years. I get the impression we're a majority of working class or middle class, and would benefit greatly from a Sanders presidency.

[heaven05]

256. I am sure

the privileged of the working class and middle class of this society WILL benefit greatly from a President Sanders.....the rest? Maybe not so. But we'll see, won't we? IF that BS presidency comes to be.........

[SMC22307]

258. "Privileged of the working class" is a complete oxymoron.

And I'm surrounded by middle classers -- white, black, brown -- who don't feel particularly privileged, what with high housing, tuition and healthcare costs, the inability to save for retirement, etc.

And, no, I'm not buying into the new and improved definition of "privileged."

[heaven05]

260. so says you

which means ZERO coming from one of whom I speak and know from responses like yours on this forum. I laugh, loudly, at you. You can't understand, because of your privilege just how transparently obvious your mentality is. It is spoken of quite frequently here, its not anything to be proud of that's for sure. You've been spotted, called out and now on total IGNORE. Have a good privileged one, yah heah.....geez, some just never learn

[SMC22307]

261. I'm crushed. (n/t)

[Fred Sanders]

15. Yes, that is indeed a master stroke of political genius and cunning - attack Obama from the left!??

[JoePhilly]

34. Maybe Bernie should run against the ACA next.

His most ardent supporters on DU hated that too.

[arcane1]

203. He's out there promoting Single Payer every day, which is very popular

Too bad Obama couldn't even defend the public option.

[JoePhilly]

212. We'd be better off without the ACA, right?

Because that's what we'd have if the public option was a deal breaker.

GOP would have loved that.

Oddly, the ACA has been much more successful than the naysayers on DU predicted.

Not a huge surprise.

[arcane1]

214. The ACA, with all its flaws, is better than nothing (so far).

The public option was a deal-breaker because the insurance industry funds both parties.

[George II]

36. If nothing else this might push Obama to break with tradition and endorse a primary candidate.

[murielm99]

92. I really don't want to see that. n/t

[WIProgressive88]

71. Attack is a bit of a strong word for Sen. Sanders's comments, isn't it?

He, quite civilly, expressed a disagreement over strategy. Hardly anything that I would consider an "attack." Whether Bernie's criticism is valid...I'm not sure. I really don't know what President Obama could have done differently in that regard.

[artislife]

149. It don't sell papers, Wip

Gotta fan the flames.

[whathehell]

170. Of course it is..

but critiques of their hero, however slight, are intolerable to the faithful.

[SMC22307]

74. You've got a peculiar interpretation of the word "attack." (n/t)

[still_one]

91. Brilliant strategy. I guess Bernie doesn't need Obama supporters to win either.

[lunamagica]

93. Right. Wonderful strategy to gain minority support

NOT!

[frylock]

97. And such a vicious attack!

Goodness!

[CanadaexPat]

165. It's a valid critique, and it's not political it's about strategy

Obama said he was going to maintain an enrrgized group of supporters but he didn't. It was a missed opportunity.

[emulatorloo]

177. And DU'ers loudly bitched whenever they got an email from OFA

[jwirr]

209. Once again you are confusing talking about tactics with attacking the

candidate.

And to be fair I don't know if he lost touch or we did not understand him. He continually said "Yes we can do." Bernie says it a bit clearer "I cannot do it alone. We have to build a movement to do it together." After the election was over the we disappeared. And again I am not sure if he let us go or if we let him go.

I do not know why President Obama spent so much time trying to get the Rs to go along with him. Even letting them cut things for the poor. And then the TPP. But I do think when he dropped the idea of a single payer healthcare plan without even a struggle that he forgot the "Yes we can do it" part of his plan.

When FDR said "You have to make me do it." he was talking to the people. Get out there and show your support for these programs. Unfortunately the last time we have seen this request from anyone was from MLK.

[giftedgirl77]

9. Oh whoever gave his campaign this advice is going

in the wrong direction. I would also like to ask what exactly about a Jewish person makes them nonwhite?

[restorefreedom]

27. what does this have to do

with the op? his religion and/or race are not being discussed.

wtf?

[Bjorn Against]

28. They are running out of attacks so the anti-semitic dog whistles are coming out.

[restorefreedom]

29. wow. that's desperation on display. nt

[giftedgirl77]

32. It's the 9th paragraph of the OP

Sanders, 73, the son of a Polish-Jewish immigrant father and a New York-born mother, is a former mayor of Burlington who has served in Congress longer than any other independent. He has caucused with Democrats since his days as Vermont's lone congressman, beginning in 1991. 

I as a younger minority American am trying to figure out what being Jewish has to do with anything. He looks like any other older white guy, why do people always say no he's Jewish.

[Bjorn Against]

38. Stop the anti-semitic dog whistling

The article is not even about his race or religion, just because the article very briefly mentions he's Jewish does not mean you need to question his status as a Jew.

And if you really want to know, his father's entire family was killed in the Holocaust. Do you really not think that just may have had an impact on Bernie's life?

[giftedgirl77]

46. Really? Antisemitic my ass. I sit on this board

quite regularly getting my ass handed to me for arguing for me & my kids to have better lives simply because our skin is brown & I have a thick Spanish accent.

I am asking seriously, I have no family that experienced WWII & we've all had fucked up shit happen to our ancestors. But I'm sorry if when I see Bernie Sanders all I see is a white guy. Does his being Jewish in this day in age really effect him or any other Jewish person? I have heard of too much racial profiling that involved a Jewish person.

I think it's a legit question.

[Bjorn Against]

53. Have you ever heard of neo-Nazis?

Yes, Jews in the United States have been the victim of hate crimes.

Much of Bernie's family was slaughtered before he even got to meet them but you act like that means nothing. In your own words you say of a man whose life was effected by the Holocaust "all I see is a white guy". That is absolutely despicable anti-semitism and you should be ashamed.

[giftedgirl77]

58. I understand WWII but what does that have to do

with now, in a country where he could easily fit in as part of the majority? Please tell me about the last Jewish person that was murdered in this country because they were Jewish. I'm almost 40 & we didn't run around school going OMG look at that kid over there he's a Jew.

But I know all to well what it was like to be called all kinds of derogatory names for Hispanics, apparently we're easier to spot.

[Bjorn Against]

63. Remember the terrorist attack on the Holocaust Museum a few years ago?

[Luminous Animal]

117. 2014. Murdered because they were Jews.

No. He does not easily fit in the majority. There is a huge anti-semitism in this country and in Europe. I, at age 57, have become a friend of a large Jewish community of friends.. They all, from personal experience, have felt singled out and threatened. And, as history as shown, in every European country, when the going gets tough, Jews are murdered. And most, at about 3% of the U.S. population, they are not so secure that similar can happen here.

Hell, the rise of fundamentalist christians is a huge threat. Many support Israel only in anticipation to seeing them wiped out to fulfill "god's" prophecy of the second coming of christ.

Jews are a target of every white supremacist org in this nation. They are also a target of Louis Farrakhan's Nation of Islam.

[giftedgirl77]

124. That's your systematic racism, this country is not

a European country how would one even know the person sitting on the train with them is Jewish? You can't argue that they don't receive the same white privilege that all other white people in this country appreciate.

Shit, it must be hard to be oppressed yet own an invisibility cloak that let's you walk among the majority without a second glance.

[Luminous Animal]

130. Because, believe it or not, there are semitic Jews who have no "invisibility cloak" and are

targeted. I've Eastern European friends who are Jewish and present as 'white' and have been belligerently confronted with, "You are a Jew."

Every single Jewish person in the U.S. has a target on their back whether they "present" as Jewish or not. There are too many hate groups, both white and black, that zero in on the Jewish community as an enemy and seek their eradication from the face of this earth from the point of irrational hatred or from the point of biblical salvation.

[giftedgirl77]

131. Ok, that group I can understand having issues because

they can be easily spotted & targeted. As far as the rest of your post which is about every Jew in America having a target on their back, that is fucking utter horseshit.

