Being a peace activist is now bad, voting for an illegal war? acceptable.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

How many people died because Bernie filed as a CO during Vietnam? How many died in Iraq?

[randys1]

1. Must be Monday afternoon, and the smears continue, and the unnecessary derision

and divisiveness continues

Personally I think we have two great candidates, hell 4 if you include Martin and Joe.

[leftofcool]

2. What difference does it make?

Many good men, including my husband, served when their country called them to do so. Bernie didn't. I don't hold that against him any more than I did Bill Clinton. Some Veterans will, however. And they called Bill Clinton a draft dodger.

[cascadiance]

9. Far more vets LIKE Bernie for what he's done for them over the years...

... that Republicans and other pols have avoided.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/how-bernie-sanders-fought-for-our-veterans-119708

He's the guy responsible for many VA benefits, etc. that take care of our soldiers when they get back from us USING them to conduct our military industrial complex serving bloodbaths overseas.

Why would they vote against someone that works FOR them more than hardly any other politicians do!

As many have noted here, Bernie didn't AVOID being drafted like so many other deferrers did, that so many here choose to IGNORE instead of making him an issue. I give credit to vets being intelligent enough not to bite the hand that feeds them. Too bad some don't here.

[sibelian]

11. Bill won...

...

[leftofcool]

15. Yes he did in spite of what he was called.

That was my whole point.

[sibelian]

43. ...jolly good.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

37. And many brave men and women took to the streets to stop the war.

Bravery is about more than firing a gun.

[HassleCat]

3. Re-post

Here's what I wrote in response to a similar thread.

We had George W. Bush, who wanted desperately to be a "wartime president" to make up for the fact he was not a veteran. What? Not a veteran? What the hell you talking about, HassleCat?

A veteran is someone who serves 181 days or more on active duty, not for training purposes. Bush 43 does not qualify. He is not a veteran of the United States military. He also walked away from the last few months of his National Guard obligation, indicating he didn't take his military duties very seriously when he was younger.

So we have this president who pretended to be in the military to avoid Vietnam, and couldn't even hang around to finish his cushy gig, and he starts a huge, disastrous war by sending his Secretary of State on TV to lie to the public. We would have been far better off with a conscientious objector, someone who gave at least a little consideration to the morality of war, and who might not have been so insecure about his manhood he felt compelled to start a bogus war and kill half a million people in a small, defenseless nation, while killing 5k of own people and racking up a multi-trillion dollar debt.

So, no. There is no logic to this hawkish tendency to demand a veteran president, or suggest a CO will not rise to the defense of the United States when the moment comes. It's just blabbering from a military that loves war. When we had citizen soldiers, and we got them involved in Vietnam for ten years, the nation didn't like it because they perceived we would be drafting their grandkids if we didn't put a stop to it. So we professionalized the military, but they want to practice their profession, which consist of breaking things and killing people, as Mike Huckabee repeated so many times. A successful career in the professional military depends on serving in combat, and combat requires warfare. The military does not like the lull between wars, something many of us call "peace."

The military depends on politicians to send them to war. Toward this end, they encourage hawkish patriotism, which includes denigrating pacifists. I will be disappointed, but not surprised, to see Democratic candidates fall into this trap.

[jfern]

4. Hillary dodged the draft by being born female

[SonderWoman]

5. ...

[leftofcool]

7. ?

[Bryce Butler]

12. Jury results

On Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:40 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hillary dodged the draft by being born female
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=561916

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This kind of crap doesn't belong on DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:47 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a damn silly statement, but it's not alert worthy.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: omg, it's snark. on the internet. that's where snark comes from. get over it.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agreed. The Hillary hate needs to stop.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Geeze, how juvenile
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A stupid comment but I don't know that it is disruptive. Sort of on the fence so I'll vote to leave it.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. The jury system is an utter failure.

eom

[Thinkingabout]

16. Hell, bet you did not know women does not sign up for Selective Service.

[jfern]

18. That was my point

Women don't get drafted.

[DURHAM D]

17. If only they had passed the ERA

she might have been drafted. Some people just don't think far enough ahead.

So, I guess she can thank Phyllis Schlafly, large insurance companies, the Mormon Church, military officers, the Roman Catholic Church, and assorted legislators (state and national) and various Governors.

[SonderWoman]

36. She attempted to enlist in the Marines in 1975.

Turned down.

[rhett o rick]

6. I think the CO smear will back-fire. But they are desperately trying to find something to Swiftboat

Sen Sanders. They have enough resources to do it.

[SonderWoman]

8. A peace activist who votes for F-35s, guns, not closing GITMO,

Every war funding bill, and won't end drone program.

[jfern]

10. Is Bill Clinton a peace activist too?

Because he certainly went out of his way to avoid being drafted.

[Thinkingabout]

14. Bernie avoided the draft also.

[SonderWoman]

35. Hillary attempted to enlist in the Marines in 1975

But was turned down because of age (27) and eyesight.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. John Kerry went so far as to hurl his medals at the WH in disgust as a peace activist then later he

voted for the IWR. You've just thrown him under the bus.

[bvar22]

26. I threw him under the bus too when he voted for that stupid war.

I LOVED John Kerry, the anti-War activist and outspoken Liberal politician.

Something happened to him.
He is no longer the John Kerry I knew in the 60s,
and he no longer has my respect.

[Thinkingabout]

13. Peace activists thinks legal wars are okay. Do you know how Hillary and Bernie voted on AUMF,

Authorization of Military Force, they both voted yes. You may not know the details of IWR but this bill set guide lines for Bush to follow, to have the inspectors complete the inspection for WMD's. Bush pulled the inspectors out before the inspection. So before the peace activists declare a war illegal the facts needs to be Bush rushed to war and did not follow the guidelines set forth in the IWR.

