Biden-Warren 2016 is in the works and it could work.

[ram2008]

Last edited Mon Aug 24, 2015, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Judging from the trial balloons being floated in the media and from the White House press sec today it's very clear Biden is leaning toward running. Hillary looks wounded and her numbers continue to fall, with no change in sight... Biden sees a very, very small opening and the opening requires someone else: Elizabeth Warren.

Again, judging from the media reports of Joe seeking one term and meeting with Warren this weekend, I'm getting the feeling that it will be made clear, whether indirectly or directly that Elizabeth Warren will be his vice president and the two will have sort of a co-presidency . This will be a central part of Biden's campaign strategy and it is somewhat brilliant although its still a longshot it is the way to victory in the primaries. With Warren on the ticket he'll be able to take votes from both Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters as well as those who are still very loyal to POTUS.

Pro's of Biden/Warren:

1) Obama's legacy is preserved and protected. One thing Obama has always praised is Joe's fierce loyalty. While Clinton worked with Obama, their relationship is mostly cordial and professional, rather than the deep friendship that Obama and Joe share.

2) Bridges the Gap between the Democratic Party and grassroots Dems. Liberals will get the firebrand and accountability in Warren and the pragmatism, Washington connections of Biden. This ticket, more than any, probably has the potential to get the most done for the liberal agenda.

3) This is Warrens only chance for higher office. Assuming another Dem wins this election, she will have to wait another 8 years to run and by then she will be far too old to start her own two year term (75 years old).

3) Democrats will get the woman they've always wanted for President... in 2020. And by then guess who will have the proper experience to be Veep? Julian Castro. A Warren/Castro ticket in 2020 would be the most historic in history and seal a path toward victory once again.

Con's of Biden/Warren

1) Bernie is really starting to gain steam... I've spoken to many people-- even people across the aisle are hearing his message and its resonating. There is true, uncontrolled energy out there that is ready to be tapped and change our country for the better. A Biden-Warren ticket could cause that to stabilize a bit.

2) We lose Warren in the Senate. If she gets elected we will lose her well needed voice in the Senate, many argue that VP is a toothless job, moreso than lets say Senate Majority Leader.

3) She loses her outsider image/ is branded as a loser. Let's say they do run and they win. Liz will lose some of her political freewill as she will have to be loyal to Biden's agenda. There may be times where there's a potential conflict of interest etc and she will have to go along. There's also a chance that Biden fails as President, taking Liz down with him.

As a political junky this could be very interesting to watch play out. I'm pretty sure that when Biden sat down with his consultants and advisors and asked them to plot out a path to the Presidency, they told him that this is probably the only way it could work. If Bernie's momentum continues to grow, I would say Joe should step aside and let it happen. However if he starts to stall and hits his ceiling in the coming weeks, as the pollsters predicted, then this ticket could be a viable, pragmatic alternative to keep the WH blue. Either way, I'd say if Joe is going to announce he should wait until October.

[DonCoquixote]

1. oh sweet jesus no

because then Hillary will start attacking Obama, and if need be, we will see Bill blow all those dog whistles he has never apologized for, because a lot of people,including a lot of Bernie's people secretly like his tune.

[askew]

28. Obama's press secretary said today that in the event of a Biden, Hillary primary fight that

the President hasn't ruled out endorsing. So, while vague, Obama's making it quite clear IMO that if Biden jumps in, he'll get Obama's endorsement. Hillary can run against Obama all she wants. But, AA support is all that is keeping her viable right now. Her white support is falling away and she is getting hammered in Latino media for her comments on sending child refugees back to Central America. She and/or Bill attack Obama and it is game over for Hillary.

[big_dog]

135. from the July 6, 2015 wayback machine....

President Obama has quietly promised Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren complete support if she runs for president — a stinging rebuke to his nemesis Hillary Clinton, sources tell me.
Publicly, Obama has remained noncommittal on the 2016 race, but privately he worries that Clinton would undo and undermine many of his policies. There’s also a personal animosity, especially with Bill Clinton, that dates from their tough race six years ago.
A former Harvard law professor and administration aide, Warren would energize the left wing of the Democratic Party just as Obama did against Clinton in 2008.
Thanks to her outspoken stand against big banks and the top 1 percent, Warren is the darling of progressives. She won her Senate seat thanks to millions of dollars in donations from outside Massachusetts, including from rich environmentalists and Hollywood celebrities.
Obama has authorized his chief political adviser, Valerie Jarrett, to conduct a full-court press to convince Warren to throw her hat into the ring.
In the past several weeks, Jarrett has held a series of secret meetings with Warren. During these meetings, Jarrett has explained to Warren that Obama is worried that if Hillary succeeds him in the White House, she will undo many of his policies.
He believes that the populist Warren is the best person to convince the party faithful that Hillary is out of touch with poor Americans and the middle class. Warren, in his view, would carry on the Obama legacy after he leaves the White House.

So far, Warren has been reluctant to make a commitment. During several recent interviews, she has said she has no present plans to run for president.
However, she always phrases her stance on the issue in the present tense and has refused to issue a Shermanesque statement that she will not run for the White House under any circumstances.
“Barack, Michelle and Valerie have been talking about Elizabeth Warren for quite some time,” says an Obama administration source. “Valerie has told Warren that Obama is prepared to throw a great deal of money and organizational support behind her.

“The Obamas believe that Warren sees things from the same ideological point of view as they do. She is a committed progressive who, like Obama, wants to transform America. http://nypost.com/2014/07/06/this-means-warren-obama-backs-challenger-to-hillary/

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. A lot of 'Bernie's people' refuse to vote for Hillary specifically because of those dog whistles. nt

[cali]

83. no kidding. just another cheap shot that Bernie's supporters are racists.

[cali]

80. huh? what on earth do you mean by

"a lot of Bernie's people secretly like his tune (dog whistle). That's just a really nasty thing to say and you have no evidence of that.

It seems to me that most Bernie supporters, at least here, decry that crap.

