Why did Talib Kwell attack Sanders on Bill Maher?

[question everything]

Granted, this was the first I've heard of him. "Hip hop" is not my "thing," still, I really could not follow his logic - such as there was..

http://deadline.com/2015/08/is-bernie-sanders-fair-game-for-black-activists-bill-maher-talib-kweli-take-sides-1201499763/

Hip-hop artist and activist Talib Kweli challenged Bill Maher Friday by insisting that progressive Democratic Bernie Sanders shouldn’t get a free pass on issues of race merely for having a progressive track record. “The job of activism is not to be liked and not to be polite,” Kweli said on HBO’s Real Time With Bill Maher when Maher questioned the judgement of the two Black Lives Matter activists who shut down a Sanders speech in Seattle earlier this week.

“Bernie Sanders is not the problem,” Maher said, noting that Sanders has “a 100 percent approval rating from the NAACP.” Snapped Kweli, “The NAACP liked Donald Sterling, too.” Kweli then backtracked a bit by noting that he initially shared Maher’s opinion about the Sanders protest but now “stands corrected.”

“Just because somebody has a record of civil rights doesn’t mean they are automatically entitled to the black vote,” said Kweli, adding “It’s very possible to be progressive and still have no understanding of racial issues.” Kweli, who recently organized two concerts to benefit Ferguson protestors and the family of Michael Brown, also noted that the Sanders protest probably had to do with logistics as much as politics. Sanders, he said, was “the easiest to get to because he’s somebody who’s dealing with the people more directly than a Jeb Bush or a Hilary Clinton.”

=====

Sanders is not my first choice but I think that it was disrespectful and counterproductive to prevent him, or any other candidate, from saying what they want to say.

[TheFarS1de]

1. You are not alone ...

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching it . There was nothing positive coming from his discussion about Sander's other than trying to belittle Sander's history with racial activism . Basically I think he shot himself in the foot .

[MuseRider]

2. I agree with Talib Kweli

and I believe Bernie would as well. I don't think Bernie believes he has not been active, it may be just a difference in how they are viewing it. Never-the-less, there is a point being made here and it is a good one and one that is shared by a lot of people. Do not leave them out, listen and answer. I believe Bernie is listening and beginning to answer. Hopefully it will be the right thing for them. It is in his court.

[seabeyond]

3. “It’s very possible to be progressive and still have no understanding of racial issues.”

Why did Talib Kwell attack Sanders on Bill Maher?

“It’s very possible to be progressive and still have no understanding of racial issues.”

he answered your question.

[MuseRider]

5. You are back!

[seabeyond]

7. i am....

AND

i am still thrilled to see you going strong supporting sanders ....

you do it in grace

[MuseRider]

14. PM sent!

We can do this like grownups I believe AND as friends.

[seabeyond]

16. i believe.... lol

we are that good

[emsimon33]

9. I figured that he was in the pocket of another candidate

Unfortunately, it appears the many of the BLM people do not understand how to best get their message across. In the process, they are not only making fools of themselves, but they are doing serious damage to their cause.

None of the other candidates have the unwavering record of supporting civil rights as Bernie does. That the BLM people are attacking Bernie and disrupting his rallies the most probably makes the other candidates that have raised their right legs and peed all over civil rights for their entire political careers chuckle and feel that not fighting for civil rights for African Americans was a good move on their part as "look where it has gotten Bernie."

If they are not more savvy, the BLM will find their their real enemies get the last laugh

[seabeyond]

12. how can you say blm is not effective. 3 months of sanders refusing to discuss anything but

Last edited Sat Aug 15, 2015, 09:54 PM - Edit history (1)

economic equality was turned on its ear by blm. and now sanders has people that are educating him on the issues that needs to be address with the black issues adn actually advocate for blacks, across the nation.

here is the thing.

blm is not about the candidates. they are about their voice being heard. and for a couple months now, their voice is heard from one coast to another. it has been very effective. a glaring success.

and no, the other democratic candidates are not peeing on civil rights and they too are advocates. some more... than sanders, dare i say.

and still.... you missed me. THAT is incredibly nice, ty.

[Luminous Animal]

22. Really. June 6th. 7 days in New Hampshire after his official announcement in Vermont.

Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:06 AM - Edit history (1)

Accountability for any LEO/CO who breaks the law (re citizens or prisoners); he references SC killer cop being indicted. Prosecute them.
Community policing; integration with the people not occupation and military gear.
Training and better pay for police.
Shift our $$ priorities from jailing AA youth to education and job opportunities for them.

