Hillary Rodham Clinton: Hard Core Liberal . ....

[PosterChild]

Yep, it's the objective truth based on scientific evidence and beyond any doubt ! Here is the graph to prove it:



Details here:http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatch/candidate_map.asp?a1=1&a2=1&a3=1&a4=4&a9=1&a16=5&a10=5&a5=5&a7=4&a8=5&a14=1&a15=2&a17=2&a19=4&a18=4&a6=1&a20=4&a11=1&a12=4&a13=1&i1=1&i2=1&i3=1&i4=1&p=80&e=10&t=21

For comparison , here is Bernie's assesment:



http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatch/candidate_map.asp?a1=1&a2=1&a3=1&a4=5&a9=1&a16=5&a10=5&a5=5&a7=5&a8=3&a14=1&a15=2&a17=5&a19=5&a18=5&a6=1&a20=1&a11=1&a12=5&a13=1&i1=1&i2=1&i3=1&i4=1&p=98&e=5&t=21

Granted, also a hard core liberal - but what's that shift away from populism and towards libertarianism all about?

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. been using these here for months...

there are those here that simply will not accept those findings...

Even though even Nate Silver quotes them!

[Avalux]

2. It's not what she says, it's what she does.

People can 'say' they're a hardcore liberal but I prefer to decide through actions. Stacking those actions up - Bernie wins.

[VanillaRhapsody]

10. Uh huh really?

He may be more left.....but that doesnt mean every one in the country is as far left as Mr Sanders whether real or perceived....ignore that fact at your periL.

Denying that he will have trouble attracting PoC and women...is not going to help him attract them...

Add to that holding his feet to the fire on campaign finance on top of the previously mentioned issues and you have officially hobbled your candidate....

[Avalux]

21. Thanks for your opinion of Sanders. Now, let's address Hillary's actions.

What on earth has she done that shows us she's a hardcore liberal?

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. Let me help you with that...

Her record...

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[cali]

3. I've been explaining here for.years how inaccurate and stupid these graphs are

For one thing every vote is treated as having equal weight. For another, it doesn't account for a great many things. These graphs are for people who aren't capable of actually discerning who a candidate is and what they stand for

[HooptieWagon]

13. Very true.

When it counts, like voting for war or supporting Corporate America, she's right of center, and she hasn't 'evolved' on those issues. Then there's her friendship with Henry Kissinger, her association with The Family, and the funding for the DLC from the Koch Bros.

[PosterChild]

14. Gee, we don't all...

.... have the mysterious abilities necessary to see deep into the heart of others and intutitvly come to the correct and incontrovertible conclusions that you do. We are stuck with facts and math and stuff like that.

[cali]

22. but of course that has nothing to do with researching a candidate

If you need silly little charts, that's fine.

[PosterChild]

31. Sure, you just have to...

... find out what the candidate's first job was. That right there tells you everything you need today's know.

[cantbeserious]

4. Hard - Cold - Calculating - Maybe The Reasons For Unfavorability

eom

[PosterChild]

16. Who finds her unfavorable ? Democrats?

Or just some democrates?

Not that cold, hard, and calculating are necessary bad.

[cantbeserious]

19. Yes - Americans - Democrats, Independents And Republicans

eom

[PosterChild]

30. Naw, she polls well...

.... her focus on polling well is one reason why she's being criticized on DU, isn't it?

[cantbeserious]

33. One Must Be Living In Different Reality Than Others

eom

[cali]

39. not in the general. the primary should have been a stroll in the park for her

She has every conceivable advantage, but here she is stumbling- again. It doesn't bode well.

[Cleita]

5. I'm having a problem about how to talk to a younger friend

who is a Democrat and a liberal who suddenly discovered Ayn Rand through her new boyfriend.

sacre bleu

[PosterChild]

18. Recommend that she...

..... find a new boyfriend. But seriously, she should read John Rawls' " A Theory of Justice ". And Hugo's "Les Misérables".

