2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumOK-I'll put it here-Hillary Lied about coming under fire...
"Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday she made a mistake when she claimed she had come under sniper fire during a trip to Bosnia in 1996 while she was first lady.
In a speech in Washington and in several interviews last week Clinton described how she and her daughter, Chelsea, ran for cover under hostile fire shortly after her plane landed in Tuzla, Bosnia" snip
"In a speech in Washington on March 17 Clinton said of the Bosnia trip: "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."
"
She also told CNN last week: "There was no greeting ceremony and we were basically told to run to our cars. Now that is what happened."
video of the trip, showed Clinton walking from the plane, accompanied by her daughter. They were greeted by a young girl in a small ceremony on the tarmac and there was no sign of tension or any danger.
Source Link:http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/03/26/us-usa-politics-clinton-idUSN2540811420080326
Has dick shit to do with a primary but a ton to do with character...
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)It all adds up, and what it adds up to is more of the same lying from her. Lying politicians from the last 5 decades have caused enough BS, and I am sick of it. Why trust her to do ANYTHING she claims to want to do? Best bet now: Bernie
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)But not all people are decades long pathological liars... at some point you have to draw a line between being human and being pathological in your lying. To me, she has crossed that line (along with Nixon, Kissinger, Cheney, etc... great company on that side of the line)
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)but you saved me the trouble
MADem
(135,425 posts)If we're going to play those stupid games, Bernie wrote bad things about women in some horrible fiction and apologized for it.
Should we rehash that, too?
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)She is running for Commander In Chief.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And he applied for Conscientious Objector status--which means that he's a "pacifist," opposed to all wars.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-applied-conscientious-objector-status-vietnam-campaign/story?id=33434041
Obviously, he's changed his tune on that score, given his associations with Lockheed Martin. He's now 'picky' about his wars.
But still--he is running for Commander in Chief!!!!
See how this foolish tit-for-tat shit works? Eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.
He objected to the Vietnam war. In my opinion, if he did not object to that war he would not be a viable candidate for Commander In Chief.
Hillary's Valor Theft is entirely different.
MADem
(135,425 posts)conscientious objector status is all about.
It's not about objecting to "a" war. It's about objecting to ALL war. It is absolute pacifism. He asked for the status, but he didn't get it--he produced a child in 1969, which would have put him lower in the rotation.
And given his support of the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, and his support of the Israeli shelling of Palestinians while they were going after HAMAS, and his funding of continued war in the Middle East, and his support of Lockheed - Martin, it's plain that he has CHANGED HIS MIND on those things.
He's NOT as consistent as people want to paint him.
Apparently, he's the only candidate allowed to do that here on DU...?
And "valor theft?" Pfffffft. If you are shot at, and they miss, that's called "luck." There's no "valor" in being shot at--even if she was totally wrong about that (and she was, and she admitted it). You probably need to look that word up, too--it's one of those words, like "hero," that the younger generations tend to misuse with abandon.
artislife
(9,497 posts)How can you misremember? How can you think no one will be none the wiser. Your candidate is ____________.
MADem
(135,425 posts)where he tried to pass off his illegitimate son as being the product of his first marriage.
He also said hating your mother could cause cancer--since you want to talk about idiotic, untrue comments.
But gee "How can you misremember? How can you think no one will be none the wiser..." HMMM????
You wanna go there? We can. We most ASSUREDLY can.
It's pretty flipping pointless, though--as I said.
If someone corrects the record, and does so unequivocally, I say let it be.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Lying at a debate after being prepped for months and knowing there were journalists at said event vs to trying to raise a child as your own, even though some consider it better to label a bastard..., since it would cause a CHILD to be fodder is not equivalent.
But tell yourself it is the same. I cannot begin to fathom your reasoning skills.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He lied in his official biography. He didn't HAVE to. He could have just said "He has one son, Levi, and however many stepkids."
Or the even more vague "He and his wife have X kids."
No need to lie--but he did. He finally acknowledged it.
It IS the same--a lie is a lie. You don't get to pick which lies matter, and which ones don't.
As I've said, if people correct the record, move on. No need to carp and nitpick and play 'gotcha'--but if you do, I can come up with an equivalent example.
Instead of touting one's own candidate, some people start bullshit threads trying to stir the pot by saying something bad about the opposition. That's a pretty lame tactic.
artislife
(9,497 posts)....
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)man. That was long, long ago before he was elected to office. He was very young.
He was a conscientious objector in his youth. He has grown older, seen more and over the past 50 years, changed his mind on that issue. He still views war as a last resort.
Hillary lied about an easily verifiable fact -- the conditions she lived through in a specific situation.
Hillary misrepresented facts. Bernie expressed frustration about women's lib, maybe because of a soured relationship (I'm guessing) and moderated his view on war.
