Bernie won't go to the Capitol gym.

[Cleita]

Reported on a radio show today. This is where many of the deals between the senators are made. Instead Bernie has coffee in the basement with the interns and clerical staff. He prefers their company instead.

edited to correct an error.

[NCTraveler]

1. This doesn't sound all that flattering to Sanders.

I thought TH was a big supporter of his.

[Cleita]

3. Sorry it wasn't TH but Stephanie Miller.

Gotta correct my OP. But why is it not flattering to Sanders to prefer the comoany of commoners to the millionaires club?

[NCTraveler]

4. Because, he is suppose to be working on their behalf.

According to your own op, he happily removes himself from the deal making process in order to have lunch with people who have zero clout in Washington. Please read the way you presented this. He is avoiding the gym because that is where deals are made, in order to have lunch with people with no clout in Washington. He is suppose to be their voice. If he goes to the gym an lobbies on their behalf instead of eating lunch with them, does he think he will forget who he is fighting for? I see no sense in how this is a positive for him. Sounds like a hit piece making him look weak. I was pretty confident TH wouldn't have said this.

[arcane1]

5. You're going to pull a muscle with that kind of extreme stretching.

In case you haven't been paying attention for the past 40 years, most of that "deal-making" is on behalf of corporations and their paid lobbyists.

[NCTraveler]

7. I one hundred percent agree about who is making the deals.

It is also now being promoted, by this op, that Sanders purposefully removes his voice from the deals. No stretching necessary. It's word for word in the op.

[Armstead]

32. I think it's about he he spends free time...I'm sure he talks to his collegues regularly

[NCTraveler]

36. I agree.

I think the part about deals has never been said by anyone but Miller. He doesn't go to the gym, the rest was added off the cuff without much thought.

I would have said "there goes good old Sanders" if this was about who he has lunch with. It would make sense. The additional opinion is simply foolish.

[Armstead]

46. Neh, to be honest, I dont care about it one way or the other

I think it just has to do with what he chooses to do when he's got a few spare minutes.

[NCTraveler]

51. He spends his time eating with the best Washington has to offer. nt.

[sabrina 1]

167. 'Deals are made'. Why would you think he should participate in that? It shows he lives by

what he says. He doesn't make monetary deals so what should he do, go to the gym and try to stop the flow of money there, or do what he is doing to try to stop it?

It's LEGAL so how would he interfere when a deal is being made in the Gym, jump up and down and yell at them? 'Don't take that, don't take that, it's a bribe'? How would that influence anyone?

Imagine if all Democrats refused the invitations to make deals in the Gym? Then used it against Republicans in elections?

But Dems can't use it if they attend these deal-making sessions.

Bernie otoh, CAN because he doesn't attend them leaving him free to RUN on the issue of money in politics.

[Cleita]

6. Many of us find that admirable. He does make deals in

the committees he's in and on the Capitol. He doesn't do back room deals in the gym, bars and restaurants and that's how it should be.

[NCTraveler]

8. While they are making those deals, Sanders won't even represent.

"He doesn't do back room deals in the gym, bars and restaurants and that's how it should be."

They are being done with or without him. According to your op, they are being done without him. I know I would rather have him working on the backroom deals instead of letting us get railroaded. I simply don't get how you see this as flattering.

I have a feeling O'Malley wouldn't just go to the gym to negotiate, he would upstage everyone in there in every way. Not being a part of a set of negotiations, knowing they are going on, seems very unflattering.

[Cleita]

10. Really? This is why he's so popular among his supporters.

We like that our futures won't be traded away in a backroom before it comes to the floor and we can see it on Cspan. The real railroading is being done in those backroom deals.

[NCTraveler]

12. "This is why he's so popular among his supporters."

Him spending his lunch with people who aren't making decisions, while decisions are being made without him, is why he is so popular among his supporters? I don't think this is accurate in anyway, so you know. I think someone found out the guy doesn't work out and attempted to make a positive of it. Sanders, not taking part in negotiations that are tearing this country apart, because he spends it with people with no pull, isn't as flattering as you might think. I for one respect Sanders. I would be better off if he didn't run from the negotiations tearing us apart. This is directly in your op.

[Cleita]

14. It's why he will win. His deal is with the majority of citizens who will

vote for him.

[NCTraveler]

21. I would be beyond happy to vote for Sanders in the general if he makes it out of the primary.

I think we have both stated our case will and respectably here. Agreement isn't in the cards.

[SonderWoman]

17. One minute he's a "fighter who will use the bully pulpit!"

Now we're celebrating him hiding in a basement avoiding getting anything done.

[Cleita]

20. He's not allowed to get a cup of coffee on a break?

I didn't realize he is being held to those standards.

[NCTraveler]

22. Your op itself made it about a lot more than coffee. nt.

[Cleita]

24. No my OP was very simple and to the point.

Others have decided to spin shit out of it.

[NCTraveler]

29. I agree. And it was about a lot more than coffee.

"This is where many of the deals between the senators are made. Instead Bernie has coffee in the basement "

[erronis]

81. Sure beats Bohner (and others) reaching under their desks for their flasks.

Strange set of arguments you're mounting here. Worried much?

[SonderWoman]

25. Oh was this op about coffee?

Sorry, I thought we were celebrating him avoiding getting anything done.

[frylock]

133. Just put it on ignore.

[Armstead]

38. Jeeze you're obnoxious...

...And some say we Sanders supporters are annoying. Sheesh.

[SonderWoman]

48. Yet you're the one calling people names.

Stay on topic.