[frylock]

112. "a lot of Bernie's people secretly like his tune"

and that's why a lot of Bernie's people have been calling the Clinton's out on their racist dog whistles, because they secretly like his tune. o-kayyyyyyyy.....

[leftofcool]

2. Dream on

[moobu2]

3. I would hate to see Biden be a 4 time loser

Face it, it's either Hillary Clinton or whoever their nominee is. Bernie has reached his peak.

[ram2008]

4. Bernie has not reached his peak.

He has gone up in every weekly poll, while Clinton has gone. I think all it will take is one more rounding of polling showing Hillary falling for Joe to make his decision.

[SonderWoman]

16. Actually no. Look at his poll numbers, went both up and down.

[ram2008]

17. They have not. It's a solid upward trend.

Look at the aggregate, Bernie keeps going up, Hillary keeps going down.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

[LondonReign2]

27. That steep upward line for Bernie? Clearly a plateau!

/Clinton supporter persona

[virtualobserver]

70. a seismic event must have tilted that plateau sideways

[Eleanors38]

104. Yeah, like that one a tumbled down while squirrel hunting.

[longship]

136. Polls are meaningless this far out.

Those who think that they mean anything are either delusional or are banking confirmation bias -- the polls agree with my opinion (of course, until they don't, but one can conveniently ignore those).

Regardless, it's freaking 14 months until the election. No hurries; no worries. Just stand back and enjoy the mud fight.

[Dawgs]

10. But Hillary supporters never say that she's inevitable?

[CanadaexPat]

5. Clinton met with Warren, Biden also met with Webb...

I don't think Biden was offering VP.

[ram2008]

8. Probably not then, but eventually

But she is clearly the only choice if he's running on one term. I think that's the only way people will pull the lever for him as well. She's the only possible choice that makes sense strategically.

[Skwmom]

36. One term would pacify the Clinton crowd.

[onehandle]

6. That's the final straw for Hillary!

After her second term, she's done with this race!

[cascadiance]

7. Another con to this combination is the history of the bankruptcy bill...

I DID NOT support the bankruptcy bill when Biden pushed it in the senate, and Clinton also supported it, as do I think many of Bernie's followers reject it like I have who have known or will know the details of that bill, that is a big part of the slew of financial legislation changes that have benefitted the rich and screwed the 99% over the years.

It would SOLIDIFY my support for Bernie then as the only voice that would be solidly against such legislation. And it would reduce my image of Warren as someone who can be made to compromise her image as the outsider noted in item 3 here and someone I'd like as a VP selection for Bernie.

At this point we need some people to help lead this peaceful revolution, and Biden is not that person. He ran last time, and I think didn't resonate even as much as Edwards did who was speaking more truth to power on wealth inequality issues then too.

Biden in my book is certainly a political figure that is better on balance than Hillary Clinton is on many issues, but he still in my book isn't the president we need that Bernie is. I don't want Warren as a "figurehead" for him. I'd rather keep her in the Senate than be Biden's running mate.

[ram2008]

14. I'd be willing to forgive Biden if he selected Warren.

I don't see myself supporting him any other way and it would be a solid compromise. The thing is I and others are tired of compromising... and Bernie is finally the one who is saying "Enough is enough, no more compromises!" He doesn't do it to get ahead, he's doing it for the people.

So I myself don't want to see the political revolution that Bernie is building stop, but I think a Biden/Warren ticket could be a good insurance policy for both Sanders supporters and Hillary supporters if things go wrong. If Warren genuinely thinks she be President by teaming up with Biden, I don't really have an issue with that.

Also, it's interesting you bring up Edwards. Biden just hired Edwards' former campaign Communications director earlier today, so his messaging will probably be a throwback to Edwards' old campaign.

[cascadiance]

29. Interesting, because I still wonder to this day if Edwards staying in as long as he did was a ruse..

... to lure progressive voters who wanted to find someone to challenge Obama or Hillary away from Kucinich, so that the PTB would have someone that they knew (probably knowing his personal history in advance) they could pull the plug on at any time, which they did right before Super Tuesday.

If they'd outed him early on, Kucinich would likely have had a lot more support, and even if he didn't and likely wouldn't have won the nomination, he, perhaps staying in the race longer then without Edwards in it could have stirred later debate and campaign discussion topics more towards substantive discussion of progressive issues to prompt commitments from either Obama and Hillary which they didn't give when it was just between them, or they left very nebulous on what they'd do on things like "renegotiating NAFTA and other trade deals" that Obama said he'd do instead of telling us what he would do with crap like TPA and TPP that he's exposed to be doing now.

Therefore, if Edwards' campaign communications director is working for Biden, I'd want to study his history more, to find out if he's being used perhaps as a tool for manipulation rather than a real campaign, which he might have been used for in the Edwards campaign too, if my suspicions are true.

It's not for me about "forgiving" Biden for that bill. It's a matter of trust. I feel Bernie at this point is the only candidate that people can trust with what he's saying and what he will do. We've learned the hard way too many times over the last few decades, that trust is a hard characteristic to find in any of our presidents we've had over this time.

[JDPriestly]

47. Biden = Trojan horse for the banks.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

The protection that Obama has given to the banks has created a lot of problems for our country and made our economy, especially at the local level, very vulnerable.

We just can't afford another friend of the banks as president.

We need a president who will honestly enforce the regulations we have in place on Wall Street and the banks and maybe try to add some.

Biden is not the man of the hour. He is too close to the banks.

Please be sure to read this. He voted for the bankruptcy bill that makes it almost impossible for students to discharge their education debt in bankruptcy court. Meanwhile, Trump can discharge his corporate debt in bankruptcy court with no problem. No to Biden. No to anyone who voted for that bankruptcy bill.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

The student debt issue is not personal to me, but I see it as a major source of injustice in our society that should be ended and can be ended without throwing out the entire capitalistic structure of our country.

Ending student debt and funding education from tax revenues is necessary if we are to have anything approaching equal opportunity. College, trade school, post-secondary school is the equivalent of high school 40 years ago. You have to have that certificate or degree to get a decent job. Post-secondary education, whether it be a school for haridressers or a PhD should be paid out of tax revenue. That's the basis for economic equality. The wealth of your parents should not determine whether you graduate from college with a big debt or not.

