If you don't know why Hillary isn't going to Liberty University, then you forgot the 90's.

[RandySF]

Falwell's newspaper, National Liberty Journal, is mailed to just about every church in the nation, free of charge. The paper overflows with praise for President Bush and allies, while claiming a national conspiracy exists against true conservatives.

A typical issue is represented by the one with a full-page ad promoting the book by Michael Kellet claiming to uncover the truth about the death of Vince Foster. The ad asks the question to be dealt with in the book, "Was Hillary involved?"

Another issue of the Journal has editor J. M. Smith's book review of the book Red Dragon Rising. The book claims to document the relationship between Bill Clinton and communists. The article states that the legacy of Billy Clinton will be his betrayal of the sacred trust of the American people by harming the national security of the nation.

Another issue offers several other options on the Clinton presidency. The Secret Life of Bill Clinton is supposed to expose his crimes, while book Boy Clinton has "facts uncovered never revealed before."


http://www.ethicsdaily.com/the-clinton-family-according-to-jerry-falwell-cms-9389

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. A president to be would speak there

regardless of all this nonsense.

[RandySF]

3. They didn't accuse Bernie of First-Degree murder of Vince Foster.

Jerry Falwell SLANDERED Hilary on a weekend basis. I wish you Sanders people would just set aside your mania long enough to understand what a snake pit LU is.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. What is this 'you Sanders people?' You are sounding like Romney's wife

Look, if Obama could blow everything off so can Hillary. Time has passed and not many people know who VF was.

[JackInGreen]

19. I encourage us as liberals

To be unafraid to walk into a snake pit and show them a better example. Shouldn't we?

[SMC22307]

25. C'mon, Bill kissed and made up with Richard Mellon Scaife.

He's even best buds with the Bushes. Surely Hillary can move on too!

[Paka]

44. And they have been nice to Bernie????

[msongs]

7. remind me again what date did obama speak there? nt

[Adrahil]

9. Horseshit.

I think it's fine that Bernie is speaking there, but seriously, FUCK Liberty "University."

[pnwmom]

40. If Hillary were speaking there instead of Bernie, you'd say she was despicable.

Everything is just fine as long as he's doing it.

[Live and Learn]

41. As a Bernie supporter, I don't think Bernie should be questioned for speaking there, nor Hillary for

choosing not to. Leave it up to the candidates. They have their own valid reasons for their choices on where to speak and when.

[treestar]

50. lol a President to be would not snub Kissinger either

yet that was expected of Hillary

[virtualobserver]

2. no one expected her to do that

but no reason for Bernie to stay away. young minds need to be persuaded

[RandySF]

4. You won't persuade anyone there.

They don't even have geology classes because they couldn't find any professors who believed the earth was 6,000 years old.

[winter is coming]

6. Then that's Bernie's lost time, not yours.

I don't really care that HRC declined an invitation to speak there, or that Bernie accepted one, and I'm not sure why you're so invested in this.

[virtualobserver]

8. you haven't spent much time around young people in conservative churches

nuff said

[RandySF]

10. I was one of them.

I grew up in Fundie Hell getting dragged into right wing churches every Sunday and Wednesday. I remember the Liberty zombies I had to hang around when they came back every summer to regurgitate the crap that the Falwells pounded into their brains. And after spending the 90's listening to Falwell attack the Clintons on a personal level day in and day out, I hold a special contempt in my heart for that diploma mill. And now that Bernie, for understandable reasons, is going, that house of zombies is suddenly "ok" in the minds of his supporters.

[virtualobserver]

11. and yet here you are and so am I

and those kids should not be abandoned, they need to hear a different voice
Some of them are questioning things in their heart already and need a little push.

[dreamnightwind]

48. +1

I was raised that way myself, didn't find my own feet until college.

I see no need for Hillary to speak there unless she chooses to. And with her history of mixing faith and politics I'm not sure I would like it if she did.

I think Bernie is uniquely skilled at reaching people in a non-partisan truthful approach that can deprogram lies and wrongly held misinformation. It certainly won't hurt for him to try, and there is zero danger of Bernie going in there and reinforcing any of their wrongful fundie beliefs. Sometimes you don't get completely through to a person but you plant a seed that finds its time to grow. Go Bernie!

