"The Ghost of Cornel West"

[pnwmom]

The rise and fall of Cornel West . . . except now he's rising again, along with Bernie Sanders. Why would Sanders, in an effort to reach out to the African American community, choose to link himself with someone who is such a public Obama-hater? Surely there are other high profile, highly progressive black people who would have been happy to associate themselves with Sanders.

So why Cornel West, of all people?

This piece was written by a former friend of West's in April. According to the writer, West and Obama had always had their ups and downs, but the rift widened when Obama failed to give West special tickets to the inauguration.


http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost

President Obama betrayed him.
He’s stopped publishing new work.
He’s alienated his closest friends
and allies. What happened to
America’s most exciting
black scholar?

By Michael Eric Dyson

NOR HELL A FURY LIKE A WOMAN SCORNED” is the best-known line from William Congreve’s The Mourning Bride. But I’m concerned with the phrase preceding it, which captures wrath in more universal terms: “Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned.” Even an angry Almighty can’t compete with mortals whose love turns to hate.

Cornel West’s rage against President Barack Obama evokes that kind of venom. He has accused Obama of political minstrelsy, calling him a “Rockefeller Republican in blackface”; taunted him as a “brown-faced Clinton”; and derided him as a “neoliberal opportunist.” In 2011, West and I were both speakers at a black newspaper conference in Chicago. During a private conversation, West asked how I escaped being dubbed an “Obama hater” when I was just as critical of the president as he was. I shared my three-part formula for discussing Obama before black audiences: Start with love for the man and pride in his epic achievement; focus on the unprecedented acrimony he faces as the nation’s first black executive; and target his missteps and failures. No matter how vehemently I disagree with Obama, I respect him as a man wrestling with an incredibly difficult opportunity to shape history. West looked into my eyes, sighed, and said: “Well, I guess that’s the difference between me and you. I don’t respect the brother at all.”

West’s animus is longstanding, and only intermittently broken by bouts of calculated love. In February 2007, West lambasted Obama’s decision to announce his bid for the presidency in Illinois, instead of at journalist Tavis Smiley’s State of the Black Union meeting in Virginia, calling it proof that the nascent candidate wasn’t concerned about black people. “Coming out there is not fundamentally about us. It’s about somebody else. [Obama’s] got large numbers of white brothers and sisters who have fears and anxieties, and he’s got to speak to them in such a way that he holds us at arm’s length.” It is hard to know which is more astonishing: West faulting Obama for starting his White House run in the state where he’d been elected to the U.S. Senate—or the breathtaking insularity of equating Smiley’s conference with black America.

Despite West’s disapproval of Obama, he eventually embraced the political phenom, crossing the country as a surrogate and touting his Oval Office bona fides. The two publicly embraced at a 2007 Apollo Theater fundraiser in Harlem during which West christened Obama “my brother... companion and comrade.” Obama praised West as “a genius, a public intellectual, a preacher, an oracle,” and “a loving person.”

SNIP

[Scootaloo]

1. In 2008, it was Jeremiah Wright. I guess this time it'll be Cornell West, huh?

[pnwmom]

3. Did Jeremiah Wright call Obama names like "n****ized President"

and "black mascot" and "black puppet"?

Somehow I missed that.

But Cornel West has. Why would Bernie Sanders choose to associate himself with someone who has been slurring Obama for years? Couldn't he find other black progressives to align himself with?

[Scootaloo]

6. No, his lines were different

Didn't stop Hillary supporters from using him as an "Angry Black Man" bludgeon against then-candidate Obama.

[brush]

78. A couple of years ago a huge argument raged here on someone calling the President a piece of sh_t .

used car salesman. Many, many here were highly upset with that poster who got suspended for it and rightly so.

Well, what he called the President is mile compared to what Cornell West has called the President.

And now we have people arguing that West, with all his baggage and extreme dislike in the black community, is a good choice for the Sanders campaign to pair with.

A-fucking-mazing!

Like there are no other prominent AA Sanders supporters.

Whoever is doing the research on the Sanders campaign is not serving their candidate well as this dislike should have been discovered.

[Scootaloo]

81. Interesting that an entire career is so easily thrown away over a single phrase.

...And yet apparently voting to obliterate the lives of three hundred thousand - More! - brown people from the face of the earth for no reason greater than cold career-oriented calculation... is completely dismissable.

Context excuses a massive, irrepairable crime against humanity.

But not a phrase excerpted from a lengthy interview.

Hmm!

By the by. I was not aware that the black community was a monolithic entity that spoke with a single voice with you as their mouthpiece. Maybe you could update me as to when that vote was held? it was decided democratically, wasn't it?

[brush]

82. Here's a link to refresh your memory

This dislike of West's crude attacks on The President of the United States is no secret in the black community and if you have any connection at all to said community you would know this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=26471

[Scootaloo]

90. Oh, thanks, I've read the links. It doesn't change either point I made.

Would you care to address those points?

[brush]

92. Would you care to LOOK AT THE LINK. How does on read a video?

[Scootaloo]

95. Apologies, I figured it was a link to the one Pnwmom gave me just below

There's been kind of a concerted effort by Hillary supporters to tell us all about what a terrible person Dr. West is tonight, so you'll have to forgive me. One thread about how the "Scary Black Man" better keep his uppity mouth shut and know his place or else is pretty much the same as the next twelve, as far as I figure.

sadly, a recent computer issue has been keeping me from doing anything involving my sound card. driving me absolutely batshit, i tell ya. So I'm going ot guess that the video has pretty much the same content as the text I would find in those other threads. yes? Pretty certainly.

Now. The point I brought up? How is it that Dr. west's badmouthing a political figure is apparently enough to nullify the decades of his career...

but Clinton's major achievements - all of which revolve around the killing of LOTS of Arabs - is no problem for her at all?

[brush]

101. I'm not a Clinton supporter

I don't know who I will support yet but I do know that partnering with West is not a good idea for the Sanders campaign.

And too bad you can't look at the video. It gives a good idea of the unpopularity in the AA community of West.

No Dem candidate can win the nomination or the presidency without a large segment of the black vote.

That is a known fact and it has nothing to do with West's positions career or intellectual this or that.

The issue is realpolitik, what's actually on the ground, which is Sanders partnering with West which will lose a lot of black votes.

It's unfortunate.

[Scootaloo]

113. I decided to try the video in Internet Explorer

THAT is an adventure in its own right. But it seems to play more cleanly than on firefox. Sections of it still sound like power metal with a banjo, but I'm managing.

And it took me a second to realize, but... Steve Harvey? Steve Harvey. You are citing Steve Harvey, as the mouthpiece for the minds of black Americans. Are you for real? Further. You think that having Steve Harvey sneer at Tavis Smiley and Cornel West, calling them "poverty pimps" and "hustlers" is going to make me agree with you about the "awfulness" of those two men?

Tell you what. next time you want to talk about someone saying mean things? Don't bring a homophobic misogynistic religious bigot to argue your point for you, kay? And don't use a video that starts out with some particularly unsubtle dog-whistling, especially if you're trying to complain about racial language.

Steve fuckin' Harvey.

[haikugal]

153. Revealing isn't it?

Unbelievable, truly.