This is not a personal issue for me. This is a justice issue.

[davidpdx]

137. I agree

At the same time if Biden runs, I'll welcome him to the race, but won't support him. I like Biden and have no ill will toward him. I've already chosen my candidate and I'll stick with Sanders.

[Maedhros]

49. Putting Warren in the Vice Presidency behind Biden would effectively neutralize her.

A Biden/Warren ticket is a disaster, and I would not vote for it.

[JDPriestly]

52. Biden is know for his close relathionship with the credit card industry.

He is a Trojan horse for the bankers.

There candidate, Hillary, is falling like a stone in the ocean. They are looking for a surrogate.

That is why Biden is being pushed.

He would not make a good president.

He has a great personality, but not the strength we need to stand up to the powers that be and that are wrecking our country.

I like him. I don't want him to be president.

Read this. Warren would lose her credibility if she ran with Biden.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

Besides, Biden strikes me as rightfully tired. He has earned his stripes. He should rest a bit. He is a statesman, but I don't think he has the kind of energy we need in the White House right now.

Our country is very angry. The good jobs got flushed down the drain with NAFTA. And now, Biden, who is a member of the administration pushing the TPP wants to push the final jobs we have left into the Asian Pacific with the TPP.

Biden is part of the political crew that wrecked our economy. I don't think he is a good choice to lead our country as we face increasing economic competition from the entire world. The BRIC nations constitute a large part of our planet. We are small, even NAFTA's geographical area is not that large compared to the BRICs. We are entering a new world. We do not need old ideas to meet the challenges of this new world.

And the Republicans are drawing their last gasping breaths. But one thing the Republican politics of the moment are making clear: it is not just Democrats that are sick of the status quo; it is not just Democrats that are unwilling to vote for the remnants of past administrations -- the popularity of Trump grows out of the discontent and anger and insecurity that Americans feel about jobs and their lives.

So does the horrible police brutality and injustice that the BLM movement is talking about. That police brutality is the expression of fear and anger -- and I don't see Biden responding effectively or even understanding just how deep that fear, anger and insecurity is.

I do see and hear Bernie understanding that fear, anger and insecurity. In every speech he gives, he is responding to it.

Biden would not have run the second term with Obama had he read America right. He would have set out on the path that Bernie is taking.

I'm going to stick with Bernie. I think he can win.

Bringing in Biden at this late date -- a losing tactic. Even if he were to win the presidency, he and the country would lose. He again would take corporate money and owe all kinds of debts to corporate America rather than to ordinary America.

Not a winning proposition.. Not at all.

[cascadiance]

59. I think it should be clear that we support Bernie not because we are "anti-Clinton"...

... which some here theorize why Biden would be a better solution we'd vote for because "he's not Clinton that we supposedly hate". The reason we support Bernie is that we want CHANGE away from this corrupt corporate-owned government we have now. Clinton doesn't give us a solution, and many of us feel that Biden doesn't either. For us as Democrats and other progressives, Bernie represents that hope of fixing this corruption, and Biden entering the race, even if he had some form of "preannounced" VP relationship with Elizabeth Warren, won't get our support either.

One could also say that Republicans, as misguided as they are in many ways, have similar sentiments in supporting Donald Trump, who they feel is also trying to fight this "corrupt corporate-owned government", since they see that Trump is the only choice they have which isn't being bought by corporate money too (since he "owns" himself).

It's a general feeling amongst all Americans that they need someone not owned by corporate money running our country now. Until party leaders on both sides realize this and let the constituency get their choice, the party that doesn't is likely going to lose the general election, when the party that does nominate someone who isn't beholden to 1%er campaign money gets out heavy voting for their candidate in the GE, and the party with the corporate owned candidate will have a lot of its voters staying home.

[wilsonbooks]

120. I agree. I was an early supporter of Warren

because I thought that if she ran she had a good chance of winning. I have always liked her positions on bank regulation and reforming wall street. If she wanted to run she should have run. To be on the ticket with Biden is to compromise her positions and I an Sick of politicians who compromise their convictions for the sake of political expediency. I am all in for Bernie.

[Mike Nelson]

9. Kiss of death...

...if Joe says Elizabeth is VP choice before winning the nomination.

[Zorra]

11. The idea that Sen. Warren would even consider being VP under a centrist is ludicrous. nt

[Gothmog]

23. This is a rumor from the National Review

It is being pushed by the RWNJ blogs. I have yet to see one non RWNJ source on this story

[leveymg]

31. It was reported yesterday in all the major media. They aren't all RWNJ blogs.

Rightwing NJ?

[JDPriestly]

39. Biden is too close to the banking industry to attract Bernie supporters.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

[leveymg]

46. I'm not expecting Biden to be the next Bernie. Biden and Warren would be a strong ticket,

one that I could see myself supporting without twisting myself into an ethical pretzel. One that has a clear probability of winning in the General.

[JDPriestly]

71. Bankers will love that ticket.

It compromises Warren so as to silence her.

They should be careful.

Teddy Roosevelt was for his faults a great reformer. He fought the graft and corruption in the Republican Party of his day and was progressive in many respects.

But he was nominated as the vice president in order, he thought, to silence him. It wasn't a real job, he thought.

And then ---

The assassination of President McKinley in September 1901 meant that the forty-two-year-old had become President of the United States, the youngest in history. Leading his party and country into the Progressive Era, he championed his "Square Deal" domestic policies, promising the average citizen fairness, breaking of trusts, regulation of railroads, and pure food and drugs. Making conservation a top priority, he established myriad new national parks, forests, and monuments in order to preserve the nation's natural resources. In foreign policy, he concentrated on Central America, where he began construction of the Panama Canal. He also greatly expanded the United States Navy and sent the Great White Fleet on a world tour to project the United States' naval power. His successful efforts to end the Russo-Japanese War won him the 1906 Nobel Peace Prize.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

Enough said.

