Clinton campaigning "Above it All"

[Armstead]

Getting real tired of this non-campaign campaign.

Not sure if it's arrogance or trying to "run the clock out" because of fear. Whatever, she is running an "above it all" remote-control campaign that implies she's too good for the work those mere mortal candidates have to do. Limits herself to carefully controlled events.

She doesn't go on news talk shows like the other candidates. She pens in reporters like cattle in public appearances. Heck, even The Donald makes himself available to the press in unscripted interviews.

She has her pet DNC limit debates and issue repressive restrictions on the ability of other candidates to debate.

She sends surrogate out to say the nasty things she won't say herself against her primary opponents.

Sure she held a couple of news conferences under duress. Those didn't go so well. Maybe that's why.

[morningfog]

1. He has super delegates and the money to ride through

Super Tuesday and coast to the nomination, or so she thinks.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. Works well for me. Means a 2008 repeat. nt

[riversedge]

3. ha ha --Sanders has many surrogates on this board that perform this funtion...

and that includes your demeaning OP.


"She sends surrogate out to say the nasty things she won't say herself against her primary opponents."

[morningfog]

5. That's silly. DU is a virtual pub where the locals gather to

piss moan and argue. It has neligible influence in the broader political world. And supporters of candidates arguing and criticizing here is nothing like actual Clinton surrogates going on national networks to hit Sanders.

[riversedge]

9. Oh, give it a break. There are many ways to influence people and

month after month of repeating lies and muck against a Democrat takes a toll and if you do not believe that you have your head in the sand.

[morningfog]

12. There are maybe 1,000 people who frequent DU.

And by and large they are solidly committed to their candidate. Lies and muck, as you call it, have no measurable impact on the national race whatsoever. Don't flatter yourself.

[riversedge]

20. There is the Snowball effect.

[demwing]

74. And the molehill effect

which you're turning into the mountain effect.

[Romulox]

22. This is a "discussion forum". Nobody is a "surrogate" here, they are "posters". Hope this helps. nt

[Scruffy1]

26. Gee, I've been called a lot of nasty things, even been jailed and beaten a few times,but...

"surrogate" is pretty original. I'm waiting here in my hovel for my master to call, so I'll know what to do.

[cali]

31. sorry. super fail. that is not the definition of a surrogate.

A surrogate is a high profile perdon following the campaign script. I prefer the word McPherson, updated from henchman.


hench·man
ˈhen(t)SHmən/
nounderogatory
a faithful follower or political supporter, especially one prepared to engage in crime or dishonest practices by way of service.
synonyms: right-hand man, assistant, aide, helper; More
historical
a squire or page of honor to a person of rank.

[frylock]

46. Are you really comparing anonymous posters on a discussion board to members of Congress?

[Armstead]

50. We're just independent individuals

I've never gotten marching orders.

Not quite the same as sending out big name surrogates.

[jwirr]

56. I think you are missing the point. It is not just about surrogates. They

are only a part if it. It is mainly about her so called above the fray campaign. It is about the fact that she seldom says anything concrete about the issues personally. That she does not answer questions for the general media reporters and she like bush chooses her crowds.

[Scootaloo]

77. What puzzles me...

is when Clinton supporters want to disparage support for Sanders on DU, they sneer, "DU isn't the real world!" But then as soon as the talk turns to political surrogates, all this formerly "irrelevant" support for Sanders on DU is suddenly of great and vast consequence.

Why is that?

[Maedhros]

106. Because their arguments are wholly disingenuous? [n/t]

[Juicy_Bellows]

108. +1

[onehandle]

4. She's way out ahead and average Americans don't pay attention until late Fall or later. nt

[Fawke Em]

14. 7 points is way ahead?

You can blab about national polls all you want, but we don't vote nationally.

We vote in each state.

And, every time someone sets a bar that says Sanders can't beat it - he does, so far.

[onehandle]

16. Keep those eyes on New Hampshire and Iowa.

I've agreed from day one that he could win one or two.