[brush]

178. The group on the video are echoing long-standing feeling in the AA community

Last edited Mon Sep 14, 2015, 10:34 PM - Edit history (1)

If you don't want to accept reality, as if these Cornell West threads saying much the same thing don't even exist, you're in denial. It's very well known in the black community.

And where did you get Steve Harvey is a "homophobic misogynistic religious bigot"?

He's written several books on relationships that have done well.

A link to prove that he's a "homophobic misogynistic religious bigot" as I've never heard that accusation before.

And btw, since you don't like Harvey, here are some other links from fellow AA intellectuals who are equally aghast at West's off-the-rails trashing of Obama and others.

"The Rise and Fall of Cornel West" by Michael Eric Dyson..

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost

Melissa Harris-Perry on Cornel West

http://www.thenation.com/blog/160725/cornel-west-v-barack-obama#

[pnwmom]

83. It wasn't a single phrase or a single incident. Cornel West has repeated insults like this

over and over through the years. Here are just a few of them:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899166

[Scootaloo]

91. Which nullifies his entire career?

And yet, the core achievements of Clinton's political career - the eradication of hundreds of thousands of lives from assorted Middle eastern and African nations - has no impact on her viability whatsoever for you.

Interesting dichotomy. The black man better watch what he says, while the WASP queen can literally get away with mass murder.

[pnwmom]

96. He's nullifying Obama's whole Presidency, reducing Obama to a caricature.

None of this is about Hillary. I wouldn't care if Bernie wanted to shoot himself in the foot this way -- except I think he might end up beating Hillary and ending up in the General. Then what?

If he goes into the General with West at his side, a lot of disgusted voters are going to stay home . . . or maybe they'll pull the lever for a Rethug ticket with Ben Carson as one of the candidates. He's going to end up on the ticket somewhere, because the Rethugs are convinced that AA people only voted for Obama because he's black. (And in case you haven't noticed, he's polling at #2 now, just behind Trump. He's especially well liked by women.)

Carson has a higher standing in the community than you might realize, despite his extreme positions. He's respected for his work as a brain surgeon, and he has a soft-spoken, intelligent manner of speaking and a self-deprecating sense of humor. To people not paying attention to issues -- and sadly, most voters choose based on gut impressions more than issues -- he will come across much more positively than Cornel West.

[Scootaloo]

100. Really? Dr. West has nullified Obama's presidency? SUCH POWER!

And the fact is, when a bunch of Hillary supporters are marching around trying to erase Dr. west's career because he said somethign mean about the president, it does result in the rest of us looking at them - and their candidate. And what I'm seeing is a candidate whose major career achievements are crimes against humanity. And her supporters, so eager to eradicate a black man's career for not watching his mouth, are giving free pass to this white woman despite the massive pile of bodies her votes and policies have generated.

[pnwmom]

111. I haven't committed to any candidate, and I want each of them

to be as strong as possible in the general.

The top two right now are Hillary and Bernie. I don't want Hillary to be hurt by unfair attacks on her email use and I don't want Bernie to shoot himself in the foot by connecting himself to an anti-Obama blowhard.

Bernie and Hillary are smart enough not be be subjecting each other to unfair attacks. They want whoever the candidate is to be as strong as possible. Their supporters should want that too.

And Cornel West will only hold Bernie back. In the long run, if he sticks around and doesn't shut up about Obama, he could be very damaging.

[Scootaloo]

115. Ah yes, funny how that works out. (cough)

Now, even so. How about you address the point I raised?

[pnwmom]

116. I think your "point" is an unfair attack on HRC that doesn't deserve a reply.

You'l never see Bernie Sanders making such an attack.

[Scootaloo]

117. Of course you do. That's exactly my point

Cornell West says something mean about the president? You declare his entire career and everything else he's ever said completely null and void, and use him as a springboard to attack Sanders.

Clinton votes to kill a bunch of people for no damn good reason whatsoever, knowing the premise is full of shit? You give her a pass and call citing that matter of record "unfair."

Huh. odd, from an undecided. Maybe stick to trashing transwomen and counting black people in little pictures.

[pnwmom]

120. You think it's fine for West to attack Obama's whole career but not for

an Obama supporter to criticize West for calling Obama racial slurs.

Hillary was wrong to believe Colin Powell's lying Iraq presentation, but so were John Kerry and Joe Biden, among others. And they voted for an IWR with conditions on UN involvement that Bush ignored. That is on Bush, not on the people who voted for the conditional IWR.

[Scootaloo]

129. I don't think West's words matter one whit.

Barack Obama is a grown-ass man and a two-term US president. I think he can handle himself. And frankly I'm not going to wag my finger in a black man's face and tell him how he is and is not allowed to talk about race issues, pnwmom.

My point is that it's fucking disgusting and hypocritical that Dr. west is apparently the devil for saying something mean about the president - and that this is somehow more "Sanders is bad with blacks mmmkaaay" bullshit... but Clinton can help create hundreds of thousands of dead Arabs with nothing more than a smirk and a giggle, and that's just fine with her supporters.

As for this bullshit?

Hillary was wrong to believe Colin Powell's lying Iraq presentation, but so were John Kerry and Joe Biden, among others. And they voted for an IWR with conditions on UN involvement that Bush ignored. That is on Bush, not on the people who voted for the conditional IWR.

if someone asks me to sign on to a document titled "Authorization for use of Military Force in Iraq" then I'm going to assume they want me to authorize them to use military force in a place named Iraq. It's pretty intuitive, as far as I can tell. According to you, Hillary Clinton - among others - looked at this document and thought it meant the exact opposite of what it said. Even having been "briefed" by the then-Secretary of State of the danger of Iraq and the need to attack it ASAP. Even with all their constituents yelling in their ear not to sign it, that it was all bullshit.

So, we look at this and we have two possible conclusions.
Either
1) Clinton is a cold, calculating person who knew what was up but signed on to go to war with Iraq anyway because it would make her look "tough on terror" and "good on defense," helping further her political career
or
2) Clinton is a moron of the highest fucking caliber, who was repeatedly hoodwinked by George W. Bush and thought that signing a pledge to go to war with Iraq meant that there wouldn't be a war with Iraq.

When she campaigned in 2008, she was pounding way at being tough on terror and good on defense, and rallied around her IWR vote as proof of this - even attacking Obama for his vocal opposition to the war. So I'm inclined towards #1 out of those options. But either way, it tells me she's not fit to run a quiznos, much less a nation with a nuclear arsenal. Callous or stupid, these are not qualities fitting a US president.

(By the by; You have a problem with people badmouthing Obama? Look up Clinton's "three AM phone call" ad. or her endorsement of mcCain on defense.)

Yup, the bush Administration carries the brunt of this crime against humanity. But the people who willingly and KNOWINGLY acted as enablers to it are guilty, too. And for you - or anyone - to give them a pass over the millions of lives they chose to ruin, while at the same time totally demonizing a man because of word choice is fucking grotesque to me.

[pnwmom]

130. Apparently you have a habit, like Bush, of only reading the titles of documents

and not the detailed conditions stated within.

Fortunately no one's ever going to have to rely on your intuition as President.

[Scootaloo]

132. My intuition would have avoided a needless war, at least

Apparently we can't say that about at least one candidate on our ballots.