Theodore Roosevelt was one of our greatest presidents. Often overlooked, he was quite amazing and was the uncle of Eleanor Roosevelt who became the inspiration for many of Franklin's best moments.

I do not, however, think that Warren should run with Biden. Biden is a nice guy, but completely sold out to the bankers. Maybe I am wrong, but she would have to explain herself because she would seem to be betraying everything she has stood for all her life if she teamed up with Biden. Nice guy, but he has made a lot of political mistakes.

With Bernie, we have one last chance to show that money does not rule in our country. Maybe it does. Maybe that is why so many DUers don't back him and prefer candidates that take the funding that Citizens United permits.

Bernie Sanders is the best candidate. And I hope to vote for him.

[leveymg]

73. I'm with you, particularly the last paragraph

Bernie Sanders is the best candidate. And I hope to vote for him

[JDPriestly]

41. You are right. Read this.

Her credibility would be shot if she teamed up with a friend of the credit card industry like Biden.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

[Zorra]

114. Yes, thanks. That's a big part of why I believe Biden/Warren is impossible.

I believe Biden knows Clinton is going down fast and is looking for some way to save the MIC neoliberal political establishment from a major dismantling by a President Sanders.

Can you imagine the DNC forced to come to grips with Bernie as the nominee? What fun!

[JDPriestly]

115. From what I have read on DU, some of them would not be very supportive.

We need to be getting candidates ready to run for Congress and local offices.

That's what we need. And we need to learn from Bernie's history and example.

Stick to the issues. Don't get into personal quarrels. Don't get discouraged if you lose your first election runs.

[big_dog]

125. nothing is impossible in party politics :)

Last edited Tue Aug 25, 2015, 12:17 AM - Edit history (1)

[ibegurpard]

12. lol

Warren would just ruin any "outsider" credibility she has if she were to go along with this.

[ram2008]

21. But she would also lose her chance at higher office if she didn't

Unless it were a Sanders/Warren ticket, although I don't think that's as balanced as a Biden/Warren one tbh.

[cascadiance]

51. I conjectured why Sanders/Third way ticket would make Sanders an assassination target...

... rather than be a "balanced ticket" that some say would be good to win the election.

Anyone stop to think that perhaps a Biden/Warren ticket might also make Biden an assassination target as well, for some very extreme left elements out there that also might be willing to go to extremes to put someone like Warren in charge rather than Biden? I'd like to think that wouldn't happen and is probably less likely than Bernie being offed if he were to take a Third Way VP, but it's something to still consider a possibility.

Though I would love someone like Warren as president, if it happened this way, it would be a VERY BAD thing for this country then.

[cali]

87. if she wanted the presidency she would have run. that simple

[JDPriestly]

38. Biden is noted for his links to the credit card industry; a Trojan horse for the bankers.

Warren called Biden out in her autobiography as one of several high-profile Democrats who championed bankruptcy legislation that helped her make her name in Washington. In 2001, with the help of Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., Warren had just succeeded in stopping a banking-industry-backed bill that would have made filing for bankruptcy more difficult.

"The Senate was evenly split between the two parties, but one of the bill's lead sponsors was Democratic powerhouse Joe Biden, and right behind him were plenty of other Democrats offering to help.

"Never mind that the country was sunk in an ugly recession and millions of families were struggling — the banking industry pressed forward and Congress obliged. ..."

That effort again failed, but the bill eventually succeeded in 2005, with Biden's vote. And that vote haunted him in the coming years, particularly as he ran for vice president while the nation edged into financial crisis. As journalist David Cay Johnston asked of Biden in a 2008 piece, "How does the 2005 bankruptcy law fulfill your Constitutional duty to 'promote the general welfare,' as it applies to those who through accident, serious illness or layoffs cannot repay their unsecured debts? How does it help resolve the current mortgage crisis?"

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

Warren would have some explaining to do if she ran on his ticket. A good way for the banking industry to silence her, that's what it would be.

[SonderWoman]

13. Biden has no constituency and got 0.9% in Iowa.

[madville]

26. He's around 10% in Iowa right now

And not even declared. Good sign and quite an improvement.

[big_dog]

133. The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep...

n/t

[Gothmog]

15. What is the source? I saw this on the National Review

I have not seen this speculation anywhere else yet except for very conservativie blogs. See http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422951/biden-warren-ticket-2016 I somehow do not trust the National Review on being in touch with Democratic party workings.

I just look and a number of the right wing nut job blogs are pushing this concept.

[leftofcool]

19. And yet DUers fall for it like flies to honey.

[Gothmog]

24. There was no sourcing to the OP

I wonder why?

[ram2008]

64. I've added some sourcing for you

Although most is based on political knowledge/strategy.

You have inside sources saying:

1) Biden only wants 1 term

2) He's meeting with Elizabeth Warren

3) He's leaning toward a run and President Obama via his press sec said selecting Biden was the best thing he's ever done and if anyone could mount a national campaign, it's Joe.

Given these trial balloons it's safe to say that Biden strategists are deliberately floating the idea of Biden running for the nom with Warren as VP. Also especially when you consider the parties desire for a Woman to be Pres, but the reality that Clinton just has way too much baggage. A Biden/Warren puts Warren up to bat in 4 years, holds on to Sanders/grassroots energy, and preserves Obama's legacy. It kills every bird with one stone. Pragmatically this is the way to go.

[leftofcool]

88. You do understand that if Biden were running, he would not be meeting with Warren?

He would first meet with the President, then he would meet with the DNC, then as close as he and Hillary are, he would meet with her. Warren would not even be a factor.

[ram2008]

95. He's running

It doesn't matter what order he meets with the power brokers. He met with President Obama today, just hired an Edwards campaign alum for his comms director, and has not pushed back on any of the running rumors.

Warren is a huge factor more than Hillary, she's the gatekeeper to the progressive base.

It's almost a given that he's going to run, whether or not he picks warren could be debatable.

[leftofcool]

97. Oh boy! You really don't know what is going on do you?

[ram2008]

101. I really do

All the evidence points to a Biden run.

Look forward to you eating crow in the weeks to come .