#t=43

And this from July 1st. Prior to Net Roots Nation

One day before Net Roots Nation

So, no. He did not refuse to talk about "anything but economic equality". And I am really getting sick and tired of this canard being posted over and over again.

[Snotcicles]

24. +1.nt

[Vattel]

29. +1000

[MelungeonWoman]

35. Thank you for an excellent rebuttal.

[List left]

37. the facts have been widely ignored

and false accounts repeated by the media.

Deep breath everyone...........

[Juicy_Bellows]

40. This should be an OP if it isn't already.

Thanks for posting.

[PADemD]

46. Please post as it's own OP.

[emsimon33]

62. Their lies and misdirection will only do them harm

and alienate the very people who have fought for them and marched with them and vetted politicians and public officials to try to change the social and political infrastructure that has so marginalized and devalued African American lives.

Their attacking the very politician who has spent his career fighting for them is such a travesty. I do think that there are BLM people who are sincere. Then there are many being driven by a political agenda that has, ironically, been their slave masters and continue to be so. It truly saddens me because the killings must stop, the massive imprisonments must stop, the racism must stop but by relegating the message to an attack on Sanders rather than Republican candidates...well...enough said!

[Starry Messenger]

44. Likes on the FB page are way up and they have national media attention.

That's the opposite of hurting the cause.

[snagglepuss]

52. "look where it has gotten Bernie." Your post should be an OP.

It is absolutely bang on.

[emsimon33]

10. We have missed you!!!!!

[ljm2002]

60. Ha ha, you forgot to quote this part:

Kweli, who recently organized two concerts to benefit Ferguson protestors and the family of Michael Brown, also noted that the Sanders protest probably had to do with logistics as much as politics. Sanders, he said, was “the easiest to get to because he’s somebody who’s dealing with the people more directly than a Jeb Bush or a Hilary Clinton.”

[SonderWoman]

4. "Attack". Bernie doesn't need to be coddled.

[MuseRider]

6. Bernie does not need to be coddled.

I guess I could say the same about people who are "coddling" their candidates but I doubt I would say that.

[Bjorn Against]

8. I saw it and I did not view it as an attack at all

If you listen to what Kweli said it was nothing personal against Sanders, at one point he even suggested he thought the protest was a bad idea at first but then changed his mind when he saw how it was getting people to talk about the issue.

I do not support the Seattle protest but I do support most other Black Lives Matter protests and I can understand where Kweli is coming from even if I don't entirely agree. I don't think he has anything against Bernie, in fact I would not be at all surprised if he ends up voting for Bernie.

[Luminous Animal]

23. I 100% agree with this analysis!

[JI7]

11. he Didn't attack sanders

[question everything]

17. OK, he did not attack. But he did not see anything wrong with individuals disrupting

Sanders' speech.

As mentioned above, this is not the best way to gain support for BLM cause. Many voters do not follow the specifics - even if they should - and they appear to be a militant group.

I don't want to start a discussion here about BLM, I just don't think that his appearance helped the cause. That's all.

[delrem]

13. Nobody should get a free pass! Never!

However, taking over the stage and slandering an entire audience of a much larger venue as being "liberal white supremacists" in a move calculated to inspire anger and self-defensiveness isn't the only alternative.
To deny a Dem candidate the right to outline his platform regarding economic justice, because a-priori a platform founded on economic justice is said to be irrelevant, isn't the only alternative.

"self-criticism" should apply to all selves - and if it isn't, there can't be a meeting of minds over different perspectives.

[SMC22307]

15. Kwell's argument is bullshit from the start.

No one thinks Sanders is "automatically entitled to the black vote." Sanders is out there every day, busting his hump, to get his message out and garner votes.

There are an insane number of Americans -- white, black and brown -- who can't name the Vice President of any given administration. Black Twitter didn't like Sanders' supporters attempting to inform others about his civil rights history? Tough shit. I knew he marched on Washington, but didn't know about his student activism at the University of Chicago. I'm thankful for those informative tweets. I tend to like O'Malley, and want to take in as much information about him as possible. Whether it's slams from David-what's-his-name from The Wire, or DUers singing his praises.

Jesus, so many chips on so many shoulders.

[JI7]

18. why do you assume they didn't know about Sanders background ?

[SMC22307]

25. Why do you assume I was referring to just blacks with the use of "they"?

There's a broad audience on Twitter. Tweets about Sanders' background have been flying, fast and furious. Black Twitter decided it didn't like it.