[pnwmom]

151. In the real world it would have accomplished nothing

for you to have voted against the fall IWR because the incoming Rethug Congress would have given Bush a blank check IWR anyway. Though you would have had the satisfaction of knowing that you voted against a war that Bush should never have gone ahead with. But you couldn't have actually stopped the war, if you had been in Hillary's shoes. The only choice you would have had would have been to vote against the IWR, but watch the Rethugs approve one anyway, or vote for one with UN conditions.

Of course if Al Gore had been President, as he should have been, there would have never been an Iraq war.

[Scootaloo]

156. I thought I was the president for your sneery little argument?

Fortunately no one's ever going to have to rely on your intuition as President.

Keep cutting all the excuses and justification for Clinton's vote to go to war against a non-belligerent nation that you need, pnwmom. All it does is make Clinton look more like either an opportunist or a fool.

Maybe that's intentional though, since you're "not a Hillary supporter"

[beam me up scottie]

122. This.

Everything.

Especially the last part.

[snagglepuss]

128. Your rebuttals on this thread are brilliant.

There are a number of posters on DU who imho should run for political office and you're one of them.

[Bonobo]

134. I learned long ago to try NOT to be on the receiving side of scootaloo's ire.

She is a major-league ass kicker of the highest order.

[Scootaloo]

157. It's "he" actually

Just because I think My Little Pony is adorable doesn't make me less of a man!

ahem. The two of you are gonna make me blush. Stahp.

[Bonobo]

182. Oh, sorry.

Well, whatever your gender is, you're smart as a whip and a great and logical arguer.

[Aerows]

187. Scoot can burn the place down

when he gets going, and mostly, it's a wonderful conflagration that was a long time coming!

[brush]

180. Are we talking about West and the potential loss of votes for Bernie . . .

or Hillary? I thought it was the latter.

The Sanders campaign needs to peel off AA votes from Hillary.

Citing your criticisms of Hillary is not the point, it's about the Sanders campaign partnering with a well known Obama hater and then asking for votes from the Obama coalition.

That seems a tad counter intuitive, doncha think?

Actually more than a tad.

[Fawke Em]

2. Read it and don't care.

I care that 9,129 North Carolinians showed up to see Bernie speak in Greensboro on a Sunday night and that the crowd was vast and diverse.

[pnwmom]

4. Maybe that crowd would look diverse to a Vermonter. Greensboro is 41% black.

Does that crowd look 41% black to you?

[beam me up scottie]

5. Counting poc again?

How many were in that crowd, pnwmom?

[appalachiablue]

14. The constant eyeballing for 'race' is becoming chronic, & creepy isn't it. A race fixation clearly.

[beam me up scottie]

15. I think so.

Someone has a race problem but it isn't the Senator from Vermont.

People come in all colours, trying to count the darkest ones in a crowd is as you say, creepy.

[Scootaloo]

24. One only needs to have memory of the 2008 primary campaign

[appalachiablue]

27. Yes all the 'hard-working white people' as one of our candidates stated for instance-

[Scootaloo]

41. The origins of birtherism...

The Jeremiah Wright smear, as I noted above. "He'd be carrying our bags," all that shit.

John Lewis and Ted Kennedy both ditched their support for Clinton, because of the heavy racialization of the Clinton campaign.

[appalachiablue]

42. The many uglies some hypoctrites forget, including the infamous 'Not Good Enough Bernie' on race

right here in late May 2015 after Bernie had announced his candidacy, the beginning of the race plan. Rubbish.

[arcane1]

67. This is how the Clintons have run every election. They are old-old-school Democrats n./t

[Scootaloo]

7. "Black" comes in a variety of shades, pwnmom

I don't know what the demographics of that crowd are, and neither do you. "Eyeballing it" from a three-by-two photo sure isn't gonna do it.

[MrMickeysMom]

10. Tell me, pnwmom...

… What is the standard difference between who goes to political events and their demographic profiles?

[Bonobo]

12. Hard to find black people in NYC, pnwmom?

[Fawke Em]

17. It looks bigger than an of Hillary's

and her crowds aren't mostly black, either.



That's Milwaukee. It's 40 percent black. Is that crowd 40 percent black? Nope.

BTW, I'm Southern. Trust me - I know diversity and it's not just black and white.

[pnwmom]

26. Hillary isn't the one who's dealing with black voter approval in the low single digits. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

32. And you're just here to help Senator Sanders, right?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

21. What is the matter with you

Obama had big white crowds.

[slipslidingaway]

29. I am trying very hard to not allow this type of thinking into my mind but ...

your last thread evolved into a 'counting the black faces' at a $50. minimum donation fundraiser event. You never acknowledged the fact that the event you were talking about costs money to get in the door and that many poor, black or otherwise people (pick a damned color) cannot afford to attend a fundraising event.

I really do not want to count the people by their skin color, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. This is what was stated in your last thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251587673#post7

"You found pictures of a couple black guys. But the crowd still isn't very diverse. Maybe it would be diverse for Vermont -- but not for Atlanta Democrats."

And now you post another article citing the lack of a "diverse" crowd and ask people to count the "blacks" once again?

Maybe it is just me, but I feel there is something terribly wrong when one tries to divide people by race ... or religious beliefs ... or sexual orientation. You will not sway my mind into your beliefs, but I will also not remain silent.

That is contrary to my beliefs and also what the Sander's campaign is trying to get across to all people. We do not win when we are divided!!!

I am not your enemy because I have a different color of skin, or believe in a different religion or have a sexual preference that does not conform to your opinion.

Can we please dispense with the 'count the blacks' posts and speak of issues that confront the majority of people?

[murielm99]

58. Like this post,

that criticized Hillary's Roosevelt Island event?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251590115

Or the post that dismissed a Hillary event in Iowa for being too white?

Bernie supporters on DU often dismiss Hillary's events as being too white. Now you don't like it if someone does that to you? Hmmmm

[slipslidingaway]

73. Do you even know why that post came about, it was a response to this post ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=587673

"A very warm but mostly white crowd welcomes or Sanders in mostly non-white Atlanta"

This was a fundraising event in Atlanta, the minimum donation was $50, which is a big deal for many people, black, white, green or whatever color.

Please post pictures of Hillary's fundraising events that show a majority of black folks. I wonder what year we are living in when 'black folks' become pawns on a supposedly Democratic site?

Do you find this whole discussion of 'count the blacks' disgusting!!!

I sure do, but you should be aware of how the conversation began. On DU it began well over a year ago with someone saying the old, white liberals needed to get out of the way. It continued in various forms until Sander's addressed a group of people in Vermont to say he would run for President. He obviously did not bus in the required number of black folks for his speech and the idea of not 'enough blacks' in the crowd was born.

Sorry to tell you that it was not the Sander's supporters that started this disgusting dialogue and would rather not continue it, but when confronted will state the facts.

[murielm99]

79. If you want it to stop,

then set the example by stopping it yourself.

The Sanders supporters, who are in the majority here, lose no opportunity to 'count the black people.'