[leftofcool]

102. Well, I suppose you have not seen all the news

I welcome Joe to the race if he wants to run. He and Hillary will the the top Democratic candidates.

[OilemFirchen]

110. "You have inside sources saying"

C'mon. Give us some names.

Such a tease.

[Autumn]

25. White House Press conference today. A Biden possible run was asked about by a reporter

and from the response by the press sec I think it's a real possibility. Press secretary said Biden could make up his mind possibly by Oct. Another question about Liz was asked but I missed most of that. I was having lunch at a sports bar and the TV was on.

[Autumn]

18. I watched the presser. I think Biden will run, Obama will support him and Biden's

meeting with Liz was IMO about something else but Biden running was part of the discussion from what I gathered . I don't believe she will run as someone's VP.

[askew]

34. That's my take as well.

I think Obama backs Biden and Hillary is SOL. She had been running as Obama's successor and her base of support was AAs. Expect a lot of that to transfer to Biden, if Obama endorses.

I don't think it impacts Sanders much because a lot of his supporters aren't going to switch to Biden even with Warren as VP.

Hillary is left with a base of white women Dem voters and Latinos. I expect O'Malley to make inroads into her Latino base as he gets higher name recognition. He is by far the best candidate on Latino issues and has been getting glowing Spanish-language press. Hillary, on the other hand, is getting hammered over her cruel comments about sending child refugees back to Central America.

I'd love to know how the golf game went between Obama and Bill. If Obama was planning on endorsing Biden and Bill knew, I bet it was ugly.

[Autumn]

45. He was very clear that Obamas believes his choice of Biden to his team was the best thing he had

ever done politically and the press sec kind of hinted that Obama might endorse. I think if team Hillary watched this conference they are not very happy.

[askew]

48. Which as an O'Malley fan that makes me happy.

I have to wonder how quickly we'll see Debbie W-S lift the exclusionary rule for debates after Biden gets in. There is no love lost between Debbie and Obama so she wouldn't do it because Obama asked. But, Hillary is going to need to get on a debate stage and beat Biden soundly in a debate in order to not start losing support quickly.

[short circuit]

132. Uh. Bernie can beat them soundly in debates

and leave both of them in the dust.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. I'd like to see Biden explain his history of boosting the Drug War, authoring the RAVE act, etc.

before I'd consider supporting him in the primaries.

Joe Biden loves him some drug war. 4 states have legalized marijuana, more are likely to. How do we know as POTUS he won't send troops into those states to round up everyone who has a bong?

[askew]

40. I think we are more likely to hear an answer from Biden than we

are from Hillary on why she supported the 1994 crime bill. Why she advocated for harsher criminal justice laws including death penalty and mandatory minimums in her Senate runs and attacked Obama from the right on criminal justice.

Not a single candidate running has a clean record on criminal justice. O'Malley and Sanders have addressed their past and offered comprehensive criminal justice reform bills. Hillary hasn't done either. We'll see what Biden does.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. I agree with that.

I think Hillary's plan all along has been to skate by on meaningless platitudes about "empowering communities and familes", avoid giving actual specific policy answers like the plague, and nab the nomination by default.

Not exactly inspiring shit.

[askew]

50. One of the reasons she is falling in polling.

Because all we hear from her is that her email server was legal, she likes being a grandma and her mom had a tough life.

They are airing the stupid Dorothy ad on a constant loop already in Iowa. It isn't going to move any numbers. Almost everyone loves their mom. That doesn't mean they should be president.

[murielm99]

54. ALL we hear?

That is simply not true. She has been out with people at events and meetings. She has been discussing her positions and policies with groups over a period of weeks.

You just haven't been paying attention to anything but dirt.

[askew]

62. She's done the bare minimum as a candidate.

She's held a few events and dropped some platitudes. Released one full issue platform (though it wasn't very good) and that's about it.

She's pretty much a joke candidate right now.

[murielm99]

66. She leads every poll.

If you were interested in the truth, you would see what she has been doing, and her positions. It is clear that you have made up your mind not to do that.

[murielm99]

77. Joke candidate?

If I said that about Bernie, I would be alerted and the post would be removed.

Support your candidate without tearing down other Democrats. If you can't do that, maybe he is not worth supporting.

The joke candidates are on the other side, in the Repubbie klown kar. They include Christie, Jindal, and Cruz. There are so many others I have lost track of them. They are the enemy, not our fellow Democrats.

[Warren DeMontague]

98. seems like the main activity of Hillary supporters in this forum is rambling, ad hominem attacks on

Sanders supprters as a group. Last I checked, the sanders people are en masse "wealthy white male libertarian teabag volvo driving archie bunker racist oppressors of the subaltern middle aged listeners of classic rock" or some utterly ridiculous shit.

But, yes, let's not make fellow democrats the enemy, shall we?

[Warren DeMontague]

63. right. Please elaborate on any specific policy proposals she's made.

I'd be very interested to hear them.

Going "mmm-hmmm" when someone hands her a corndog or waving away a mom whose toddler has seizures that can only be stopped by medical marijuana, isn't "discussing positions".

But, then, the bubble camp Hillary seems to be existing in, is sort of phenomenal. That's how you get arguments like this, where media matters complains that "Hillary spoke about policy positions and all FOX News heard was her accent"

Gee, that sounds bad, and unfair. But if you actually watch the clip of HRC's speech, you see that the "policy positions" HRC supposedly brought up were things like "we need to restore civility to our dialogue".

Guess what, camp Hillary: That's a nice sound bite, but it is NOT a "policy position".

[murielm99]

67. Clips on the news are ALWAYS sound bites.

That is the nature of today's news.

Google is your friend. Do some in-depth research. I am not going to do your work for you.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. bull.

she's avoided going into the details of specific policy proposals like the plague. Voting reform, that's about it.

She has time to change that, of course, but let's not kid ourselves.

[murielm99]

79. Bull?

That's your answer? My, what deep political analysis.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Right. Sort of like how "I want to empower communities and families"

Is a bold wonkish slate of leadership-minded specific policy proposals.