Those are two very different things.
The facts that Hillary misrepresented are not of great importance, but they indicate that she wanted to elaborate on the truth in order to get credit she did not deserve. That is very human, but not particularly admirable.
So far, Bernie is not known to have changed his mind as often or to have misrepresented (lied) even about a relatively unimportant event.
Just sayin'. Bernie wins this one if we want to count points.
MADem
(135,425 posts)and he has iterated and RE-iterated that it does NOT REFLECT HIS PRESENT VIEWS with regard to women and he has very forthrightly disavowed it.
And he wasn't a child--he was running for public office around that time frame. He'd divorced his college wife. He'd fathered a child with another woman (and the fundies would make a big point of noting that it was Outside The Sanctity Of Holy Matrimony Praise Jesus). He'd already said he was a pacifist and unsuccessfully petitioned the government for CO status. He was active in radical VT politics.
"Very young?" He was old enough to do all that. He was no 'baby.'
Hillary was working for the House of Representatives on the Nixon impeachment around the time he wrote that thing--and she's YOUNGER than him.
Good grief, the infantalizing is absurd! And it shows your bias--really, it does. You will excuse him anything, and her, nothing.
The best response is "He said it was stupid and he disavows it." No 'explanation' can make that pile of garbage right--despite the best efforts of people who thought they were helping him by writing tortured articles on "What he REEEEEEALLY meant." He didn't ask for their help and his "explanation" (it was stupid, I disavow it) is the appropriate one.
Of course they are different things--Bernie wasn't ever IN a war zone (despite his hawkish attitudes towards the conflicts in the region at that time). Hillary never wrote a horrible, stupid, essay about how some morons view sex roles and condone violence as a secret wish.
But see how you try to parse, to find difference, to "defend" when there's no need? Hummmmph--Hillary MISREPRESENTED FACTS, you insist. Are you saying Bernie DIDN'T misrepresent facts? That women DO like to be violated violently by strangers? EWWWWW. See how that shit works?
I would advise that when you're stuck in a hole, stop digging. Bernie and Hill know to do that--he did by saying his essay was trash. Hillary admitted her mistake.
Your insistence that "factual" Bernie's A-OK...but oh, that lyin' HILLARY....! is utter nonsense. And based on those writings, I'd be a bit concerned about not just OPPO research, but old fashioned REPORTING (which is what found that piece in the first place).
Everyone's back home now, vacations over, kids in school--people are going to start paying attention. Faux will eventually turn their attention from the Klown Kar, once those buffoons run out of money and start dropping like flies.
HRC has been vetted, Sanders has not. Since you're so invested in nitpicking, do understand that this kind of thing isn't a one way street. Stand by. The 4th Estate (or Faux--who must be differentiated since they aren't really "news" might not be his friend.
It's all pointless and it is stupid. But volleys will be returned, because that's the nature of the game. You'd think the smart move would be to not attack over resolved horse shit in the first place...I guess that's too much to ask.
Rather than snarky, re-hashing "I'll put it here" threads, why not a thread boosting a candidate?
Tear downs are so easy--build-ups, not so much, I guess.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)free. It is immature, but so are many people in their 30s.
I'm a woman who lived at that time. I'm just a year younger than Bernie. I understand the article in the spirit of the time. It was a rebellious time. The Bush boys were taking drugs in their youth, maybe even selling them. We shall see.
As for Bernie's being a conscientious objector in his youth. What is wrong with that. My father was a pacifist so that seems great to me.
And if you look at our history, since Bush I, George Herbert Walker Bush, we have not elected to the presidency anyone who served in our military. George W. Bush was the closest, He served in the national guard, if I remember correctly.
Hillary certainly did not serve in the military. She could have chosen to do so.
Hillary lied about what happened to her. That's all there is to it.
Hillary keeps having to apologize about recent opinions and actions on her part, recent mistakes.
Bernie laughs at things he did years ago.
Bernie has asked that we focus on the differences between the candidates on issues. And that is where Bernie wins hands down.
People like Bernie's policies and ideas on the issues better than Hillary's.
I'm sorry for Hillary fans, but that is the way it is.
MADem
(135,425 posts)your KID is? Typical situational horse hockey! It's the crime of the century when SHE does it, but when he does it, it's tune up the Excuse Making Orchestra!
And I don't recall him "laughing" when he was confronted with that sex essay. He took it quite seriously and said it was stupid, bad, awful and didn't reflect his present views. Odd that you would characterize him as laughing about the topics raised in that hot mess.
The infantalizing of an adult male needs to cease. "I'm sorry" for anyone who feels that they have to do that to support their chosen candidate.