[slipslidingaway]

84. Sander's supporters are not posting pics and asking how many blacks are in the crowd ...

never once in my recollection has there been a post about 'counting the blacks' initiated by a Sander's supporter that has not been in response to a post by a Clinton supporter. These posts have been going on for several months, have you asked them to stop? Did you or any other Clinton supporters object to those racist posts? If so please post the links to your objections. The problem is, being a white person, I have little say according to some people.

This has not been a fine moment for DU, in the 10 plus years I have been here, there has never been such a divide along racial lines. It is not something I wish to perpetuate, but you need to object to those who are instigating the divide, not those who fight back. You cannot just ask those who are being attacked to remain silent.

[Scootaloo]

118. Sorry Muriel, but you need to understand something...

When you initiate a conflict, the people you are coming after are going to respond in kind. And quite often there's a good chance they will give you a proverbial ass-beating. when that happens, you can't then demand that they back off and let you keep swinging. But that's what I keep seeing from Clinton supporters.

For five months now, Clinton supporters on DU have been proffering nothing but a constant stream of hatred, often racially-flavored, at Sanders and his supporters. And then act surprised when they get taken to town for it.

Tonight, pnwmom broke out her magnifying class, counted brown pixels (only sufficiently brown pixels - she gets to decide who is and is not black!) and tried to use her completely unbiased count to declare demographics of a crowd at a Bernie event. based on a two-by-three inch digital image of a fraction of that crowd. And predictably, you're here to act surprised and offended that she's getting called on it. Complete with "yeahbut" arguments that only serve to worsen your initial situation.

[LeftOfWest]

119. this.

good post.

enough of the clinton hideous race strategy. ugh.

did not work in 2008 either.

'worsen your initial situation'.

yes.

[beam me up scottie]

121. Word.

Damn I'm glad you're back.

[murielm99]

125. Nonsense.

Bernie supporters started the racially tinged hatred when their candidate was shouted down by BLM protesters.

If Bernie wants black support, he is doing it in a poor manner. Most black people do not like Cornel West, and they resent the way BS supporters have responded to BLM.

I have seen constant pooh-poohing of Hillary's events as being "too white." If pnwmom is using her 'magnifying glass,' she is doing it in response to the attacks of BS supporters.

I am not black, but I can see what is happening to black DUers. The hate is not coming from us.

[beam me up scottie]

126. Not Good Enough Bernie

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

Was that vile pos thread posted before or after blm protested nrn?

Look at who posted, applauded and rec'd that thread.

And what about this anti-Semitic op calling Bernie a racist and using a racial slur that you rec'd?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506371

The hate is indeed coming from HC supporters and has been for months.

[Scootaloo]

131. I'm sorry Muriel, but you're not allowed to re-write history.

Start with the post BMUS linked to you, "Not Good Enough, bernie." In that thread the author throws as much racial-baiting garbage as she can at sanders, even to the point of calling him a segregationist. It's so bad even a few Hillary supporters are like "woah... chill there."

Date of the post? May 27. The day after Sanders' campaign kickoff. it was preceded by posts on the 26th making hay about white people attending his event in Burlington.

NRN was not until July 16, two months later.

Now, have a look at the second post BMUS provided. You recced it, so you're familiar.

Clinton supporters have been strumming this "Jews vs. Blacks" chord since Sanders started his campaign.

Since. The. Start.

[haikugal]

161. Damn Scootaloo, you're a kick ass pony!

Well said, and thank you!!

[Aerows]

188. Were you appointed to

"Head Census Taker of People Attending Political Rallies?"

Or do you imagine yourself Supervisor of the Department of "Telling Black People Who to Vote For"?

[appalachiablue]

18. This is fantastic, over 9,000 people came out on a Sunday night. But Bernie is doing this

all over for months, so no real surprise. He has a message and appeal that's growing and growing!

[Bonobo]

8. Cornel West and the Fight to Save the Black Prophetic Tradition

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/18691-cornel-west-and-the-fight-to-save-the-black-prophetic-tradition

[Luminous Animal]

9. Kudos to your dedicated work in creating a racial divide.

You are doing a great job of pitting black against white. Reminds of my 1970s high school years.

[pnwmom]

31. Oh, right. I'm "creating a racial divide" though Cornel West has been hating on

President Obama for years and now Bernie's decided to join forces with him.

And I guess you think Bravenak, the Bernie supporter who tried to explain why hating Obama wouldn't help attract Bernie voters, was creating a racial divide, too?

[virtualobserver]

46. Cornell West's introduction of Bernie was wonderful.

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie is not trying to "win" black votes with his inclusion of Dr. West in his campaign.

He welcomes Dr. West because he stands up for working people and the poor. He fights
for economic justice and social justice. Dr. West tells the truth.

[appalachiablue]

149. Amen. That's the crux of it. Americans of all backgrounds across the county are

losing ground and suffering especially in the most economically depressed areas like the gutted Midwest, the South and the once great cities like Camden, NJ, Balto., Cleveland and many other areas hit by deindustrialization and job losses with no hope in sight. If people don't support Bernie, O'Malley or real Democrats in this election there won't be another chance at the rate this country is declining in every regard- industry, jobs, education, the middle class, the social safety net and more.
The conservative RW establishment of the Kochs and others will make certain there is not another opportunity to help working Americans and families. If matters don't start to improve there won't be a middle class in a generation either, bank on it.

West and many others realize all this, and you can see postings about it daily on this forum. West has always supported the fight for working people and social justice as you say, like Bernie. This manufactured drama and 'outrage' to try to take down Bernie with West over Obama is a ruse and miniscule in view of the larger and grave issues this country now faces. People better pay attention and realize how critical these times are and how important the 2016 election is. It's that simple and that uuge!

[haikugal]

162. Absolutely and totally dismissed by the hate mongers on this board.

Thanks for speaking out!

[MrMickeysMom]

52. Vitriol…

Oh, I forgot to add anger-based vitriol… Just who are you so angry over? And, why do you go from asking for help to calling West an Obama hater. You either cannot read for comprehension or are purposely spinning around on the floor by now.

How ridiculous your posts are. And, as I said earlier, you are very good at getting my sympathy for people who are not treated fairly, but then you turn right around and outright lie about who Bernie Sanders' supporters are. West, in everything that was aimed in Obama criticism, never showed the hate you seem to want people to believe.

You are wrong in the most hateful way.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[uponit7771]

66. Calling Obama a bunch of racist tripe isn't doing the same thing?!!?! REALLY?!

[RobertEarl]

11. The hate for West is odd

The man speaks his mind; railing against the worldwide oppression of Black people, and he gets attacked for doing so? That is really odd. I can see white bigoted people ranting at West, but not anyone else.

[Bonobo]

13. They see it only as an attack on Obama and miss the bigger picture.

It's the same people who think having a black president removes the stain of racism from the country.

[Fawke Em]

19. They must hate John Conyers and Joe Madison, too.

[appalachiablue]

22. Conyers and Madison are terrific. Illinois Rep. Conyers and Bernie have worked on a jobs bill

for youth recently and known each other for a long time. Radio host Joe Madison is a very well liked political commentator, beloved by many.

[Snotcicles]

44. John Conyers is a Detroiter. nt

[appalachiablue]

45. He is a Michigan Rep., right.

[dsc]

25. I would be willing to bet that neither one of those men

said they didn't respect Obama, or call him a brown faced Clinton. There is a huge difference between criticizing Obama's policies and criticizing Obama in racial terms or saying one doesn't respect Obama. West did exactly those things.