[underthematrix]

22. Oh I would love a BIDEN/WARREN ticket.

Perfect ticket

[leveymg]

35. There's no such thing as a perfect ticket. This one could win, however.

HRC is damaged goods. Bernie is still my choice. The rest have gotten no traction, so far.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. IF (big IF) Warren is on the ticket with Joe, would hafta give em serious consideration. For now, it's Bernie all the way!!!

[JDPriestly]

32. Biden is a Trojan horse for the banking industry.

I certainly hope Warren would not fall for something like this. It would hurt her reputation badly to pair up with a defender of the banking and credit card industry like Biden.

Warren called Biden out in her autobiography as one of several high-profile Democrats who championed bankruptcy legislation that helped her make her name in Washington. In 2001, with the help of Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., Warren had just succeeded in stopping a banking-industry-backed bill that would have made filing for bankruptcy more difficult.

"The Senate was evenly split between the two parties, but one of the bill's lead sponsors was Democratic powerhouse Joe Biden, and right behind him were plenty of other Democrats offering to help.

"Never mind that the country was sunk in an ugly recession and millions of families were struggling — the banking industry pressed forward and Congress obliged. ..."

That effort again failed, but the bill eventually succeeded in 2005, with Biden's vote. And that vote haunted him in the coming years, particularly as he ran for vice president while the nation edged into financial crisis. As journalist David Cay Johnston asked of Biden in a 2008 piece, "How does the 2005 bankruptcy law fulfill your Constitutional duty to 'promote the general welfare,' as it applies to those who through accident, serious illness or layoffs cannot repay their unsecured debts? How does it help resolve the current mortgage crisis?"

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

Biden's personality is a lot more pleasant than Hillary's, but essentially Biden is more of the same when it comes to the TPP, the environment, and especially Wall Street and the banks and student debt, jobs, etc.

Bernie is the only one really taking on and facing the problems that are besetting ordinary Americans.

I would be very disappointed if Warren ran with Biden. I would wonder about how she could do such a thing.

[leveymg]

37. My Congressman, Jim Moran, also voted for the bankruptcy bill. Bad move, but I voted for him again.

Nobody's perfect. Some are just too damaged and compromised to win in a nationwide General.

[JDPriestly]

53. Warren strongly opposed that Bankruptcy Bill.

Read this.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

[leveymg]

65. Read it. If Warren can still deal with Biden, I guess I might be able to.

I was familiar with most of this, including Biden's close ties to MBNA, DuPont and other Delaware corporate holdings. Joe isn't my first choice, but he's not likely to get a Republican elected President if he runs. If Warren is on the ticket, that makes it much more palatable.

[JDPriestly]

82. Not for me.

Biden takes money from bankers. That ends the discussion for me. I saw too much suffering, too much anguish and too many losses as a result of the housing bubble and inevitable crash. We still have so much insecurity in our economy. I wish I could tell you what I am seeing around me. People losing their jobs. Older people who have to pay rent every month and barely have enough to do that. It's pretty bad out there still.

Meanwhile, although we have not yet recovered from the blow that NAFTA has dealt to our job market, the Obama administration including Biden is trying to push us into yet another job-sucking trade agreement, one that will result in our industrial and those service jobs that are amenable to it being outsourced in even greater numbers to countries in which people earn pennies on the dollar in wages.

What a profoundly anti-American idea.

And the trade courts. People don't understand what they can mean to our country, what a loss of control over our resources, our clean water and clean air, our national and state parks and our environment in general the trade agreements and the courts they propose will present.

Oh, well. ignorance is bliss. Knowledge is --- well, not always pleasant.

[JDPriestly]

61. I would not vote for anyone who voted for that bankruptcy bill.

It makes a broad range of loans -- education loans invulnerable to bankruptcy court decisions.

What a cruel fate for so many people.

I used to go through complaints in the federal court in Los Angeles -- it invariably included a big stack of complaints against kids being taken to court for failing to pay back student loans.

That bankruptcy act is anathema to me. So many people caught in a life of debt.

Creative people, generous, kind people. The MBA types probably (I'm assuming) get jobs that permit them to pay back their debts. Not so the liberal arts, education majors, the kids who don't finish school.

If a member of Congress cannot consider what the human cost of his votes his, what his votes will mean for the lives of the people, the ordinary, little people that they affect will be, he does not get my vote.

I am lucky that Xavier Becerra is my congressman. He was the first in his family to graduate from college I believe. And Stanford at that. He has the interests of the people at heart when he votes. I do believe that.

No. I would not compromise my vote on a candidate who does not do right by the American people. We are at a crossroads. We have to learn to care about each other, about our fellow
Americans and not just care but vote and act as if we care. Otherwise our country will dissipate into violence, anger and hate.

The BLM movement is calling us out. As we treat our black brothers and sisters, we treat ourselves. As banks treat the poor, the bankers treat themselves. It takes time, but as my family would have said a generation ago, "The chickens come home to roost." That's kind of a farmer's take on karma.

What goes around comes around. Biden is a the dream of the banking industry. If they can't have Hillary -- wife of the star of the Glass-Steagall take-down of our economy, then they will throw Biden at us. Won't work for me.

The BRIC nations become a stronger force on the international scene by the day. We should not be responding with a candidate hand-picked by the credit card, banking industry.

[Skwmom]

33. I don't believe this. Clinton is his more likely VP. n/t

[askew]

42. No way Hillary takes a backseat to Biden.

She is going to fight until the bitter end for the presidency. I think she is just way too flawed of a candidate to pull it off though.

[kenfrequed]

44. It isn't going to happen

It is only a discussion to keep alive the idea of Biden running for office thus keeping the undecideds undecided as long as possible to stall out any of the candidates currently running from gaining momentum by gobbling them up.

Biden is probably doing this as a favor to some of the establishment democratic strategists that happen to be supporting Hillary. I doubt the Hillary campaign itself would do this sort of thing.

[Cosmocat]

118. oh for fucks sake, here we go again

I don't want to see Biden do this because his heart just is not in it, he isn't prepared to balls out campaign and I don't want to risk his possibly winning the nomination and getting into the general and not giving it 101 percent.

