2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhatever the polemics about Hillary are true or not,
Whatever did she cared of not about threats against Ambassador Stevens,
Whatever did she used a private server, witch is not illegal but now strongly discouraged practice now,
Whatever the facts are overacted by the RW which is trying by doing so to hide its far more important own crimes,
Whatever of of this,
It reveals one thing,
It means that integrity and care of transparency and open governement does not matter that much for Mrs Clinton that it counts for others prominents Democrats,
Otherwise she would have earlier recognised misleads about Benghazi attack.
Otherwise she would have reacted earlier when email story erupted and would have aknowledged she was uncarefull by using only private server. She is a very inteligent person. She was certainly aware it would be questioned one day or another.
And why didnt she adressed the conflicts if interests re philantropic activities with donors benefits while serving as top US diplomat?
Now she is fading in the polls. And there are two top reasons to this
The first is of course, Bernie who adresses people' s direct struggles abd stands up to Big Money with efficiently, thruthness and undeterrement.
The second one IMO, is that maybe American people do want someone as president who care about integrity and clean, open, transparent goverment and politics.
And sorry, Hillary Clinton can' t fullfill plainly this goal.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Expected it.
Its not about the controversies and the question whenhever its fact of fiction. Its about what all of this says about Hillary Clinton' s commitments when it comes to integrity in politics. Its not a "RW" memes.
Please stop seeing the world in black and white.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 29, 2015, 08:00 AM - Edit history (1)
I rec'd your OP.
Openness is not a trait of HRC.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)newfie11
(8,159 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)will show up and rec this freeper-worthy nonsense.
Meh...
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Seen enough here.
HappyPlace
(568 posts)There's are reasons for this and we, as a party, need to think long and hard about who can really beat the GOP:
Huh?
Pimping this RW nonsense helps how, exactly?
As far as the "we" is concerned, that ship is about to sail.
Between this crap and the BLM treatment, I'm not interested in lining up with these people.
Check that shit...
840high
(17,196 posts)bring out the usual BS. Thanks for posting.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)RW nonsense. Full stop.
"usual BS" what??
RW bullshit SHOULD be dismissed here. Why on earth would someone defend or drag this freeper-worthy nonsense on this board.
:
840high
(17,196 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)What was the wrong-doing here?
Explain your reasoning and your defense of this freeperesque stance.
This was nothing more than a RW witch hunt from the very beginning.
And again, what "usual BS?" Huh?!
quickesst
(6,280 posts)I really can't tell the difference anymore myself.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)From the racist attacks to attacking anything Clinton. It sure feels like Free Republic some times. No fear though I know that the admins will eventually take out the worst. I served 2 terms on MIRT it's eye opening, and I know they keep out the worst. I am not saying OP is one of them.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)GD: P is comedy gold for that very reason.
Sid
olegramps
(8,200 posts)I agree it is difficult to determine what site I am logged into lately. She is coming under attack for her campaign financing and now Benghazi? Is it actually feasible that a person could get elected by only accepting five and ten buck donations against the powerful Juggernaut that will be launched by the GOP's candidate? Regardless who is the Democratic candidate, the GOP will launch a smear campaign that will dominate the networks just as they launched against Kerry.
Seems that some on DU are eagerly adopting the GOP's talking points. Don't be surprised if Sanders gets the nomination when they attack him as a commie that is going to nationalize all the corporations and destroy the nation. They will make Clinton's defects appear insignificant compared to Sanders vulnerability. It will not be her fundraising, since they are in the same boat, but it will be e-mails and Benghazi even though they lack a shred of validity. That's the nature of politics and why so many don't want to have any part in it.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)said "what next attacking Clinton, Bengazhi?"
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)And, of course, the Rec's, mostly from new members....
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Face the facts, many Democrats and even more independents are not enamored with your candidate. That only makes them Republicans in the party-before-country Third Way Democrats.