[treestar]

52. not really

what do you mean? I haven't spent time in those churches either, so it seems logical to me that the people in them are conservative.

[virtualobserver]

55. it is logical to assume that, but what most people don't.....

think about is the fact that these are kids, and they haven't thought this stuff through. Re-framing issues can transform their thinking....and it can get them thinking for the first time.

Unlike older conservatives who have cemented their beliefs, pointing out to a young person that they hold two incompatible beliefs can sometimes unravel their entire belief system. Some of them already feel uncomfortable, but don't know why.
The words of Jesus are themselves totally incompatible with right wing ideology and it is easy to point out the inconsistency because it is so glaring....but you can't do it with an attitude.....you have to stress the rightness of the new thinking, not the wrongness of what they have been led to believe.

Some kids have thought about this stuff and tried to start a Young Democrats chapter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-roose/liberty-university-democr_b_207361.html

they failed but we should not abandon those kids who are trapped in the bubble.
also, even if you don't win even one more state, winning a presidential election with 58% instead of 52% gives you a far more powerful mandate. That is why I want Democrats to fight for every vote.

[treestar]

56. You're right

That's a good point. And a good view to have. I don't like being as hopeless As I sounded there and don't think we getter liberals by isolating ourselves from those who aren't

[BainsBane]

12. Liberty University are now allies

and Black Lives Matter activists enemies. That itself says it all.

I am glad she turned down an invitation to meet with those right-wing bigots. They work to undermine the rights of the majority of Democrats--who are in fact women, people of color, and LGBT--at every opportunity. That university trains lawyers for the explicit purpose of stripping us of our civil and human rights. There is no reason to go there for votes. They will never support Hillary or any member of the Democratic Party because they live and breath hatred for the non-white male majority. WE ARE THE PEOPLE of this nation. We are oppressed not only by capital but also those in the white male middle-class and upper-middle minority who care about their own interests and no one else's, who are systematically working to silence our rights to speak, to vote, to control over our bodies, to love and to live, and to think independently.

[virtualobserver]

13. the students there are just people

young religious conservatives can be turned around....I know this because I have turned a few.....

[BainsBane]

20. Not turned around, brought on board

They won't be turned around. They don't need to be. All they need to do is join in with a movement of like-minded folks who think of themselves as "progressives" but in reality aggressively pursue the rights of the white minority and treat with contempt even the most basic rights to human life of anyone but themselves. That much has been clear in the wake of Seattle.

While at first blush there might seem to be an irony between the angst about the Democratic party being too "Republican" and actively working to recruit Republican voters, but then when one realizes those complaints are really about the party's failing to privilege men and the white upper-middle and middle class above the subaltern, it all starts to make sense. When they talk about taking America "back," they mean it, back to when the structural inequality that the American capitalist state is built around still benefited them over the majority. After his supporters have systematically thrown away votes of traditional Democratic constituencies, Sanders has to look to the right. They've already worked to exclude and alienate key Democratic constituencies. No wonder they are working so feverishly to open up Democratic primaries across the country to Republican voters.

[virtualobserver]

23. thank you for that judgmental rant

[John Poet]

38. Whew, talk about 'feverish' ! eom

[DemocraticWing]

14. Who said Liberty was an ally?

Bernie is clearly willing to go speak in unpopular venues. The man has been wanting to debate Republicans before the primary is even over. If you really think he has any belief in common with the bigots that run Liberty, then I'm not sure where you're getting it.

Liberty is a homophobic, awful group of people. I wish they didn't exist. But I know, from his actions, statements, everything that Bernie loves LGBTQ people and would do anything to stand up for our rights. I called his office before the Equality Act was introduced and the staffer who answered it said they hadn't seen the bill but was sure he'd cosponsor it because "it sounds like something he would definitely be behind," and he did. I hate the implication that he doesn't, it actually makes me a bit sick to the stomach.

[ibegurpard]

15. She did

Just more hyperbole from her.

[DemocraticWing]

16. I like BainsBane. She's a good poster.

But I really disagree with that post, a lot.

EDIT: I should clarify I disagree with the stuff about Bernie. The rest of it I agree with.

[frylock]

17. More conservative binary type thinking

[artislife]

34. Great

.....