[Luminous Animal]

132. Aryan Nation. Storm Front. KKK. Aryan White Resistance. American Nazi Party. Nation of Islam.

All disagree with you. All have put a target on every Jew in America. And every Jew knows.

[giftedgirl77]

140. & how are these Jews being spotted?

Are they being systematically profiled, targeted, arrested, executed everyday or are they just dealing with all the crackpots that hate everyone equally? FYI, if it's the 2d one well then welcome to America & avoid the internet other than that please enjoy your white privilege on a daily basis.

[whathehell]

171. Get real...Have you never heard of someone

"looking Jewish" in appearance? Have you never recognized a Jewish name?

Did you never heat of Jesse Jackson referring to New York City as "Hymie Town'?

If not, you've obviously got a lot of catching up to do.

Try leaving your black and white bubble once in awhile to check out the world in all itt's color and complexity.

[Maedhros]

178. How are gay people spotted?

We should ignore their plight because they look like everyone else?

[R B Garr]

181. Exactly, they are just trying to inoculate Bernie from criticism and

throwing his Jewish heritage in as a roadblock. I saw this call to arms right away as they mentioned in various threads about Black Lives Matter that Bernie was Jewish. So the takeaway is that the mere existence of a 73-year-old white man who happens to be Jewish is commensurate with AA's being racially profiled by police and shot dead. It's really just too stupid for words what is going on here. At least the rest of the internet is figuring this out and Bernie supporters are being shunned and ridiculed for their overbearing and false tactics. Don't let them badger you; you are right.

[jwirr]

219. Once again the past has no effect on anyone unless it is 400 years of

oppression. No one can possibly understand unless that has happened to them.

[heaven05]

240. Oh man !!!!!!!

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:52 AM - Edit history (1)

what BS. Jewish people are viewed for the most part as Caucasian in skin tone. A Jewish person CAN hide in plain sight from those groups mentioned above that you are so terribly concerned about and afraid of. Pogroms of the Jewish people, historically, are a reality, true. No argument. The day to day reality of the continuing white racism, ignorance and stupidity of the members of the 5 groups you mentioned, as well as many just plain privileged white folks of amercan society, in your response above, are calling for the eradication of black americans and/or a return to historical subservience of POC to the american white race, no matter the class, in the least possible scenario. Those mentioned by you are NOT actively looking for a new pogrom against the Jewish people unless one of their members start spouting off about ovens and the like. . Like I said a majority of Jewish people can, if they so choose, hide in plain sight in any country. Now let's discuss where a POC can hide......

[jwirr]

218. Well one very easy way to tell a Jewish person is that they go to a

synagogue to worship just like many black people go to a black church. Also often by their names.

You said that they do not get harassed in schools - untrue. I suggest you google "hate crimes - Jews" and do a little bit of self education. The FBI has reported that 60.3% of hate crimes are from persons with an anti-Jewish bias.

[Luminous Animal]

220. I think you are addressing the wrong person.

[jwirr]

223. Sorry, that happens when old eyes do not see the right lines. I was

addressing the person who wants to know what the significance of being Jewish is.

[heaven05]

242. Yeah sure,

and one easy way to spot a POC, is driving, walking, shopping, filling a car at a gas station, walking with friends in the street, looking for a toy gun in a walmart, walking through the "wrong " neighborhood wearing a hoodie, selling unlicensed cigarettes to put food on the table because one can't find a job, hell just playing, as a 12 YEAR OLD CHILD, with a toy gun, while being black can be fatal....now in all these cases, if they were Jewish, how could they be described as jewish???? Your FBI statistic....BS. 100% percent of race related crime against unarmed POC, by white or white looking racist americans, badge wearing or just plain zimmerman, dylaan roof or oath keeper citizen, in america, is race related and based on virulent hate of black skin.

[jwirr]

246. Not denying any of that. The questioner is insisting the black people are

the only ones who ever get harassed. If we are going to work on this issue together we need to stop shooting the supporters. Many people have faced horrible situations in their lives. Today it is black men who are the ones facing the crisis. And we need to fight this crisis together.

You because you are black. Me because my family are all POC. It does not good to fight between us.

[heaven05]

248. When the privileged people here

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:48 AM - Edit history (4)

stop calling members in #BlackLivesMatter "shit for brains", sunday aug 9th, here on DU, "shitheads" aug 1 here on DU in describing POC in Baltimore and using all the 'code words' inherent in racist society dialog when discussing POC, I will try to work with my "allies". And that "societal dialog" mentioned means having the "privilege" of being able to describe any type of POC in terms seemingly, maybe, compassionate, while surreptitiously making disparaging remarks about POC in the "inner cities" and "urban" areas that they feel are full of "thugs". Then maybe I can feel like the center and center right of this party, whose ideology is always suspect to me, is not in control of most of the dialog here concerning POC. Lately they seem to be majority BS supporters who disparage #BlackLivesMatter.

And for the record...it has ALWAYS been the black man in particular and POC in general that have faced the most hate from america's privileged.

I have been fighting with the 'help' of "allies" every since I fought the confederate flag waving assholes in Vietnam...69, not many "allies" there. My father has fought them, he was career army, not many "allies" there, my grandfather fought them, on his land, in Georgia, after his service in the Spanish-american war, not many "allies" there on his land except family and damn sure none before, during and after he was taking Kettle Hill in that "Hearst War" in Cuba. IF black americans had really had allies to count on, in numbers overwhelming and which couldn't be discounted, in time frame I mentioned, systemic, institutional and cultural racism would be in the dustbin of american history. It is not and coming back stronger than ever with the help of Fox snooze racists, rush limbaugh racists, "southern heritage" confederate flag waving racist murderers, oathkeeper racists and the racists in both political parties. No "allies" there.

This "crisis" has been going on for a long time and the supporters of a certain candidate are throwing gasoline on the fire of that "crisis" EVERY DAY. I'll feel I have real "allies" when that furtive, sneaky, underhanded and obviously hateful mentality of many here leaves #BlackLivesMatter alone and quits trying to tell POC how to demonstrate anger and frustration, when to demonstrate anger and frustration and to who we should demonstrate anger and frustration at given the many summary executions and murders of unarmed POC by the zimmerman's', wilson's, killers of 12 year old children and racist, thuggish white oathkeepers of white society. Then maybe we can work together..............don't need any "allies" otherwise. REALLY. With "allies" like those mentioned.......

[bvar22]

217. Sometimes, if you look close,

.....you can see the numbers tattooed on their forearms by the Nazis.

[tavalon]

126. First rule of holes

Stop digging. You are losing this argument. And showing ignorance.

Senator Sanders is white and he cares about you and your family.

[cali]

158. clueless. antisemitic acts happen with alarming regularity in this country

[JustAnotherGen]

184. I've got to disagree with you on this

You might not have been in an area with a heavy concentration of people who are jewish. But anti Semitism in America today is very strong.

It's like this - when I relate my dad's experience growing up in the South and it is dismissed -

Well his experiences are those voices and people he grew up with or who 'disappeared'. One uncle lynched. It might have been long ago in a faraway place -

But it exists in this world today.

But what ALSO exists in my world today are the slurs my mom's dad experienced growing up in Pittsburgh in the 1920's/1930's - and it was that experience as a Jewish little boy that gave him the hatred to kill Nazis. And that exists in me today.

I may get a hide for this - but my fear for Sanders is my same fear for Obama. Our darling, intelligent, kind, brave President has been through hell based on the color of his skin - outside of Illinois.

America isn't Vermont and there are foaming at the mouth bigots who hate Jews in our midst. They judge by physical appearance (stereotypes), surnames, and in our language 'shyster' - equivalent to me of pickaninny. They judge by address, streets, and towns. I live in Central NJ - and its plain as day to me -

I've even heard two of my dear friends referred to as "Jewesses" with a wink and smile to me and a big fuck you back to me.