The rest of us have our eyes wide open.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #43)
Name removed Message auto-removed
840high
(17,196 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)But the level of vitriol and the zeal with which it's posted around here, it only tells me that they know she will win the Democratic nomination. They know it and are helpless to stop it.
To date:
Hillary Clinton endorsements:
440 Super-delegates
94 (and growing) House Democrats
29 Democratic Senators
7 Democratic Governors
In May 2015, she received the endorsement of Democratic Governor Peter Shumlin - Governor of Vermont.
Barring another Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton is poised to win the Democratic nomination for president. And considering that figures don't lie, liars figure, the above are some cold, hard facts that are hard to swallow for some.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Response to rhett o rick (Reply #76)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
840high
(17,196 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Yes, it is what *BS* as in Bernie Sanders has been talking about all along!
DanTex
(20,709 posts)WILL turn such time as Bernie becomes the democratic front runner, he WILL face the same never ending, relentless onslaught of bullshit, and the same people gleefully advancing this shit against Hillary will be singing a completely different tune ...
LOTS of good reasons to support Bernie over Hill, and I am voting for him.
But, this shit of channeling the Rs efforts to destroy Hillary (as they do the head of the democratic party at ALL times) burns me to no end. It is bad enough that they get away with it generally, galling that democrats really hope on board to pick our nominee.
Same people piling on this shit will be screaming bloody murder when Bernie starts getting the treatment.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Unlike Hillary Clinton, Bernie runs fairly, centered in the issues that are the most important, he is not running FIRST on namerrecognition and ONLY THEN on the issues. Plus his campaign is not tied to Wall Street.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)Hillary is warmed over, but sorry, as far as pols go no worse than anyone else.
Piling on her is what the republicans want, and if she is successfully taken down , bernie will be next and you are living in a fantasy world if you think they wont gin up an endless stream of bullshit to drag him down, just like hillary.
You are all high and mighty about all this ginned up bullshit to slander hillary, but will ball about how unfair it is if/when bernie gets it.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I am reading a book, 'One Man Against The World: The Tragedy of Richard Nixon'. It's probably the tenth book I have read about him. Nixon and his henchmen did everything they could to destroy the campaigns of those Democrats they feared the most and left George McGovern alone because they desperately wanted to run against him because they were convinced he was the easiest to beat and they were right.
Anybody that fails to see where the impetus of this tsunami of criticism of Hillary Clinton is coming from see politics through the lens of a child. Whether a person is a partisan of Hillary Clinton or not it is the apex of political naivete to believe she is the Democrat the Republican least want to run against.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)In fact she is the ones Republicans wants to run again.
Not because she is weak. That is true on the issues that matters. But she is the strongest when it comes to influence. They want to run against her because if Repubs loose, it will not be such a defeat to them, as she will defend lobbyists groups whlm also RW worships. For instance, AIPAC. And pro wars.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)But Ann Coulter even admitted that they're afraid of running against Bernie Sanders! Surely Ann Coulter would not lie to us.
Best example of seeing politics through the lens of a child I've seen on DU. Incredible naivete.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)HRC is a progressive when it comes to economical issues.
When in office she will pursue the classic pro corporate economy measures.
That os WHY Rwingers would not mind if she is elected president.
Remember who derugulated WS and bankers in the 1990'.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)One Man Against The World: The tragedy of Richard Nixon, pg 183
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)are staged, eh?
What is your opinion about DNC Chair limiting the number of debates, wich favorites the now still front-runner, HRC?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)No. I am saying that the Republicans are terribly afraid of Hillary Clinton and don't want to run against her and that is why they are using their house organ, FOX NEWS, to destroy her candidacy which is abetted by the right wing press and Republican controlled investigation committees.
This is Dirty Politics 101.
As to the number of debates I couldn't care less... Let the party sort it out.
LuvLoogie
(7,009 posts)"Whether a person is a partisan of Hillary Clinton or not it is the apex of political naivete to believe she is the Democrat the Republican least want to run against."