And if you seriously think that comparing Sanders to the Bush brothers makes this situation "better" I still have one of those bridges for sale.
For you to go so far as to INSIST Hillary could have served in the military is laughable, too. At the time, women servicemembers who wanted to marry were not paid at the "with dependents" rate--their husbands were expected to provide them with housing--it was a blatantly "unequal pay" situation to encourage married women to leave service. Pregnant women, too, were discharged against their will because pregnancy was deemed "incompatible" with military service. Do some homework before you make absurd statements like that. If she'd been serving in the military. in the few shitty jobs that were open to women at the time, she wouldn't have been able to go to law school and serve on the House Impeachment committee while Sanders was busily trying to avoid the draft. And more to the point, there was no DRAFT for women--there was one for men.
Once BS had his kid, though, he went from 1-A to 3-C and didn't have to worry about CO applications anymore. That's how Cheney avoided the draft, too.
And GW Bush was an AWOL tool--but you keep insisting that the National Guard is not "the military." See how much traction THAT comment will getcha. The Guard/Reserves are represented on the JCS. Guard/Reservists are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. You'd do well to retract that remark, quick.
The fact that a guy who wants to be CinC tried to get out of the draft IS an issue--and it WILL come up again. The DU brooms sweeping everything under the rug might work here, but they won't work out in that Big Old Real World.
Stand By.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Saw that on the list you gave me the link to.
The Viet Nam War was a waste of lives and our resources. Sorry. But that is just the truth.
We accomplished nothing or next to nothing and so many young men died.
MADem
(135,425 posts)"IS" going to be a problem for him.
Losing the 1A status by way of parenthood also looks a bit like "Papa's little dividend."
People will ask--it's naive to think otherwise. It will be interesting to see how he handles these questions.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We have a volunteer army, and Democrats don't like war, not the Viet Nam War, not the Iraq Wars. We like veterans, but not wars.
Which of the Republican candidates is a veteran?
If Joe Biden enters the race, he could draw some votes from veterans. But those votes will probably come from Hillary's account.
Bernie has stood up for veterans, and veterans know it.
This is a non-issue. If it were going to be an issue, it already would be.
Bernie is liked because of his proposals on the economy and especially his opposition to our trade policy.
That he is not a veteran is irrelevant to the voters who are turning to Bernie because he represents them.
This is a new economy and it is bitter. So many people have lost jobs. I don't think that those who have never lost a job know what a blow being fired or losing a job for any reason is to a person. Yet today, employees are just cast away like so many peanut shells. Over and over.
And then the foreclosures. Millions of families were directly or indirectly touched by the foreclosures.
Then the wages that have not risen.
Whether someone has served in the military is just not going to be a top issue this year.
People are very hurt, and Bernie is offering some real solutions. Like taxing the 1%. That is what Americans want to hear about, not about military service.
Response to catnhatnh (Original post)
Post removed
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)still_one
(92,427 posts)This thread.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)4. I was watching Senator Richard Blumenthal (D -CT) on Hardball
He gilded the lily about his military service. I forgave him and I forgive HRC too... I don't judge people by their worst moments.
riversedge
(70,321 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)They are re-creating their previous locked thread...
Also odd.
First time I've seen it.
still_one
(92,427 posts)The primary general discussion, and it seems like a complete breakdown is occurring with the OP
Who is they?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)It's a bit odd.
Response to Agschmid (Reply #27)
still_one This message was self-deleted by its author.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)The OP already has a hide in the thread now so they are locked out.
Might be worth just asking them to delete it.
riversedge
(70,321 posts)still_one
(92,427 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 12:01 AM - Edit history (1)
referring to cannot even edit what is being attributed to them, because the OP owns it. Something is really wrong here to allow this to stand
riversedge
(70,321 posts)cult-like vile game --on a Dem. board
still_one
(92,427 posts)is disruptive as hell. Making quotes from specific people on DU, with those DU members, not being able to delete or edit those posts. It is not only a call out of individuals, it nuts.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Actually, it's the way this single individual person behaves.
still_one
(92,427 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)thank you.
still_one
(92,427 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)I suppose there really is a first time for everything
Something new everyday.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)'Twas a great deal of effort and I'm not really sure what the point was. Oh well!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Response to catnhatnh (Original post)
Post removed
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Someone else behaved like a lying piece of shit...
therefore Hillary smells like roses?
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Really???
I neither asked nor posited about another candidate. I SAID she lied and backed it up and posted it where I thought it could be best seen.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Are you in need of help?
Response to catnhatnh (Original post)
Post removed
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)This old old news, why is it on DU to start with? Stuff like this is going
to lose us the Whitehouse next year.
Uncle Joe
(58,433 posts)But it looks like they scrubbed the video, I can't get it to play.