We can't dismiss this experience.

We simply can't.

So - I have the same fear for Sanders. I think heads will explode if after a black President we have a Jewish President or a Woman. If its either of them - watch the death threats and attempts go three fold because these people have been at the breaking point ever since Obama stood on that stage in Chicago in 2008 and did that victory 'stand'.

[jwirr]

222. So very much agree with you I fear for both of them. And in President

Obama's case also for his family. The haters in this country have absolutely no principles and they will stop at nothing to get their way.

[John Poet]

101. You're over-reacting to an honest question, IMHO,

and instantly labeling someone as guilty of "absolutely despicable anti-Semitism" just because they profess ignorance about the lives of Jews, and ask "what's it all about"-- that's WAY over the top and WAY out of line.

seems like YOU should be ashamed.

Why does everyone around here seem so quick to apply the 'racist' label to people they don't even know?

[Bjorn Against]

107. I am not one bit ashamed for calling out this bigotry

This person has been told repeatedly in this thread that Bernie's family was killed in the Holocaust and she dismisses it with the words "all I see is a white guy". I think that is disgusting and I am going to say so even if you don't like my opinion.

[giftedgirl77]

115. I'm not dismissing anything. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I am simply trying to find out what systematic racism has Bernie Sanders or any other Jewish people dealt with in this country. I have never heard of someone being stopped for driving while Jewish, or being accused of being drug dealers or undocumented while Jewish so please explain the terrible daily hardships they must endure....

Who exactly am I being racist to, I didn't know pointing out that someone was white was racist?

[Bjorn Against]

116. I did not put words in your mouth, I quoted you directly

You were told Bernie's family was killed in the Holocaust and you dismissively responded "all I see is a white guy". Those are your words, I did not put them in your mouth.

[whathehell]

172. "I didn't know that pointing out someone was white was racist"

You clearly don't,'t know a LOT of things,.

[John Poet]

121. Oh, I see. So, since Bernie's family was killed in the Holocaust,

that means that he's NOT a 'white guy'? (even though he IS a white Jew...) Is that what you're taking umbrance at here? because I don't quite get your reaction at all.

I don't see what she wrote as 'dismissive', just a lack of understanding. Lacking understanding about being jewish or what the significance is, or how the Holocaust effects their lives today, does not make one a bigot for asking.

[Bjorn Against]

122. I never said he wasn't white

I said it was dismissive to respond to the information that his family was killed in the Holocaust with the words "all I see is a white guy", and it is dismissive.

[nashville_brook]

247. folks trying to point out the anti-semitism used kid gloves with the poster

there's dozens of her posts worthy of being hid, but instead of alerting, fellow DU'ers tried to point the poster in the right direction.

it's too bad that the poster had to flame out like this.

[heaven05]

210. BS

Last edited Sat Aug 15, 2015, 10:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Jewish people for the most part are viewed, when it comes to skin color, as CAUCASIAN. Period. I don't see any anti-semitism in stating that fact. Yeah and POC are still being gunned down in the streets in what could be construed as hate crimes. What's the point you are trying you make? Yeah and stop the victim stuff okay. It's boring and senseless.

[dflprincess]

86. It wasn't exactly Bernie's ancestors (which implies generations ago) that "experienced WWII"

it was his dad.

There's been lots of research done on the kids of Holocaust survivors and how what their parents' went through have shaped their lives and attitudes.

[1monster]

42. Ah... Jews are a minority too. Not all minority groups have

darker skin tones.

[Fawke Em]

45. Most Jewish people and most Arabic people can be "white,"

but they are still Semitic, which is really a "brown" race.

My son is half Arabic and has a Muslim name. He's technically a person of color, although he checks "Caucasian" on government forms since I'm white and, technically, Semitic people are Caucasian, more in their bone structure than skin color (which ranges from white to dark brown).

That said, Jewish people, traditionally, and Arabic people, especially currently, have and are discriminated against. Heck, many Arab-Americans are being treated almost as badly as black people when pulled over by police these days (not as bad... yet, but with all the anti-Arab sentiment out there, I shudder to think it won't be long until they are shot in the back, too).

The point the article is making is that he's the son of immigrants and, based on his religion, has experience discrimination.

[giftedgirl77]

50. I'm on another board fighting a Muslim BS right now..

I'm Puerto Rican & my son's are half black. My boyfriend is Paki, he checks Asian, the rest of us usually check the black then Latino boxes.

I'm well aware of skin tones, all of ours vary dramatically depending on the time of the year. I'm not religious, which is why I was asking for more clarification.

[Fawke Em]

55. Yeah, my son isn't Muslim.

But, because my ex husband is Muslim, my son, obviously, has a Muslim name. My son is an atheist. His educational concentration is in science and math, so he based his beliefs on that.

He will leave home in two years to go to college and I, frankly, worry that he will be targeted as a result of his name. He's grown up his entire life in our neighborhood and no one thinks he's some Jihadist nut based solely on his name, but when you start reading about the FBI's stings on Muslims and others, you begin to worry as a parent.

I guess what I'm saying is that the color of one's skin isn't the only thing that can be discriminated against, as you well know.

I don't think the paragraph you referenced was anything other than a slight background linking Sanders to both his understanding of immigration issues and discrimination.

(And what's a Muslim BS?)

[giftedgirl77]

62. I'm atheist & so are my kid's...

I've got tattoos all over my body & I'm from Miami. Throw in there that my boyfriend's Paki & we live in SC it is never a dull moment.

There's a there about evil ISIS & Islam you know otherwise known as Thursday.

[Fawke Em]

68. We're in Tennessee.

Not quite as bigoted as SC, but pretty close.

[giftedgirl77]

77. Thankfully, I live in a more educated part known for

some horse tracks & stuff. We have a good time, just tend to avoid crowds. He does better than I do, I'm a retired vet & he really is my rock, I don't tell him that though.

[John Poet]

114. Jews are a race, as well as a religion (Judaism),

originally based around Palestine/Israel. About 2,000 years ago, their political state was obliterated and the people dispersed all over the ancient world. Most of them wound up in Europe and became mixed in with all the various nationalities there.... so the "race" now tends to be varied as to skin tones and such (as noted in another post), but the religion is their unifying factor--- although in the modern age, many probably do not practice it so much anymore.

Christianity sprang from Judaism, as Jesus and his 12 disciples were Jews.

In the western world, it is true that there is less 'profiling' and anti-Semitism than there used to be, but it does still happen way too much. What happened in World War II and the holocaust may seem like ancient history to younger people, but there are still some holocaust survivors around who experienced it first hand.

I'm no expert, either, so hopefully I haven't made any errors here. Trying to avoid that I may be rather vague.

[giftedgirl77]

119. Thank you, all I was trying to understand is what the

whole issue was with Jewish people. I'm 37 & we have an understanding of Israel supposedly having some sacred holding but never understood it all. I have never seen a box on any census form that listed Jewish as a race or ethnicity which is why I couldn't understand it being in that category.

I just can't understand why he's Jewish would make a difference if it was only his religion. That's all I was trying to get at.

[whathehell]

221. Judaism is a RELiGION, not a "race".

At best, Ashkenazi Jews, those from Europe, might be considered an ethnicity, but they are primarily

a religious group of Caucasians.

[PoliticAverse]

135. "My boyfriend is Paki" - Note that "Paki" is considered a racially offensive term. n/t

[giftedgirl77]

137. Paki, is shorter than me typing out the whole word.

But I'll be sure to tell him when he gets home, I'm sure he'll be shocked to find out.😱

[PoliticAverse]

139. Here is an article with some history on the matter...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6740445.stm

[giftedgirl77]

141. Ahh, that explains it, it's slang

that's how we use it & always have. Newsflash I use the n work too (no hard r) & so does he we use these terms as terms of endearment. Accept that we use slang & move on where we come from it's normal. No you can't.