Given your preceding paragraph, do you mean to say:
Whether a person is a partisan of Hillary Clinton or not it is the apex of political naivete to believe she is the Democrat the Republican most want to run against.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)The Repugs are scared shitless of her...Hate and fear are inextricably linked. The Repugs hate her because they fear her.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)She is the head and they are teying to cut it off ...
The fantasy is that they fear bernie so much they are trying to ignor him to death.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)But they cover Hillary as much as Trumpet and other Repugs.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)They blanket Hillary with negative coverage....
I should start a tally but I suspect the coverage is 3-1 negative.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)why is she still the frontrunner?
And those attack keeps being about politics. It is nothing compared to, for instance , saying that Obama is Muslim. Or that Kerry was a traitor.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)She has certainly took a hit in her favorables, and her head to head match up with Democrats and Republicans. The attacks have been effective but so far not effective enough...
The attacks on Obama and Kerry were despicable but there was more push back from the media.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)The media talks about Trump 75% of the time, Hillary 20% of the time (95% of that time babbling about the psuedo scandals serving the purpose of dragging down her negatives) and every other candidate combined about 5% of the time at this point.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Sanders is doing well in the polls now... But I would argue that is akin to a boxer looking a lot better at the opening bell than at the closing bell...The GOP and their lackeys in the press have been beating up HRC since March.
To believe Sanders would look the same if they were beating him up since March seems silly...
I know his supporters think it's a curse he is being ignored. One could argue it's a blessing.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)Bernie is great, I like hima lot and I think hes the real deal.
But, it is fantasical thinking w these people who think he cant or wont be negatively framed in a BIG way if he was the one wearing the bullseye like Hiallary has for a LONG time now.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Response to Cosmocat (Reply #8)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)don't reflect DU as a whole.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Starting to seem like the talking points memo went out.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
BooScout
(10,406 posts)[img][/img]
marble falls
(57,097 posts)Congressional grandstanding and malfeasance in cutting S180M from security budgets for State facilities around the world, or the e-mails which were handled legally and in a way done commonly for at least the last two administrations? Let alone the fact that Hillary Clinton was one of the best Sec's of State ever.
What we need is a real explanation from her regarding her stands on TPP, fracking Keystone, three strike laws, mandatory minimum sentences, death sentence, NSA intercepts, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, her evolution on marriage equality ....... all stuff she is at odds with the vast majority here on DU.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)She has a lot of questions left to answer.
marble falls
(57,097 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)marble falls
(57,097 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)your commentary is taken very seriously
BainsBane
(53,034 posts)Even in "France" 48 is more than double 22. http://www.ipsos-na.com/newspolls/pressrelease.aspx?id=6965
That means Clinton could lose half of her supporters and still beat Sanders.
She continues to have an unprecedented lead in both polling and endorsement, that's despite the continually onslaught of corporate media and RW ratfucking working to deliver this election to the GOP.
People must feel badly threatened to cravenly turn to right-wing memes like Benghazi. The smell of desperation is growing stronger by the minute.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)From 40 to 26 is a bit of a fading. But of course, such figures do not tell the whole story. Statistics can twist the truth just as much as any other written communication.
BainsBane
(53,034 posts)The question is numeric. Voting is simply a function of who gets the most votes. No matter how much you slice and dice it, 48 is way more than 22. Now I'm well aware many here think actual voters don't matter, but alas that is how elections are carried out.
Clinton has had an onslaught of RW media attacking her. The right and so-called left alike is devoted to taking her down and has done virtually nothing else but work toward that goal for months now. Yes, her support has declined, as happens to any candidate when faced with continual attack, yet she still holds a huge lead. NO ONE is running against Sanders. He has faced no criticism. Yet he is still stuck at 22, which is why we are seeing GOP scandals resurrected. If people were confident in his candidacy, they would be talking about what he has to offer rather than this "concern" over Trumped up bullshit about Clinton.