[Armstead]

50. "I'm rubber and you're glue....etc."

[SonderWoman]

54. I don't play those games. Have fun playing with yourself.

[Armstead]

65. aw shucks

Occasional levity is allowed ya know...... But I know, more threads, too much snarking to do

[wendylaroux]

90. blechhh..... nt

painful

[tazkcmo]

155. I'm not celebrating.

I'm indifferent. It's a non-issue in my view, especially when compared to real issues. Not being involved in corporate bribery isn't an opportunity loss.

[JDPriestly]

70. We like Bernie precisely because he is not part of the corrupt in-crowd.

We are sick of these slick deals and the business as usual attitude of D.C. that ends up emptying the pockets of ordinary Americans with the money from those pockets mysteriously ending up in the pockets of the politicians we ordinary Americans are tricked into electing.

We want Bernie precisely because he is not a backdoor, backhanded deal maker with the filthy lobbyists and their minions in Congress.

[procon]

44. The legislative process couldn't exist unless 'back room deals' were made.

How do you think the negotiating process works in the halls of government and business? It makes no difference if they are meeting in an impromptu setting like the gym, a kitchen table or a park bench, these informal discussions -- or so called 'back room deals' -- are how adult resolve their differences in private and forge the frameworks of lasting agreements that can then be finalized and approved in formal sessions.

[erronis]

85. Uh, transparency?

Yeah, a lot of crap is negotiated on golf courses, bars, fancy vacations. Sometimes money passes hands.

Your lovely statement "how adult resolve their differences in private and forge the frameworks of lasting agreements that can then be finalized and approved in formal sessions" does not reflect the end products. And the people that supposedly voted for their representatives are being given faits-accomplis. No nice transcript of who did what to whom to make it happen.

[procon]

115. This metaphor about sausage-making holds true;

“If you like laws and sausages, you should never watch either one being made.” The legislative branch still exists, but its capacity for governing has atrophied, but Congress is not without historic precedent. The courts have repeatedly ruled that legislators don’t have to let the public in on their internal decision making processes under the Deliberative Process Privilege as an exemption to public records.

Of course no one likes being denied information they perceive as their inherent right to know, but I can understand the theory behind that exemption, and there is a legitimate argument to be made between the deliberative process privilege and the principle of maximal transparency in government.

[erronis]

123. I may be idealistic but I also understand the realities of sausage making

And here I'll reveal my simplistic nature.

I don't really care if "deals" are made in off-the-net settings. But when they are made I'd like to have all arguments, all participants, all exchanges of money and quid-pro-quo put into the bill.

If any participants are caught without disclosing their friendships, financial transactions, sexual favors, etc. that went into that deal then I think they should lose their positions and be permanently barred from trying so sell to the populace. Well maybe than can sell Encyclopedias and vacuums.

[Cleita]

125. Actually that was said about movies.

This is how it goes:

"If you like movies and hot dogs, never watch one being made."

Making laws are eons away from making movies. You can choose not to pay your money to see a movie. You have no choice in paying your taxes to enable a law that can affect your well being your whole life.

[MADem]

13. Well, he had lunch --or something--with those guys from Lockheed Martin.....

He came to a number of accords with them--he went from excoriating them to doing business with them.

Maybe he would have been better off going to the gym?


I also don't think "My candidate doesn't take exercise!" is a battle cry, that's another way the OP comes across.

[Cleita]

16. No putting words into my OP that aren't there.

I never said he didn't exercise. There are photos of him lifting weights in his home and eye witness reports of him walking to work to the senate and back.

[MADem]

27. I am not putting words into your mouth--aren't you just repeating what you heard on the radio?

The report you are transmitting sounds like the guy would rather fart around chatting with people who aren't even his constitutents rather than cut deals to benefit the people who voted for him while working out (in a shitty little hole of a gym--no windows, crappy machines, not even a full size b-ball court, and a tired old lap pool) in a place where NO lobbyists or hangers-on are allowed. If you're not a present/former member, you're not getting in. It's a rare place where a politician can't get buttonholed--except by other congressmen. There's permission to speak freely in that environment--goodness knows politicians don't speak TO one another enough--they speak AT one another.

It doesn't come off "refreshing" and "honest" to me. It comes off more like time-wasting and indolent. A missed opportunity, at best.

Maybe it's something else entirely....but the sale wasn't made.

[Cleita]

35. So time-wasting and indolent now?

I guess spending hours in the gym doing god knows what, oh we did know there was some texting of private parts at one time, or spending a coffee break talking to the hoi polloi peasants in the basement is a waste of time and indolence according to your carefully constructed straw man, I don't know if Jesus Christ ran against Hillary if he'd be perfect enough.

[Armstead]

39. We have a new meme! "Sanders is lazy and indolent!"

Expect to see that one proliferated soon

[MADem]

63. You're laughing at your own communication skills, you know.

I didn't pull that impression out of thin air--you were the one who painted the picture in YOUR OP!

So....




Not that it's anything to laugh about, really.

[Cleita]

66. Frankly, my communications skills do need work. I'm neither a college graduate nor an English

or political science major. My communications skills consist of trying to make this a better world, not trolling the internet to bring down everyone who disagrees with me.

[MADem]

82. Now you're just expressing pique. Your OP isn't getting universal acclaim, because it sounds,

quite simply, like the person you are quoting was trying to respond to a charge that "Bernie doesn't exercise," and was spinning a whole load of hoo-ha to try and "justify" that.