[brush]

47. He doesn't get attacked for railing against oppression of black people.

He's highly disliked in the AA community for his long-going crusade of personal animus towards President Obama.

The Sanders campaign must not have researched this.

[RobertEarl]

48. What about this?

http://blackamericaweb.com/2013/10/07/black-church-leave-tavis-smiley-and-cornel-west-alone-they-are-our-black-princes/
?w=630

The National Black Church Initiative has a stern message for folks who have been critical of Tavis Smiley and Cornel West: Leave them alone.
“Take your hands off these brothers,” the NBCI says in a statement. “They Are Our Black Princes.”

The National Black Church Initiative, (NBCI) a faith-based coalition of 34,000 churches comprised of 15 denominations and 15.7 million African American parishioners, says it is “standing strong with Smiley and Cornel West as they continue to educate us on how the Obama administration has consistently ignored and vilified the Black community.”

[kwassa]

55. and who are they?

Their own website might be hacked, according to the Google search.

They are opposed to same-sex marriage, and support Kim Davis.

[RobertEarl]

56. Hacked by Davis and DOMA folk?

I wouldn't be surprised.

I get why some, SOME, POC are upset with West. Obama is like a messiah to some and even on DU plain old posters like me have been smeared by Obama supporters for just mentioning we are not altogether pleased with Obama.

But really, isn't this just a weird way of attacking Bernie by smearing West?

[brush]

59. Apparently you don't get it

West is disliked in the AA community. He is the one being "attacked" as you call it.

Knowledgeable people are just wondering why the Sanders campaign would partner with someone so unpopular in critical part of the Dem constituency — an important block of voters that needs to be wooed away from Hillary.

Not a good choice.

[RobertEarl]

62. You have your opinions

And everyone has one.

I just showed you a link to an opposite opinion. Care to comment on that?

Maybe Bernie's staff have a different opinion than yours? By golly, I do believe they do! Isn't one of Bernie's high officials a member of BLM? Yes, I do believe so.

Having said that, I once again have come to my opinion that these West attacks are merely an attack on Bernie, you pretty much said so in your reply, questioning : "...why the Sanders campaign would partner ..."

All you have presented is a personal opinion to hoist yourself on your own petard.

Do try better with your next reply, okay?

[brush]

74. I don't have to do better

I know that West is highly unpopular in the AA community and this has been well known for years.

Post whatever link you want from that obscure group but West will cost Sanders a lot of black votes.

With all the prominent AA supporters of Sanders it's just unfortunate that West is now associated with his campaign.

[RobertEarl]

76. Cornel West is actually a cool guy

Cheese Sandwich says...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251591352

He recently campaigned with Bernie Sanders.

Cornel West is actually pretty cool. I agree with most of the stuff he says.

Dr. West used some insulting language toward Obama and alienated some people. Maybe he shouldn't have done that, but his actual work is more important.

And he does do a lot of important work. He was a leader and organizer against the stop and frisk policies in NYC when not many people were talking about that.

Also he helped start the Mass Incarceration Network which does a lot of grass roots organizing for police accountability. That is possibly the single most organized group out there doing the protest work in places like Ferguson and Baltimore. There are many groups but this is one important group.

He also was a prominent important voice during Occupy Wall Street protests, talking about the government policies of just helping banks instead of people.

He's there for us all on the right side of all these issues. It's unfortunate he said some nasty things about the president but it doesn't overshadow his other valuable work.

[kwassa]

61. no, it is simply showing a poor strategic choice by Bernie.

Obama has huge approval ratings in the black community, hovering around 90%, as I recall. Bringing in West is a very poor idea to appeal to these voters.

[RobertEarl]

63. See my reply above to brush?

Ditto to you.

[pnwmom]

65. Oh great. They'll all vote for Ben Carson then. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

159. In protest!

[haikugal]

164. So they're the 'wrong' black people then?

It just gets better...

[Scootaloo]

135. "The Sanders campaign must not have researched this."

Didn't you cite a Steve Harvey radio segment as the entire crux of your argument? I think you might want to reflect on that before talking about anyone's research.

[brush]

163. What? Why didn't the campaign know of West's baggage?

Just a cursory google search would have turned up West's vile characterizations of our Democratic President (I assume the campaign is seeking to woo Democratic votes, black Democratic votes).

In other words, they could have went with a prominent African American supporter who is not so disliked in the AA community.

It's not rocket science.

[pnwmom]

85. He's been railing against President Obama. That's what people are objecting to.

As if Obama can wave his magic wand and fix every problem in the country.

These people are going to be deeply disappointed if they ever manage to elect a President Sanders -- but I don't see how that will happen if Sanders continues to make decisions as insensitive as choosing West to be an ambassador to the AA community.

[MrMickeysMom]

16. You get the award...

…. for asking people to support people who are scorned by others… only to scorn people who are supported by others.

[Armstead]

20. You know what I'll betcha?

Any respected black leader or prominent figure who wants to publicly align themselves with Sanders, including those who you might find "acceptable," would most likely be welcome with open arms too.

[pnwmom]

33. I agree. So why hasn't Sanders linked up with one of those people instead of Cornel West?

[Armstead]

43. I'm sure his campaign is working on it

[stevil]

50. LOL

Let us know when the campaign kicks into hardsell mode.

[Bluenorthwest]

184. Speaking of linking up, this OP takes a swipe at West about the Inaugural at which Obama linked up

for a second time with hateful bigot Rick Warren after having done a forum at the man's church after holding rallies in the South with 'ex gay' evangelist hate preachers who called gay people vampires and child killer. Obama organized a tour and took some of those on the road with him. Linked the fuck up with them. Repeatedly. People who denigrated an entire minority group in the worst possible terms, not some politician. A minority group.
That's some context. Linked up with raging bigots. Context.

[uponit7771]

68. Why not link up with one that doesn't call black people racist tripe then?! Why link up with one ...

... that not only is a condescending asshole (West started this shit after he didn't get free inauguration tickets) but works at making sure people knows he hates Obama!?

[Armstead]

136. Fer Chrissake, West isn't my cup of tea either but what the fuck does it matter?

Really. Get a life. Worry about things that matter in the bigger scheme of things.

Do you highly endorse every person who has helped out in the campaign of every candidate you support?

What about the homophobic, anti choice pastors Obama aligned himself with? What about "Goddamn America" Jeramiah Wright?

Do you think Alan Greenspan was a wise and wonderful economic guru?

[uponit7771]

138. Bookmarked!! Why Doesn't it matter that we should associate with people who call others racist

... ass'd names for the sake of expressing condescension!?!!?!

Do you even know WHY West started his shit with Obama!?!

No, West isn't "right" about shit... he hates Obama and so his criticism isn't taken seriously by anyone who knows their saga.

Tavis Smiley is even worse!!! Obama didn't appear on his show so he becomes and asshole to him...

Small people say small stuff and now they have support with Sanders..

Wrong move Sanders

[Armstead]

141. oooooo....bookmarked

Did you read the statement that West is not my cup of tea?