[SonderWoman]

18. Good for Hillary.

[Raine1967]

21. Anyone running for the Democratic party nomination should not

speak there. That is my opinion. If Sanders gets the nomination, then I would appreciate his giving a speech there, until then, I do not.

his speaking there gives legitimacy to a right wing fundamental college.

It gives legitimacy to to the right wing fanaticals that are currently trying to overtake this nation.

[daleanime]

30. Are they Americans?

[NCjack]

22. What's the point of speaking there? The students are there to have rebars

driven thru their brains before being casted in concrete. That will complete their "willfully ignorant" objective. The DEM candidates will get nothing from it. Why help Liberty U gain the appearance of being "open minded?.

[artislife]

36. Do you believe in change

Or are people incapable after a certain age?

I suggest you look up the story behind the song Amazing Grace. Or walk in an AA meeting, or watch countries through off the oppressive governments that have held them down, or ask a woman why after this beating she finally left....

[NCjack]

57. I believe in:

Return-on-Investment. Before Bernie arrives, the students will have been lectured on how to be respective to the "agent of Satan." While he speaks, their minds will chant "la-la-la-la-la." Maybe Bernie will pickup a couple for the 2020 election. His investment of time and resources would pay a huge return if he would continue what he is doing now -- public speeches. If he would speak in Sanford, NC, in the civic auditorium where is essentially unheard of, he would pickup more in 1 hour than he will ever get from speeches at all the religious "universities."

[treestar]

51. THIS ^^^^^^^^

Goodness, no one there is going to be convinced to be more liberal by this speech. I wonder if they will even behave all that well.

[redstateblues]

24. If it was good for Ted Cruz and Jeb! Bush

[SMC22307]

26. And Ted Kennedy! (n/t)

[virtualobserver]

27. yeah but Ted endorsed Obama over Hillary

so he's probably El Diablo too

[Douglas Carpenter]

28. Ted Kennedy addresses Liberty University to rapturous welcome

[daleanime]

29. So where is she talking to people?

Well, beyond selected handfuls.

And remember, it's OK to disagree with me. I'm fairly sure that I'm going to disagree with you, but you might surprise me.

[virtualobserver]

32. she is on a listening tour, and money is speech

so she is listening to handfuls of money

[artislife]

37. Hillary likes to talk to lots of White men

?quality=65&strip=color&w=1100

[virtualobserver]

49. Brilliant!

You never know who they've been with, and they always expect you to be "nice" to them.

[SMC22307]

31. It would show political courage on her part...

Last edited Fri Aug 14, 2015, 01:56 AM - Edit history (1)

and offer up a refreshing departure from the slick, sanitized campaign she is running.

[riversedge]

46. I do not think she has been invited has she?

[Dawson Leery]

33. kick

[Zorra]

35. Seems like Hillary's not going anywhere. nt

[ericson00]

39. if this site had been around 20 years ago, Clinton Chronicles would be a popular

item on Daily Kos, and among Clinton-haters here (tho less overall people than Daily Kos)

[jwirr]

42. And since Lib U is so anti-woman I doubt they would invite her.

[Prism]

43. Obama went to Saddleback

And then invited its leader to speak at his inauguration.

I'm sorry, but I can't take this Liberty University grousing seriously.

Like, at all.

[SMC22307]

45. "It was only the invocation!"

Ah, good times.

[RandySF]

47. I was actually pissed that he was at the inauguration.

[NCTraveler]

53. Hillay shouldn't be there.

Sanders and his supporters have made it very clear over time that his message resonates with certain aspects of those favoring isolationism and libertarianism. I see nothing wrong with him courting them. It has brought a certain element into his fold that will be hard to control. The element that yells "taze her" at a black woman taking part in a protest. It's really a double edged sword for Sanders. What he is doing is growing his numbers at an impressive rate. He cannot do so by simply courting what we normally view as mainstream democrats. He is going outside the fold. Many ops have told stories of how Paul supporters are impressed by him. That is Liberty U.

He isn't going there to change their minds. He is courting them. His economic message resonates with many normally considered to be the right. Take certain aspects of his social ideology out, and they are very close to like minded, often for different reasons. He will leave the event with more support than he showed up with. Isn't that the point of an election.

[CanadaexPat]

54. I'm looking forward to re-fighting 90's battles.