In the attempt to give him an "Everyman" patina, instead, he is made to look (falsely, I suspect) like someone who goes down to the coffee shop and talks to the "little people" about his legislative priorities.

And we're supposed to think that's cool? There's nothing wrong with being kind to people, but that picture your OP paints is not flattering.

And, FWIW, I don't believe it. I think Sanders buys his coffee in the Russell SOB basement, and he's pleasant to the other patrons there--and that's it.

[Cleita]

87. This is getting too silly for me. eom

[KoKo]

57. You object that he eats with the people who work for him?

saying it makes him come off as "time-wasting and indolent?"

If you are that upset to trash a Bernie post it sounds like maybe Hillary is really having some problems that are getting her supporters in a frenzy.

What a mean spirited post.

[MADem]

69. Where does the OP say that? It says he drinks coffee in the basement with generic "interns" and

"clerical staff." Unless he's hiding in a utility closet, that would probably be at the coffee shop in the Russell SOB basement.

It doesn't say he marches down there with HIS staff for a coffee klatsch.

This post, which was lifted from a radio report, isn't coming off the way the teller wanted it to come off.

That's not my fault. I didn't tell the tale.

There's nothing mean-spirited about being honest about what something SOUNDS like. There is something hyper-sensitive and defensive about trying to tag me with that label, though. Nice trick, to blame me for a story I didn't write, tell, or repeat--all I did was read it and give my honest take on it. You don't like my opinion? You can make me disappear with a click of your ignore button. SMH! And right back atcha!



And, FWIW, I don't believe a bit of it. I don't believe Sanders spends his days seeking counsel from typists and interns. He may be pleasant to them when he goes down there for a cup of coffee, but I don't think he's discussing legislative priorities with them. "How are you today?" is a long way from "Did you see the markup on that bill I submitted last month?"

He would be better off trying to count a few votes in the damn gym than asking the office workers and interns for legislative advice.

[AgingAmerican]

23. He doesn't sell out

He doesn't make deals with lobbyists. He isn't for sale. This makes him look strong.

[MADem]

28. Lobbyists are not allowed in the Congressional gym. Not even STAFFERS can get in there. nt

[AgingAmerican]

55. Another mindless non issue

nt

[MADem]

74. If you are referencing the premise of this OP, you're correct.

Likely, the only real truths in this entire mess are this:

Bernie Sanders doesn't go to the gym.

Bernie Sanders buys coffee at the Russell SOB coffee shop (or maybe the caf--they are both in the basement).

Clerical staff and interns frequent those affordable basement establishments as well.

[Action_Patrol]

83. The cafeteria is certainly cheaper than Cups and Company

[MADem]

88. That's like the "Whole Foods" of delis! nt

[Action_Patrol]

92. No kidding. The owner must be second only to maybe

The owner of The Monacle restaurant in someone that has massive catalogs of closet skeletons due to the contracts they've pulled off with the Senate.

[MADem]

96. +1! nt

[NCTraveler]

31. We are discussing his colleagues making deals. Not lobbyists. nt.

[Cleita]

64. You mean like the Caucus Room deal?

No lobbyists there. Just Republican peers from Congress discussing how they were going to obstruct and make President Obama a one term President while the inaugural balls were going on after he was sworn in for his first term. Yeah, that's sooo cool and above board.

[NCTraveler]

67. What does that have to do with him refusing to negotiate with congressman in the gym?

Please read the op.

[Cleita]

71. Everything. I said gym, but there are all those other places he won't make deals at either

other than in committee or in the Senate. He doesn't do cocktail parties, restaurants bars, etc.. You ever wonder how some of these bills suddenly arise out of Zeus's head like Athena, fully grown, before they are put before Congress? I'm tired of half cooked ideas, given form, and presented fully developed before there is debate. Debate has become a formality and it sucks IMHO.

[Roland99]

61. You're reading it wrong. Try it this way >>>

This will bring those wanting to make a deal to HIM

[JDPriestly]

68. The "deals" that are made behind the scenes in the lunchrooms and in the backrooms are

not made for the benefit of the American people.

In fact, we should have a federal open meetings law that would require members of Congress to have open meetings with each other so that we the people can know what they say and do behind closed doors.

The secrecy of these deals has encouraged a lot of corruption that is not in the interest of the American people.

We don't want that secret deal-making. We want open government. We want to know what our members of Congress do and agree to.

Open the doors of Congress to the people.

What happens should happen in public.

[A Simple Game]

102. Do you work for someone's behalf by spending all of your time within

a small group of 100 people or do you have a better ability to represent common people when you actually mingle with them and talk about their everyday problems and desires?

I know the interns and staff are mostly not from Vermont but most people of the same class have similar problems and desires.

Bernie never struck me as the jock type anyway. That and I would bet my last dollar they let the Republican Senators into that gym... ughhh... I get goose bumps and shivers just thinking about smelling Republican sweat.

[MADem]

30. It cost two hundred and fifty bucks or so a YEAR to join that lousy gym--and it is a LOUSY gym.

It's not fancy, it is in a windowless basement. Treadmills, weights, assorted machines like that, a kid-sized bball court and a lap pool. That's it.

The greenest, poorest Congressman's membership is the same price as the most wealthy one's.

What it is, is PRIVATE. It is a place for legislators to speak WITH one another (while exercising) and not having the corroding influence of lobbyists or hangers on--who can't get in.

Even STAFF can't get in. He misses an opportunity if he doesn't pop in every now and again.

[NCTraveler]

33. I really don't get it.

This seems to be a hit piece on him. Yet I know that wasn't the original sentiment.