But this is an unhealthy obsession among some people. Is every person who speaks in support of every candidate as ALL IMPORTANT as this one guy? I don't think so.

I suggest you save your emotional energy for things that will matter longer than 15 minutes from now.

[uponit7771]

143. Yeah, someone asking why does it matter that people shouldn't call other people racist tripe...

... should be bookmarked.

There's nothing that's says"I don't know you people" more than choosing a character like West to associate yourself with

[Armstead]

148. Is Jerimiah Wright a valid yardstick to judge President Obama?

No. And I assume you would agree that harping on that is unfair and misleading.

[uponit7771]

171. Did right spew racist hatred at people cause he didn't get a ticket to a seat he wanted?! false

... equivelancy

[virtualobserver]

154. your 'why" is gossip

[uponit7771]

172. No it's not, link inside "West says Obama ni66gerized the presidency"

Cornel West on Obama: "The First Black President Has Become The First Niggerized Black President"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/22/cornel_west_on_obama_the_first_black_president_has_become_the_first_niggerized_black_president.html

[virtualobserver]

174. sure it is....you've reduced it all to your reaction that one term

As a black person who has spent his life fighting the good fight,
he has a right to use that term, and he clearly explains his use of it.

[uponit7771]

176. Ummm, no... there are many other hateful statements West has said about Obama... this is not just

... one time thing were someone flew off the handle.

Its well established that West and Smiley have hated Obama for a long time.. not just a few words

[virtualobserver]

177. my point is that he has a right to judge Obama in a way that I don't....

have a right to do.

I have criticisms of President Obama as well, but my view is more like Michael Eric Dyson in that I acknowledge the total resistance that the President has experienced from the RW, plus I also recognize that there are things that Obama knows about what it going on that he can't reveal. Perhaps if I knew all that he knows about the reality of the world, I would have a different view of some of his actions.

That being said, I refuse to judge Dr. West....I have not lived his life.

[HereSince1628]

23. Why? Well West is a democratic socialist,

Just as we might expect a 3rd wayer to turn to 3rd wayers, expectation that Sanders would turn to a democratic socialist seems pretty reasonable.

[pnwmom]

34. Aren't there any black Democratic socialist leaders who wouldn't call the President

a "n***ized President"?

[Bonobo]

35. Curious, but do you have ANY idea what he even meant by the term?

Or is a knee-jerk reaction as far as you go?

[pnwmom]

37. He explained it. And that didn't make it okay, any more than the multitude

of other slurs he's called the President.

Here are some. I'm sure he would think he has good explanations for all of them.

But -- bottom line -- this is a man who has alienated himself from most of the AA community through his hate speech toward Obama. And Bernie is making a huge mistake trying to use him to score points with AA people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899166

[Bonobo]

38. The thing is it was a description of a socio-cultural phenomena that goes WAY beyond the POTUS.

It is deserving of discussion and reducing it to the "N" word is not really the same as having an honest conversation.

[pnwmom]

39. I added to the post while you were answering.

But the gist is this was just one example. He has used many slurs against the President. I'm sure you would try to justify them all, but it's not a good way to reach out to black African American voters.

[appalachiablue]

40. As a black person you know how two figures like Obama and West think about the matter?

[haikugal]

167. Do you get paid by the post or something...

You seem to think that saying the same thing, almost verbatim, over and over and over, will make a difference...to who, Google maybe? Yeah...you're on ignore.

[uponit7771]

69. I don't accept humans being called any type of racist tripe, why should we!?

[Bonobo]

71. Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.... nt

[uponit7771]

72. Dodging a questions regarding West racist tripe is what I see a lot of Sander supporters continue

[HereSince1628]

36. Perhaps West is to Bernie Sanders as Jerimiah Wright was to Obama

Perhaps nothing more, although depending upon where you sat in the political universe Jerimiah Wright could look pretty risky. Probably more risky than being a devotee of Saul Alinsky.

Strong minds with strong convictions can say pretty strong things.

[Bonobo]

49. I almost started an OP with that precise thing in mind! You are on to something for sure.

Also similar is the way that people are trying to attack the politician THROUGH them.

[Scootaloo]

51. It's Clinton Supporters going with the "Angry Black Man" canard. Again.

You can tell, 'cause they keep using this picture of him:


Even though he's been photographed countless times in his career, apparently this is the only photo of the man they can find.

[HereSince1628]

53. Maybe.

That sort of thing isn't hard to imagine.

It's all part of the process on DU. Feelings run strong.

[uponit7771]

70. Wright called black people petulant racist tripe!?!? Bad analogy

[pnwmom]

88. No, because Wright wasn't throwing slurs at the sitting African American President. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

185. Wright got dumped in favor of evangelicals who threw slurs at the LGBT community.

Of course that's fine with the faith community and the moderates. They are fine with denigration of LGBT.

[tularetom]

28. West earned my admiration when he got into a pissing contest with Larry Summers at Harvard

It was about ten years ago. He lost of course and wound up having to leave Harvard but I remember thinking anybody who stands up to that nauseating bag of shit is OK with me.

[Gothmog]

30. I have never been impressed with Cornel West

[Ron Green]

80. I have always been impressed with Cornel West.

So I guess you and I cancel each other out.

On this here message board.

[mhatrw]

54. On which issues that West and Obama differ do you prefer Obama's stance?

[840high]

57. good question.

[pnwmom]

64. So which issue would excuse all the name calling? In my mind, none.

We have a President who inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression, and managed to pull us out of the hole -- though the Rethug Congress wanted the economy to remain in the hole till 2012, enabling a Rethug to win that election.

We have a President who managed to put through the first expansion of Medicaid since the 1960's, and the first guarantees of health insurance coverage, and subsidies, EVER.

We have a President who ended two wars another President started, without getting us into another one.

We have a President who led the operation that killed bin Laden, even though some of his top advisors, including Joe Biden, advised against it, saying it was too risky.

We have a President who directed the Armed Forces to stop discriminating against gay troops, and helped pave the way toward same-sex marriage.

We have a President who has gotten two more progressive women confirmed to the Supreme Court.

We have a President who has accomplished all this in the face of a Congress that vowed from his first day of office to obstruct every piece of legislation he proposed. Never in history has a new President been elected without an initial "honeymoon" period with Congress. Until Obama. Until the first African American President. Tell me this is just a coincidence.

No, Obama hasn't done all things, been all things, achieved all things. But he doesn't deserve any of the slurs Cornel West has been slinging at him.

Bernie Sanders is making a serious mistake to associate himself with this Obama-hater.

[pnwmom]

60. This isn't about policy issues. It's about treating President Obama with the respect he deserves.

I don't think that disagreeing on policy issues gives West the right to call Obama the first n***ized President, a black mascot, a black puppet, etc.

I'm concerned that by linking up with West, Sanders is going to unnecessarily alienate many African Americans who are proud of President Obama and think he has been doing an excellent job under extremely challenging circumstances. Sanders isn't dissing Obama himself. He's not saying Obama has been a terrible President.

So why is Sanders choosing now to align himself with someone who thinks Obama HAS been a terrible President?

At this point it appears that Bernie Sanders could well be our nominee and I am deeply concerned that if he is our nominee, we could lose millions of black voters. Bernie needs to figure out how to appeal to more of them. It's not a good sign when he's linking up with someone who hates a President most AA people deeply care about.