I am so looking forward to Super Tuesday.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)has been planted so much in people minds that a lot of them can' t think of other candidates.
That ends with part of Clinton supporters wishing from the heart a progressive agenda, yet keeping standig with her although they know she will pursue a Third Way one. And more centrist than Obama. For instance : it is clear she support banking deregulations. It is also clear that on foreign policy, would she be at Obama' s place, there would be American troops on Syrias soil and back on Irak' s. There wouldnt have been signed a deal with Russia to disarm Assad back in 2013.
BainsBane
(53,034 posts)That is blatantly false. The conceit of your imagining you can divine an alternate version of history is particularly appalling.
You have NO RIGHT to tell me how to vote, particularly when you don't bother inform yourself on the issues. Normally when confronted with such behavior, I tell people we all get one vote, and mine if for me and me alone to determine. Only since you say you are "French," that doesn't apply to you. The way I've seen the term progressive used of late, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with it or them. People have invoked progressivism in defense of gun proliferation, dismissal of social justice, efforts to discredit Black Lives Matter, special immunity for gun corporations, hundreds of billions to Lockheed Martin, and occupation of Palestine.
I am a leftist, and I am not persuaded by deception and misinformation. I am perfectly capable of looking at Clinton's voting record and her own statements on her policies, something you clearly have not done.
The more posts like this I see, the more committed I am to ensuring she wins. Thanks to you, I will now go make another donation to Clinton's campaign.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)who a political figure is. Behaviour in practicing political life, means used for career , degree of engagement ( are they in fact more serving common interest or self interest) does mattet as well, if no more sometimes.
And no, I am not telling who to vote for. Unlike DNC. They tell people who to vote for in GE before primary votes had formally begun. ( Debates limitation should have already opened eyes).
Response to BainsBane (Reply #32)
Post removed
Cha
(297,274 posts)Well, all is not lost.. that post got a hide. isn't that special.. he wants to purge DU.. only BS supporters allowed.
For the Jury.. that is a quote from a BS supporter.. I do not feel DU should be purged of Hillary supporters.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)On the other hand: she might (just might) be better at flipping senate seats in Arkansas, Missouri, and Louisiana.
valerief
(53,235 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Im not backing scandals. Im saying that beyond this those RW controversies reveals a major flaw Hillary has: considering open governement and politics facultative. No one can deny it.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Hillary Clinton has a problem when it comes to anwer image dammaging questions. Deal with it.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)Some of us are just concerned that if she becomes the nominee, she will not only lose the general election but drag a lot of qualified Democratic senatorial and congressional candidates down the drain with her.
And don't start in about "polls". She's been in the running for the 2016 election since the day after Obama was nominated in 2008. Everybody knew it and no other name was even talked about until Senator Sanders entered the race a few months ago. Of course she's going to poll well.
She's a cold fish, an unimpressive speaker and her policies consist primarily of generalities and platitudes that she seemingly can't be bothered to explain. And of course, being a Clinton, she has a whole cemetery full of skeletons in her closet that can easily be exploited by her opponents.
Sure, DU isn't the "real world". In the real world people dislike her a lot more than on DU. And they aren't "right wingers" either.
Nominate her at your own risk.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)They will tell you where is the device and IP I am logging on . LOL.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)enjoy having the party back in power that called France "surrender monkeys." Then you can rest assured everything is back to normal and the world can hate us again.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I see most of you do.
Garbage post and I am not surprised you took up this cause.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Now someone is throwing "Benghazi" into the hate fest, and not one person who calls themselves a Bernie supporter has stepped up to condemn this BS!
I like Bernie, but the way his so called supporters have gone bats shit crazy in their attacks on Clinton have really turned me off to his candidacy. I am not a Clinton supporter, but what is going on here is insane. Day in and day out the same posters try and outdo each other in their attacks on her. Who will get the most rec's today, and what will the prize be?