Nothing has changed.

And still, there is no Obama.

[Amimnoch]

111. But.. but.. butt.. he's got big crowds and all that!

[fadedrose]

6. I'm probably wrong

but I think her advisors know that the more people see her speak in person, the less they like her. She has more appeal in small groups where she can act normal.

Badly worded, but you know what I mean I think.

[Dawgs]

15. You're not wrong. I saw her when she was running in 08.

It did not go well.

[Live and Learn]

7. Now this post I get. K&R nt

[Vinca]

8. Her handlers are keeping her in a bubble too much of the time.

She's so overscripted it's a rarity when you see spontaneous Hillary. It's too bad, too, because when she is "herself" she's very appealing.

[BooScout]

23. lmao

And has Bernie ever given a speech without his crib notes in hand? One day he is gonna drop them and forget where he is in his standard REVOLUTION speech and stomp off stage muttering 'if you don't want me here'.

[cali]

32. which he barely glances.at. you must agree with the rethugs about Obama using a teleprompter.

[frylock]

48. More herp and less derp, please.

[hifiguy]

75. I doubt that's possible,

and the derp is getting so thick here sometimes that you need a machete to cut through it.

[Armstead]

53. He goes on TV all the time and puts himself at the mwrcy of interviewers

And you don't have to fork over a few thousand bucks to attend a town hall meeting

[Z_California]

61. Are you kidding me?

Wow. You have no idea what you're talking about. I've listened to Betnie for years take calls from regular people on a weekly basis on any subject they want to talk about. He is informed, sharp, and unscripted. You shouldn't post what you don't know.

[Vinca]

78. Bernie is probably the most spontaneous politician I've encountered.

I've been a follower of his for years and gone to his rallies in the state next door when he was running for other offices . . . just to hear him. He's always spoken from the heart and has always been accessible for questions. In this election cycle, he's on the tube being interviewed all the time . . . unlike Hillary. And he gives his honest opinion whether you like it or not. I'm still waiting on Hillary to give us her opinion on the Keystone pipeline and the TPP.

[roguevalley]

103. Boos couture you are funny. everyone uses notes including

Hill. Good grief.

[JoePhilly]

10. "She's doing it wrong!!!!!"

That about cover it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. "I hate her guts and I will say it explicitly or implicitly."

That about covers it?


IRONY

[cali]

34. I think she's ethically challenged. I don't find that admirable.

[Ed Suspicious]

45. I "like" her just fine. I respect her political experience. She's OK in some ways.

Not as good as Bernie.

[Blue_Adept]

96. Everyone is ethically challenged

[Armstead]

54. I don't "hate hr guts" but I don't like her "above it all" style of campaigning

Someday you might learn the difference between disagreement/disapproval and "hate."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. A plebeian like me can never aspire to be as perspicacious as the denizens of this board

eom

[Armstead]

86. If you use a word like perspicacious you're plenty smart...

But you choose to overstate things at times.

Which is fine. I do that too.

But tossing around the word "hate" so freely is not very, er, well I don't know if "perspicacious" applies, but it is not very....whatever.

[roguevalley]

104. using hate is juvenile.

[JoePhilly]

112. She's "disgusting", "contemptible", and ...

a "whore" ... "but I don't hate her".

Its rather amusing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

114. Res ipsa loquitur

eom

[SouthernProgressive]

90. "Nothing disgusts me more" followed by a Hillay rant.

Yeah, it covers it.

[Doctor_J]

11. She is definitely running out the clock

Her record and platform are there for all to see, and they're pretty hard to justify when compared to Sanders and O'Malley. Her best hope is to hide, issue platitudes from a script, and rely on her gender, money, and "inevitably" to carry her home.

[Le Taz Hot]

17. "Above it all?"

Is that what they're calling it? More like the bunker strategy.

I mean how unlikeable does your candidate have to be before you start to ask yourself, "Why am I supporting her?" She's afraid of the media, she's afraid of the people over whom she wants to make decisions.