But, Joe Biden ain't some cut rate stalking horse to prop up Hillary ...

His ego wants him to do it, that is it in a nutshell.

This is the kind of fantastical shit that earns all of the things people say that get Bernie supporters acting like wounded victims.

[magical thyme]

55. Ri-ight. Because Warren is going to walk away from all her principals to play 2nd fiddle

to Biden, who has historically supported everything she is fighting against. whatever are you smoking?!?!

[moobu2]

56. EW will endorse and campaign for Hillary or else she wont have much of a future.

She isn't that stupid.

[magical thyme]

60. so Biden is that stupid? And what's keeping her from endorsing Hillary now? nt

[leftofcool]

92. Biden is not stupid and Warren had already sent a letter to Hillary encouraging her to run

[magical thyme]

105. Encouraging somebody to run does not equal an endorsement. nt

[leftofcool]

108. I never said it was an endorsement.

Hillary has plenty of endorsements and most of the Progressive Caucus are among those. That should tell you something.

[leftofcool]

89. Correct!

[cali]

91. why would Warren have no political future if she doesn't support Clinton?

Are you suggesting Hillary would play dirty tricks because she's that vindictive and petty?

[leftofcool]

94. I didn't see anyone say anything like that or suggest it.

[cali]

100. it's right there. the poster says flat out that if Warren doesn't endorse

Clinton, she has no political future. At the very least that suggests Hillary would marginalize and undermine her.

[leftofcool]

103. Actually, no it doesn't.

But you feel free to see what you want to.

[ram2008]

68. She wrote a letter expressing her desire to see Hillary run

We like to think of Warren as some sort of Saint, but she's not.

Love her the most out of everyone, but I don't think she is a purist, she's more pragmatic and if she believes Joe is genuine with his desire for the Presidency, and his desire to do the right thing, then I don't see an issue.

[frylock]

113. No, she was signatory to a letter supporting a Clinton run..

which I believe was signed by all current female members of the Democratic congress.

[LettuceSea]

57. Re: concerns over his 1990s record w/ minority voters

While people like us will absolutely question his 'tough on crime' stance in the 1990s, IMO minority voters will be willing to forgive. What they see is a guy who's been loyal to the first black president, through thick and thin, for 2 terms. That's really, really big.

Having said that, if he doesn't own up to it, and gets funded by the wrong people (Prison for Profit lobby), I'd have a tough time supporting him, even if Warren is on the ticket. I want to see humility on this issue, like Bernie and O'Malley have displayed.

[m-lekktor]

58. not even remotely interested in that ticket.

if Warren has an "lefty cred" it will be wasted in the VP spot.

[HERVEPA]

72. Where do you get this stuff?

She didn't want to run president. Why should she want to be VP. Totally ridiculous.

[ram2008]

74. She didn't run because Hillary was 'inevitable'

Not because she doesn't want to be President. It would've been bruising for her had she took on the party establishment and challenged the woman who was supposed to be next in line. But along the way something changed, and Hillary is no longer inevitable.

I'm pretty sure Warren regrets not throwing her hat in the ring right now. Bernie is pretty much filling the vacuum that she left behind; I actually think that if Warren had run she would be polling in first right now.

[HERVEPA]

76. Yes, if she had run she might be polling first

No, no way in the world she wants to be veep.

[LettuceSea]

81. Well said and nice OP

She, like Joe, have to go about this in the most respectful way possible. They can't piss off the "IT'S HER TIME!" hornet's nest. That would be a lose-lose for all.

[cali]

75. here's why I have little enthusiasm for that ticket: As far as economic issues go

they cancel each other out. Biden's history with the credit card industry is not pretty. You're fantasizing about a co-presidency. As.so.political junkie you should know that.

Personally, I will not support such a ticket. Warren had her chance and took a bye. Had she run Bernie would not have. He stepped up and he's been pouring his heart out on this campaign. Parachuting in like this holds no appeal for me.

[ram2008]

84. Sometimes I wonder if Warren would've ever been able to do what Bernie is doing

It truly is amazing, Bernie has changed the whole discussion and does it in a way that is changing peoples minds who you'd never expect to be open to these ideas.

You're right that Biden has a history with the credit card industry, but at the same time he has been a fighter in the Obama admin from the left. People change... a lot, and I'm sure the death of his son also changed him a bit. If he gets the Warren seal of approval that would be ok with me.

I'm still supporting Bernie, but like I said before, I'd be ok with a Biden-Warren insurance policy. Clinton will drag us to a general election death... there's just no enthusiasm there, so I think I welcome Biden into the race. Also, there's a chance that he splits the Clinton vote giving Bernie room to go.

[cali]

96. a fighter on social issues, not economic issues. And we have, thankfully,

quite a few fighters for social justice but only a handful for economic justice.

[NorthCarolina]

78. Bernies response:

“I’ve had many, many meetings with Elizabeth Warren,”

The political world is buzzing about Joe Biden’s hush-hush weekend meeting with Sen. Elizabeth Warren, but on Monday, Bernie Sanders suggested it was no big deal.

“I’ve had many, many meetings with Elizabeth Warren,” the independent Vermont senator said when asked by NH1 News Network if the unannounced meeting, held at the vice president’s official Naval Observatory residence, had him worried.

http://linkis.com/www.politico.com/sto/Knb4C

[LettuceSea]

85. Short, sweet, yet very effective

Well done Bernie!

[MrMickeysMom]

86. I have to think she's not interested in this, but she's consulted by many...

You and I would be, too, were we as smart as Elizabeth Warren.

[MADem]

93. Someone explain to me how the guy in bed with the credit card companies somehow marries the

woman who wants to break up the banks. Please. I'd really like to know how this works. I've seen "strange bedfellows" but that takes the cake, IMO.

They are not on the same page there at all.

That would require a HUGE suspension of principles on the part of someone...so, which one gives up the ghost?