[jwirr]

213. I do not think his family was seen as white in Germany during WWII.

However, I also do not see what that has to do with anything except maybe that he has a pretty good understanding of racism dating back centuries in Europe. They were pushed into ghettoes and hated for who they were. Eventually it got worse they were murdered by TPTB in the holocaust - millions of them.

When they fled from Germany many of them were refused entry into other countries. And they were not welcome when they were given entry.

Even today there are many in this country that hate Jewish people. RW churches, KKK, white supremacist groups, and others. Did you see the article on DU the other day regarding the hate symbols painted on homes, cars and temples in a Jewish neighborhood?

Does that help a bit? Sound a bit familiar?

[giftedgirl77]

31. This is the 9th paragraph of the OP..

Sanders, 73, the son of a Polish-Jewish immigrant father and a New York-born mother, is a former mayor of Burlington who has served in Congress longer than any other independent. He has caucused with Democrats since his days as Vermont's lone congressman, beginning in 1991. 

It has been brought up repeatedly that Sanders is Jewish. I understand the Holocaust & that the man went through some shit. But that man in America is white & as a younger minority American, I am trying to understand how him being Jewish effects him negatively or makes him nonwhite at all? I think it's better to ask then just make shit up, especially since being Jewish seems like a big deal.

[restorefreedom]

35. you are the only person so far

that cares one whit that he is jewish. the other candidates haven't mentioned it, and the christian right wingers would never speak badly of a jew.

no one ever said whether he was white or nonwhite or even brought it up. he is white and jewish.he lost family in the holocaust.

not sure what this has to do with anything.

[giftedgirl77]

54. My point exactly...

In this day and age in this country, where white men have all the power why should I care that the guy is Jewish? Why is well he's a Jew thrown out there as street credit or something?

[SMC22307]

70. If you had a shred of humanity, you might care that his paternal family...

was wiped out by fucking Nazis. You've really got to be playing dumb if you don't grasp that, or why calling his supporters "white supremacist liberals" is repulsive.

[giftedgirl77]

73. I don't know any of my family on my mother's side &

none on my father's side. I am truly trying to put this into perspective. In this country now, & for a long time a person such as Sanders can walk down the street without being harassed, he can drive a nice car without the cops assuming it's stolen, he's not going to get followed through a store, & nobody is asking him about his citizenship so please explain to me what is so bad about being Jewish?

[SMC22307]

87. This isn't a contest to see which minority group has it worse.

Are you honestly not grasping that family history has an impact on a person, especially if said family was wiped out in the Holocaust? Or on AAs who have traced their history to certain slaves? My people were poor -- Appalachia poor -- coal miners. I didn't know them, but I know the history and feel a connection to them. That history has shaped my political views.

[giftedgirl77]

103. I'm Puerto Rican of the darker variety depending on the

time of the year & my son's are also half black American so yeah I get the lineage thing. But once again when someone is in that bracket of average white guy, here in America in 2015 the discrimination level drops a bit.

So please explain to me why his being Jewish makes a damn bit of difference? I asked the person who wrote the OP but apparently, it's just a dime piece & nothing more.

[SMC22307]

133. How many average white guys had family wiped out in the Holocaust?

#BLM made "his being Jewish" an issue, demanding that he bow down, and derisively referring to his supporters as white supremacist liberals. At least one of the Seattle #BLMers (the one who can choke on my white tears) is aligned with the virulent, anti-Semitic Louis Farrakhan. Who needs the right-wing when we've got this particular faction of #BLM?

[SMC22307]

138. The guy? The family? Strangers? 10 yes maybe 15?

WTF are you going on about?

[SMC22307]

144. No one is suggesting that as a strategy, but you.

And since you're getting your ass handed to you in this thread, you may want to try another tack.

[giftedgirl77]

145. Oh yeah, how about Farrakhan is part Jewish?

So there went the scary black people are after the Jews. So who exactly is bringing this poor, unfortunate group of majority white people down or causing them to be targeted?

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/nation-islams-louis-farrakhan-claims-jewish-ancestry/

[SMC22307]

147. Farrakhan In His Own Words

....

During a sermon at Fellowship Chapel in Detroit in May 2013, Farrakhan told the audience that the “Synagogue of Satan,” a phrase he uses repeatedly to refer to Jews, has “mastered civilization now, but they’ve mastered it in evil,” using its control of Hollywood and the media to “put you before the world in this disgraceful matter.”

Throughout these and other speaking engagements, Farrakhan has heavily promoted the second volume of the NOI’s anti-Semitic book The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews. This volume, subtitled, “How Jews Gained Control of the Black American Economy,” blames Jews for promoting a myth of black racial inferiority and makes a range of conspiratorial accusations about Jewish involvement in the slave trade and in the cotton, textiles, and banking industries. Both books, according to Farrakhan, should be taught in schools across the U.S.

....

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/united-states/c/farrakhan-nation-of-islam-noi-in-his-own-words.html

I can post links, too.

[giftedgirl77]

148. Yeah, he's not all bad. Has some pretty good ideas

it's no wonder so many younger people are supporting his efforts.

[beam me up scottie]

153. You are actually praising Louis Farrakhan? The bigot who said "Hilter was a very great man"?

Jesus fucking Christ.

The level of hatred for Bernie has sunk to an all time low on DU.

The disgusting Anti-Semitic posts in this thread would be a bannable offense if they were posted about any other minority on DU.

Unbelievable.

[cali]

159. good to know who.defends hateful bigots.

[jwirr]

227. He was smart enough to set up some pretty good social programs as

recruiting tools.

[SMC22307]

249. And they'll get bupkis, just like older Farrakhan supporters.

He's been at this for over 40 years... what positive has he brought about for blacks? How are his supporters any different from those of Pat Robertson? They're fed nothing but bullshit and hate.

MILWAUKEE, Wisc. (Christian Examiner) – After two weeks of news reports that Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan had called for an army of 10,000 volunteers to kill white people if the government doesn't give the black community "justice," Farrakhan is reshaping his message – but only slightly.

In a new video of a three-hour address given Aug. 13, Farrakhan said white people (presumably the news media reporting on his previous comments) reported his controversial comments to provoke a race war when he gathered with his followers at the 20th anniversary of the Million Man March on Oct. 10 in Washington, D.C.

Three hours and 18 minutes into the video, Farrakhan says:

"I wouldn't bring our young women and young men into some place to be slaughtered. But that's what the white man hopes for. That's why he makes mischief with my words. 'Farrakhan wanna get an army to kill people,' because, you see, white people deserve to die. And they know so and they think it's us coming to do it. No, no, no."

http://www.christianexaminer.com/article/farrakhan.shouts.allah.akbar.says.white.people.know.they.deserve.to.die/49371.htm

He isn't helping blacks, and he isn't helping Muslims. Send that racist asshole and the true white supremacists to their own planet and let them duke it out. Let the rest of us live in peace.

[beam me up scottie]

154. "what is so bad about being Jewish?"

The fact that you don't understand the difference between not knowing members of your family and why Bernie and millions of other Jews will never get to know the ones they lost in the Holocaust is astounding.

I would go on but it's obvious you don't care about certain minorities and the type of hatred they have to face.

Shame on you.

[jwirr]

224. But those are not the only ways one can be discriminated against. And

he is not suggesting that he faces daily discrimination. What many of us are thinking is that his families experience during WWII and the kind of Jewish discrimination that does go on today helps him understand at least to a point about the discrimination that others are facing today in the USA.

[restorefreedom]

72. HE is not throwing anything out there

bernie isn't even discussing his religion...and very few people mention it

it is part of his personal history, and most candidates provide a bio when they are running.

you know, like how hillary's mom was a "housemaid." --how many times is she going to trot that out to try and connect to the commoners?

[giftedgirl77]

105. So is the I'm Jewish a way to try & connect

with us lowly minorities?