[MADem]

49. I don't get it either. The idea that he hangs around smoking and joking with interns and low-level

staffers is NOT a plus. Frankly, I don't think he does that, either. He might have had the odd conversation here and there, but I can't picture the guy farting around with a bunch of kids who aren't even his constituents. I think the guy on the radio may have been trying to prosecute a "Man of the People" meme, and instead he came up with Geriatric Ferris Bueller.

And if he DID do that, I'd definitely think he had a priorities problem. There's never enough hours in the day to get everything done on the Hill--there are frantic moments punctuated by periods of extreme boredom. A legislator, a staffer, or even a water-carrying schmuck from another branch of government uses those "boredom" periods to try to catch up on the mountains of paperwork that accumulate, seemingly by themselves.

[Cleita]

58. Who said he was smoking and joking? Now you are just making stuff up.

He's having coffee with them. I have never seen him smoke and seldom jokes actually. Why should he be different in the coffee room? Maybe he wants to know what concerns them, not what the lobbyists are pushing as their favorite new bill to raid the taxpayer's Treasury.

[MADem]

76. You did--you said he was "with" them and "prefers their company."

People who are "with" those whose company they prefer are generally preferring the companionship and conversation. I don't think he preferred their company in a coffee shop for sex or chess matches. People chat (i.e. smoke and joke--let's not be obtusely literal, now--it shows) in those environments.

May I remind you of YOUR words--yours, not mine:

Instead Bernie has coffee in the basement with the interns and clerical staff. He prefers their company instead.

That's very different from saying "He patronizes the coffee shop/cafeteria where a lot of the low level staff and interns go for breaks/lunch."

You are suggesting that he pals around (prefers their company) with these people, not that he patronizes the same place that they do for snacks and hot beverages--if you don't want to create this kind of an impression you should choose your words with greater care.

[Cleita]

37. Maybe he'd rather spend the $250 on charities. eom

[MADem]

43. I think everyone pays for a membership anyway.

They keep the House and Senate gyms open when they have those round the clock legislative sessions, so that Congressmen can go shower between sessions.

My point is, we're not talking about a "millionaire's club." It's more like "three steps above a shithole."

[Cleita]

47. Which proves my point. Why exercise in a shit hole unless there is another reason to go there.

Although it didn't look that bad to me in the background behind Weiner's weenie text photos. I guess some people's shit hole is a nice place to some of us.

[MADem]

62. And the reason to go there is to talk, like humans do, about differences in legislative priorities

while getting in a workout--multi-tasking.

That way, you resolve differences face to face.

Most lawmaking doesn't happen on the floor of the House or Senate. This is probably why Sanders has so few pieces of legislation that have passed and been signed into law. He doesn't work/play well with others.

Not a positive trait. There's only so much of that "Maverick" shit that works. No one gets legislation passed without convincing fellow legislators to vote for it.

I think it's funny, though, that you turn on a dime, from "too fancy" to "not fancy enough."

I thought Weiner took his full monty weenie pic in his and his wife's bedroom...but that was a while ago. The manly man being coy with the towel pictures were taken at the House gym--which looks about like a gym at a Holiday Inn Express, but without any windows.

I said three steps ABOVE a shithole. It's not a place you'd pay big money to join--it is windowless, basic, not a lot of frou-frou. But it's PRIVATE. No paparazzi, no lobbyists, no people clawing and pleading. Just PEERS. A place where people can do a little honest horse trading with their aerobics without being hassled.

Your OP doesn't come off well, sorry. I know you probably expected a different reaction.

That said, I don't believe that Sanders spends a great deal of time yammering with interns and low-level staffers. I just don't. I think he might be kind to them and give them a pleasant minute or two of chit-chat, and that has been conflated into more of a thing than it actually is. I think he's a decent fellow, but I don't think he has time to waste hanging out in the basement with interns.

[Action_Patrol]

75. Different gym

House/Senate

The Senate gym is a bit of a dungeon but it's a simple gym. No more or less.

[MADem]

77. There are two gyms. Bernie is eligible for membership in both, having served

in both Houses. Once you qualify for membership, you can keep it.

[Action_Patrol]

79. I know.

We've talked before. I work in the Senate now after having spent years in the House.

[kenfrequed]

73. This isn't a bad thing

Most of the deals made there are with lobbyists and a lot of stupid arm twisting goes on there.

[MADem]

80. No, that's wrong. No one but legislators are allowed past those gym doors--not even staffers can

get in.

The gyms get their greatest use in the wee small hours of the morning, the lunch crowd, and the after-work set.

[kenfrequed]

86. I prefer him meeting with his staff

And discussing how he is going to help the people he represents over cofffee.

[MADem]

94. That's not what the OP says. It IMPLIES that, but that's not what is happening, I will bet.

And I would bet real money if someone could show me a picture of Sanders' staff marching down to the coffee shop/cafeteria for a "meeting" with their boss.

Not buying it.

[kenfrequed]

99. uh-huh

Because they can't have coffee in his office.

Oh, and wait... his staff kind of does the day to day operations in his office. I kind of think even the most insular republican probably does SOMETHING with their staff on a day to day basis.


Sheesh, are you this committed to trying to "prove" that Bernie is... I don't even know what your point is. That is how far removed your implications are. They don't even say anything at all.

Sorry, but this is getting absurd.

Upthread you were suggesting he was "wasting his time smoking and joking" with his staff rather than meeting other congressmen in the gym and doing work. Could you at least pick one spin and stick to it?