Thanks for the thread, catnhatnh.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)They "scrubbed" the video?
Jesus, this place sometimes.
Uncle Joe
(58,433 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Just saying.
Uncle Joe
(58,433 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,433 posts)it won't play for me.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Then maybe she should bow out before her baggage costs our party and our nation.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)yes, she will
Not just a lie but including her KID, who was then made complicit. Wonder if chelseas ever been asked about this.
Brian Williams got fired for this shit. Should we hold a presidential candidate to a lower or a higher standard?
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Hillary? ... meh, not so much. just an honest mistake.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)LeftOfWest
(482 posts)n/t
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)What hell are you bringing her kid into this. Is this what Bernie stands for?
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Hillary, is nothing but stuff like this. If hillary gets the nomination say hello to president trump
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)In defense of Clinton, that's a minor embellishment.
I mean, if there's no greeting ceremony and instead they tell you to run to the cars, and it's a war zone, it would be easy to be fearful, even to the point of 'hearing' gunfire...I guess I forgive her totally for that. I mean, no one on ANY of these threads hasn't ever embellished a tale to make themselves look better, but it is awkward when it comes out.
I personally don't have any negative feeling toward Clinton based on this.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)A "minor embellishment"???
Ask any fucking veteran you have ever known.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Didn't A Similar Incident Suspend Brian Williams From NBC And Banish Him To An Obscure Position On..
MSNBC.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Why Yes-It Did
There's folks on this board whom have been shot at and several whom have been hit. When a single one of those tells me this is bullshit I will consider not posting it...
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)Benghazi!
Come on. You know you want to.
Capn Sunshine
(14,378 posts)This is a re-hash of some old crap from 2008.
She's already discussed this ad infinitum
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)anticipating the military vote. Oh but I forgot, the women soldiers will vote for her because she is a woman. Silly me. I just must be so confused that I don't understand their game plan for getting the military vote...
riversedge
(70,321 posts)SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Please, we lambasted the rightwing draft dodgers.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)to war because a woman wants to look tough. Plus, ethics count and people in the military really do understand the classified email scandal - they aren't confused.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)To fund Iraq War. Etc etc.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)How many times do we have to explain the difference between the Iraq war and Afghanistan/Kosovo?
And you expect us to believe that Bernie's equally culpable because he supported the troops Hillary voted to send to Iraq?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Perhaps you should look at her defense proposals before you start making sexist insinuations and playing the "silly" and "confused" cards in obviously snarky fashion.
Perhaps, too, once you've studied her proposals, you'll tell us why you think they'd prefer Sanders?
That is, if you can make that case.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,714 posts)eom
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)On Tue Sep 8, 2015, 07:13 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
OK-I'll put it here-Hillary Lied about coming under fire...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251579060
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This thread was locked now OP starts a new one
mocking the people that posted. Who is this a 6 year old?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 8, 2015, 07:25 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Assuming the alerter meant the thread that I saw, the thread-lock message said:
"Locking.
As this is focused on a Democratic Presidential primary candidate, this should be posted in GDP. "
The poster is doing exactly what they were told to do, so I can't really fault them.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The other thread was locked because it was in the wrong forum. I see no reason to hide the op, if individual posts in the thread are oot alert on them.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I hide any post that trashes a Democrat.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hillary has more baggage than LAX.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alerter that there are a lot of call outs in this thread by the originator. This thread is pretty much just name calling.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #48)
still_one This message was self-deleted by its author.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)(besides me) much less who they support for the nomination but apparently you haz a mad about it anyway.
"I will remember this. What comes around goes around."
Exactly how old are you? (Rhetorical)
still_one
(92,427 posts)Regarding the main OP, NOT yours, I did not appreciate comments being attributed to me that I cannot edit or delete. That was directed at the the main OP, not you.
In fact it appears a jury agreed with me on that issue, and locked the comments attributed to me by the OP, so as far as I am concerned problem solved.
Have a good evening
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And you're not upset about that. Moral of the story: if you say something, be ready to stand by what you've said. In the real world, one cannot just take words back.
still_one
(92,427 posts)I acknowledge it, and I took the corrective action that I CONTROL. You don't like that when someone admits an error, and you want to rub their face in it, that's your problem, not mine
Have a good day
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)LeftOfWest
(482 posts)learning a lot here.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)just to call out other members? You may want to put the beer aside for the night.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)I am not sure it's what I would have done, but I commend your effort.
MFM008
(19,820 posts)This is as about as interesting as BENGHAZI or EMAILS. It does not make me less inclined to vote for her.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)He does though.
eridani
(51,907 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,714 posts)I guess calumnies don't count when the wrong people are the target of the calumnies.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Looks more like the Yahoo comment section these days.
Mob behavior is fascinating, no?