[jeff47]

28. Try this:

[Motown_Johnny]

6. Only if you believe her stated positions won't change.

I can accept that is an assessment of where she says she is now, but we all know how she changes on issues every time the wind blows. If you think she isn't going to run back to the center as soon as she wins the nomination (assuming she does win) you are kidding yourself. That is how the game is played and she is a game player.


One example of why I can't trust what she says about where she stands on an issue.

[HappyPlace]

7. We're reminded that Warren said she hoped Clinton would run....

...and that statement has been twisted into an endorsement of Clinton, but it's not.

I think part of what she meant was that she hoped she would run-- to see a woman running but also to, hopefully, have a stark contrast drawn out by any Democratic opposition, like Sanders and O'Malley.

That she thinks Hillary would preside well over the nation, I think no.

[VanillaRhapsody]

35. ACTUALLY....it was a letter from ALL the Ladies of the Senate

encouraging her to run...and it was an endorsement of sort...

By the way...Hillary has dozens upon dozens of endorsements from her friends in Legislature.....where are all Bernie's friends there endorsing him? Sad and after 40 yrs too!

[azmom]

29. Thanks for the video.

How anyone can believe anything from the Hillary camp is beyond me.

[cascadiance]

8. These newer graphs don't reallyt have a decent measurement of authoritarianism range...

The older graph used to have a bit more accuracy in measuring this to help place just about everyone accurately. With a vertical scale scaling based on how centralized or authoritarian the leader is looking to be a part of versus espousing little or no government (which could be defined as populist. But a communist leader is definitely authoritatiran, but definitely is NOT a Libertarian. So where do you put someone like Joseph Stalin. Just because he was pals with the Koch brothers' father after WWII who were Libertarians, doesn't mean that Stalin was a Libertarian. He certainly in my book is not in any of the other quadarants either. That is why this measure is FLAWEED, and doesn't try to measure Hillary Clinton's ties to the 1% of America versus someone like Bernie, who is opposite of her there and is even further from many Republicans that want even more centralized leadership.

The older style graph is more accurate here, and I suspect that Bernie Sanders on this graph would be in the bottom left quadrant, which really helps us more accurately reflect their ties to those who want centralized versus populist government. Notice that Hillary Clinton here is in the upper right quadrant, and that John Edwards is the leftmost and bottom most member of this quadrant, where I would expect him to be, with Kucinich in the bottom left quadrant.



Notice how Ron Paul is neither the bottom of the upper right quadrant too, and below all other Republicans. The one thing I'd fix with the older graphs is not to label the bottom extreme "Libertarian", and label it anarchy or populist instead. Anarchy is the extreme as authoritarian (dictatorial) would be at the top. Libertarians are neither at the bottom or at the top of an authoritarian scale, as they don't want centralized leadership either, but want to allow a "free market" have the privileged have almost authoritarian power too if they are "able" to do so with enough money and other forms of power to do so.

[Garrett78]

17. You beat me to it.

I think the Political Compass graph is far more representative of reality. The US is dominated by 2 political parties. Right and Far Right. I still recall Kucinich being referred to as a "European Centrist." In the US, he's a fringe leftist who needed to be driven out of office.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. So ar you writing in Ralph Nader?

Seems he is the farthest left by your graph! And apparently being as far left as possible is all that matters in the election..

[Ron Green]

9. "Liberal" and "Conservative" are not useful terms.

For example, I think Bernie's kind of Democratic Socialism would encourage more and better entrepreneurship and local economic activity than would any sort of Neoliberal policies. Single-payer health care, for example, would greatly favor local start-ups and small businesses.

Bernie's a big fan of Pope Francis and his call for a socially active and supportive Church. He knows that Catholic Social Teaching and the vitality of engaged parishes are important in urban settings as well as rural areas.

This is where rational conservatives can find common ground with lefties, which is something that must happen if we're really going to make a better world. "Liberal" and "Conservative" (as used in the Dumbass Media) just aren't helping.

[PosterChild]

15. That's swell, but...

...neither Clinton nor Bernie are conservatives. They are both hard core liberals. Maybe you think bernie is going to forge a coalition with the so-called rational conservatives?

Ask Obama about that coalition strategy. And don't get your hopes up.