Or do you just go with "whatever makes bernie look the worst"?

[MADem]

109. I am just going to suggest that you re-read the OP--because that's what we are talking about.

We're talking coffee in the BASEMENT, not his office. Reading before snarking will prevent gaffes of that sort.

This IS getting absurd--you're right about that.

If you can't follow the conversation, then just stop.

I've said, consistently, that I don't believe the premise of this thread--I don't think Sanders sits in the basement of a Senate office building taking the pulse of interns and typists who are customers at the coffee shop. That is what the premise of the OP is. It's nonsense.

[kenfrequed]

110. I don't care where he is taking coffee

My gods that is a bunch of nit-picking bull.

Are you even listening to yourself?

I pointed out how you twice tried to spin things with CONTRADICTORY spin and your answer is that I mistook his office for the basement?

Wow. Just wow.

[MADem]

113. If you have a problem with this story about where he takes his coffee, take it up with the OP, not

me.

I think the story is a load of crap, myself. I don't think he goes down to the coffee shop "with" a bunch of interns and clerks, because "he prefers their company."

I think he knows where to get a cheap and good cup of coffee, and I'd not be surprised if he takes it To Go.

So, "Wow. Just Wow" all you want. This entire thread is asinine--and I didn't mistake a thing. Why don't you try re-reading the stuff you're writing, that has nothing to do with the premise of the OP? No one said Jack about his office--until YOU brought that canard into the conversation. YOU. No one else!

Or don't, because "wow" I don't care either way.

[kenfrequed]

119. Two different spins

Again.

I just want to remind you of it in case you forgot that you posted up at least two different versions of why you think Bernie is bad based on this (flawed) story.

[MADem]

121. Nope. You're the one whining about his "office," not me.

You made that up--all by yourself. Nowhere in the OP was his office even mentioned.

[kenfrequed]

126. Should I list your spins again?

Would that help?

I only admit that basement/office was a miss-step on my part. The OP was about Sanders choosing to spend time with his staff having coffee rather than hanging out with other Senators in a gym.


But if it would help you, and anyone else reading this I could point out that you had two seperate negative spins to throw in on this story. Which kind of suggests that you really don't care as much about this except as a way to try to make Bernie look bad.

[MADem]

131. Yeah, go ahead. List 'em.

I don't have a problem with Sanders buying his coffee in the SOB coffee shop--or the cafeteria. The prices are way better and the service is faster.

I also don't care if he goes to the gym or not. I do think he's missing out on an opportunity to help sell legislation that is important to him, but that's his loss. I'm not going to think less of him for not wanting to go exercise robustly, particularly at his age, in public. Not everyone is into that kind of thing.

So see--I'm not trying to "make Bernie look bad." Keep bleating that all you want--it's not true, though.

I do think it's a bit off the mark for his supporters to be so hyper-sensitive that they'll take a "neutral" or a "so what?" comment about a guy not going to the gym and immediate go into Defensive Mode about it, even inventing a story about how he "prefers" to hang out with interns, when they don't know that at all. I think--since just saying shit without proof is cool all of a sudden--that he's probably too busy to keep company with interns and clerks, myself. He should be too busy, if he's doing his job.

[kenfrequed]

135. Soo...

For a story that you think was sort of a time waster and not well written or not worth any time you sure have had a busy afternoon. Here's some highligts of your various bits of spin. Enjoy!




"It doesn't come off "refreshing" and "honest" to me. It comes off more like time-wasting and indolent. A missed opportunity, at best."

Or

"I also don't think "My candidate doesn't take exercise!" is a battle cry, that's another way the OP comes across."

Or

"The report you are transmitting sounds like the guy would rather fart around chatting with people who aren't even his constitutents rather than cut deals to benefit the people who voted for him…"

Or

"I don't get it either. The idea that he hangs around smoking and joking with interns and low-level
staffers is NOT a plus."

[MADem]

142. Sorry--not seeing any "spins" there. Those are opinions based on material provided.

Material which--as it seems--has turned out to be a bit "spun" in the first place.

If anything, those quotes are RESPONSES to "spins" that were put out on the radio, and embellished here in this thread, for reasons that aren't terribly clear in the first place.

Find the WSJ article in this thread, which apparently was the source of these comments. Turns out, Bernie occasionally grabs breakfast in the SOB. We don't know if he uses the carry out window or what. He's not hobnobbing over coffee. That was Ms. Miller's ....errrrr, what's the word? SPIN.

I got some news for you....that spin word?




Enjoy!

[kenfrequed]

143. Hah

Oh right...

I didn't know that I was discussing with someone that merely thinks saying the last thing means "you win!"


Would 'characterizations' make you happier as a word?

[MADem]

144. You seem a bit upset. nt

[kenfrequed]

146. I'm really not

Amused, yes.

Upset? No, all I have to do is scroll up and that pretty much vanishes.

And the reason is because I have clearly demonstrated your motive and technique. If anyone was still confused over what you were doing here then I think we have that pretty much covered.

Or... I dunno... would you have rather I let you imply I am upset as your "Internet Winz" prize?

[MADem]

147. I don't think it's terribly amusing for someone on the radio to misrepresent a weeks-old story

in the WSJ, and have a DUer assume that the information the person is passing on is accurate in terms of tone. Which it wasn't.

You haven't demonstrated anything (clearly or otherwise) save you've a bias against me, and you've demonstrated it with each accusatory post you made. Could it be you just like to fight?

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense--it sounds a bit juvenile, whenever I see words morphed to end with Z I think "teen ager."