[restorefreedom]

106. no one called minorities lowly

those are your words.

and he isn't pulling the "i'm Jewish" routine. and everyone here damn well knows it.

[giftedgirl77]

109. Duly noted, please inform the OP of that.

[restorefreedom]

111. no need

it was mentioned briefly as part of his personal backstory, but you know that, too




moving on now...

[jwirr]

228. No.

[Autumn]

83. Oh I don't know. Maybe because Jewish people have had a history of slavery and oppression.

Maybe because about six million Jews, out of a Jewish population of nine million living in Europe were systematically murdered by the Nazis. Maybe because whole families were murdered, like Bernie's Father was the only survivor of his family. I think that his "street credits or something" actually match anybody's on this board and I'm willing to bet they surpass them.

[giftedgirl77]

108. So, his whole family dying & him never knowing any of them

should provide some sort of understanding of the minority plight of being racially profiled, harassed, stalked, arrested & murdered? This is what I'm trying to understand, I know when my grandmother was growing up in Chicago she would be called a n@#$%r & they were treated like shit & they were Italian. But all of that is resolved & all of the white men in this country love each other & get a long so why is the fact that he's Jewish have any relevancy?

[Luminous Animal]

125. Bernie is 73 years old. He know what it is like being stalked, profiled, harassed and murdered.

He knows what it is like to be called a kike, he knows what it is like to have your community targeted for mass annihilation. He knows that there are groups in the U.S. and around the world still advocating for mass annihilation of his community including fundamentalist christians.

[Autumn]

156. Jewish people were racially profiled, harassed, stalked, arrested & murdered

called names and treated like shit and worse. You don't have a lock on that. Now I'm done with you and your little anti-semitism game.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

163. Results of alert

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This poster is badgering and accusing another poster as an anti-Semite. The other poster is doing NO SUCH THING. This accusatory game playing has reached new levels of ridiculous. Enough.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:50 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Plenty of accusation to go around in this sub-thread. I don't see a personal attack here, just a characterization of a post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Giftedgirl77 is being completely disingenuous. if anything her repeated posts of willful ignorance should be blocked.

I agree with this post, it appears as if Autumn just got fed up with giftedgirl77's bullshit.

this entire thread was made completely ugly by giftedgirl77. not only should her comments be blocked she should be kicked off of DU


Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Maedhros]

179. Note that giftedgirl 77 is being presented as a martyr in a protected group

because she got a timeout.

Apparently minimizing the struggle of Jewish people is OK now, because they look like white people?

What about LGBTQ people - they look like everyone. I guess we shouldn't pay much attention to their issues either?

[Autumn]

225. Yeah I saw that,

[Maedhros]

232. It's trend; hides for bad conduct are now "silencing" posters.

That particular poster struck me as provocative, antagonistic and impulsive. A timeout doesn't seem that far fetched. I mean, given what happened to NYC_SKP...

[Autumn]

234. Sometimes a time out is deserved and that's not silencing a poster.

The admins have a good system set up. No one racks up 6 hides for no reason.

[Puglover]

237. Are you fucking kidding me?

After the shit she has posted?

If it is the group that I suspect it is that group is happily residing in my trash can. But defending the antisemitic blather that she posted? Really? A new low.

Wow, why does the "support" the LGTB folks got from some of those posters over the Rick Warren fiasco spring to mind?

As so many are so fond of saying. Thank God in no way does DU represent the real world.

[Autumn]

226. Thanks for the results. I'm glad to see the jury got

what she was doing.

[jwirr]

231. And no matter how white they looked they were the subject of

genealogists who documented their ethnic make up to prove they were not white. How's that for profiling?

[jwirr]

229. You really need to get an education. What you said about the plight of

minorities is exactly how Jews were treated. The way you say your family in Chicago was treated is no different than the way his family were treated.

As to how all white men in this country love each other and get along. Well not quite. Remember that long list of person's who hate Jews in this country - they still exist and they still hate.

[John Poet]

60. I've run into a few Hillary backers on Facebook

who've said flat out that a Jew can't be elected.

[giftedgirl77]

66. I don't get what Jewish has to do with anything?

It must be an age thing.

[ibegurpard]

110. you do realize that Jewish people are STILL

To this DAY hated and targetted by REAL white supremacists do you not?

[John Poet]

127. Some people hate Jews as a group, the way

some people hate African-Americans or Hispanics or LGBTs or Asians or any other racial or religious minority
(and quite a few of the same people hate all of them).

It is true that many Jews having a less distinct racial appearance (appearing white, as you say) may make it more difficult for racists to target Jews in the same way that racists could target African-Americans, as you can't necessarily tell they are Jewish just by looking at them-- but when they find out someone is Jewish, they can still become victims of hate crimes.

It wasn't that long ago that a supposedly modern, supposedly civilized nation (Germany) systematically rounded them up and murdered six million of them. They fear that it could happen again, even in the US, under the wrong conditions.

This is why many of them felt it necessary to re-establish their own state, Israel, so that there would be at least one safe place where this could never happen.

[giftedgirl77]

128. Stop explaining, I got it.

I already responded to your other one.

[nashville_brook]

175. it's not an "age thing" -- it's an anti-semitism thing.

if it's respect for your identity that you'd like to receive, you should understand when another group has suffered the same and refrain from using age-old slurs.

[beam me up scottie]

236. ^^^I wish I could rec your post, nashville brook^^^

Not the first time I've seen this kind of disrespect and bigotry on DU and I'm sure it won't be the last.

[nashville_brook]

239. given that there's a history of anti-semitism in some brands of nationalism

the optics in this thread are disgusting. If this poster wasn't aware of this dynamic, she might use her time-out to read up on it.

I just can't believe what i'm reading in there.

[beam me up scottie]

241. She didn't listen to what the other posters were telling her.

The way she kept doubling down on her offensive comments in spite of the info provided suggested it wasn't ignorance.

And the reference to Louis Farrakhan proved it beyond a doubt.

I don't understand how anyone could defend that kind of behaviour on DU.

[nashville_brook]

243. i guess i'm just old school - i believe solidarity should extend in all directions

if one group is going to decry their identity-based discrimination, it seems it should be *easier* -- not more difficult -- to recognize when you're doing that to other groups.

i caught the Farrakhan reference too. i can't believe that anyone familiar with him could miss the whole anti-semitism thing.

digging deeper, it's not doing anyone any good if the anti-semitism here is predicated on "all I see is a white guy." is it okay now to hate "old white guys"?

when there's so much focus on who to hate, nothing gets done on the matter at hand.

[beam me up scottie]

244. Agreed.

All hate crimes are vile and no one should be excusing hatred towards any minority on DU.

Or hating anyone because of the colour of their skin.

The only winners in an 'Oppression Olympics' are the GOP and the real racists.

[nashville_brook]

245. "Oppression Olympics" is spot-on. n/t

[SMC22307]

254. I mentioned it not being a contest upthread...

"Oppression Olympics" is freakin' PERFECT.

[Raine1967]

11. Pretty bad strategy.

Bernie might not want to alienate Obama supporters.

He also might not want to alienate the people who worked had don the grassroots level to get him elected.

Don't underestimate us, we are not disillusioned. OFA still exists.

That he is going after Obama is very curious.

[sheshe2]

40. Well

Bernie might not want to alienate Obama supporters.

I am pretty sure he already has.

[Fawke Em]

48. I was an Obama supporter.

Didn't like HRC then. Don't like her now.

She's fine on social issues, but I don't like her hawkishness, her cosiness with Wall Street and her triangulation on matters that effect working people.

[WIProgressive88]

76. Same here.

Completely behind Bernie, and he reflects my views better than any Democratic candidate in recent memory. I also think that Mr. Obama is a good man who's done a great job as president, particularly considering the completely deranged opposition he's faced from the right. I'm proud to have donated to, voted, and volunteered for a man who I firmly believe will be remembered as a fine president once the dust has settled.