[Alittleliberal]

50. Most Americans don't even vote, let alone pay attention to a politicians background.

Every demographic. Every single one. I bet the vast majority of people couldn't tell you what state Clinton was the governor of.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

19. Kwell comparing Bernie to Donald Sterling?

Don't know who Kwell is, and can now safely dismiss him as an ignorant fool.

He's right though that he's the easiest to get to, which is why he was targeted.

[TM99]

30. Yes, my problem is the comparison as well.

Millions of viewers now have the association of Sanders and his track record with Donald Sterling, a real racist & sexist.

It is very hard for me not to think this is somehow orchestrated. Kwell didn't have to make that comparison just to say that any politician is not automatically entitled to a group's vote. But, you know, he now 'stands corrected'....wink....wink.....say no more!

[Luminous Animal]

33. No. Kwell did not compare Bernie to Sterling. He was taking the NAACP to task. Not Bernie.

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. The comparison was in response to Maher's citing to Bernie's 100 NAACP rating ...

He was saying "So what? Sterling, also, was seen favorably by the NAACP."

That is was a true and relevant observation ... Much like "Bernie marched with Dr. King" ... well so did Liebermann and McConnell ... so, so what?

[gollygee]

58. That wasn't a comparison between the two

It's more like, "So-and-so must be a good person. He's a vegetarian." And then someone could say, "Being a vegetarian doesn't prove anything. Hitler was a vegetarian." In that case, the underlying statement is that vegetarianism isn't proof of someone being a good person, not that so-and-so is akin to Hitler. It is pointing out a flaw in the logic, and that's all.

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Yeah, I know… and this logic defies me… WTF

In other words, it should not matter what candidate Sanders has stood for, because it was all about the strategy of their movement.

Well, that might be good for media attention, but this did not jibe with the statement he made (more like false argument)… Just because 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't mean it will always = 2.

I maybe have understanding of his intent, but it's a low shot for a shitty reason I don't have to go into further.

It's pathetically fucked up.

[Skwmom]

21. Nobody said he was entitled to the Black Vote. No one is.

But I think it had everything to do with politics. Look at the difference in treatment and distortion and spin of what actually transpired.

They could have asked for the mike and given an impassioned accounting of what's happening in the black community and asked for support. They could have even voiced their concerns with what is happening in Seattle. But calling the audience white supremacists, screaming and yelling to shut up and sit down and demanding that you be given the mike when these organizers would have given them time to speak looks like they wanted to incite a reaction (of Bernie and the crowd). Bernie handled it with dignity and grace.


Didn't hear any such comments aimed at Bush and his supporters (just the chant that BLM).

[SMC22307]

26. Exactly. No one is saying that. (n/t)

[CentralMass]

27. Don't donit, its like stepping on a landmine.

[valerief]

28. Wow, isn't this dead horse dead yet? nt

[Larkspur]

31. Being angry, black and willing to bully your way onto a stage does not make one a civil rights

activist either.

BLM and their allies criticism of Bernie strikes me as that they have a deep streak of antisemitism in them.
I still don't see any #bowdownHillary or #bowdownJeb or #bowdownTrump coming from the BLM "activists".

For Christ's sake, Donald Trump slapped the face of BLM with a direct challenge to take the microphone from him and he's laughing in BLM's face. Not a peep from BLM. Not even a #bowdownTrump.

We know that antisemitism runs in the militant black movements and has so for generations.
#bowdownBernie smacks of antisemitism.

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. Talib Kweli is smarter than 99.9% of people on this board

He's goddamn right, too: the disruption itself looked stupid, until it exposed the gaping race-stupidity of white progressives - a group who may very well have just lost the black vote for a generation due to their stupidity on Black Lives Matter. The disruption of Senator Sanders was dumb. The white progressive response, on the other hand, has been a horrendous reminder that racism pervades the American polis.

[SMC22307]

34. "He refuses to vote"

How smart is that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talib_Kweli

(Any fans out there know whether this is true?)

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Talib Kweli is smarter than 99.9% of people on this board

It's not even a close question.

[Comrade Grumpy]

39. Why do you hang out with a bunch of dolts?

[Juicy_Bellows]

41. Are you the .1% ?

[msanthrope]

45. Yes. AM definitely is. One of the first to call bullshit on the "24 business hours" nonsense. nt

[SMC22307]

51. How's Yoshi?

Or are you not (understandably) in a position to discuss the matter?