[kenfrequed]

157. I only posted what you wrote

I'm sorry if that makes you feel bad. But literally everyone can look at this thread and find the quotations.


More ad hominems. How utterly tedious.

[MADem]

158. Don't be sorry, I don't feel bad--and you're right--everyone CAN read the thread

in full context--ain't literacy grand!

Sorry you're finding things "utterly tedious." And that whole ad hominem deal? I don't think you've got the meaning of that down, either...!

[kenfrequed]

159. Yawn

Ugh.. it means roughly "against the man." It is an argument where you characterize the arguer. For the love of gods, do you really think you are that much more brilliant and mature than everyone around you?

Seriously, can you make an argument without condescension?

I posted your comments and quoted you. All you have done since then is make snide comments, insulted me, and suggested that I am somehow infantile.

Are you done yet?

[MADem]

160. Golly--ain't that something?

Ugh.. it means roughly "against the man." It is an argument where you characterize the arguer. For the love of gods, do you really think you are that much more brilliant and mature than everyone around you?

Seriously, can you make an argument without condescension?

Not to overuse a word, but it looks to me like YOU are the one who smelt it AND dealt it...!

Check your mirror, sport!

[kenfrequed]

162. What color is the sky in your world?

So in addition to spin you do projection too...?

Cool!

Yeah, you definitely win the whole internet!

[MADem]

163. The only one who is concerned about "win/winz" in this exchange is not me. nt

[kenfrequed]

164. I am just curious how long you'll do this

Really, this is comedy. Everyone can scroll right up thread and see the quotes you made on this thread. You can't hide it or run from it.

I'm just curious how often long you will keep posting on this sub-thread.

[yeoman6987]

128. No workout? I think he can and should go to the gym

And take an iPod. Although he probably gets a ton of gossip from the workers as they typically know all.

[Cleita]

134. He does workout but not there. I've seen photos on the intertubes

of him lifting weights.

[yeoman6987]

136. As I continued reading the comments others mentioned that too

Thank you for the reply. As others have mentioned it doesn't seem like a story that should even be written. Again realized that by others reading down the comments.

[valerief]

2. Sounds right. He's been working for the non-privileged his whole life.

He's at home with us, not the elites.

[azmom]

9. I love this. It keeps him out of the

Bubble.

[Zorra]

11. The very fact that he feels comfortable with real people, and shuns places

where slimy deals are made deliberately out of public view, speaks volumes for his character.

Bernie is the type of person I hang with IRL, and the type of person who I want to represent me in democratic government.

[SonderWoman]

15. Has Bernie had a doctor exam?

I know presidential candidates usually have them and release results.

[Cleita]

18. I'm sure it will be out there if not already.

btw, Bernie does exercise, not just in the Capitol gym.

[Blue_Adept]

19. Obligatory "If Hillary did this she'd be fake" post

[Prism]

26. Not sure how good this is

While it's fairly perfunctory to criticize "backroom deals," Congress has always been that way and will always be that way. Oftentimes the meat of bills has been written in informal conversation and bargain processes long before the first drop of ink hits paper. Backroom deals can be used for good or ill. It depends on the deal. Using a recentish example, the movie Lincoln portraying how the 14th Amendment came to pass. That was essence of backroom dealing. But it was necessary and worked.

It's admirable and speaks well to Sanders' personal character that he prefers the company of the working class to the rich and powerful.

But, when selecting a politician, I do want someone who has a wrench in the machinery, able to direct or stop it when necessary.

This bit of information doesn't make me like him less or be any less likely to vote for him. It just doesn't strike me as much a benefit as others seem to think.

[Cleita]

40. Congress has always had lobbyists, but Bernie won't have anything to do with them either.

He refuses to join the corruption of the system and someone needs to do that.

[Prism]

45. If I have a concern, it's the Obama trap

I very much liked campaign Obama, thought he had a lot of good ideas, and thought his inexperience was actually a benefit for him. He wasn't there long enough to have been thoroughly corrupted.

But that is a double-edged sword. Once Obama assumed office, it became rapidly apparent that his lack of knowledge and inability to manipulate Congress was a big problem for him. Congress just never feared the guy, and he could never quite figure out how to twist the right arms to get things done as much as he could have.

I don't want a President Sanders in a same position - good ideas that rapidly go nowhere in Congress.

[Cleita]

52. Unlike Obama, Sanders has spent more than 25 years in Congress in Washington. He has consistently

had the same message and acted on it. Because he has been in Washington so long, anyone who has tried to buy him, influence him or threaten him have failed. My only concern is that he may be assassinated like Paul Wellstone, another guy who should have been President but who died before his time.

[Prism]

56. Hopefully he will be fine

After Seattle, I'd like to see him get some security.

And despite what I've said above, I'd still be enormously pleased to see a President Sanders.

[MADem]

97. That's what Rahm was for--and they did fear him. nt

[Prism]

104. All the obstruction says no, they did not

But still, even with all that, he has gotten some solid things accomplished.

[MADem]

107. Well, unless we're flies on the wall (and I'm not, anymore, anyway)

there's no way to really know how much worse it might have been.

I do have a persistent feeling that turn-the-air-blue,half bird-flipping Rahm knew where a lot of bodies were buried. Some people don't like him, but he is one tough so-and-so. He doesn't back down easily.

[rhett o rick]

152. What a sad state of things when we might choose a manipulator over an honest person.

Remember that your manipulator may not be working for the 99%. She may be able to get things done, but will they hurt us or help her billionaire friends.