I love the, "She's better in smaller settings." Like $2500 fundraisers full of monied Blind Loyalists? Yeah, that's hard.

What the hell is she going to do with a Congress and Senate that REALLY hate her? Barricade herself in the White House?

[brooklynite]

18. It's neither...her plan was always to delay aggressive campaigning until the Fall...

enjoy the rest of your summer.

[frylock]

49. You never roll out new product in August..

everyone knows that.

[Armstead]

55. Well she might tailor that to the fact that the campaigns ae underway

But I guess when you have the coronation, er, primary already locked in you don't have to mess with such little details

[brooklynite]

71. Always nice when people who will never support a candidate want to give them campaign advice...

[juajen]

72. Oh my word, stop with the sour grapes.

[BooScout]

19. Don't ya hate it when women get arrogant and above themselves...

They should just stay home and bake cookies ane let the men handle all the decisions.

[beam me up scottie]

27. Pffft.

[neverforget]

28. Lol! Awesome!

[cali]

36. bravo.

[bvf]

42. Perfect!

[L0oniX]

59. Nailed it.

[Vattel]

79. nice strawman comic!

[Armstead]

57. Has ABSOLUTLY NOITHING to do with that

If she were male and doing it, I'd say the same damn thing.

Don't pull that sexist "sexism" strawman, er strawperson card on this.

[Z_California]

66. How did this one

Escape my ignore list? Fixed.

[leftofcool]

107. Yea, let's let the men rant and rave.

Or whine which is pretty much what they have been doing.

[Romulox]

21. Hillary is most popular when she doesn't speak much. That's her real problem. nt

[BooScout]

24. Yes, women should only speak when given permission to do so

They should stay home and bake cookies.

[bvf]

25. That was lame the first time around.

Pure straw.

[morningfog]

35. But is is just so damned easy for a lazy poster here to stir shit to toss that out everytime.

[bvf]

44. What gets me is that

the reference dates to 2007.

Didn't work then, either!

[hueymahl]

41. Please see post 27.

[Romulox]

47. What a lame distortion of what I said. You're not an honest debater. nt

[L0oniX]

63. /-[)!\|"

[askew]

29. She has also released the fewest # of specifics on any policy issue.

Where does she stand on criminial justice reform? Who knows.

Where does she stand on minimum wage? She won't give us a specific # but we should raise it. Does she want to tie it to CPI?

Does she support TPP? Keystone?

Does she support death penalty? She's been against it, for it, against it and for it in her career.

Where does she stand on for-profit prisons?

O'Malley and Sanders have told us in detail where they stand. With Hillary, we are supposed to just guess or wait for her to be crowned.

[lonestarnot]

37. 7-0

[NorthCarolina]

30. She's comfortably set into the media "front runner" bubble.

As long as the media continues to (a) sell her as the inevitable Democratic Party nominee, and (b) ignore the Sanders campaign other than the periodic "but, he won't be the nominee" or "he's a summer fling" (although the shelf life on that one is only another few weeks), she will continue to stay aloof. She knows she isn't likely to draw tens of thousands of supporters to a rally, so she much just keep things small and hope the media can work their magic to whittle the race down to the two Wall Street approved candidates, and deliver America the Clinton-Bush matchup that they've been planning and scripting since 08.

[lonestarnot]

33. I don't think AF recruits her age group.

[dreamnightwind]

38. She is running a highly managed campaign

and when the time is right (it's a little early), we'll see plenty of her surrogates and they will make tons of ad buys. Clinton herself will appear in carefully chosen situations intended to enhance her appeal to targeted demographics. She has a large organization, Correct The Record, headed by ex RW political hitman (his words not mine) David Brock, to both refute and initiate talking points.

It's a highly professional approach, a corporate one, one that I have no connection to. It may or may not be effective, we'll see. They are professionals, and corporations know how to get things done, their trouble is it's hard to appear genuine because the very nature of such a campaign is managing perception, and then of course there's the problem that the whole thing is outrageuosly expensive, and the people bankrolling all of this will be calling the shots if she wins.