I keep asking myself why are they doing this? They are pretty much the same people who posted BS on a daily basis about president Obama, now they have turned their hate on Clinton. I would not be a bit surprised that if Bernie did make into the WH, he too would soon be thrown under the bus with all the other democrats they seem to dislike so much.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)That she is a felon. I said tyat BOTH on Benghazi AND email issues, she handled it poorly by not regognizing mismeads, and it diesnt mean she is a criminal, yet it means she moght feel so sure of her career préservation she doesnt bother to answer questions. It is PLAIN FACTS. No "RWtalking points".
Response to Andy823 (Reply #70)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Response to mylye2222 (Reply #81)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)POLITICAL MISLEADS.
How could she act like if, for instance email issue, no one would never ever ask question about safety of exchanges AND ties to donors and foreign policy?
Same with the Benghazi terror attack. How could she thought the death of Ambassador Stevens and his prior safety measures would not be questioned?
That is the mishandling I am pointing at.
Response to mylye2222 (Reply #84)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,034 posts)very badly.
mcar
(42,334 posts)Cause if the media says it, a Clinton shouldn't run. Even if it's not true.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)to where I have to change the channel when she's on....
the raising and shaking of one fist or another that seems to never stop..
Please - to her advisors - make her stop.
Response to mylye2222 (Original post)
Agschmid This message was self-deleted by its author.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Let Ambassador Stevers die for sure. I think it was a systemic mislead , a tragic one witch lead to lack of security on him.
HOWEVER she, as a responsible servicewoman should have straightly recognize SDs misleading concerning Ambassador Stevens protection. Would have she simply said " Yeah we failed to protect him " and explained why in details, the story would not have build up bigger and bigger. Gies the same with email issue.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)It is your stick.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)If the Ambassador' s pleas would have been heard.
And I stand by what I said. Dear Hillary : you can stop RW attacks by simply acting more humbly and recognize your misleads while serving at State. Both in Benghazi tragedy and aknoledge you should not have deled those mails. It would be a good debut.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)She has nothing to apologize for. Second the gop cut funding
Third your points are rw talking points. Stop trolling du with this garbage.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Second: game over. End of the party. You know what my post was about. It was beyond RW attacks. It was what HRCs handling of all of that revealead about her way of practicing public life, witch is a kind of disdain when it comes to transparency. We are a lot the percieve it like this, that somehow, judjing by her ACTIONS, she somewhat acts lile if she might be above scrutiny. And yes it is important.
NO "troll" " sexism" rw" racism or any dismissg raccourcis over here.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Hillary has to be more "humble". Yea, fuck that nonsense.
No matter what she does, the RW will be screaming bloody murder. And sadly some on the left will be right their to carry water for them.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)First, why did she, until recently avoided press questions? Plus it lead to know less about what she stands for
Second. Let' s take another case. The NSA Spying.Obama Administration directly adressed the issue and straightly stated it was wrong and that yes, worldwide leaders has been spied.
Whe you handle something wrong, the best thing at first is aknowledging you have been mistaken, not acting in a way you can be percieved as domewhone who wants to avoid the issue.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Nine investigations by an extremely hostile GOP and partisan Congress.
And they have concluded .... Hillary did nothing wrong. There is nothing for her to apologize for.
Although, I do think there are many on the right wing, maybe some on the left, who would collapse with orgasmic rapture were she to do so.
She did not send Stevens there to die. She did not watch him die on video while rubbing her hands with glee. She did not withhold support. He left the embassy to visit a consulate in a dangerous part of the country. She did not make him do that.
I'm not sure what the Benghazi nonsense has to do with the NSA spying. Nothing really.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)If it wasn't for Benghazi, Darryl Issa would be out stealing cars again!
Cha
(297,274 posts)couldn't be more wrong.
ismnotwasm
(41,986 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I figured out that you meant "Whether" when you typed "whatever." I tried to get past the other problems caused by writing in a non-native language. I'm sorry. I just couldn't.