Would it have been classified as an illegal war if WMD's would have been discovered?

Next question, are the peace activists for the invasion into Afghanistan? Well, the voting record should be checked on this one also.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. So you are what, a 'war activist' or are you just opposed to peace and peace activists?

That sneering tone toward those who seek to avoid deadly conflict is pretty creepy ass stuff. Blessed are the peacemakers. They inherit the Earth. So brace yourself.

[Thinkingabout]

27. Maybe trying to figure where peace activists draw the line. The post talked about illegal wars,

What about legal wars? Is that also a problem?

[morningfog]

19. And race baiting is cool again!

It's been out of favor since Hillary's 2008 run, but back by popular demand.

[Puzzledtraveller]

20. It's all marketing now.

Branding. The D's vs. The R's, Blue vs. Red, Donkey vs. Elephant. People pick their team, color, mascot and star QB's. Add a heavy dose of ego and you have intractable support for the corporate market researched political parties of today. They hope you don't demand substance from them.

[Zorra]

21. Lots of conscientious people refused to fight in that senseless war. 1967: Muhammad Ali refuses

Army induction.

On April 28, 1967, boxing champion Muhammad Ali refuses to be inducted into the U.S. Army and is immediately stripped of his heavyweight title. Ali, a Muslim, cited religious reasons for his decision to forgo military service.

On April 28, 1967, with the United States at war in Vietnam, Ali refused to be inducted into the armed forces, saying “I ain’t got no quarrel with those Vietcong.” On June 20, 1967, Ali was convicted of draft evasion, sentenced to five years in prison, fined $10,000 and banned from boxing for three years. He stayed out of prison as his case was appealed and returned to the ring on October 26, 1970, knocking out Jerry Quarry in Atlanta in the third round. On March 8, 1971, Ali fought Joe Frazier in the “Fight of the Century” and lost after 15 rounds, the first loss of his professional boxing career. On June 28 of that same year, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned his conviction for evading the draft.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/muhammad-ali-refuses-army-induction

Conservatives have totally despised Ali ever since. They started hating him earlier, when he took a Muslim name, but after he refused to go to Vietnam, the hatred oozed like toxic sludge from an abandoned gold mine.

Just a somewhat relevant side note.

[Avalux]

22. What bothers me most about Hillary's Senate floor speech....

she spoke with great conviction about how it was the hardest decision she's ever made, and was confident Bush would do the right thing; she talked about Saddam's evilness and his WMDs, ,then threw 9/11 in there for good measure at the end.

She didn't seem to have any misgivings. I can't get past that.

[Thinkingabout]

28. I guess you did not hear her say the Iraq War was wrong.

[Scootaloo]

30. At least 162,000 Iraqi civilians will never, ever have the chance to receive her apology.

[Martin Eden]

33. Was that before the IWR vote ...

... or after it became a political necessity to admit it was wrong?

[Avalux]

40. What year did she say that? n/t

[hifiguy]

34. The judgment of anyone who trusted Chimpy and Cheney to EVER

do the right thing is by definition flawed beyond redemption or explanation.

But I suppose this vote is one of the reasons Little Boots thinks she's like "a sister-law" to him and why the Clintons are "honorary members" of the Bush family. As if that doesn't say everything that needs to be said about the Clintons.

Birds, feather.....

[Thinkingabout]

41. The AUMF had already been voted on in 2001 and was in place at the time IWR was enacted.

The authorization was already in place to use military force. The IWR attempted to give guidance to Bush before he invaded Iraq. At least Hillary voted to give a guideline before invading Iraq of which Bush certainly did not follow, Bernie in his vote of no was against the guidelines, Bush would have invaded Iraq anyhow. Bernie must have been against the guidelines.

[Scootaloo]

29. It's swiftboating from a different angle. And from our own team

[Dont call me Shirley]

31. It's the new Orwellian "facts". Peace is war. War is Peace.

[Enthusiast]

32. That is what they want you to believe.

We have had quite enough of these unwarranted wars starting with Vietnam.

[moobu2]

38. Hows Bernie going to ask other to serve their country and perhaps give their lives

when he refused to?

[beam me up scottie]

39. K & R - Because some people still don't get it.

Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms



Sanders's political and anti-war activism in the 1960s and '70s has been well-documented. While at the University of Chicago, he was a member of several progressive peace organizations, including the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and the Student Peace Union.

As a congressman and later senator, Sanders has rarely voted to authorize the use of force.

In 1991, he stood in opposition to the first Gulf War, voting against military involvement in the country even after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. "I think we could've gotten Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait in a way that did not require a war," he told ABC's Martha Raddatz Sunday on "This Week," arguing that with the world in agreement, other options were available, including sanctions.

...

On the campaign trail, Sanders does talk about his work on the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs and what he sees as the long-term, human cost of war.

"The cost of war is great, and it is far more than the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on planes, tanks, missiles and guns," Sanders wrote in an opinion piece in the Boston Globe last summer. "The cost of war is more than 6,800 service members who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. The cost of war is caring for the spouses and children who have to rebuild their lives after the loss of their loved ones. It's about hundreds of thousands of men and women coming home from war with post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, many of them having difficulty keeping jobs in order to pay their bills. It's about high divorce rates. It's about the terrible tragedy of veterans committing suicide," he wrote.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-applied-conscientious-objector-status-vietnam-campaign/story?id=33434041&google_editors_picks=true

A HC supporter just posted this article here, why I'm not sure.

[Thinkingabout]

42. Bernie now says he will continue the drones and will use necessary military force.