I still think she has an excellent chance of being elected, her campaign infrastructure is like none I have ever seen, they've been working on it for a long time. So far though it's bumping along unevenly, but the main blitz is still to come.

[malthaussen]

70. FWIW, I think that's a very good analysis.

You know, there's an old saying "Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for IBM." But nevertheless, the Yankees don't lack for rooters.

-- Mal

[SoapBox]

39. She's in the Beltway Money Bubble.

I hope she continues.

And I hope she continues to get that sour look on her face when pressed about anything.

When and IF she goes big in public, Americans will be reminded of why they don't like her...she has been in the news for 30 years and we're over it.

She cannot win...and she will not win.

[joshcryer]

43. The low key campaign can backfire.

But it's not a terrible strategy, the longer she keeps it to quiet round tables the better her chances of avoiding huge criticism.

[thesquanderer]

51. "Ros garden" strategy didn't work so well for Carter.

But it's early yet.

[Gman]

52. I think its laughable when I see someone talk about Hillary and fear

I guarantee you, there is no fear whatsoever.

[Armstead]

62. Not fear of the boiught and sold process -- but fear of unscripted exposure

[Gman]

85. Every campaign has those fears .

But the best candidates handle it well and it's not a problem.

[99th_Monkey]

58. And it's ALL because of "Hillary-haters" like you, who won't stop

telling the truth. STOP IT now!!




ps - K&R

[malthaussen]

60. As I recall, Abe Lincoln ran on his record, too.

Which was pretty funny, since he'd only had one term as a congressman.

-- Mal

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. LOL ...

You are getting tired that the candidate you don't support (and, probably, won't support except for in the general election, perhaps, if she wins the Democratic primaries) is not campaigning in a manner you would like?

That's amusing!

[Armstead]

69. LOL I'd like to see something resembling an acknowledment that's not only....

about insiders and big bucks, and prefabricated inevitability memes.

I'd kind of like to see a bit of honest debate and public interaction and discussion of issues. And opportunities for otehr candidates to get some visibility.

If she holds her own and wins people honestly in a contest, fine. But this pre-detrmined script does not herald well for the future of governing, or maybe even winning the GE.

[Florencenj2point0]

82. your complaint is that she is not attacking Bernie?

what is anyone saying about him except that he is a socialist and the country will not vote for a socialist? That seems to be an opinion that Claire hold which is her right and she is hardly a spokes person for Clinton. Do you forget 2008?
Oh yes and she is being rude to the media...... GOOD FOR HER. Since when does the left love the media?

[1StrongBlackMan]

84. Perhaps, you responded to the wrong person ...

I have not registered a "complaint" ... I merely observed/noted that the OP indicates that they are tired of the candidate they do not support is running her campaign in a manner they do not approve of.

That's a lot like (imperfect sports analogy, here) complaining that your opponent keeps running a ball control offense; rather than, a wide open offense.

[Florencenj2point0]

92. yes..... I meant to reply to the Original post

[Historic NY]

65. Whats sad in 2000 there were only nine debates or forums ....

In the 2000 primary season Vice President Al Gore faced a challenge from former New Jersey Senator Bill Bradley. Bradly ran to left of Gore on universal health care, gun control, and campaign finance reform. Gore eventually trumped Bradley, winning all 50 primary states.

Their first debate was on Oct. 27, 1999. In the end they had 9 debates, quasi debates or forums.


People here think because there aren't any debates its a conspiracy of the DNC. In 2000 they offered them at least 40 possible debate slots, they balked at it. Some people here think the rest of the country is paying attention.....the only attention being payed to is that Jackass darling of the right. The 2008 season is completely different than now......the primary candidates got out there in small and large venues with their spouses in the months leading up to the October debates.