And Cornel West has made no secret of how much he despises the President. This isn't debatable.

[840high]

75. You did not answer the question.

[pnwmom]

77. Because it's irrelevant. I explained to you that NO policy issue could excuse

the slurs that West has been directing at the President, who has actually been doing a good job under extremely difficult circumstances.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. I like Cornel West and I like President Obama.

Neither of them are running for anything next year, though.

[pnwmom]

97. Can't Bernie find many progressive black intellectual backers who haven't spent years

actively disparaging President Obama?

If he wants to reach out to black voters this isn't the way.

[Warren DeMontague]

104. Why does Hillary Clinton want to share a stage with someone who said this about Gay Marriage?

[pnwmom]

105. This isn't about Hillary. Why do you support Bernie Sanders handicapping

his chances in the general by associating with someone who hates Obama as much as any Rethug?

Bernie has a chance to be representing the party in the General. Don't you want him to be the strongest candidate possible? And how do you think having West at his side will help him with the Obama coalition?

[Warren DeMontague]

107. I think Sanders' judgment has proven to be jussssst fine, so far. His numbers reflect that.

just like the craptastic beltway conventional wisdom playbook other candidates- not, of course, that we're talking about any of them, of course - has proven to be disastrously out of touch.

So... I think I'll trust that Bernie knows what he's doing. So far he's done all right, defying some pretty serious "conventional wisdom" odds.

[pnwmom]

108. His numbers with the AA community don't reflect that. Unless you like 3% support in S.C. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

110. I think he'll be just fine.

He's doing a fuckton better than some people ever thought he would, isn't he?

[pnwmom]

112. He's doing much better than I ever thought he would.

Which is why I'm concerned. If he's the nominee, I want him to be as strong as possible. But I think an association with an Obama-hater will hurt him in the General. If enough black voters stay home the Rethug will win.

[Warren DeMontague]

114. That's how I feel about the almost indescribably lame campaign Hillary Clinton has been running.

I still give her pretty decent odds of being the nominee. Unfortunately she seems to be paying a lot of beltway "image consultants" and "messaging gurus" who are pulling documents on what they claim the voters want off of TRS-80 computers and dot matrix printers from 35 years ago.

What I believe she needs to do is something that is fundamentally against the encoding of her political DNA- namely, ditch the scripts, ditch the poll testing, stop trying so damn hard to be everything and nothing at the same time, for the LOVE OF FUCKING GOD stop with the meaningless lite-jazz bon mots of pablum like "I want to empower communities and families" and "the middle class needs a champion"....

get out there and just speak from the heart, and lay down a totally wonky series of actual concrete policy proposals. You know, legislative ones. And Executive ones. Because that's the President's job. On actual issues, the more controversial (at least in the minds of your blow-dried consultants, waving their arms frantically "nonono don't talk about THAT&quot the better.

She thought she could just coast on this one, she can't. This is not going to be a "phone it in", status quo election year (as Jeb Bush is finding out, too)

So, time to not only change the playbook, but to ditch it. And fire the coach.

[pnwmom]

123. I agree. In short,

she's too stiff. She's always basically been a goody-goody (the opposite of Bill in that way) -- the kind of student and professional who succeeded by working long, hard hours, trying to cross every t and dot every i.

Unlike many here, I think she's reliable and sincere and idealistic. And she would never take the dumb risks Bill took -- but he had other strengths.

She's trying too hard. It just isn't working. She's trying to please everyone and that isn't possible.

P.S. Regarding the email -- what everyone seems to have forgotten is that this all started with the Hatch Act. The Hatch act barred government employees from using government resources on political business. So members of earlier administrations started using separate accounts to make sure political stuff never ended up on .gov accounts. So this all started because of that. It wasn't an effort to hide things for Hillary; it was an effort not to run afoul of the Hatch act.

[uponit7771]

140. His numbers among people of color are abismal and after this they should stay that way

[Comrade Grumpy]

150. Hey, you forgot to use the phrase "racist tripe" in this post. You're slipping.

That would have made it a baker's dozen in this thread alone. Maybe next time.

Good effort at phrase of the day, though.

[jfern]

109. West still voted to re-elect Obama

I don't think he hates Obama.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. "This isn't about policy issues."

That's, like, Hillary's entire campaign slogan, isn't it?

[pnwmom]

89. Do you think Ronald Reagan got elected because voters care primarily about policy issues?

We lose when we forget that. Most voters don't sit with score sheets, choosing candidates based on the scores they get on the issues. They watch a few debates, hear a few news stories, and then vote with their guts. Or by the size of their bank accounts. And unfortunately, if they're suffering financially, they'll blame it on whichever party is controlling the Presidency -- even if all the problems have been caused by Congress.

So the reality is these decisions are very subjective and often not logical. It's up to the voter.

Many clearly like Bernie. But many also admire and appreciate Barack. And the ones who are proud of Barack won't appreciate Bernie's ties to a very vocal hater.

Do we really want to risk all those voters staying home in the General? I don't.

[Warren DeMontague]

93. Do you really want to risk the election by imagining that it is 1980 and not 2016?

Guess what. How does it go? "Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns."

And whatever playbook team Hillary is using- meaningless pablum, poll testing, "brand loyalty", carefully orchestrated spontaneity, etc... It, uh..... It ain't working.

pro tip for Hillary's overpriced beltway advisors- MILLENNIALS. Learn who they are.

And yeah, they care about policy.

[pnwmom]

98. This isn't about Hillary. I wouldn't care about Bernie shooting himself in the foot

with this dumb alliance EXCEPT that I now think it's possible Bernie could win the nomination -- and I think it's dumb for him to handicap himself with West as he goes into the general.

That's what Bravenak was trying to tell people when she got suspended. She was a strong Bernie supporter who was trying to explain how important it was for Bernie and his supporters to understand the strong connection most African American voters feel to President Obama. And that any candidate who "disses" the President (and choosing to align with West is a major diss) will not be viewed positively by the AA community.

[Warren DeMontague]

102. I think you're overthinking things.

Particularly if you think that voters don't care about actual issues but are going to get excessively hung up on who appeared on stage with a candidate, 14 months before the general.

The drama isn't nearly as important as some people think, the drama around the drama, even less so.

[pnwmom]

106. Why do you think West is going to go away before the General?

Why would Bernie hook up with him now only to drop him later? But you're right -- he should. If he drops him now he has plenty of time to recover.

[brush]

168. A rock and a hard place as to dropping West now

It's well documented that West doesn't play well with others if he feels rejection (perceived rejection in the Obama Inaugural event) so the Bernie campaign might get some serious return fire if they all of a sudden tell West "thanks but no thanks".

Not a good problem to have.

It wasn't a good choice to partner with West but what to do about it now?

[Scootaloo]

124. That doesn't make any sense. help me out here.

Argument one: you think that Cornell west is an albatross ("westbatross&quot around Sanders' neck, because - according to you - "the black community" loathes West.

Argument two: You think Sanders can win the primary. Apparently even while lugging around his Westbatross (I guess opening one event has long-term ramifications, huh?) You think he can get into the primary where...