[Ron Green]

20. I'm not talking about coalitions, I'm talking about language.

The labels used by the media: they're crap.

[Armstead]

24. Rational conservatives do exist

The whackos have taken over the GOP and Congress and get the media attention,

But there is also a significant number of people who would describe them selves as conservative or moderate who have brains, and look at issues on their own terms.

Conservative moderates may be forced into the "red" category because of the binary "team" natuire of modern politics, or because of specific wedge issues like abortion. But they also would be receptive to "liberal" economic solutions if presented to them respectfully.

I think Sanders would do better at that.

[SunSeeker]

11. Of course she's a liberal.

That is why the GOP hate her.

[beam me up scottie]

12. ...

[pinebox]

23. Liberal?

She's a blue dog.
Once you take a look at her campaign backers and who they are, it's quite clear where she stands. No "liberal" should be propped up by the for profit private prison industry http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/24/1405229/-Private-Prison-Corporations-Stand-With-Hillary-Clinton On and on it goes.



And Politifact says what about that infographic??

[VanillaRhapsody]

37. Champagne taste with a beer pocketbook!

[99Forever]

25. Well crap. Guess I'll...

... Have to ignore reality because some person I don't know posted a graphic made by another person I don't know on the Internet. Even though it defies everything I actually know, because being a Sanders supporters, I am just that gullible and stupid.

[HassleCat]

26. You can't make up this stuff

Except you can. And this chart is about as bogus as they come. What the hell is "populist?" That designation has no real meaning in the United States. According to this chart, Sanders is a "better" Democrat than Clinton, or at least more liberal? Really?

[djean111]

27. That chart did not work on anyone the first time.

We can decide for ourselves, and those who have chosen Bernie, like myself, sort of think those charts are humorous at best.
Surely this is not a try to sway support from Bernie to Hillary, right? Because it was lame the first 1000 times.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. Oh really?

Nate Silver uses it!

[cali]

40. so what? Silver is hardly infallible.

[djean111]

41. Last time I looked, I knew no one who looked to Nate Silver when choosing a candidate to

support. My answer to that would be "so what?"

I do not consider the TPP, fracking, H-1B visas, or war "hardcore liberal" values.
That is what is important to me, not some chart.

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. Oh really? But Nate's Silver's bread and butter IS statistics

and unlike you...he finds their data valid...

I will take his opinion of it over yours....


and how do you feel about guns?

[djean111]

43. He predicts outcomes. That is what he does. Are you choosing a candidate to support based on what

Nate Silvers says? Yikes.

I think guns should be more regulated. if this is supposed to be a "gotcha!", too bad.
I understand Bernie's position on guns, and it does not outweigh how I feel about the TPP, fracking, war, H-1B visas, and cluster bombs. Those things damage women and children and men, and our planet, in wide swathes.

Also, bringing up what you think is a "gotcha!"? Like everybody else is supposed to act, Bernie supporters are not purists.

I will take his opinion of it over yours....

(Why always the odd ellipses?) I am not trying to convince you of anything. I don't really care if you take Nate Silver's opinion over mine. That is not what we were talking about. You seem to want ME to take Nate Silver's opinion over my own. That is not going to happen.

[VanillaRhapsody]

44. Yes I do...over YOURS yes

He is a statistician.....its what he does for a living.....

Do you think Bookies do not usually win? The house usually wins.....Because that is what Nate Silver does but with computer software and algorithms.....

So yeah....I will take his opinion....and Real Clear Politics and Predictwise....over the foolish predictions on DU! I believe in Science and Math!

[djean111]

46. Um, are we playing political Mad Libs? This OP is about those little chart-y things

that some try to use to convince non-Hillary supporters that being for the TPP, fracking, war, h-1B visas, and cluster bombs is somehow "hardcore liberal" - it is not about who Nate Silvers thinks will win the nomination. Maybe you need to re-read the thread.

Anyway, enough of your non-sequiters for today. 'bye......................................................................

[Romulox]

32. NEO-"liberal". nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

45. A chart showing Clinton being a liberal

...is a worthless chart. This is obvious on its face.