[artislife]

151. Me, too

But after the election, all that work together...we could have converted into something more.

That's how I read Sanders words. The great coalition of people who worked hard for President Obama to be elected. That great connection could have morphed into something more than just getting him elected.

Those were some fun times. I still see some people but we all kind of found our own way to different groups.

It is blame, I think it is watching what was set up and seeing it happen again with his campaign. He is kind of promising to keep it going so to push issues after the election.

I will miss President Obama, Michelle and those two young women...whew, they were girls when they arrived.

But lets keep the connections we are all starting to make in our locales and keep it up.

[Raine1967]

49. To be truly honest

I don't think bringing an article from last february is going to help.

I have far less a problem with Sanders than a select group of his supporters that I have seen, and I am not talking about exclusively about DU. I am talking specifically about what I see on video/youtube, twitter and other social media platforms.

Having said that, this statement from this article is not helping. Like I said, Obama became President. He didn't abandon grassroots,he didn't lose touch… he got elected.

Tell me how he lost touch when he goes to Martha's Table year in and year out. HE asks everyone to play a part in a day of service EVERY YEAR.

I disagree with what Sanders said in February. I deeply disagree with a segment of his supporters.

[Fred Sanders]

12. Which political party was Sanders a member of when Obama "lost touch" with the party grassroots?

Note to see: Remind some folks that attacking Obama to win over voters for another candidate will work out as well as it is now for another target and the same candidate.

[Indydem]

43. Not the Democratic Party.

He's a Democratic Socialist, remember.

Bernie Sanders - Not a Democrat.

[Fred Sanders]

80. Has Sanders previously ever called himself anything other than a "socialist", without added words?

[truebluegreen]

118. Yes.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121680/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialist-not-just-socialist

Article references interviews from 2006 and 2007. You're welcome.

[Fred Sanders]

161. In the same dated article there is this, so he seems to use all kinds of terms:

"But the Vermont senator himself is loose with his terminology, as he has praised the “long social-democratic tradition” of Nordic countries as examples of how the United States should operate as a nation. For instance, points to Finland's universal healthcare, free childcare, parental leave benefits, free higher education, low income inequality, and overwhelming unionization of workers. And sometimes he does indeed refer to himself, simply, as "a socialist."

[truebluegreen]

166. Thanks. I read it too.

Your question was: " Has Sanders previously ever called himself anything other than a "socialist", without added words?" The answer was, and remains, "yes."

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. And yet ...

Political leadership has got to be in touch with people at the grass-roots level if anything is going to be accomplished, and Obama made a mistake in that," he said.

The vast majority of that "grass roots movement" AKA the (President) Obama Coalition approves of his performance. Go figure!

[giftedgirl77]

21. This isn't going to go well at all.

Notice how it's all about the economic message as well? Do they not know exactly who Obama's grassroot campaign was. Apparently they were never taught don't bite the hand that feeds you. Can't wait for this to hit twitter.

[1StrongBlackMan]

23. This isn't the first time he has said this. n/t

[haikugal]

69. Do you honestly think that "the grass roots" only refers to people of color?

Curious.

[1StrongBlackMan]

75. No ...

the Democratic grass roots include, woman, LGBT, the young, as well as PoC ... all of whom approve of President Obama's presidency.

[ibegurpard]

78. Yeah not this one

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. Okay ...

That still doesn't change the fact that the majority of the (President) Obama Coalition remains intact and a substantial majority approve of his presidency.

[ibegurpard]

98. you mistake his win in 2012 for an approval vote for him

I voted for him both times.
I was overjoyed when he won in 2008. I was relieved when his opponent lost in 2012. I personally know no one who is overly enthusiastic about Obama. His approval ratings are a testament to my anecdotes not being unique.

[truebluegreen]

120. Your excellent characterization exactly matches my own feelings:

overjoyed when he won, relieved when his opponent lost.

[840high]

134. +10

[1StrongBlackMan]

160. No ... I am correctly reading the 2010 - the present polling of Democrats. n/t

[Babel_17]

208. Approve of, yes

That doesn't necessarily mean that they hadn't hoped for a more aggressively progressive agenda from the administration. Which is what I think Sanders was getting at, the administration could have done better at discussing why progressive goals weren't being met. (and as POTUS he'll inevitably get some of the backlash from disappointed progressives) That would be the subject of a good, and comprehensive, poll. Though people who design polls seem to have a lot of trouble with nuance. I suppose that's because their careers revolve around trying to herd people into categories. Not easy at best.

[1StrongBlackMan]

211. I think you hit on it here ...

and as POTUS he'll inevitably get some of the backlash from disappointed progressives

Progressives are disappointed, the Democratic base is not.

[haikugal]

79. Thanks, yes it does include all those people plus the old. I wasn't sure.

Your statement about all of them approving of President Obama's presidency is true as well but that doesn't mean he has stood firm on some very important things. It also doesn't mean we don't recognize that he is a third way corporate dem and we don't want that anymore.

The grass roots are not with Hillary for that reason. There are many not in the D camp that might find Bernies message welcome as well. We'll see..

[1StrongBlackMan]

94. Yes ... will will. n/t

[Raine1967]

102. Thank you.

I thought this was obvious. I appreciate this being said.

Signed,

A grassroots woman.

[sheshe2]

143. Thank you.

the Democratic grass roots include, woman, LGBT, the young, as well as PoC ... all of whom approve of President Obama's presidency.

[Andy823]

17. This article was from February 23, 2015

Before he even decided to run. Now I know that the "anti-Obama" crowd loves this stuff, it's not what Bernie is now saying, or part of his plan to win the WH. Trashing Obama might be OK with some here on DU, but it won't go over with the vast majority of democrats who will be voting in the primaries.

[KoKo]

19. Bernie hasn't changed his message...if anything his message has Grown in Scope....

But, the basics are there. We know that when ACORN was disbanded and Rahm Emmanuel was put in place it was the Demise of the Grass Roots that Howard Dean in his "50 State Strategy" was so successful in building.

Once that was gutted we Progressive/Left Dems no longer had a strong voice in the Party. Bernie is working to give us that voice once again.

[Adrahil]

56. Is Bernie a Democrat? I haven't heard him say so. nt

[ibegurpard]

85. He's running for President as one

[Adrahil]

155. Not quite true...

Last edited Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

He's running for the Democratic party nomination....

I'd like to hear him say, unambiguously, "I am a Democrat."

He's has explicitly said in the past that he's NOT a Democrat. And over the years, he's made it clear that he does not hold the party in terribly high regard.

I understand why he did that in Vertmont. But I do not think it's unreasonable to expect him to actually embrace the party he wants to nominate him for President.

[SidDithers]

162. Nailed it...

he's not a Democrat until he self-identifies as a Democrat.

And I expect that there are Democrats who won't vote for a guy who can't bring himself to say "I'm a Democrat".

Sid

[ibegurpard]

164. I have no doubt

That were he to do so you'd simply move the goalposts again.
If he wins the nomination he's a Democrat.
In the meantime how about that NDP eh?

[frylock]

188. Seems that the only people hung up on that distinction have no intention of voting for him anyway..

so lets say that Sanders finally comes around and calls himself a Democrat. How does that affect your day-to-day?

[Adrahil]

193. Well, here's why it's important to me.

Like it or not, our politics rely heavily on the power of party politics. The President, whoever they are, is essentially the HEAD of the party they are in. If Bernie becomes President, he is essentially the head of the Democratic Party. I'd like to know he actually wants to advance the party.

One thing I've learned over the years is that party infrastructure freakin' MATTERS.

[frylock]

198. I think Sanders is more concerned with advancing the quality of people's lives..

and that should be the focus.

[Adrahil]

202. That's a really naive point of view....

... that ignores how politics happen in this country. Party organization MATTERS. It wins elections. You can't do shit to advance the quality of peoples' lives if you don't win elections. The Democratic party is how we multiply our strength to defeat the bastards trying to turn this nation into a plutocracy.