I choose to vote for honesty and integrity and willing to take our chances.

[Prism]

153. I'm not a Clinton supporter

And President Lincoln was a very, very manipulative man. It all depends on intent and what the final goal is.

[Zorra]

34. 27 replies, and I can only see 5 of them.

Life is good.

[haikugal]

41. it's working!

LOL...the swarm!

[Cleita]

42. You have that many on ignore? It seems your choices have been wise ones. eom

[Zorra]

60. Yeah. Seriously, what are they going to say that I didn't already know they were going to say

before they did?

I've been posting here for over 12 years. Patterns show close to 100% MSM induced predictability among the Third Way center right and republicans.

Same shit, different day.

[FlatBaroque]

53. Bet mine's

is bigger than yours

[Bryce Butler]

72. We must many of the same ppl on ignore.

Like you, I only see 5 of the replies before yours.

[Mnpaul]

145. You didn't miss anything

nothing at all.

[seaglass]

78. I'm not sure I get the point of this. Why does it matter where he makes deals with Senators?

No idea how anyone could think he could get legislation passed without working with other legislators and compromising. Hate to burst bubbles but he will need to do the same thing if he becomes president.

That has actually been my biggest concern about Bernie. Lots of talk, lots of filing good bills that have no chance in hell of passing but only 3 bills passed through his entire career. Until I read this article below that describes how he works and gets things done. And it is called working across the aisle - giving up something to get something. He does this, he has to and hopefully he doesn't give up too much. I'm GLAD he knows how to do this because otherwise all he would be is a vote, which is nice but not enough to be a presidential contender for me.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2016-elections/bernie-sanders-is-a-loud-stubborn-socialist-republicans-like-him-anyway-20150727

[Cleita]

84. Except when he becomes President, they will have to come to the Oval Office to meet

with him. The President does not by definition make legislation, but tradition has it that he must convince Congress to get bills passed that he wants. That involves some reaching across the aisle, however, making deals in back rooms is not part of it. Even if Republicans or Democrats have decided what they want in the gym or elsewhere, when they meet with the President, they will have to talk in front of each other.

[seaglass]

91. In the job he has now, to be effective he needs to be able to work with others in both parties.

And he does. Where he meets is of little consequence. If he wasn't capable of working with others, leading, negotiating then he would be a failure at his job which would make him a poor candidate for president.

[MADem]

105. No, they won't. That happens infrequently, when there are difficult gaps between where both

branches want to be, the legislation is deemed crucial, and every negotiation attempt has failed.

The Congress doesn't kow-tow to the President...the President sends emmissaries (who often DO cut side deals) to try to treat with them, and oftentimes, the legislatures will tell POTUS to pound sand.

It's not a senior-subordinate relationship. It's two co-equal branches of government--executive and legislative.

The VP carries a lot of that water to Congress--Biden is very good at it. Cheney was, in his own dark way, frighteningly effective.

In fact, POTUS goes to Congress every year to ask for what he'd like, to inform Congress of how things are going along, and entreat Congress to consider his desires--that little event is called the State of the Union address.

[stevenleser]

101. Sometimes you have to laugh at the melodrama people try to create around their candidate.

See he is a man of the people, he doesn't want to be around those rich senators! Which is of course why he ran for senate, to not be around senators!

See my #100.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

89. Wonder how many are wheeling and dealing in the locker room.

[George II]

93. A migthty effective way to accomplish things with one's fellow legislators.

No wonder his list of legislative accomplishments is scant.

[JackInGreen]

95. Since everyone's off about how weak and

Out of the loop he sounds for not hitting the gym to engage with the backroom wheeling and dealing.....anyone want to comment that him flying coach? I mean, come on. Gotta be some nit to pick with it isn't there?

[MADem]

112. Many legislators fly coach.

I've seen Schumer on the NY-DC shuttle, one size fits all.

I've even seen John KERRY in coach...but that was a long time ago. He's got his own plane these days.

Some Republican (I think he had a "D" co-sponsor) put forth a bill last year that was entitled "If Our Military Has to Fly Coach Then So Should Congress" or something like that--he was complaining that the loopholes (sky miles, loyalty program upgrades, etc.) that allow them to do this should be closed.

I don't think that effort got anywhere.

[retrowire]

98. He flies coach and walks to work...

A genuine man, with a lot of grace.

And to all the people who are spinning the crap out of this...

Get a hobby, lmao.

[stevenleser]

100. This is hilarious.

When this was said on the radio, did they have a violin playing sad music as background?

[MADem]

116. +1. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

103. How dare he lunch with the working class!! He must be a (Gasp!) SOCIALIST!!

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/z8UaZqNqhcEenHkoV0mtBQ--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NjQ4O3E9OTU7dz04NTM-/

[Cleita]

106. The pretzel logic being presented by the anti-Bernie folks

trying to discredit him is hilarious.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

108. Yep. If he was a real representive of the people he'd be scratchin' his jock strap and

cuttin' deals with the millionaires.

[MADem]

120. No one is trying to "discredit" him--but that story you heard on the radio?

That sounds a bit smelly and deep to me. Not your fault, it's not your story, you're just repeating it. The radio personality trying to "defend" Bernie for not going to the gym just took things a bit too far.

I'll bet it didn't happen that way at all. If I had to put money down, I'd bet he gets his styrofoam cup of coffee to go at the shop in the Russell basement, where the prices are cheaper than other places, which is why the lower-salaried people frequent that joint.