[msanthrope]

55. Being moved, hither, thither, and yon.....I'm hoping at some point, TTW accepts the help

offered to her and recognizes that Yoshi needs a stable owner and home.

As for being in a position to discuss---well, TTW's already contacted every state agency she could think of. My understanding is that the master plan is that once criminal charges are laid against ex and I, a civil suit for 'damages' can proceed. So, one way or the other, DU will keep funding this mess.....

[SMC22307]

56. Wow. No good deed goes unpunished.

Poor Yoshi.

Good luck.

[msanthrope]

57. Thanks. nt

[SMC22307]

49. Perhaps, but he doesn't vote.

And we're on a board that is:

...always looking for friendly, liberal people who appreciate good discussions and who understand the importance of electing more Democrats to office.

It's rather amusing. White libruls are trashed ad nauseam for not voting, when, in fact, they vote religiously. Wonder why this guy is given a pass.

[azurnoir]

38. White progressives have lost the Black vote for a generation?

where ever did you pull that from ? Are you comparing Black voters in 2015 to White Republican voters in 1964? Are you saying Black voters will vote for White conservatives?

. Talib Kweli is smarter than 99.9% of people on this board
View profile
He's goddamn right, too: the disruption itself looked stupid, until it exposed the gaping race-stupidity of white progressives - a group who may very well have just lost the black vote for a generation due to their stupidity on Black Lives Matter. The disruption of Senator Sanders was dumb. The white progressive response, on the other hand, has been a horrendous reminder that racism pervades the American polis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251520785#post32

[SMC22307]

53. Or they'll sit out for a generation?

All because Seattleans (Seattleites?) -- those who voted to RAISE both the minimum wage, and property taxes to implement "Preschool for All" -- rejected being called "white supremacist liberals" by a couple of loudmouth racists? Those citizens REALLY suck.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/06/02/seattle-minimum-wage-vote/9863061/

http://www.seattle.gov/council/issues/PreschoolforAll/default.html

[Number23]

63. FINALLY somebody on this board that doesn't just listen to Ingleburt Humperdink

Tailib Kweli has been preaching truth in the black community for years. He is far more political than a Jay-Z but less militant than a Chuck D. These folks on DU not knowing who he is just proves how ASTONISHINGLY out of touch DU is.

And yes, your comment about him being smarter than 99% of this board was 100% truth. And your comments about white progressives losing the black vote for a generation may very well be as well, though to be honest, none of this is new. Which is probably why the vast majority of black people align themselves with the white "left" as much as they do conservatives.

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. Notably, the misspelling of his name in the OP (likely accidental)

Was repeated numerous times throughout the thread.

They really never heard of Talib Kweli! It's unbelievable.

[NaturalHigh]

42. I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph.

My point of view exactly.

[me b zola]

43. I don't take anyone seriously who states that they care about civil rights

I don't take anyone seriously who states that they care about civil rights so much that they bash life-long supporter of civil rights Bernie but supports Hillary or O'Malley. Both Clinton and O'Malley have records as elected officials that are explicitly the type of policies that BLM says that they are fighting. The pièce de résistance for Hillary, though, was when her 2008 primary campaign began using racist dog whistles to garner the white vote.

[Gothmog]

47. I need to watch this week's Maher show

[Senator Tankerbell]

54. I didn't see it as an attack on Sanders.

He was defending the protesters from criticism. I support Sanders and I agree with what he said.

PS. Talib Kweli is a great rapper and a great person in general. As Jay-Z once said, "If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be, lyrically, Talib Kweli."

[LWolf]

59. Kweli is correct. Nobody is "entitled" to a single vote.

Hopefully, America will evaluate candidates on issues and make choices based on those issues.

Nobody is "entitled," and I sure as hell have NEVER suggested that anyone is, although it's a perpetual point here at DU to point out that the Democratic Party is entitled to my vote.

Disclaimer: I am not advocating for voting for anything or anyone outside of the Democratic Party, as per DU rules. I am a Democrat. I'm just pointing out that, while no candidate is entitled to a vote, here at DU entitlement is part and parcel of the TOS.

I think Kweli also correct about the logistics.

I also agree with Maher that Sanders is not the problem. The problem is not any one candidate, or the group of candidates, in the '16 primaries. It's a hell of a lot more long-term, wide-spread, and embedded than that. The primary campaigns DO offer a vehicle for activism.

[Vinca]

61. No one is automatically entitled to anyone's vote, but it would make more sense

to vote for a person who has been a civil rights activist if that is your cause.