That's why I have worked hard, and donated as much as I can.... to advance the democratic party and defeat those bastards. This party is not perfect, for sure. But we don't have a perfect political system, and we have to work with what we DO have. AFAIC, Bernie needs to at least embrace joining the party, if he expects the party to do it's level best for him, should he get the nomination.

He kind of reminds me of the kid who considers himself too cool to hang with the nerds, but but then wants to be president of the D&D club.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with him on many issues, but I would like him to take his finger out of my eye before asking for my vote.

[SMC22307]

259. How often has Obama proudly stated that he's a Democrat...

except at the two national conventions?

Couldn't care less if Berne "identifies" (really starting to hate that whole concept) as I or D. His policies align with those of the true Democratic Party, not the harmful thirdway.org wing of the Democratic Party.

[Raine1967]

20. This is from February, and I fundamentally disagree:

Obama is constantly asking people to call their Congresscritters.

Obama is the President. If Sanders really expects to be a president of the grassroots, well… that is a bit unrealistic, IMO.

[JI7]

26. hmm wonder what the point is in posting it now

[nashville_brook]

24. recall that when the administration had massive Dem majorities

the organizing assets that the Obama campaign had accrued became a battering ram against gay activists and anyone pushing for reform via those majorities. thankfully, gay activists didn't give up and today we have some significant progress in these areas.

activists were told they had to wait, wait, wait...it was never a "good" time for gay rights. finally the movement had to proceed without the White House.

i believe that's what we're seeing with BLM -- lack of leadership in Washington means people on the ground in cities across the country have to step up to bring change.

[JoePhilly]

39. Obama got rid of DADT ... changed how the federal governent treated same sex couples ...

... and then ensured that DOMA died a real death (he did not stun it with a temporary exec order).

Obama got the gay activists pretty much everything they wanted. He just did it by playing coy with the right. Made sure he would not lose the election (battle) ...and that's how he won the war.

The idea that these changes occurred without the white house, is nonsense.

Oh ...and we never had "massive" majorities. We had a slim 60 vote majority in the Senate, for about 60 days.

[Fawke Em]

51. I think the problem is that while Obama has been fantastic on social issues,

he still never pulled away from the Wall Street-favoring policies that have hurt so many working Americans.

One only needs to look at his economic advisers to see that.

Granted, no one is perfect, but the least he could have done is to install some economic and fiscal advisers that weren't from the revolving-door-to-Wall-Street crowd.

[Maedhros]

182. That's a good read of the situation.

Last edited Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:35 PM - Edit history (1)

After Ferguson, the Justice Department should have been all over the Sandra Bland situation - yet, no official action.

Over and over and over, when there is egregious racial injustice this Justice Department has sat on its hands.

ON EDIT: Apparently the FBI is investigating the Bland situation, so I apologize for missing that.

[nashville_brook]

191. it's infuriating. and it's sad to see such misplaced animus

pressure needs to be applied to the current administration. there's a lot of work that can be done right now to stop the killing.

i went to a "white house briefing" a few weeks ago. we heard from some staffers about issues we're interested in. police accountability was one of them...and it was disappointing (to say the least) that the update we got was "there's a task force studying this."

come on! we're way past the point where a task force is going to have any impact. it's like saying, "eh, we're just waiting out this term and letting the next president deal with this."

[jwirr]

230. No leadership on the best direction to take in bringing about change.

Why do we not have a proposal for voters rights reform? Why not bill asking for money to provide body cameras.

The only bill I know of in Congress at the minute is Bernie's voters holiday bill. We should all get behind that but won't it be nice to have some more concrete laws we can work for.

It is like there is a vacuum of ideas. We have the protest and a great definition of the problems but no solutions.

[Maedhros]

233. "No leadership" in my opinion pretty much sums up the Obama Administration.[n/t]

[jwirr]

235. He is using the Justice Department to work with cities like Ferguson MO

but there must be more that can be done?

[MelungeonWoman]

25. This was from when he was considering a run for the Presidency

The overwhelming support he received convinced him to make a go of it. Thanks so much for reposting it.

[retrowire]

30. Bernie compliments Obama all the time, he gives one critique annnd....

Bernie compliments Obama all the time, he gives one critique of something Obama did (Obama isn't perfect so, it's a fair critique) and all of a sudden Bernie's campaign is screwed because he "attacked" Obama?

You're all being a bit too dramatic about this. That or you're REALLY hoping this ruins his chances.

Good luck with your resistance. I believe in this revolution.

[jalan48]

33. Somewhere along the line the "Hope and Change" got lost.

[Adrahil]

57. Yeah, nothing has changed. Oh wait. It has.

Did Obama acheive all we wanted and hoped for? Nope. But he has moved the ball in th eright direction. He accomplished a great dea of historical import.

[jalan48]

65. I agree he's done and tried to do a lot.

He is more conservative than I thought he would be as evidenced by his stand on trade agreement and single payer. He's even referred to himself as an 80's moderate Republican. I just thought after Bush he would be more liberal. I will say he, Michelle and their daughters are the best First Family I can remember since Kennedy. I wish Michelle was running for President-it would be easy to vote for her, she seems like a very straight up person.

[ibegurpard]

81. Oh yeah

He pushed through Republican Healthcare ideas. He put acorporate education "reformer" who pushes charter schools in charge of education. He fought his own party on corporate backed trade policy. He doubled down on the surveillance state and cracked down on whistleblowers. He's been real swell.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

37. TY!

I wish more people would state that clearly.

I remember the DU meme going around was that Obama never said he was a progressive, and stop waiting for my rainbow and free ponies, or some bullshit like that.

[GitRDun]

44. Ugh, another unforced error.

First, it's factually not true. People were energized. They did come out big in 2008 & 2012. It's not the President's fault 2010 & 2014 were disasters. He talked about people needing to get the vote out a lot. You can't pass laws without the numbers in Congress...Bernie knows better.

Second, it makes no sense politically. Barack Obama is popular. He has the support of many Democratic constituencies where BS is trying to make inroads.

He could have made all the same statements without mentioning the President and it would've been fine.

Bernie's got a lot going for him, but he better get up to speed fast on how to properly run for President, or he'll get left in the dust.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

47. People were thirsty for change in 2008, 2012 and are still...

Obama had the right ideas and people followed him for change. However, he was stifled by 'Washington' and all the oligarchs and other nasties. People are following Bernie because they are still looking for change. Main street vs. Wall Street, saving the environment, healthcare is a right etc. Obama has actually done a lot during his presidency but he needs someone to carry the torch.

[PowerToThePeople]

52. I see you have 3rd way DU up in arms here

Don't worry, they were not going to vote for Bernie anyway.

[JackInGreen]

61. I wonder

If we're going to get any "Bernie was critical of Obama so I'm voting for Hillary now" messages?

[Mnpaul]

216. I already saw something like that

"Bernie's supporters were critical of Obama so I'm voting for Hillary now"

[ibegurpard]

82. nope

[treestar]

199. But they did vote for Obama

and we are told Bernie can beat Hillary like Obama did.

[PowerToThePeople]

201. I do not think they all voted Obama in the primary

Seems like a pretty difficult statement to back up.

[Peacetrain]

59. As a life long member of the Democratic Party..

that doesn't work for me..........

[RichVRichV]

64. Everything is an attack to certain people.

I look at it as valid criticism. I felt early on that once elected president Obama squandered the massive grass roots movement he had. He could have accomplished much more by using the bully pulpit and organizing the people that got him elected to put concerted pressure on congress. It's a shame he hasn't used the bully pulpit more than he has, he's a wonderful speaker and very good at rallying people. He always seems to prefer to work behind the scenes with little fan fare. It's very noble and I respect him immensely for that (it's how I would choose to do things), but it's not always optimal for influencing politics.