[Cleita]

122. I never said otherwise. It's something said on the radio but it's so

Bernie, I'm certain it's true. However, the tales spun out of this have been pretty entertaining.

[MADem]

129. The only tale spun was the radio one. He buys his coffee in the basement

shop. He doesn't use the Senate gym.

Those are really the only verifiable items in the story.

All of this "He doesn't use the gym BECAUSE...." and "He drinks coffee WITH...." and "He prefers their company...." nonsense is just that--nonsense. For all we know, he prefers the prices and the speed of service, not "the company." And not everyone is a Harry Reid--maybe he doesn't like gym workouts. He is missing out on the schmooze, though--but that's up to him.

For all you know, he could be seething with rage at having to wait in line for his latte when he has a ten thirty meeting, but he's holding in his ire because he's a polite person.

In fact, if I had to guess, I'd guess that the entire radio spin you heard was based on an article from the Wall Street Journal that ran a month ago that talks about how he might be seen in the cafeteria on occasion--here's the link, in all its glory--and note the word AMID--not "with" -- AMID. That word has a very different meaning. If he's eating breakfast "amid" the hoi polloi, he's at his own table, chowing down, surrounded by working stiffs at their own tables, not holding a colloquy:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-record-shows-knack-for-voter-appeal-1437529777

WASHINGTON— Bernie Sanders doesn’t exercise in the U.S. Senate gym, where many of his colleagues hang out and forge friendships. He is more likely to have breakfast amid the interns in a basement cafeteria than in the formal Senate dining room. And the Vermont Independent is sometimes so focused on business that he often launches into phone conversations without even saying “hello.”

On the campaign trail, the 73-year-old who is running for president as a Democrat, is attracting large, cheering crowds drawn by his unabashedly liberal positions on Wall Street, taxes and government spending. Inside the Capitol, where he’s served for more than 20 years, he cuts a different figure—a distant and quirky lawmaker whose legislative record is mostly made up of modest wins captured through compromise.

[Cleita]

130. Stephanie Miller, who is a Hillary supporter, but also reports

stories about Bernie probably did get that from there.

[MADem]

114. Where does it say he "lunches" with the working class?

Near as I can tell, what can be established is he buys his coffee in the shop in the basement of the Russell Senate Office Building (which has better prices than a lot of places around the hill, and as a consequence is patronized by people with small paychecks).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

117. Lesser breed? Lower class? 99%? Ordinary folks?

Take your pick.

[MADem]

140. You didn't answer the question. Where did it say he LUNCHES?

Let me help you out, here--it doesn't say anything of the sort.

A couple of comments by a radio commentator, who apparently stretched a few entirely neutral lines from a WSJ article, resulted in this thread of agita, defensiveness and speculation.

[Autumn]

111. Good for him. I wouldn't associate with them either.

[klook]

118. They have mirrors in there and the others could see he has no reflection. (n/t)

[treestar]

124. No wonder none of his bills get passed

Is that supposed to mean he's superior?

[Cleita]

127. He wouldn't get them passed in this present toxic congress anyway.

Corporatists don't want work bills and free college and other things that might benefit the 99%.

[HFRN]

137. I'm a Sanders supporter, but

i think going to the gym is really good for you, in a high stress job - really gets the creative juices flowing for me when I'm stuck

[George II]

138. The man is freaking 74 years old! How many people go to gyms at that age?

To raise this as a topic of discussion is inane, probably only mentioned to keep Sanders' name in the spot light.

Of course, as is usual, its the ubiquitous and non-specific "reported on a radio show today", meaning it's most likely fictional anyway.

[Cleita]

139. I'm seventy five and I'm going to the gym right now to work out with a group

of women I work out with all the time. Most of them are middle aged, thirties and forties, but a few of us are over sixty. But that isn't what this is about. Bernie does work out but not in the Capitol gym where deals are made.

[George II]

141. Do you have any facts regarding the "deals" that are made in the Capitol gym?

I suspect the most important deal made there is where a couple of legislators might go for dinner that night.

So, on what "radio show" did you hear this "reported"?

[brooklynite]

148. Unless Interns and Clerical Staff have a vote on the floor...

...then his job involves negotiating with other Senators...in the gym or elsewhere.

Unless you feel his job is to state a position and do nothing to convince anyone else.

[Cleita]

149. He knows that interns and clerical staff don't have that vote, but he wants to know

what they are thinking. He talks to the 99%. He already knows what the 1% thinks.

[olddots]

150. Oy !

Oy oy 7

[NanceGreggs]

151. Ya know, I'm so glad that Bernis supporters ...

... are all about "sticking to the issues".

And what issue could be more important than the fact that BS won't go to the Capitol gym?

Talk about your game-changer - I think this is definitely it.

[Cleita]

154. Thanks for the snark. I would think that a writer would know what this is about.

Actually, I know that you do. Let's play. I can't until morning though. But I'm looking forward to it.

[NanceGreggs]

156. Play what?

Shall we play "Let's pretend that BS not going to the Capitol Gym is important"?

[Babel_17]

161. I started seeing him as a sketch of a great Senator

As the picture gets more fully drawn, I'm impressed by the clearer picture. Thanks for helping with that!

[Frank Cannon]

165. He doesnt want to shame his Republican colleagues in the locker room.

What can I say? It's a problem for guys like us.

[brooklynite]

166. Okay-let's say Bernie has an issue...

(his proposal to make Election Day a national holiday, for example).

You appear to not want him to negotiate and "make deals". How does he get suuport for his Bill, if his speeches are sufficiently "inspiring"? Or is getting this accomplished not important?