[Gothmog]

68. Sanders will not appeal to mainstream democratic voters until he shows viability

If you want mainstream democratic voters to take Sanders seriously, then lay out a path for him to be viable in the general election where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate will be spending another billion dollars. I keep asking for explanation as to how Sanders will be viable and the responses that I keep seeing at the Democratic Blue Wall is magical and that twitter/youtube are magical.

Sanders is not preceived as being a viable general election candidate. President Obama at this time was blowing everyone away with his fundraising and that fundraising ability made President Obama viable.

[antigop]

81. add +1 to the "Bernie is unelectable" meme counter. nt

[Gothmog]

83. Viability and/or electability is a valid criterion to evaluate a candidate during primary process

Again, if Sanders wants to appeal to more than a narrow segment of the party, he needs to show that he is viable in the general election. I have repeatedly asked for an explanation as to how Sanders is viable in the general election and some of the answers are based on the concept that money does not matter in politics.

[roguevalley]

105. viable is happening now. she is old tired news

[antigop]

110. just keep repeating the "Bernie is unelectable" meme. nt

[hifiguy]

73. She doesn't do "mixing" with the commoners

unless it's a Chimp-style micro-managed and pre-screened photo op now and then. Or answering questions, either.

There are important meetings to be had with important (read: RICH) people where deals are cut and understandings are arrived at.

Her campaign looks more like Nixon's 1968 and 1972 campaigns every day. Nuff said. Her duplicity and doubletalk also reminds me of Nixon.

[Avalux]

76. Instead of engaging the public and being real, she's hiding behind a wall of protection.

I think it's out of fear she's going to lose again. Her supporters need understand that it's difficult for her to overcome the perception of royalty and entitlement when her very actions contribute to it. Can't all be blamed on her enemies.

[Zorra]

80. If someone runs for POTUS as a Democrat, but runs solely to serve the interests of the 1%,

it makes sense to stay out of the light as much as possible.

[ismnotwasm]

87. Yawn

[Armstead]

89. Yeah that's what I say too

Could be a huge yawn until Mr. Bush or perhaps Mr. Trump ekes out a win because of a substance-free election.

[SouthernProgressive]

88. I don't see why people who don't support her keep having an issue with her campaign.

She is currently a frontrunner to the likes of which is very rarely seen. She has amazing Super Delegate support right now. Enormous amount of extremely impressive endorsements. On the dem side she is leading in donors in every single aspect. She is speaking to issues that matter to all of us every single day.

I do love the consistent theme about how she treats reporters. For those of us who have been around for a while, we know who these people are.

"She pens in reporters like cattle in public appearances."

That's better treatment than they should get from her and I can't for the life of me figure out why people who loathe her in the first place care about their poor little people of the press out there doing such a fine and outstanding job.

[Armstead]

91. Some of us have an issue with the elite telling everyone who is the next nominee

Yes Clinton may be popular in some quarters. But elections are supposed to be about having a choice. If the same old crowd uses their already outsized wealth and power to further tighten their grip, without even the illusion of a contest....yes some of us get bothered by that.

Yes reporters can be s---heads. But that[s part if the process. Other candidates have to go through that gauntlet, and there are actually enlightening and informative aspects of press coverage.

[SouthernProgressive]

93. "Yes reporters can be s---heads. But that[s part if the process."

No, it is not a part of the process unless a candidate wants to make it a part of the process.

"Some of us have an issue with the elite telling everyone who is the next nominee"

I could link to thousands and thousands of people showing their support for her who are solidly middle class or lower with respect to economics. You statement here can only be based in reality if you ignore a majority of people who vote for the democratic party. You literally have to ignore a majority of democrats in order to truly believe this is how it is going.

"there are actually enlightening and informative aspects of press coverage."

Yes, like the NYT flat out lying in a piece that was widely distributed. Now lets show them some respect. lol.

"But elections are supposed to be about having a choice."

Not one single person is limiting your choice.

[Armstead]

97. If you are correct about her wonderful qualities and appeal...

Then she should not be ducking the face to face compare and contrast with the other primary candidates.