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/24/434331154/the-biggest-divide-between-joe-biden-and-elizabeth-warren

The Biggest Divide Between Joe Biden And Elizabeth Warren

.........that vote haunted him in the coming years, particularly as he ran for vice president while the nation edged into financial crisis. As journalist David Cay Johnston asked of Biden in a 2008 piece, "How does the 2005 bankruptcy law fulfill your Constitutional duty to 'promote the general welfare,' as it applies to those who through accident, serious illness or layoffs cannot repay their unsecured debts? How does it help resolve the current mortgage crisis?"

Another problem that arose for Biden in the 2008 race: It came to light that his son Hunter had received consulting fees from MBNA from 2001 to 2005 — at the same time Biden was supporting and voting for those bankruptcy bills.

In addition, Biden and Barack Obama parted ways on several measures aimed at either making bankruptcy easier or requiring more disclosures of credit card companies, as the New York Times also pointed out in 2008.

On top of all that, MBNA was the most generous donor — in terms of donations from its PACs and employees — to Biden's campaigns from 1989 through the 2010 race, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

There's a reason Biden would have such close ties to MBNA and other banking companies. His home state of Delaware is also home to many credit card companies, thanks to state laws designed to lure those companies into the state — most notably, one giving companies the leeway to charge higher interest rates. So, yes, he was championing credit card companies, but he also was arguably doing what lawmakers do: boosting his state's industries.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. You have found a candidate I am less likely to support than Hillary Clinton.

Or maybe another, Jim Webb already grabbed that distinction.

Congrats!

[MADem]

121. Biden not liking credit cards is like Sanders not liking dairy cows.

You gotta dance with the state what brung ya, I guess.

Biden-Warren is just a strange pairing to my eye.

All this persistent speculation is curious, though. Hard to know if it's just bullshit, or real. I can't tell anymore.

I thought that the mystery meeting was in regard to the vote on the Iran deal--Biden is President of the Senate and no doubt he's working the votes on behalf of the POTUS, and Warren was given a leadership role by Reid back in Nov of last year...that's where my head went--until everyone and their mother started beating another drum about this meeting and about how he hired a new commdir who used to work for John Edwards years ago (not a terribly good recommendation, really--Edwards had shitty control of his campaign messaging, it was awful....but, who knows?).


It's not a typical season, by any stretch, and the "new media" and hour-by-hour cycle makes little things big and big things massive. Hard to see what is real.

[Warren DeMontague]

122. I don't see Warren getting in, in any capacity.

I mean, I suppose if she's tapped for the veep slot, it might be hard to say no.... but she seems pretty solid on wanting to stay in the Senate for now.

It's like Al Gore. At a certain point you need to take people at their word (or their actions) that they're just not interested.

Biden jumping in seems a possibility, particularly if there is real doubt in upper party echelons about how Hillary is doing- not saying there is, or isn't.

It could also be the media looking for a story.

[MADem]

124. Yeah. It just seems too much of an odd pairing and she has said no means no.

Biden could be playing a stalking horse game, too--maybe not likely but I'd never put anything past anyone at this point in time. As I've said in other threads, the media are dumb as a box of rocks. If there's one "approved" speculation, they all jump on it and beat it to death--they're all so afraid of not being "in on" the story. If the 4th Estate is talking about ONE thing, they aren't really covering any other things. BIDENBIDENBIDEN drowns out "waah e-mail" or "waaah Benghazi" or what-have-you.

All bets are off, though, I'd say!

[leftofcool]

106. Wishful thinking?

Good Gawd! Joe meets with tons of Senators on a regular basis. He meets with a Freshman Senator who is his exact opposite and heads explode.

[MADem]

119. Well, he is the President of the Senate, and she has been given a leadership role.

I wondered if it wasn't in regard to upcoming legislation--but stranger things have happened. I think he's making a mistake if he runs; he's got too many weaknesses and he has a habit of speaking a bit too freely. He is smart as hell, though.

The only thing I know about this election cycle is that it is batshit crazy. There are people running that I never would have envisioned running if you'd asked me three years ago....and leading the charge on that score is that idiot TRUMP!

[Eleanors38]

107. Good analysis, though I prefer a Warren/Biden ticket.

[tularetom]

109. Absofrickinlutely not!!

Warren/Biden might be okay but why in the hell would we want to take the most effective Democrat around and marginalize her by putting her in the ceremonial VP job.

It would be a plus in that it would deal the final blow to the sputtering Clinton campaign, but sorry, I just can't see this as an overall positive.

[OilemFirchen]

111. This is so refreshing!

Glad to see the Clinton Calamity Club pick on the other old white guy for a change.

I'll have mine with extra froth, please!

[Puzzledtraveller]

116. On it's own, Biden expressing interest in the presidency

or it being perceived that he is would not be a big deal. If Biden is indeed beginning to discuss a run with his closest people I think the timing is of particular note.

[PowerToThePeople]

117. Oligarchs are grasping at straws

#FeelTheBern

[Romulox]

123. Biden is a "centrist" at best. He and Warren have little in common, ideologically. nt

[big_dog]

128. except the desire to be POTUS and protect the legacy of the affordble care act

[PoliticAverse]

126. It could destroy DU. n/t

[still_one]

127. I am sorry, but this is getting to be ridiculous. I guess too much free time on people's hands

[jfern]

129. Is there any indication that Warren wants to be VP?

Or is this just idle speculation gone crazy?

[big_dog]

134. Carl Bernstein wouldnt throw it out there if there wasn't some fire to the smoke

Biden agrees to one term, and Warren is veep.

[slipslidingaway]

131. Sorry, not interested in Biden ...

and I would lose respect for Warren if she went along.

That being said her progressive stance on financial issues is the only reason this trial balloon is surfacing.

We already have a candidate that is making inroads with the 99%, obviously the corporate Dem party wants someone who is more compliant.

The Dem party forgets that many of the younger folks are not married to a party and let's face it ... Biden is not too exciting to many in the younger generation, and the Dems might just lose a significant voting block.

My two kids, who are polar opposites in so many areas are both talking about Sanders, without any input from us old folks

But they are both part of the younger generation that have no 'party ties'

Biden, they would probably split the vote.

Sanders would get two votes.