2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSpeaking of using full quotes. The devil is often in the details... (Clinton BLM)
4 days ago, a Hillary supporter provided the following as an "accurate" quote of what Hillary said. But take careful not of what was removed intentionally and how it changes the tone completely.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251533482
"Respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems," Clinton replied.
Now here is the ACTUAL transcript.... I think people are worried about how bad this really was and are trying to fling enough bullshit on top of this so the turd will be indistinguishable.
JULIUS JONES: And then, we are also, respectfully, respectfully
JULIUS JONES: Respectfully, the piece thats most importantand I stand here in your space, and I say this as respectfully as I canbut if you dont tell black people what we need to do, then we wont tell you all what you need to do. Right?
HILLARY CLINTON: Im not telling you; Im just telling you to tell me.
JULIUS JONES: What I mean to say is that this is, and has always been, a white problem of violence. Its nottheres not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.
HILLARY CLINTON: Well, if that is the
JULIUS JONES: And its a conversation and a pushback.
HILLARY CLINTON: OK, I understand. I understand what youre saying.
JULIUS JONES: And then, we are also, respectfully, respectfully
HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah, well, respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with a very real problem.
JULIUS JONES: Thats not what I mean. Thats not what I mean. Thats not what I mean.
HILLARY CLINTON: Well
JULIUS JONES: But like, what Im saying is youwhat you just said was a form of victim blaming. Right? You were saying that what the Black Lives Matter movement
That is an enormous change in tone. To begin with "respectfully" or to begin with "Yeah, well..." and then parrot the word "respectfully" back at the speaker.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Those totally were tone setters.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)To some polite BLM activists.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Because it would reinforce the bogus narrative that he's somehow bad on racial issues.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)he would only talk to white people
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)There was gender politics at play in this as well. Subtle but there.
If a White man had gotten like that with a Black woman, there would have been HELL to pay.
OTOH, White woman being forceful with a Black man is a completely different dynamic.
Let's not be naive here.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)but you are right.
So I will rephrase here. A white person aggressively jabbing their finger towards a black persons chest and lecturing to them what they should do to make that white person more self-aware (because that was and is the issue
Hillary has not and did not take PERSONAL responsibly) of her personal responsibly for promoting and lobbying for a bill that was surely going to put black people in jail
is, you know, not cool.
Also, not cool, is her suggestion that people who have meager resources come up with and advertising campaign. As if she does not have millions to do so and a staff of thousands to make it so.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Attacked for a lot less. QUEEN BEE gets a pass though.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)is wrong? So PoC don't know when the white person is being "fine" with them?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)She was worse than I could have hoped for.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If you listen to his speeches, he not only addresses BLM issues and makes an unequivocal commitment to reform the justice system to stop the violence and excessive imprisonments, but his campaign press secretary, Symone Sanders starts the rallies with a speech that emphasizes BLM issues. The crowds go wild in support for the BLM issues.
Just listen to his speeches in South Carolina, for example.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And then she tried to tell them what to do which resulted in Jones telling her she was "victim blaming".
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)And after her one-sided preaching was done, they were ushered out.
ALBliberal
(2,344 posts)more attitude. I just can't believe she talked to him that way. And they dare say Bernie and O'Malley flubbed their surprise protests? How can this be spun as a good and thoughtful response?
jfern
(5,204 posts)after Sanders' surprise shutdowns. The double standard is ridiculous.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)And according to this OP not listening to Black Lives Matter is A-Okay because "they" are not the audience.
""What the commentators and the BLM activists are missing is that they arent the important audience"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=540487
ALBliberal
(2,344 posts)His speeches. Can you IMAGINE if HRC had been confronted in the same way what her reaction would be? If this quote makes it around the AA community it will be a bad thing for the HRC campaign. Borders on Romney's 47% remark.
HappyPlace
(568 posts)Watch her head nodding, defensive and totally inappropriate contrasting with his cool and calm demeanor.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It signals tremendous impatience and irritation and arrogance.
.
The nodding speaker THINKS that their gesture says "yes I see", but it really indicates, "I already know what I'm going to say so hurry up and finish so I can say it."
And then she uses his sincere "respectfully" as an insincere snotty comeback.
I am appalled, but not surprised.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Way over the top. WAY OVER.....
oasis
(49,406 posts)Congressional investigative panels, not to BLM not to nobody. Her "tone" bothered you? gimme a break.
Hill gave as good as she got from the BLM folks. They achieved some measure of understanding, which was most important.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)oasis
(49,406 posts)To their concerns. They (together) moved the issue forward in a positive way.