[azmom]

67. I remember Bohner attacking Obama for

Using populist rhetoric. It wasn't acceptable back in 09. I think that's why Obama backed off from using his coalition to pressure congress.

[ibegurpard]

84. No he backed off it because he never believed it

Look what he's fought hardest for. That's your answer.

[still_one]

88. Let's see if whoever the Democrat is becomes President, exactly what they will accomplish if

they don't have a Democratic majority in Congress, or at least in the Senate, and let's not forget the blue dog Democrats either, because the President has to work with them or nothing will get done.

Yes, I know the ACA should have been single payer, but the reality was we didn't have the votes, and only a short window to get it passed, and we need d the blue dogs who were not going to go for single payer, a public option, or Medicare for all

I doubt very much that many presidents can accomplish as much as Obama under the most adverse conditions, and it is nothing short of amazing these last two year

[ibegurpard]

100. Yeah fighting his own party on TPP was terrific!

Really loved that one...

[still_one]

146. Not everything is good, but not everything is bad either. I take the presidency as a whole, and

there have been far more good accomplishments in the Obama administration than bad ones. I agree with you on the TPP, but I believe there are more good things than bad that he has accomplished.

It should be noted that even though fast track was passed, the TPP still can be defeated. No question it is an uphill battle, but if we can get all of the Democrats in the Senate, and the few republicans, against it, it can be defeated, though it is not likely unless there is enough pressure applied from the constituents

[redstateblues]

112. But but but what about the bully pulpit and republicans

Magically embracing socialism. Obama has done a good job considering that the base of our party decided to go to the movies instead of the polls

[tavalon]

89. I heard a phrase recently that resonates with this

Sanders is the liberal we thought Obama was......

[redstateblues]

104. Yes. Bernie will take to the bully pulpit and usher in

A Socialist Utopia. When he speaks all Republican obstructionism will magically cease. I want to hear a plan from one of our candidates about winning back the House and Senate. Without that the rest is a pipe dream.

[Maedhros]

183. If Bernie is the nominee, he will have huge coat tails.

He's building a movement - just look at the crowds he's pulling in! That enthusiasm will carry forward to the Congressional elections as well.

[truebluegreen]

113. Ain't that the truth.

Assuming he was ever really in touch.

[gordianot]

123. Obama had the worst obstruction ever experienced by any President.

That being said his central thesis of "one America" is flawed. America is a shattered mess not of Obama's direct actions and we know compromise does not work and is not possible with mad men and women. Here is hoping Sanders can take the bully pulpit and explain what is happening what needs to be done. If Bernie Sanders makes it be prepared for a kick back like we have ever experienced. The oligarchs are not ready to turn over keys. If not Sanders there are others waiting if we survive a Republican President in 2020. I trust Hillary only not to be a Republican.

Yes, Obama could have done things differently, too late now. Bernie needs to be true and protect his message.

[redstateblues]

167. Its gonna take a lot more than the bully pulpit

How about a plan to take back the Congress and the state Houses and Senates? The reason we are in this mess is because our complacency allowed the Rs to control all that

[gordianot]

169. Exactly

Sanders may actually get what he wants then what is he going to do?

[Maedhros]

186. Use the groundswell of support he's building, rather than squander it like Obama did? [n/t]

[Maedhros]

185. Exactly!

Sanders is shaking people out of their complacency. I see story after story about non-voters being energized by his campaign. Young people are turning out in large numbers to see him speak.

This will only get bigger as the campaign goes forward.

[Unknown Beatle]

129. But he noted that Republicans took control of the Senate in the last election by linking Democratic

candidates to that agenda.

I'm not going against what you're saying, Mr. Sanders, but the republicans took control of the senate by stealing the vote through various means, not least of all by electronic voting machines.

[PatrickforO]

150. Not putting single payer on the table in 2009 was a part of this 'lost touch,'

as was jamming the TPP down our throats without even letting the American people see it.

Yes, the pot IS boiling. People are groaning under the weight of these billionaire parasites.

[frazzled]

152. He's clearly never heard of OFA

Which is still very active in pushing issue advocacy on topics from gun control to women's health.

I have attended live issue events and meetings, receive emails several times a week for the past 6 1/2 years, participated in many live phone calls with President Obama--who talks to members all over the nation and answers question--and because I live near the organization's Community Organizing Institute, have attended lectures, films, and other issue-oriented events.

So, wrong.

(I'd write more but am on a phone and can't hack it.)

[bigdarryl]

157. Not cool going after the President Sanders

[LannyDeVaney]

168. Well,

we've already seen Sanders supporters agree with Republican messages about Mrs. Clinton. And now they agree with going after President Obama.

[Maedhros]

187. Oh, for fuck's sake that's a stupid thing to post.

/ignore your bullshit.

[NCTraveler]

173. Liberty U, a place to search for support.

And Obama has lost touch.

Excellent efforts at turning the economy around with complete opposition from republicans.
Millions more with access to healthcare. Including government subsidized healthcare.
Staunch advocate at the highest level for lgbqt rights.
Supported and signed Dodd-Frank
De-escalated the war in Iraq.
Gave GM the chance to stay in business, saving countless jobs. That is to the tune of over 60 billion more than the shrub gave them. In 2011 the big three all gained market share.
Removed banks from student loans and expanded Pell Grants.
Boosted fuel efficiency standards.
Helped increase EPA regulations.
Signed Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
Signed the fair sentencing act.

The list just goes on an on. Obama hasn't lost touch with them, most are still his biggest advocates. Don't conflate Sanders movement with Obama's. They aren't the same.

[Romulox]

174. I don't think Obama really led a Grass Roots movement. He represents the Democratic Establishment.

[FloridaBlues]

176. Bernie I wouldn't piss off too many Obama supporters.

If sanders thinks that he can change every thing wrong with our political system he is living in socialist la la land.
Just magically everyone in congress will go along with all his wishes!

[emulatorloo]

180. This is an old article from February. Don't know why it was posted now.

[Fred Sanders]

194. 6 month article posted without attribution to the date......not nice.

[treestar]

200. this ^^^^^^^^

Exactly what President Obama went through. And the funny thing is, there's another thread celebrating how Bernie does not associate with other Senators! Yeah right, that's going to work.

[Doctor_J]

196. He sure lost touch with this grass root

That's why I wont be voting for any more corporatists, ever. I'm old enough that I don't have to cast a vote that requires a shower afterward. If Bill Clinton wants to pose for a picture with Bush, and tell Paul Ryan that he'll help him get Medicare cuts, and his wife wants to declare that marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman, she can do without my vote.

[treestar]

197. No he did not

If someone is running as a Democrat, they should not be putting down the Democratic President. Stupid. Will lose you the nomination you were already losing.

[Historic NY]

205. Really then Bernie isn't paying attention.....

OFA is still going strong

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/18/obama-for-america-to-morph-into-organizing-for-action/

https://www.barackobama.com/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

238. Like her

"Have you never heard of someone "looking Jewish" in appearance?

Like her:




Since Judaism is a matrilineal religion by Jewish law Ms. Kravitz is Jewish. Her mother Lisa Bonet is Jewish. So is her maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather.

Most folks would say she's black...This is the peril of these conversations... I would just add she is a beautiful young woman.

[guillaumeb]

253. A question:

When Sanders said:
Sanders acknowledged that Obama has actively used social media to maintain ties with young voters, and he said most Americans support much of the president's agenda. But he noted that Republicans took control of the Senate in the last election by linking Democratic candidates to that agenda.

Voter turnout in the 2014 election was 36%. A record low. Whenever there is such a low turnout, the GOP benefits because their base of angry, confused, old white people DOES come out to vote.

Could better Democratic candidates and a better, distinct message allow the Democrats to inspire a higher turnout? I believe so.

[KittyWampus]

257. Laughing at Sanders' gaffe. He'll want Obama's list

of grassroot supporters if, by some miracle, he was nominated.