Maybe a lot of those voters would see them together, hear them state their case and say "Boy I really like Clinton even more."

If that happens, so be it. But at least she get into the ring hnestly, rather than rigging the rules through her network of inside connections.

As for the reporters....Bernie had a couple of interviews that were fairly tough on him, and they managed to get him to go beyond his core message and address otehr issues and perceptions about him.

If Hillary is going to be tough enough to face down our adversaries in the world -- and the Republicans -- she ought to be able to handle a reporter or two.

[SouthernProgressive]

100. "If you are correct about her wonderful qualities and appeal..."

"Then she should not be ducking the face to face compare and contrast with the other primary candidates."

This doesn't make sense with respect to politics. All three of the people most talked about on our side are running completely different campaigns. I think that is great. They will be face to face six times and have been at the same forum multiple times.

"Bernie had a couple of interviews that were fairly tough on him"

Your issues are with the way Hillary is campaigning. I point by point made it clear that your issues were not real except to Sanders supporters and it is personal. You believe they must follow protocol. A belief I have problems understanding. What in the world does Sanders doing interviews have to do with Hillary? Why even bring it up? Hillary isn't chasing Sanders. Hillary doesn't need to campaign like Sanders as you feel she does. It simply wouldn't make sense.

"she ought to be able to handle a reporter or two. "

That is where you go way off base. I mean really far. If she doesn't do it its because she can't handle it. That thought process is not borne out of fact. It's really not even something that can be addressed because it is very personal to you. She thinks/knows they are fucking scum out to make it a tighter race between her and Sanders, not to report the truth. That is how they get paid.

[Armstead]

109. It's no really all that complicated

We're supposed to be living in a democracy, and in a democracy candidates present themselves competent with their opponents and let the voters decide who they prefer.

I know that sound Frank Capra idealistic. But I don't think we commoners should just sit back and let the Oligarchs program our elections to shut out any form of actual competition.

It will probably end up being a tepid Bush V Clinton squeal....Same old bullshit and the middle will continue to fade and the poor will contuse to get crushed. And Monsanto, Big Oil, Big Media (your stated irritant) and all the rest will keep the keys and drive the nation and planet into the ditch.

Personally, I'd prefer at least the illusion that we might have a slight chance to steer the Titanic away from the ever-melting iceburg.

[Blue_Adept]

94. So. Much. Projection!

[Armstead]

98. I wish I were in a position to choose to be above it all

But if I were, I still think I'd prefer to fight fair, instead of using my connections to artificially constrain the process.

[Blue_Adept]

99. Fighting fair always gets you what you want in politics.

Didn't we just have almost eight years of that after all?

[Autumn]

95. I'm not going to vote for any candidate who can't be bothered to

actually get out in front of the people, on the media and campaign every chance they get to answer questions, and explain their issues and share their vision with me. Lead, follow of get the fuck out of the way. Because her non campaign is not doing shit to GOTV. Name recognition isn't going to get anyone into the White House.

[HassleCat]

101. It makes sense

She is the presumptive nominee. The more she debates her opponents, addresses them, even acknowledges them, the more attack material she gives the Republicans. Her plan is to wait out Sanders and O'Malley in the primaries, limiting her attacks to those done by surrogates, and save the big effort for Donald Trump, Jeb Bush or whomever.

[oldandhappy]

102. August is always a weird month.

I am interested in Sept and Oct and people have to be more definite about themselves. And yes, I know, the pot shots will heat up. Sigh. We are so far from the actual election -- I respect Hillary for pacing herself.

[HereSince1628]

113. It will be interesting...Sanders is about to go back to his day-job

and campaigning for him will become a week-end gig. Clinton can have pretty much Sanders-free access to reporters looking for political stories during the week. I suspect that will be quite appealing resulting in us seeing more of her out in the field.

Up on the agenda as congress comes back from recess TPP. A chance for Sanders to make his campaign points via the Capital and a chance for Clinton to reboot a message re TPP that has more appeal than -ask me when I'm president-.