ALBliberal
(2,344 posts)That asking Senator Sanders to bow down was somehow ok? Because I found it very rude that BLM Seattle would disrespect Bernie with that kind of language. I don't think either candidate deserves that sort of treatment.
oasis
(49,406 posts)That's it.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)And no, it is NOT in their playbook. That woman was not even a real BLM member. She was a Christian whackjob who most likely hates Jews.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)"I had a Sarah Palin Button on my Backpack" Johnson.
Amazingly some so-called "Things of All Things Blackness" host had Sarah Johnson...OOPS....Marissa Johnson on their show. The response was softball questions and laughs during the interview.
Marissa would NOT have gotten the same softballs or laughs on our podcast. In fact, she would have got the interrogation treatment, instead.
Would post a link for our podcast challenge to get Marissa to come on but for the sake of this post --- and trying to stay on DU, we won't. It's on Soundcloud under the name in the sig if folks want to look it up.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)It was quite a treat of a show and it appears looking our Soundcloud plus podcast feed numbers, plenty of folks caught the archive file. Although Marissa did not live up to the challenge nor the "Things of All Things Blackness" hosts, we had so much fun with that podcast. So much fun indeed.
ALBliberal
(2,344 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It meant, "Jews, you have not yet admitted that Jesus is the Messiah you say you are waiting for. Repent!"
It is not anything new to us because we have all, or most, been attacked personally with this very thing.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)nod, nod, nod
Old Crow
(2,212 posts)You can argue about tone, and gestures, body language, and intent until the cows come home and there will never be a consensus. Hillary fans will say she did great; others will say she performed poorly.
At the end of the day, what matters is POLICY and ISSUES. BLM dropped the ball at this meeting by not having any specific requests. If the issue they wanted to address was the mass incarceration of blacks in this country--and I'm all for addressing that, I think it's a national disgrace--they should have asked Hillary to renounce her association with the Prisons-for-Profit industry and pledge to return the contributions made to her campaign by private prison corporations.
As it was, they wanted her, basically, to emote; to express contrition and empathy. Well, no problemo: politicians excel at that. Her husband, after all, was the master of "Feeling Our Pain." From that standpoint, I thought Hillary's performance was solid: she said the right words while promising nothing whatsoever.
My two cents. Flame away if you must; I can take it.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)And she wanted even fewer debates than the 6 the DNC said was the fewest they could get away with.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And for what it is worth what I noticed is the body language....she stood with hands folded in front of her in a defensive posture and continuously nodded her head and said uh hu...she was not listening and was just waiting to talk...and her aid tried to speed it up.
The OP it was in portrayed it as something wonderful...I almost fell out of my chair.
HappyPlace
(568 posts)Did you mean this OP?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=540487
cui bono
(19,926 posts)I guess IOKIYAHRC.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It was painful.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Sanders respectfully lets BLM speak after being verbally abused and almost physically threatened, and he is attacked for being A) Tone deaf or B) TOO submissive.
Hillary is spoken to in hushed tones of reverence and she snaps and lectures and dismisses, and this is a "defining moment"???
People are strange when you're a stranger...
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Some people wanted so badly for them to live up to their expectations, they sort of ignored all the obvious problems. Hell, I may have even done that a bit.
our desire to see something a certain way when we are emotionally invested in it....
But in retrospect, the problems are pretty obvious.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)No one wanted to see Darth Vader as a kid.
That was fucked up.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I have no doubt that we finally saw the real, authentic Hillary.
I suspect that initial interruption before she started to speak was a last-ditch, desperate attempt to stall long enough to end the meeting, or even to provoke an outburst by the BLM reps.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)talk to white people" out of context or with no context at all? Have you seen anyone from BLM make the same accusation?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You changed the tone of the quote with that little edit.
Did you know that?
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)posters using that out of context quote disingenuously. I'll ask you again,did anyone from BLM make the same accusation about her meaning?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Did you intentionally remove the "Yeah, well" in order to change the tone?
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)mischaracterized my OP and now you want to change the subject.Hillary did not suggest that she "would only talk to white people" because BLM made her angry,which is what posters were disingenuously suggesting.That's what my OP was about.Stop trying to make it something it wasn't.If Hillary had really made such a claim out of anger at BLM,it would be splashed all over the news as opposed to limited to some white dude who seems to be speaking for BLM on DU.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You altered the quote. I'm asking if you did it because you knew the full quote sounded bad and needed softening.
Simple question.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)from the black community about the quote? Show me some non right wing links,because those are the only ones making the same claims that you are defending here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22I%27ll+only+talk+to+white+people%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I'm going to leave my original OP here too so others can see it's original intent and judge for themselves:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251533482
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)of voice at the critical juncture, and the equally shocking (to me) finger pointing and jabbing throughout. This was not a discussion across a table; this was very close physical range.
The optics for Hillary were awful. There is no lipstick that will cover that moment. This was the real Hillary.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Good lord that's all kinds of flippant condescenion.
k&r