Argument three: The Westbatross will suddenly cost Sanders the General election, even though it apparently didn't impact the primary (despite you know, that Westbatross-hating Black Community having a larger influence in the primary than the General.)

You don't look like someone who actually has a solid point here, pnwmom. Rather you look like someone who's trying to have it their way at every turn, even when logic can't support that.

My prediction? Cornell West isn't going to have any impact one way or the other, aside from giving some I-don't-support-Clinton-no-really-I'm-undecided-but-seriously-fuck-Bernie posters another thing to whine about for a brief moment in early September.

[pnwmom]

127. If Biden comes in that will further reduce Hillary's support and could end up

with Bernie having more votes than either one of them -- while they split the AA vote between them.

Then what happens when Bernie wins and goes to the General without having had AA support in the primary? He may have a lot of unenthusiastic AA voters trying to decide if they should vote for Cornel West's favorite candidate.

Or maybe for that very soft-spoken, self-deprecating black brain surgeon. He looks like a nice guy. So much nicer than that Donald Trump.



Alternate scenario: people have insisted to me that Bernie can win the primary without any significant AA vote, because so many unregistered voters will register just to vote for him, or people will crossover from other parties. (which is legal in many states.) Then what? How would he win the General without the whole Obama coalition?

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Is Cornel West on a ballot, somewhere?

[Bonobo]

99. Funny to see them playing the role of the Repubs in the 2008 Jeremiah Wright scenario.

Scary black man!!

Don't they even see the irony, Warren?

[Warren DeMontague]

103. I remember a lot of things about that election cycle, not the least of which, how Hillary ran her

campaign.

I was hoping for better, this time around. Haven't seen it.

[Armstead]

137. I think he's RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT according to some people here

Sanders is just his front man. Once elected, Sanders is going to appoint him co-President. So every little nuance about West is ever so important to obsess about.

[uponit7771]

139. Sanders disconnect with PoC is & this shows it greatly, why associate with a person who calls other

... people racist names because they feel slighted!?!?!

Wrong move Sanders

[LWolf]

142. Cornel West on Bernie Sanders, Michael Eric Dyson, Trans Rights, and B.B. King | #GRITtv

West addresses Dyson's comments in this interview, which I find instructive:

[TheFarS1de]

144. He makes some great points

Youtube is where I first ran into a lot of his interviews . He has a lot of good things to promote imo . Definitely worth looking up and watching .

[LWolf]

145. He tends to

resonate with me because he's a member of the American left, as am I.

He's certainly further left than the AA community as a whole.

[TheFarS1de]

146. I just find his analysis to be fairly sound

I first came across him in a Bill Maher short and dug a little deeper . And while he does come from a strong left religious perspective he still seems able to engage with a wide variety of people . There was even one clip where he went to (apologies for desecrating the thread) Bill O'reilly and just steam rolled him . Gave me a good chuckle .

[Capt. Obvious]

147. If only Obama hadn't sat him behind Aretha's hat

[RufusTFirefly]

152. The orchestrated talking points for smearing Bernie are transparent and pathetic

Desperate and sad.

[pnwmom]

155. Why is every criticism a smear? Does Bernie have to be the only perfect politician ever?

Couldn't it be possible that he's made a mistake associating himself with an Obama-hater in his effort to reach out to African Americans?

He is campaigning with West -- that's the truth, not a smear.
West has gone on record with how much he doesn't like Obama. That's the truth, not a smear.
So why would Bernie hook up with West, when there are plenty of other black progressives around?

[RufusTFirefly]

158. Haha! You don't find calling Dr. West an "Obama hater" to be a smear??

Come on. Give it up. Cornel West is not a politician. He is a brilliant and outspoken public intellectual, who rarely pulls his punches.

As long as we keep characterizing people who strongly disagree with a politician's policies as "haters," we will never make progress.

There are many, many thoughtful people who had high hopes for the Obama presidency and feel disappointed and disillusioned. Branding them as "haters" effectively avoids confronting the very real reasons for their displeasure.

But, alas, I suspect that's the point.

[pnwmom]

165. Do I think it's a smear to call him an Obama-hater when he's made his feelings

abundantly clear? No. This isn't just about policy disagreement. This is about despising him as a person.

Read the article in the OP and you'll see what I'm talking about.

During a private conversation, West asked how I escaped being dubbed an “Obama hater” when I was just as critical of the president as he was. I shared my three-part formula for discussing Obama before black audiences: Start with love for the man and pride in his epic achievement; focus on the unprecedented acrimony he faces as the nation’s first black executive; and target his missteps and failures. No matter how vehemently I disagree with Obama, I respect him as a man wrestling with an incredibly difficult opportunity to shape history. West looked into my eyes, sighed, and said: “Well, I guess that’s the difference between me and you. I don’t respect the brother at all.”

[RufusTFirefly]

169. We could play semantics from now until the cows come home

And we could also use guilt by association, too.

For example, I could mention Hillary's extremely troubling association with the Fellowship (aka "the Family&quot and use it as a reason to be very wary of her motives.

But frankly, I don't have to. Her votes as a Senator, her actions as Secretary of State, her tenure as "co-president" (which she uses when it's to her advantage and disavows when it isn't), and her public statements give me ample evidence to be very concerned and to oppose her candidacy.

I wish you well, but at this point I think we have goals that are fundamentally at odds.

[pnwmom]

181. Hopefully we do share one goal.

And that is to see the Democratic candidate, whoever that is, win the General election.

And I think Bernie's looking stronger every day. That's why I wish he and his followers wouldn't take his votes in the black community for granted -- or put them at risk by associating himself with someone who likes to attack Obama.

[frylock]

189. respect = love..

disrespect = hate?

[Jappleseed]

160. So you are saying that 1strongblackman and others should have been banned?

Since they did not put things in a nice way either? Or is it that only certain blacks are able to voice their opinions and others need to sit down and shut up?

[pnwmom]

166. 1StrongBlackMan would laugh in your face. He's never directed a slur at the President.

And this isn't about banning anyone from DU. This is about whether Bernie is making a mistake by aligning himself with a self-confessed Obama-hater in his effort to improve his standing in the AA community.

[Jappleseed]

170. So it's not about content or verbage.

It's just about who you are nasty to.

Must be nice to have no moral compass.

[pnwmom]

179. 1StrongBlackMan has never attacked people here by calling

them names like "n***ized." Or anything close to that.

He was alert-stalked, as you probably know.

[randome]

173. I disagree with Obama on at least one issue.

Cornel West is not a 'genius'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[bigtree]

175. Dyson has his own bloviating to account for

...funny to see a man who makes his living running his mouth putting down West for doing the exact same thing as a public advocate.

[Bluenorthwest]

183. Dyson is something of a gasbag and all of this is faith community bicker and backstab crap.

If Dyson wants to be a political pundit he needs to stop the Church Newsletter tendencies. Like most of the clergy, Dyson acts like he never read any of the red letters in his hand book.

[Aerows]

186. I'm just wondering when white people

will quit telling black people that they don't support the Democratic Party if they support Bernie Sanders.

I'm pretty sure black people as individuals can decide for themselves who they want to support, and they don't "need" a bunch of white people to tell them who they should support.

Then they turn around and accuse the Sanders campaign of being racist.

Are you serious?